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Yeah, I'm pretty sure that sending Rickon to Last Hearth was their quick and easy way of cutting that plot. Assuming that Wyman is cut, Davos is probably just gonna hang around Stannis all season.
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Dec 20, 2014 02:09
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Can't wait to
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Dec 20, 2014 02:14
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Lycus posted:Yeah, I'm pretty sure that sending Rickon to Last Hearth was their quick and easy way of cutting that plot. Assuming that Wyman is cut, Davos is probably just gonna hang around Stannis all season. He's gotta appear again at some point. I'm anxious to see Season 5 because with the amount of plots they cut I have no idea what's going to happen.
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Dec 20, 2014 03:12
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TOOT BOOT posted:He's gotta appear again at some point. I'm anxious to see Season 5 because with the amount of plots they cut I have no idea what's going to happen. With "he", do you mean Rickon? Because I can't imagine we will ever see him again. Maybe Osha will come back and tell everybody how Rickon got et by the Skagosians.
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Dec 20, 2014 13:38
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We're never going to see that actor again, but Rickon will be back
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Dec 20, 2014 13:40
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and Osha, because GRRM 
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Dec 20, 2014 13:40
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Professor Shark posted:Can't wait to This is basically the plot of Dune so if this is what you want to see go read Dune
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Dec 20, 2014 15:10
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Already read Dune, I want GoT version
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Dec 20, 2014 18:53
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DeepQantas posted:Hold on... Won't Jon Show just tell Stannis to go find Bran if he needs a Lord of Winterfell? Yep, I nearly threw the remote at the TV when Sam told him about Bran. I had to pause just so my friend could flip the gently caress out without missing anything. Lycus posted:They might just not do the Lord of Winterfell offer in the show. They didn't do the Robb legitimization scene, so I'm guessing GRRM told D&D that Jon being offered Winterfell was pointless because it wasn't going to lead anywhere. Most likely because the character is going to die and offer no further narrative purpose. In a a way I think that's probably why he got told about Bran, so he could go to the grave happily knowing his little brother was alright. That's kind of sweet. Professor Shark posted:Dumb magic, fighting skeletons are dumb magic Hey, that's my head. hellbastard fucked around with this message at 22:34 on Dec 20, 2014 |
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Dec 20, 2014 22:31
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hellbastard posted:Yep, I nearly threw the remote at the TV when Sam told him about Bran. They might also have Jon not mention Bran to Stannis for the same reason Jon ships Aemon away: Melisandre. The Starks were Kings in the North for a time, and that might be enough for Mel to think Bran might be worth burning.
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Dec 20, 2014 22:46
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hellbastard posted:They didn't do the Robb legitimization scene, so I'm guessing GRRM told D&D that Jon being offered Winterfell was pointless because it wasn't going to lead anywhere. Most likely because the character is going to die and offer no further narrative purpose. Jon's not going to die for christ's sake, not permanently anyhow. THE CENTRAL MYSTERY that was set up in the very first book is the identity of his mother. Killing him before revealing it makes that mystery pointless and while it would defy expectations, that's only because it would be bad writing.
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Dec 20, 2014 23:05
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I thought the central mystery was who killed Lord Arryn? That or who sent the assassin...
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Dec 20, 2014 23:09
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3Romeo posted:They might also have Jon not mention Bran to Stannis for the same reason Jon ships Aemon away: Melisandre. The Starks were Kings in the North for a time, and that might be enough for Mel to think Bran might be worth burning. If he does that, he better hope he can escape the North with his head attached on his shoulders because he would have to deal with the NW, the Boltons and the Stark loyalists. He won't burn Bran if he wants to get the North on his side.
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Dec 21, 2014 00:36
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DeepQantas posted:I thought the central mystery was who killed Lord Arryn? For one thing, we all know it was Lysa (and unlike the R+L=J thing this is confirmed in the text).
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Dec 21, 2014 01:08
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BillBear posted:If he does that, he better hope he can escape the North with his head attached on his shoulders because he would have to deal with the NW, the Boltons and the Stark loyalists. He won't burn Bran if he wants to get the North on his side. Dude. It's Stannis. That he's the rightful king, and should be followed, is all the reason he ever gives anyone.
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Dec 21, 2014 01:12
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We all know very well that the central mystery is: will Book 7 be published?
