|
the japanese pioneered the tech for building the shikansen tunnels, where they used it to transport waste rock back out of the tunnel for disposal. beyond that I don't think there's any large-scale implementations out there (at least not when I studied the tech a few years ago). there's been a lot of proposed projects and feasability studies done, including freight and solid waste transport systems for new york and shanghai, as well as a proposed ~100mi freight corridor in texas to move containers from ships to an inland intermodal facility. i bet it will happen at some point because it makes too much sense, but AFAICT it's still largely in the R&D stages and will take a long time to gain momentum. major changes to critical infrastructure technology take a long rear end time to mature and roll out.
|
#
?
Dec 19, 2014 21:56
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 21, 2024 20:10 |
|
|
doesn't denver airport use pneumatic tubes to move luggage [and it didn't work right for like a year]?
|
|
#
?
Dec 19, 2014 22:08
|
|
|
Farmer Crack-rear end posted:or just build a railroad. unlike a railroad you could in theory build one of these in an existing right-of-way corridor, like in the middle of an interstate highway. you cut a trench, lay a bunch of pipe (lol), and fill it in. then all your truck traffic disappears underground. the killer application however is short-range transport in major metropolitan areas. a city like shanghai has to get rid of 10,000-20,000 tons of solid waste per day, which requires a huge fleet of trucks to transport to various collection facilities, is facing a huge surge in traffic, has terrible air quality already, and lacks the ability to build out much more roadway. so you build a smaller scale version (like 1m^2 cross-sectional area) using tunnel-boring machines. for waste you design the network so you have a bunch of pickup locations that can do outputs to various landfills, recycling centers, etc and all of a sudden you have a sewer for solid waste. or you set up the system to bring consumer goods to and from facilities outside city limits, cutting down on your in-city commercial freight traffic. really ambitious versions (one was assessed for NYC) get a little crazier, and describe a full-scale block-by-block network of such systems, which would be a huge undertaking but under certain circumstances actually a reasonable investment. You do run into regional implementation difficulties - shanghai is built on like a hundred meters of silty clay, while new york is built on hard-rear end bedrock and has a shitload of underground infrastructure already - but the concept is pretty sound.
|
|
#
?
Dec 19, 2014 22:13
|
|
|
Spime Wrangler posted:evacuated tube transport for people is dumb for many reasons paris had almost 300 miles of pneumatic tubes that they used for mail delivery until 1984
|
|
#
?
Dec 19, 2014 22:16
|
|
|
qirex posted:doesn't denver airport use pneumatic tubes to move luggage [and it didn't work right for like a year]? it had a lot of problems out of the gate (  ), yeah but it is a pleasant airport now that runs well and does not have major problems.well, as long as you don't consider an underground compound full of lizard people a problem
|
|
#
?
Dec 19, 2014 22:17
|
|
|
Jonny 290 posted:as long as you don't consider an underground compound full of lizard people a problem
|
|
#
?
Dec 19, 2014 22:18
|
|
|
Jonny 290 posted:an underground compound full of lizard people but enough about yospos
|
|
#
?
Dec 19, 2014 22:18
|
|
|
yeah I think DIA was supposed to have a pneumatic system in places but I think their failure was of a more systemic project-management variety. edit: i guess they still do use pneumatic systems for a lot of stuff, but not baggage. Spime Wrangler fucked around with this message at 22:25 on Dec 19, 2014 |
|
#
?
Dec 19, 2014 22:22
|
|
|
Spime Wrangler posted:
doesn't songdo in south korea use something like this
|
|
#
?
Dec 19, 2014 22:24
|
|
|
Building a high-speed railway is a no-go because you have to deal with 10,000 NIMBY pieces of poo poo along the route (tbf I wouldn't want trains blasting past my house at 300mph all day long either), or said pieces of poo poo want a stop right outside their house, please (but not anywhere else for the next 200 miles, i have places to be) and generally being as FYGM as possible like, London Underground's Metropolitan line terminates, what, 30 miles outside London proper at Amersham and Chesham. by a startling co-incidence the senior executives of whatever London Underground was called back in those days happened to live in Amersham and Chesham. but it's not like they were going to suffer the indignity of using it or anything, my high school was right next to the Amersham terminus and yeah maybe it'd be convenient for taking you to some vaguely interesting London suburb 10 miles down the line (a complete list of interesting London suburbs: ) but if you wanted to commute to Baker Street you could just take the main line train from the exact same station and it'd get you there 4x as fast so honestly i have no idea what that was all about. some sort of failed mass transit experiment probably.
|
|
#
?
