Auspol December: All I want for Christmas is a new government.

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Debate & Discussion > Auspol December: All I want for Christmas is a new government.

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GoldStandardConure: Jun 11, 2010; I have to kill fast
and mayflies too slow; Pillbug

Endman posted:

The boffins can have everything of me when I'm dead aside from my skull, which I will add as a proviso to the sole beneficiary of all my stuff. That way someone will always own my creepy loving skull. I hope they keep it on their mantlepiece or on a spike in the front garden or something.

Donate your skull to Davis Auruni so it can glare in judgement at him for all eternity.

# ? Dec 19, 2014 13:28

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# ? Jun 11, 2024 04:38

Coucho Marx: Mar 2, 2009; kick back and relax

Splode posted:

I think I read that itresulted in more people smoking cheaper brands, and having much less brand loyalty, but this is from a half remembered article? post? NFI from ages ago, so I'm probably completely wrong.

I don't know the article either, but I work in a petrol station and was there well before the changeover. Since plain packaging there's been way more customers asking which ones are the cheapest, especially the younger ones. Most of the well-known brands like Winfield and Peter Jackson still sell, but new lines just rot on the shelf (unless it undercuts all the rest in price like Bond Street). So yeah, older customers will still buy whatever they did before, new ones get whatever's cheap (or what their parents smoked I guess).

IslamoNazi posted:

You do realise it should be turned into a chalice right?

Not so fast!

_{(any excuse to post that)}

T-1000 posted:

There's precedent for donating your skull to a theatre company on the proviso you get the role of Yorick in a production of Hamlet.

They did that with a David Tennant production, it didn't really work because the audience cheered and applauded when the skull came out which kind of ruined the scene

GoldStandardConure posted:

Donate your skull to Davis Auruni so it can glare in judgement at him for all eternity.

He does like to keep it nearby all the time, huh?

Seriously people, watch that if you haven't already, it's great.

Well, the people aren't.

# ? Dec 19, 2014 15:13

dr_rat: Jun 4, 2001

Coucho Marx posted:

They did that with a David Tennant production, it didn't really work because the audience cheered and applauded when the skull came out which kind of ruined the scene

Having people burst into applause every time they see your skull sounds awesome. Totally donating skull to nearest Shakespearean actor looking types after death.

Can you donate your heart to an acting group doing the works of Poe? I guess using it to help save someones life is probably the more responsible thing to do... but still.

# ? Dec 19, 2014 15:24

Seagull: Oct 9, 2012; give me a chip

GoldStandardConure posted:

Donate your skull to Davis Auruni so it can glare in judgement at him for all eternity.

THE SKULL

# ? Dec 19, 2014 15:47

Anidav: Feb 25, 2010; ahhh fuck its the rats again

I'll donate my skull, can someone find me the nearest skull bank?

# ? Dec 19, 2014 16:01

Nibbles!: Jun 26, 2008; TRUMP TRUMP TRUMP

make australia great again as well please

Regarding organ donation I've always thought the best way to go about it is have it mandatory and you register to opt out.

It would take awhile but then donation would be the norm and I would think families less likely to refuse, as it would just be what happens.

Maybe some sort of guarantee register too to prevent your kin from overriding.

# ? Dec 19, 2014 16:34

Mightypeon: Oct 10, 2013; Putin apologist- assume all uncited claims are from Russia Today or directly from FSB.

key phrases: Poor plucky little Russia, Spheres of influence, The West is Worse, they was asking for it.

Hi Aus goons,

can anyone give me a rundown of Fraser?
Because he wrote this:
http://nationalinterest.org/feature/america-australias-dangerous-ally-11858

(Seriously too long to post it all, but it amounts to "gently caress you Uncle Sam").

# ? Dec 19, 2014 17:02

Spacman: Mar 18, 2014

Hmmmmmmmm

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2014-12-19/palmer-media-adviser-detained-over-alleged-kidnap/5978632

quote:

Clive Palmer's media adviser and confidant Andrew Crook has been granted bail after being charged over the alleged kidnapping of a National Australia Bank executive on an Indonesian island.