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Dec 21, 2014 01:14
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Lycus posted:We all know very well that the central mystery is: will Book 7 be published? 
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Dec 21, 2014 01:16
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"Were books 4 & 5 any good?" is also a rather central mystery.
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Dec 21, 2014 01:16
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Jon's not going to die or at least not stay dead. I'm extremely confident of that.
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Dec 21, 2014 01:37
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Mortabis posted:For one thing, we all know it was Lysa (and unlike the R+L=J thing this is confirmed in the text). Yeah but we didn't when Book 1 was the only thing to go on
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Dec 21, 2014 02:01
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3Romeo posted:Dude. It's Stannis. That he's the rightful king, and should be followed, is all the reason he ever gives anyone. That's old Stannis. New Stannis knows that he needs to save the kingdom to win the crown and not vice versa.
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Dec 21, 2014 02:03
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I don't see why Stannis would send people north of the Wall to look for a possibly alive Bran. Everyone would think he's dead, especially with that giant army of White Walkers moving south.
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Dec 21, 2014 03:10
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Mortabis posted:Jon's not going to die for christ's sake, not permanently anyhow. THE CENTRAL MYSTERY that was set up in the very first book is the identity of his mother. Killing him before revealing it makes that mystery pointless and while it would defy expectations, that's only because it would be bad writing. You remember when King Robert Baratheon laid on his deathbed and named his Hand Lord Eddard Stark (the main hero) "Lord Protector of the Realm" to rule the Seven Kingdoms until his son Joffrey were to come of age and take his rightful place as king, and Ned, instead of writing "Joffrey Baratheon" wrote "Rightful Heir" (or something along those lines) in a clever little insurance clause so that once he outed the three Lannister children as abominations born of treasonous incest with the intention of supplanting the Iron Throne, he could then name and legitimize Gendry Baratheon the eldest living trueblood heir? It was the awesome 'truth will out' narrative masterstroke promise that was full of hope and security that we were totally going to see unfold, but then the Queen put her bastard son in charge, tore up the decree without so much as even noticing the aforementioned masterstroke typo and then everything went to poo poo, as the land was plunged into chaos and rebellion. Our hero died, failing to secure his plan to crown Gendry, failing to join the Nightswatch, failing to tell anyone the truth about Jon's parents, failing to hook up with Stannis, and failing to stay in one piece and see the story through to the end. Are you seriously telling me the guy who grabbed us by the balls and dragged us across 800 or so pages of all of that intrigue encrusted bitter disappointment doesn't have the balls to kill a guy just because he never told us who his mother was? The only thing keeping Ned alive was a piece of paper he hand delivered to the throne into the hand of the toughest dude in the realm and the fact that he was holding onto an unraveling memory that we were slowly piecing together... The piece of paper keeping Jon alive is the hands of a pair of couriers who disappeared, written by a king who got brutally murdered at his uncle's wedding by the now Lord of Winterfell. I find it honestly surprising that anyone wouldn't even entertain the notion of Jon being brown bread.
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Dec 21, 2014 03:30
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Lycus posted:We all know very well that the central mystery is: will Book 7 be published? Possibly not. Meaning that Dance with Dragons is the final installment. Meaning that Jon is dead in the snow, The heir beyond the wall is safe in the hands of a coward who has an inbred girlfriend, Arya will become an assassin, Dany well get to be mommy again one day and has suffered the benefits of a hardcore detox bowel evacuation, Long live King Tommen, Long Live Lord Roose, Jamie got cured of his sisterfucking malady, Ramsay gets to be a real boy, Reek doesn't, and Patchface probably learned the true meaning of Life Day.
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Dec 21, 2014 03:39
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hellbastard posted:You remember when King Robert Baratheon laid on his deathbed and named his Hand Lord Eddard Stark (the main hero) "Lord Protector of the Realm" to rule the Seven Kingdoms until his son Joffrey were to come of age and take his rightful place as king, and Ned, instead of writing "Joffrey Baratheon" wrote "Rightful Heir" (or something along those lines) in a clever little insurance clause so that once he outed the three Lannister children as abominations born of treasonous incest with the intention of supplanting the Iron Throne, he could then name and legitimize Gendry Baratheon the eldest living trueblood heir? It was the awesome 'truth will out' narrative masterstroke promise that was full of hope and security that we were totally going to see unfold, but then the Queen put her bastard son in charge, tore up the decree without so much as even noticing the aforementioned masterstroke typo and then everything went to poo poo, as the land was plunged into chaos and rebellion. The payoff to that also happened in the same book though. Like yeah you could bring up the Red Wedding but Robb had hosed himself well before that happened (in A Storm of Swords but also A Clash of Kings with the Greyjoys) and was just waiting to die.