Dec 19, 2014 22:26
|
|
|
50km from amersham takes you all the way to kidbrooke, are you sure that's what you mean when you said london proper
|
|
#
?
Dec 19, 2014 22:29
|
|
|
be honest are you guys just playing mornington crescent
|
|
#
?
Dec 19, 2014 22:31
|
|
|
Metrication posted:doesn't songdo in south korea use something like this sounds like it. looks like it was announced only a couple years ago, after i moved on. i studied the systems on a research posting in china back around 2010, while shanghai was hosting the world expo. they had a (buggy, iirc) demonstration system in place and wanted to explore options for a city-wide version. it really makes the most sense to do the first generation in places like songdo: big planned communities with strong central planning and organization, since it's not cheap and can be difficult to retrofit to existing systems. it'll be interesting to see how well it works in the long run.
|
|
#
?
Dec 19, 2014 22:33
|
|
|
Metrication posted:50km from amersham takes you all the way to kidbrooke, are you sure that's what you mean when you said london proper haha nice goofy made up place names
|
|
#
?
Dec 19, 2014 22:35
|
|
|
Spime Wrangler posted:evacuated tube transport for people is dumb for many reasons chicago's underground freight tunnel system worked great and that just used simple electric carts and standard tracks 
|
|
#
?
Dec 19, 2014 22:38
|
|
|
mods, please change my name to Elon's Musk. thanks.
|
|
#
?
Dec 19, 2014 22:40
|
|
|
highspeed passenger rail or a hyperloop or whatever is also DOA in america in particular because it's going to have to be self-sufficient and look at how well that's working out for amtrak and the airline industry. with better freight systems you're straight up cutting "waste" (time, money, fuel, labor) out of existing money-making commercial processes, which is much more copacetic with late stage capitalism. HSR is awesome and good when done right but that will never happen in america, and elon will probably have to just resort to taking sub-orbital flights LA -> SFO on his fleet of reusable rockets.
|
|
#
?
Dec 19, 2014 22:40
|
|
|
Spime Wrangler posted:highspeed passenger rail or a hyperloop or whatever is also DOA in america in particular because it's going to have to be self-sufficient and look at how well that's working out for amtrak and the airline industry. with better freight systems you're straight up cutting "waste" (time, money, fuel, labor) out of existing money-making commercial processes, which is much more copacetic with late stage capitalism. yeah. it makes me mad when people say poo poo like "oh the light rail can't even support itself without TAXES". like, do fuckin' highways support themselves without taxes? no. why are they an exception. gently caress you. gently caress all of you.
|
|
#
?
Dec 19, 2014 22:41
|
|
|
japan is building a maglev line (chuo shinkansen) and trains will run at 500km/h it is going to be extremely sick but also very expensive because they are insisting on building 60% of it underground
|
|
#
?
Dec 19, 2014 22:45
|
|
|
Nintendo Kid posted:chicago's underground freight tunnel system worked great and that just used simple electric carts and standard tracks pneumatics would probably be higher performance. smaller tubes, more energy efficient, less required track maintenance, more complex switching equipment. but yeah, there are lots of good examples of functionally similar systems in the past. it's a good idea and we should do it again. get cars and trucks off the road and use busses, trains, subways, and underground freight systems. decommission a bunch of roads and make more bike paths, parks, and walkable neighborhoods.
|
|
#
?
Dec 19, 2014 22:47
|
|
|
Elder Postsman posted:yeah. it makes me mad when people say poo poo like "oh the light rail can't even support itself without TAXES". like, do fuckin' highways support themselves without taxes? no. why are they an exception. gently caress you. gently caress all of you. and those are going to fall the gently caress apart too because we refuse to fund their maintenance
|
|
#
?
Dec 19, 2014 22:48
|
|
|
Citizen Tayne posted:haha nice goofy made up place names there's probably an Amersham, TX with 15 residents and 37 teeth between them
|
|
#
?
Dec 19, 2014 23:07
|
|
|
Spime Wrangler posted:and those are going to fall the gently caress apart too because we refuse to fund their maintenance the rich don't drive, their drivers do duh
|
|
#
?