Crook and former senior Queensland detective Mick Featherstone were arrested during raids in Brisbane and on the Gold Coast on Friday morning.

They were charged with attempting to pervert the course of justice, retaliation against a witness, attempted fraud and obstructing the course of justice in a case involving the alleged unlawful detention and coercion of the NAB executive.

Appearing in the Brisbane Magistrates Court on Friday afternoon, Crook was ordered to surrender his passport, not to approach an international airport and to have no contact with his co-accused.

Featherstone, a Gold Coast-based private detective at the centre of a year-long probe by Queensland's Crime and Corruption Commission into money laundering and police corruption, was also granted bail on the same conditions.

Both men sat impassive in the dock as the bail application was heard.

Queensland Police Taskforce Maxima chief Superintendent Mick Niland said Clive Palmer was "in a sense a victim" of the alleged plot because his name had been used to lend it credibility.

But he said it was "utter nonsense" to claim, as Mr Palmer did this morning, that the investigation was in some way politically motivated.

"This is a serious criminal investigation launched by Queensland Police Taskforce Maxima," Superintendent Niland said.

He said a third man, understood by the ABC to be multi-millionaire property developer and former Sydney Swans player Tony Smith, would return from Indonesia to face charges in Australia.

The ABC understands Queensland Police will allege Crook and Mr Smith were involved in a January 2013 attempt to coerce a witness in a $70 million civil case involving Mr Smith to recant his evidence, using subterfuge and threats of violence.

Police have been investigating claims Crook and Mr Smith lured the witness, an employee of the National Australia Bank, to Singapore and on to Batam Island in Indonesia using the pretence of a possible job offer from Clive Palmer.

It will be alleged that once on Batam Island, the witness was strip-searched, threatened and forced to make a statement recanting his evidence.

Section 12 of the Queensland Criminal Code allows for prosecutions for offences overseas where they would be considered crimes in Australia.
Clive Palmer calls raids a 'black day for Australia'

Crook and Featherstone were held during morning raids at addresses in the Brisbane suburb of New Farm and Upper Coomera on the Gold Coast.

Crook was then taken to his Brisbane CBD office where police carried out further searches.

Officers also raided another Brisbane premises and seized documents.

Mr Palmer is not thought to have had any involvement in, or knowledge of the plot.

The federal MP arrived at Crook's office during the raid and said he knew nothing of the allegations.

But he suggested the police actions could be politically motivated.

"I don't know very much other than to say that Crook Media and Andrew Crook are responsible for all our media in Australia, was responsible for the Palmer United Party winning the last federal election," he said.

"And of course, the LNP, the Liberal Government - Campbell Newman and Tony Abbott - don't like the opposition we've been giving them in the Senate, they don't like that sort of thing.

"I think this is a black day for Australia if any of this, which I don't know anything about at the moment, has anything to do with political freedom in this country.

"I think it's very important that there's freedom of speech in Australia, that there's diversity of opinion. I'm personally very concerned because Mr Crook is our media adviser and if they wanted to attack me or our party they can do that."

Brisbane-based Crook has been Mr Palmer's media adviser and spokesman since before the tycoon entered politics.

Since becoming a federal MP, Mr Palmer has retained the services of Crook and his PR firm, Crook Media, to handle his political media relations.

Mr Smith made his fortune in the tourism industry after his AFL career.

Since 2009 he has been embroiled in legal action against the National Australia Bank, claiming the bank caused him to lose $70 million at the height of the global financial crisis.

He began building the biggest mansion on the Gold Coast, on Hedges Avenue at Mermaid Beach, but was later forced to sell it unfinished and at a loss.

Mr Smith then shifted his businesses to Bali, where he has developed luxury holiday accommodation. He also has interests in New Zealand and has re-invested in Gold Coast real estate in the past couple of years.

It is understood detectives from the Queensland police anti-bikie taskforce Maxima stumbled on evidence of the alleged January 2013 plot earlier this year while investigating Featherstone and his links to bikies, to former and serving police officers and his involvement with online betting syndicates on the Gold Coast.