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Dec 21, 2014 03:42
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hellbastard posted:You remember when King Robert Baratheon laid on his deathbed and named his Hand Lord Eddard Stark (the main hero) "Lord Protector of the Realm" to rule the Seven Kingdoms until his son Joffrey were to come of age and take his rightful place as king, and Ned, instead of writing "Joffrey Baratheon" wrote "Rightful Heir" (or something along those lines) in a clever little insurance clause so that once he outed the three Lannister children as abominations born of treasonous incest with the intention of supplanting the Iron Throne, he could then name and legitimize Gendry Baratheon the eldest living trueblood heir? It was the awesome 'truth will out' narrative masterstroke promise that was full of hope and security that we were totally going to see unfold, but then the Queen put her bastard son in charge, tore up the decree without so much as even noticing the aforementioned masterstroke typo and then everything went to poo poo, as the land was plunged into chaos and rebellion. I don't know where you're getting the idea Ned wanted to crown an unacknowledged bastard rather than Stannis, Robert's rightful heir.
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Dec 21, 2014 03:47
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The show made Gendry into a much more important character, so I can see the confusion that some people may have had. There are a lot of shots of him in contexts of secret identities and forbidden love between commoner and noble, while the letter to Stannis is barely mentioned.
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Dec 21, 2014 05:07
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despite the fact that grrm killed the main character of GoT, there are 3 main characters of asoiaf. Jon, Tyrion and Dany will all be alive until the very end. Grrms ability to kill "main" characters is overrated.
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Dec 21, 2014 05:21
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Never ever forget the serious possibility that GRRM is gonna piss all over his original story planning and do something completely different out of sheer spite because the internet figured it all out.
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Dec 21, 2014 05:57
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TOOT BOOT posted:I don't know where you're getting the idea Ned wanted to crown an unacknowledged bastard rather than Stannis, Robert's rightful heir. You are completely right. I was thinking back to when I first read the book about ten years ago, and Stannis hadn't really made an appearance, so at the time I was thinking Gendry was his endgame (or at the very least it would just work out that way because I hadn't previously read such a mean spirited piece of work before and I guess that was just a little more fairy tale). Once Stannis showed up I kind of started backing him pretty quickly. When I went through my head back to how that felt while reading it I sort of reverted to how I was thinking at the time. Well spotted. But ignoring that, you get the idea. hellbastard fucked around with this message at 07:02 on Dec 21, 2014 |
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Dec 21, 2014 06:58
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Shimrra Jamaane posted:Never ever forget the serious possibility that GRRM is gonna piss all over his original story planning and do something completely different out of sheer spite because the internet figured it all out. GRRM doesn't really seem spiteful except when people bug him about the next book coming out. And besides, by your own logic him doing something different out of spite would itself be figured out by the internet, therefore forcing him to do something else instead (or not changing it in sheer spite).
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Dec 21, 2014 07:06
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computer parts posted:The payoff to that also happened in the same book though. It's funny, because Patchface said something, and I thought when he married that Jeyne Westerling girl that if I were Lord Frey I wouldn't take that poo poo lightly. He seemed to embrace death with his youthful flippancy, but it didn't really make the red wedding any less shocking. Same with Oberyn milking Clegane's death, but I was still pretty shocked by how south that went. The guy has a way of heralding doom and injecting you with blind optimism at the same time. It's pretty impressive really. It's almost like a nasty depressing satire of fantasy. Or like any of those Lobo versus [insert superhero] comics, because Lobo just kills everyone; the superhero, the side kick, the butler, the next generation guy, and a dog he saw on the way there. The payoff to Jon dying could be that Melisandre senses the Targaryan blood in the snow, burns him, and it turns Stannis into a super saiyan. computer parts posted:GRRM doesn't really seem spiteful except when people bug him about the next book coming out. spiteception.