Dec 19, 2014 23:42
|
|
|
Metrication posted:japan is building a maglev line (chuo shinkansen) and trains will run at 500km/h it is going to be extremely sick but also very expensive because they are insisting on building 60% of it underground wanna see one of those smack a deer.
|
|
#
?
Dec 20, 2014 00:24
|
|
|
|
|
#
?
Dec 20, 2014 00:30
|
|
|
Shifty Pony posted:wanna see one of those smack a deer. u know what the imp in doom looks like when u kill it
|
|
#
?
Dec 20, 2014 02:56
|
|
|
Spime Wrangler posted:unlike a railroad you could in theory build one of these in an existing right-of-way corridor, like in the middle of an interstate highway. you cut a trench, lay a bunch of pipe (lol), and fill it in. then all your truck traffic disappears underground. this all sounds like great infrastructure to make generic though, where there's a standard capsule size and gauge and addressing and switching blocks and then we just apply networking technology to physical packet routing and we can just have streams of 1TEU containers not just flowing by ship rail and truck but under our feet and entirely automated great infrastructure for our inevitable evolution into a hive world
|
|
#
?
Dec 20, 2014 03:17
|
|
|
i rode the shanghai maglev. it was pretty ownage. 400kph is no joke, especially when passing 3 feet from a train going 400kph in the other direction the joke is that the line ends in the middle of nowhere and is basically just a really fast leg of the subway system, which you have to take anyways to get from the airport (one end of the maglev) into town (like 10km past where the maglev ends) it likewise ends 20km short of reaching the proposed station at other airport and 200km short of the intended destination of hangzhou, which is instead served by standard highspeed rail (that still does 350-400+ kph).
|
|
#
?
Dec 20, 2014 03:19
|
|
|
eschaton posted:this all sounds like great infrastructure to make generic though, where there's a standard capsule size and gauge and addressing and switching blocks and then we just apply networking technology to physical packet routing and we can just have streams of 1TEU containers not just flowing by ship rail and truck but under our feet and entirely automated I'm the physical packet loss
|
|
#
?
Dec 20, 2014 03:21
|
|
|
Also if you put paper clips on the floor of the train, they will stand up on end as it leaves the station
|
|
#
?
Dec 20, 2014 03:22
|
|
|
eschaton posted:this all sounds like great infrastructure to make generic though, where there's a standard capsule size and gauge and addressing and switching blocks and then we just apply networking technology to physical packet routing and we can just have streams of 1TEU containers not just flowing by ship rail and truck but under our feet and entirely automated exactly the idea is to standardize on ISO containers for major high-volume links (including ships, trains, trucks, and tubes) and smaller pallet-sized containers for lower-volume local links hive world here we come
|
|
#
?
Dec 20, 2014 03:25
|
|
|
I wish I had taken the maglev when I was in Shanghai because it looked hella sweet
|
|
#
?
Dec 20, 2014 04:27
|
|
|
Spime Wrangler posted:i rode the shanghai maglev. it was pretty ownage. 400kph is no joke, especially when passing 3 feet from a train going 400kph in the other direction It's pretty cool how we're up our own asses about how great we are in the USA while stuff like this is being done elsewhere. (Over $500b of that $1.1t appropriations bill to keep the government running was for the military. lol!)
|
|
#
?
Dec 20, 2014 04:37
|
|
|
the U.S. military is our largest welfare program
|
|
#
?
Dec 20, 2014 04:42
|
|
|
Citizen Tayne posted:It's pretty cool how we're up our own asses about how great we are in the USA while stuff like this is being done elsewhere. so other countries build it, and then we invade and take it? sounds good to me
|
|
#
?
Dec 20, 2014 04:45
|
|
|
EVGA Longoria posted:so other countries build it, and then we invade and take it? sounds good to me holy poo poo piss i want that veridian dynamics gangtag
|
|
#
?
Dec 20, 2014 05:12
|
|
|
doh wrong thread. trains are great huh? boo cars!
|
|
#
?
Dec 20, 2014 05:19
|
|
|
how the gently caress did this become train chat again what the gently caress you goofs
|
|
#
?
Dec 20, 2014 05:24
|
|
Failed Sega Accessory Ahoy!
|
Bloody posted:holy poo poo piss i want that veridian dynamics gangtag lol, I bet you do
|
|
#
?
Dec 20, 2014 05:26
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 21, 2024 20:10 |
|
|
dehumanize and face to trainchat
|
|
#
?
Dec 20, 2014 05:27
|
|