Superintendent Niland said the three men "all know each other".

The ABC revealed in September that Featherstone was the focus of a joint Maxima and Crime and Corruption Commission probe described as a "priority" investigation by CCC chairman Ken Levy.

In a parallel, four-month investigation, the ABC uncovered evidence Featherstone had for almost 10 years been involved in setting up and operating online betting syndicates alleged to have defrauded thousands of people across Australia of millions of dollars.

Superintendent Niland told reporters the ABC story had caused further information to come forward and triggered the investigation of the three men by Taskforce Maxima.

Queensland's Office of Fair Trading (QOFT) this week renewed Featherstone's private investigator's licence, which had expired in October. It also renewed the licence held by his PI firm, Phoenix Global.

The office of Queensland Attorney-General Jarrod Bleijie, which oversees the QOFT, told the ABC it had conducted the required criminal history checks and could find no reason to deny Featherstone or his firm a licence.

But a spokesman for the QOFT today said that in the light of the charges it was now required to issue Featherstone with a "show cause" notice as to why his PI licence should not be suspended pending the outcome of court proceedings.

Spacman fucked around with this message at 19:23 on Dec 19, 2014

# ? Dec 19, 2014 19:15

ewe2: Jul 1, 2009

Mightypeon posted:

Hi Aus goons,

can anyone give me a rundown of Fraser?
Because he wrote this:
http://nationalinterest.org/feature/america-australias-dangerous-ally-11858

(Seriously too long to post it all, but it amounts to "gently caress you Uncle Sam").

Prefatory note: When we say liberal in Australia we usually mean someone of the Liberal Party and not really a liberal in the US sense. It gets a bit confusing because although Australian conservatism can have liberal elements, it's mostly conservative. Fraser further confused the issue by claiming the Liberal Party was no longer a liberal party but a conservative party when he resigned in 2009, but it's more true to say that it's now a radical neoliberal party than a conservative one.

Wow. That's rather something he wrote there. Fraser was, and is, an old-style Australian conservative, the sense that our Liberal Party used to espouse. He was independently wealthy and very ambitious and rose quickly in the post-Menzies era of the late 1960's and ended up being the main opponent to the ALP's Gough Whitlam in the 1970's, famously getting the then Governor General to dump the Whitlam government. He headed the caretaker government afterwards and fought a very successful election to a full term but, like Whitlam, he was at the mercy of international economics and did not take his opportunities, preferring to concentrate on foreign policy as a means of avoiding any substantial domestic program. Quite simply, his ambition didn't go much further than getting to be PM and being a statesman.

Since then his reputation has oddly morphed from being possibly the most hated politician of his day to almost a progressive hero given his steadfast refusal to go along with the Liberal Party's devolution into radical neoliberalism. Check the wiki page on him for details, there's a lot more on this.

He's always been known for his relatively progressive foreign policy, but this statement is going far beyond the norm for a conservative. It amounts to repudiating a core Australian conservative value: sucking up to a major power. The ALP might once have been expected to make similar noises but coming from Fraser it's a bit of a bombshell. He will be feverishly ignored by the Party, but I expect a few angry squeaks from right-wing columnists. Sadly, I don't expect too much from the progressive side because they believe in sucking up as much as the other side does.

ewe2 fucked around with this message at 20:27 on Dec 19, 2014

# ? Dec 19, 2014 19:34

Dilkington: Aug 6, 2010; "Al mio amore Dilkington, Gennaro"

How do Australians define "progressive foreign policy?"

How many of you know who Hugh White is?

# ? Dec 19, 2014 20:29

rudatron: May 31, 2011; by Fluffdaddy

Mightypeon posted:

Hi Aus goons,

can anyone give me a rundown of Fraser?
Because he wrote this:
http://nationalinterest.org/feature/america-australias-dangerous-ally-11858

(Seriously too long to post it all, but it amounts to "gently caress you Uncle Sam").