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Dec 21, 2014 07:17
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Shimrra Jamaane posted:Never ever forget the serious possibility that GRRM is gonna piss all over his original story planning and do something completely different out of sheer spite because the internet figured it all out. He said he's not going to do this. He seems ambivalent about the fact that people figured out who Jon Snow's parents are.
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Dec 21, 2014 07:51
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TOOT BOOT posted:He said he's not going to do this. He seems ambivalent about the fact that people figured out who Jon Snow's parents are. Has he confirmed that R+L=J is correct? From what I remember, he said that a fan theory he read on the internet in the 90s was correct, and that he was not going to change it just because someone guessed it. Everybody assumes it is R+L=J but GRRM has not done much to confirm that theory, most of the evidence is in the first book. Another popular theory early on was that Tyrion was the bastard of King Aerys. That seemed unlikely, but the release of TWoIaF has made it more likely by specifically mentioning that Joanna Lannister was called to Kings Landing the year before Tyrion was born.
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Dec 21, 2014 08:11
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ClearAirTurbulence posted:Has he confirmed that R+L=J is correct? From what I remember, he said that a fan theory he read on the internet in the 90s was correct, and that he was not going to change it just because someone guessed it. Everybody assumes it is R+L=J but GRRM has not done much to confirm that theory, most of the evidence is in the first book. Another popular theory early on was that Tyrion was the bastard of King Aerys. That seemed unlikely, but the release of TWoIaF has made it more likely by specifically mentioning that Joanna Lannister was called to Kings Landing the year before Tyrion was born. He asked the creators of the show who Jon's parents were and they answered correctly. Tyrion being a bastard ruins all of his characterization with Tywin.
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Dec 21, 2014 08:30
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TOOT BOOT posted:He said he's not going to do this. He seems ambivalent about the fact that people figured out who Jon Snow's parents are. Because it turns out that Jon Snow is not the main character or center of the universe and even if he knew who his parents were it doesn't really change anything and it isn't that important to begin with and he's never gonna DBZ into Azor Ahai and liberate the world with his magic sword hoooo hey!
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Dec 21, 2014 09:52
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Hakkesshu posted:Because it turns out that Jon Snow is not the main character or center of the universe and even if he knew who his parents were it doesn't really change anything and it isn't that important to begin with and he's never gonna DBZ into Azor Ahai and liberate the world with his magic sword hoooo hey! Part of me would like the first chapter of the Winds of Winter to be Howland Reed rocking up to the wall: "Hey, [puff,cough], sorry I've been busy, [cough, puff] but someone just brought me this sheet of paper decreeing that Jon Snow, shall now be recognized as Jon Stark. His brother, King Robb, drafted it up before he was killed, so Jon's meant to be the King of the North, but never mind that, because I've got some amazing news, I've been sitting on for a while... you ready? Jon's real dad was Rhaegar Targaryen. So he's actually kind of the King of the Seven Kingdoms... huh.... bet you weren't expecting that, you grim pack of rapists, eh? So who's that on the floor... oh... I see... I'll eh... I'll show myself out."
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Dec 21, 2014 13:09
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This is such an odd discussion, Jon might not be the hero of the series and his human body might not be resurrected (although I think it will be) but in the very least the fact that he is not completely dead as long as Ghost is alive has been thoroughly foreshadowed, god knows what parts he'll play as a ghost inside Ghost but we know for certain that he's not really gone yet.
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Dec 21, 2014 13:12
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emanresu tnuocca posted:This is such an odd discussion, Jon might not be the hero of the series and his human body might not be resurrected (although I think it will be) but in the very least the fact that he is not completely dead as long as Ghost is alive has been thoroughly foreshadowed, god knows what parts he'll play as a ghost inside Ghost but we know for certain that he's not really gone yet. He'll head down to the river lands, team up with Nymeria to storm The Twins and tear out Walder Freys bastardy liver.
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Dec 21, 2014 13:48
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Hakkesshu posted:Because it turns out that Jon Snow is not the main character or center of the universe and even if he knew who his parents were it doesn't really change anything and it isn't that important to begin with and he's never gonna DBZ into Azor Ahai and liberate the world with his magic sword hoooo hey! He is the ice to Dany's fire, though. Like, their position in Dance is almost the same: Reluctant ruler of a place in shambles, army of "free people" they can't really utilize in a meaningful way, pet monsters, and both have the most boring chapters this side of Bran.
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Dec 21, 2014 14:24
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