Honestly it's very surprising. You have to remember that America hated the gently caress out of Gough Whitlam, and Fraser was the guy who kicked Whitlam out, with the equivalent of a constitutional loophole. He's someone who helped push Washington's interests in Australia, so for him to then turn and push disengagement is pretty significant. That's not necessarily because a lot of people follow him, but because of the demographic he represents.

edit: note particularly the stress, very early on, of 'conflicting values' between America and Australia. That's not something you'd see in more traditional justifications for disengagement, which is that the American people are okay but the government is bad and they should get around to fixing that blah blah blah - no, this is a very conservative rejection, "they are not us". It's also...kind of true, I guess? But I don't know if that's something that will persist or diminish over time.

rudatron fucked around with this message at 20:44 on Dec 19, 2014

# ? Dec 19, 2014 20:37

NTRabbit: Aug 15, 2012; i wear this armour to protect myself from the histrionics of hysterical women

bitches

Dilkington posted:

How do Australians define "progressive foreign policy?"

Looking beyond the USA and the UK is a good start

# ? Dec 19, 2014 20:39

CATTASTIC: Mar 31, 2010; ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Dilkington posted:

Hugh White?

The sole question in Scott Morrison's Legitimate Asylum Seeker test?

CATTASTIC fucked around with this message at 20:57 on Dec 19, 2014

# ? Dec 19, 2014 20:41

Fruity Gordo: Aug 5, 2013; Neurotic, Impotent Rage!

Mightypeon posted:

Hi Aus goons,

can anyone give me a rundown of Fraser?
Because he wrote this:
http://nationalinterest.org/feature/america-australias-dangerous-ally-11858

(Seriously too long to post it all, but it amounts to "gently caress you Uncle Sam").

He's a narcissistic Cold War Tory who got elected and ran a government whose raison d'etre was getting reelected while loving people over as much as they would tolerate, and thusly set the tone for Hawke. So, already a capital offense. He apparently regrets the shithouse trajectory his government put us on and so in the early 2000s he started suggesting that maybe it was uncool for us to put refugees in concentration camps/ Because he used to be a Prime Minister who ran concentration camps which were less poo poo, he has been regarded as a hero for nearly 20 years for bravely trying to establish a personal legacy of not being an enormous piece of poo poo. The Liberal party don't mention him anymore, and even the Labor party have stopped inviting him to things. Our domestic political situation is so dire that refugee advocacy organisations have to use an ex-Prime Minister who sanctioned the abuse of refugees during his term to speak out against what we're doing right now. And Fraser is happily riding that wave, writing 10,000 word synthetic essays based on whichever undergrad geopolitics reader had the biggest cheque sticking out of it.

# ? Dec 19, 2014 20:46

Fruity Gordo: Aug 5, 2013; Neurotic, Impotent Rage!

rudatron posted:

Honestly it's very surprising. You have to remember that America hated the gently caress out of Gough Whitlam, and Fraser was the guy who kicked Whitlam out, with the equivalent of a constitutional loophole. He's someone who helped push Washington's interests in Australia, so for him to then turn and push disengagement is pretty significant. That's not necessarily because a lot of people follow him, but because of the demographic he represents.

edit: note particularly the stress, very early on, of 'conflicting values' between America and Australia. That's not something you'd see in more traditional justifications for disengagement, which is that the American people are okay but the government is bad and they should get around to fixing that blah blah blah - no, this is a very conservative rejection, "they are not us". It's also...kind of true, I guess? But I don't know if that's something that will persist or diminish over time.

He has no friends left in conservative politics. He sniffed the wind 20 years ago, looked at his bank balance and took a risk because he rightly guessed that he would be vilified in death if he didnt come to jesus

# ? Dec 19, 2014 20:49

Mightypeon: Oct 10, 2013; Putin apologist- assume all uncited claims are from Russia Today or directly from FSB.

key phrases: Poor plucky little Russia, Spheres of influence, The West is Worse, they was asking for it.

ewe2 posted:

Prefatory note: When we say liberal in Australia we usually mean someone of the Liberal Party and not really a liberal in the US sense. It gets a bit confusing because although Australian conservatism can have liberal elements, it's mostly conservative. Fraser further confused the issue by claiming the Liberal Party was no longer a liberal party but a conservative party when he resigned in 2009, but it's more true to say that it's now a radical neoliberal party than a conservative one.

Wow. That's rather something he wrote there. Fraser was, and is, an old-style Australian conservative, the sense that our Liberal Party used to espouse. He was independently wealthy and very ambitious and rose quickly in the post-Menzies era of the late 1960's and ended up being the main opponent to the ALP's Gough Whitlam in the 1970's, famously getting the then Governor General to dump the Whitlam government. He headed the caretaker government afterwards and fought a very successful election to a full term but, like Whitlam, he was at the mercy of international economics and did not take his opportunities, preferring to concentrate on foreign policy as a means of avoiding any substantial domestic program. Quite simply, his ambition didn't go much further than getting to be PM and being a statesman.

Since then his reputation has oddly morphed from being possibly the most hated politician of his day to almost a progressive hero given his steadfast refusal to go along with the Liberal Party's devolution into radical neoliberalism. Check the wiki page on him for details, there's a lot more on this.

He's always been known for his relatively progressive foreign policy, but this statement is going far beyond the norm for a conservative. It amounts to repudiating a core Australian conservative value: sucking up to a major power. The ALP might once have been expected to make similar noises but coming from Fraser it's a bit of a bombshell. He will be feverishly ignored by the Party, but I expect a few angry squeaks from right-wing columnists. Sadly, I don't expect too much from the progressive side because they believe in sucking up as much as the other side does.

So, he has some influence, but does not really represent major political force right now is that broadly speaking correct?

I was surprised because that piece was arguably more anti American then something by Gerhard Schr�der (German ex chancellor, now works for Gazprom, is pretty mad at US politics and propably not only for selfish reasons).

# ? Dec 19, 2014 20:58

Fruity Gordo: Aug 5, 2013; Neurotic, Impotent Rage!

I'm shocked you guys think this is a bombshell, it's Fraser.txt to me. All he did in that article is synthesise the current mainstream humanitarian consensus with some good old-fashioned yellow peril poo poo. Like. That has been his schtick for at least eight years bc I made this exact criticism in 2007 before I voted for the first time.

# ? Dec 19, 2014 21:01

CATTASTIC: Mar 31, 2010; ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

I am also shocked.

# ? Dec 19, 2014 21:06

Fruity Gordo: Aug 5, 2013; Neurotic, Impotent Rage!

I'm shocked AND appalled. So there.

# ? Dec 19, 2014 21:08

Fruity Gordo: Aug 5, 2013; Neurotic, Impotent Rage!

Palmersaurus posted:

The sole question in Scott Morrison's Legitimate Asylum Seeker test?

# ? Dec 19, 2014 21:09

ewe2: Jul 1, 2009

Mightypeon posted:

So, he has some influence, but does not really represent major political force right now is that broadly speaking correct?

I was surprised because that piece was arguably more anti American then something by Gerhard Schr�der (German ex chancellor, now works for Gazprom, is pretty mad at US politics and propably not only for selfish reasons).

He's repudiated by both major parties, yes. It seems he wrote a book about all this, Dangerous Allies, which was released back in March or April this year. An interesting interview with lefty Robert Manne does some justice to Fraser's evolution on this matter. I had to google this; it only appeared in a non-Murdoch newspaper. Wiki didn't even mention it.

# ? Dec 19, 2014 22:00

Ler: Mar 23, 2005; I believe...

Dilkington posted:

How do Australians define "progressive foreign policy?"

The short answer is they don't.

From an Australian-centric point of view some would include:

- Recognition of West Papua and the process of their sovereignty
- The dismantling of the ANZUS treaty and the rejection of United States hegemony on Australian soil and ending Australia's complicity in said hegemony
- The removal of free trade agreements that are both a detriment to the sovereignty of Australians, the sovereignty of the Australian legal process as well as those that are the detriment to the economic interests of agribusiness and the environment (re: Monsanto, CSG, et al)
- Increasing the ability of asylum seekers to re-establish their lives in Australia
- Re-establish ties with Timor Leste from a substantially different approach to resource allcoation
- Recognition of Palestine and conversely recognition of Israeli human rights abuses and the pushing of bringing said crimes to justice

Ler fucked around with this message at 23:57 on Dec 19, 2014

# ? Dec 19, 2014 23:55

Doctor Spaceman: Jul 6, 2010; "Everyone's entitled to their point of view, but that's seriously a weird one."

Dilkington posted:

How many of you know who Hugh White is?

Read his SMH columns on China. Don't really know much about his background beyond him being a policy wonk.

Mightypeon posted:

So, he has some influence, but does not really represent major political force right now is that broadly speaking correct?

Despite being a former Liberal PM his views aren't really in line with the current Coalition government, no. I don't know how much influence he has either.

# ? Dec 20, 2014 00:02

Cartoon: Jun 20, 2008; poop

BlitzkriegOfColour posted:

Statisticians: we weren't smart enough to be real mathematicians.

Quantum Physics: based on statistics and populated by complete dopes.

# ? Dec 20, 2014 00:42

Dilkington: Aug 6, 2010; "Al mio amore Dilkington, Gennaro"

Doctor Spaceman posted:

Read his SMH columns on China. Don't really know much about his background beyond him being a policy wonk.
Despite being a former Liberal PM his views aren't really in line with the current Coalition government, no. I don't know how much influence he has either.

I've also read that column.

1985-1991 Senior Adviser to Defence Minister and Prime Minister; 1995-2000 Deputy Secretary for Strategy, Department of Defence; 2001-2004 Director of the Australian Strategic Policy Institute.

When he speaks in the UK or the US he's introduced as Australia's foremost strategic thinker. I was curious as to whether Australians would agree with this, or if they would give that title to someone else..

# ? Dec 20, 2014 00:49

PaletteSwappedNinja: Jun 3, 2008; One Nation, Under God.

Yeah, Alexander Downer.

# ? Dec 20, 2014 01:41

Gough Suppressant: Nov 14, 2008

Um, Australia's foremost strategic thinker is clearly Paul Roos.

# ? Dec 20, 2014 01:43

CATTASTIC: Mar 31, 2010; ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

The_Downer_Months.mp4

e. hey look
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jxAEll95Sgw

CATTASTIC fucked around with this message at 03:06 on Dec 20, 2014

# ? Dec 20, 2014 01:43

Centusin: Aug 5, 2009

Dilkington posted:

I've also read that column.

1985-1991 Senior Adviser to Defence Minister and Prime Minister; 1995-2000 Deputy Secretary for Strategy, Department of Defence; 2001-2004 Director of the Australian Strategic Policy Institute.

When he speaks in the UK or the US he's introduced as Australia's foremost strategic thinker. I was curious as to whether Australians would agree with this, or if they would give that title to someone else..

Hugh White comes up a lot in my international relations units so I'm guessing most of my lecturers would agree with that.

# ? Dec 20, 2014 03:14

AbortRetryFail: Jan 17, 2007; No more Mr. Nice Gaius

NSW:

# ? Dec 20, 2014 03:49

Tirade: Jul 17, 2001; Cybertron must act decisively to prevent and oppose acts of genocide and violations of international robot rights law and to bring perpetrators before the Decepticon Justice Division; Pillbug

Scylo posted:

Hugh White comes up a lot in my international relations units so I'm guessing most of my lecturers would agree with that.

He's definitely the highest profile, so by that measure, sure. But that's more due to the fact that he's the only person saying anything different to the sea of retired army chiefs, war nerd journos and academics that write the same thing over and over about Australia's strategic interests and geopolitical options.

# ? Dec 20, 2014 04:05

hooman: Oct 11, 2007; This guy seems legit.; Fun Shoe

AbortRetryFail posted:

NSW:

I think you mean :nws:

There needs to be a "Not Auspol Safe" icon other than :itwaspoo:

# ? Dec 20, 2014 04:30

Zenithe: Feb 25, 2013; _{Ask not to whom the Anidavatar belongs; it belongs to thee.}

To be fair, there is a woman wearing a head covering on a bus and not being abused

:unsmith:

# ? Dec 20, 2014 04:39

Xerxes17: Feb 17, 2011

Donate your skull to Games Workshop guys :skeltal:

# ? Dec 20, 2014 04:48

Griffball: Sep 6, 2010

AbortRetryFail posted:

NSW:

Am I missing something here or is it just a bus?

# ? Dec 20, 2014 04:59

Lizard Combatant: Sep 29, 2010; I have some notes.

Griffball posted:

Am I missing something here or is it just a bus?

Both

# ? Dec 20, 2014 05:00

Cartoon: Jun 20, 2008; poop

Griffball posted:

Am I missing something here or is it just a bus?

Xmas decorations on public transport have been a trigger issue in the past (CC only I think).

Also the only head covering I can see is a dude with a baseball cap and based on personal experience they should get the poo poo beaten out of them. :bahgawd:

# ? Dec 20, 2014 05:01

superkinetic: Jul 22, 2007; WHEN?

Fruity Gordo posted:

Apparently the rates of infection are growing again for gay men so the entire thing is really fluid and I'm dumb for not checking my facts.

In addition to the above, keep in mind that the blood donation rules about men who have sex with men isn't solely about HIV either; at least some of the reasoning (to my knowledge) is based on the fact that they're something of a "sentinel" population for STIs (higher rates of several are seen throughout), and that by screening those potential donors out, you're theoretically mitigating the damage that would be done by a new HIV-like disease coming into the picture. When the HIV outbreak in the 1980's arrived, it had catastrophic effects in the blood supply

I can't tell you how much evidence (in terms of empirical data) there is for the decision (because there likely isn't much), but it is a highly emotive subject, and it's highly likely some of the people making decisions about screening and blood supply protection were there when HIV was flowing undetected into the blood supply. I can tell you that the senior echelons of the haematology department at my hospital (a major Sydney hospital) still bear the emotional scars, having had large numbers of their haemophiliac patients die because they contracted HIV/AIDS secondary to their need for frequent blood products (some of which are produced by combining donations from hundreds of different donors). Something like a quarter of haemophiliacs in this country received contaminated blood products in the early-mid 1980s.

I mean, that's a disaster for those patients, and not something you'll ever forget if you were the doctor who gave it to them. Those doctors are department heads and senior consultants now. Many of them are, to this day, saddled with a nagging guilt (justly or not) about what happened to their patients. Nobody wants to see that happen again, and Australia consequently has one of the strictest (and cleanest) blood supplies in the world.

Like I said to start with though, that's in addition to the epidemiologic evidence you've already posted about, and the numerous other (much more evidence based) factors at play. What I wanted to point out is that there's probably a considerable "mood" in the field that pulls towards being safe and conservative, rather than increasing the supply, beyond just the (fairly reasonable) evidence.

We do have problems with supply though. A serious multi-trauma or unexpected requirement for a massive transfusion can certainly put pressure on a hospital blood bank, even in a large trauma centre that keeps a (relatively) generous stock on hand. I've got textbooks that say things like "request an immediate type and cross match for 6 units of blood" for certain emergencies, and if I did that in real life, I'm fairly sure a haematologist or blood bank technician would be immediately on the phone asking WTF I thought I was doing with their precious blood.

# ? Dec 20, 2014 05:26

ewe2: Jul 1, 2009

superkinetic posted:

blood stuff

All that fits well with my anecdotal experience as a blood donor. Going by your early posts, I'm guessing the public sector Green/Left doctor fraternity wouldn't be well pleased with the government's proposed new Medicare scheme? It does look like a new front in pitting the private against the public systems. I'm aware that the junior staff are already under pressure from other policies, what are they projecting as to the future should this pass?

# ? Dec 20, 2014 05:38

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# ? Jun 11, 2024 04:38

You Am I: May 20, 2001; Me @ your poasting

AbortRetryFail posted:

NSW:

Resize that image FFS

# ? Dec 20, 2014 05:46

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Debate & Discussion > Auspol December: All I want for Christmas is a new government.

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