China Economy Megathread

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My Imaginary GF: Jul 17, 2005; by R. Guyovich

Bloodnose posted:

Macau is a Special Administrative Region that operates on a different legal and political system from the mainland. You've been having trouble understanding this with regard to Hong Kong too. I don't know how to make it any clearer for you. There are no Communist Party members in the Hong Kong or Macau governments. There is no Communist Party in either territory's political system. They don't purge in those territories. It doesn't happen.

Right, and there are no Russian troops in Belarus or Ukraine. There are sepratists unaccountable to Moscow. Perhaps it was the Ukranians who knocked down MH17.

Who do the bosses of Hong Kong and Macau answer to? I don't know how to make it more obvious to you.

# ? Dec 14, 2014 05:00

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# ? May 16, 2024 00:13

Deep State of Mind: Jul 30, 2006; "It was a busy day. I do not remember it all. In the morning, I thought I had lost my wallet. Then we went swimming and either overthrew a government or started a pro-American radio station. I can't really remember."; Fun Shoe

They still operate on different systems. Beijing doesn't purge SAR officials. When Tung hosed up in 2003 he was quickly retired for health reasons and given a seat on the CPPCC. For whatever dumb reason he's even making his voice heard on Hong Kong politics today and just launched a stupid think tank.

You really think they're going to suddenly arrest Fernando Chui and put him into reeducation through labor or something?

# ? Dec 14, 2014 05:21

My Imaginary GF: Jul 17, 2005; by R. Guyovich

Bloodnose posted:

They still operate on different systems. Beijing doesn't purge SAR officials. When Tung hosed up in 2003 he was quickly retired for health reasons and given a seat on the CPPCC. For whatever dumb reason he's even making his voice heard on Hong Kong politics today and just launched a stupid think tank.

You really think they're going to suddenly arrest Fernando Chui and put him into reeducation through labor or something?

A purge doesn't mean kill in all cases. It means remove any and all access to levers of power while also "giving the individual time to spend with their family." Sometimes in China, the purge takes the form of violence.

Tung didn't decide when it was his time to go, someone else did. Being the final say on making that call is power; Macau and Hong Kong have no discernable power to oppose Beijing when Beijing puts its foot down.

The common elements of all purges are policymakers putting their foot down in order to consolidate their power. China is currently undergoing a purge. This purge has some predictability, and is likely to intensify as Beijing loses power over the periphary.

My Imaginary GF fucked around with this message at 05:28 on Dec 14, 2014

# ? Dec 14, 2014 05:26

JumpinJackFlash: Nov 15, 2001

Ceciltron posted:

Well, China IS the street purge capital of the world. The Hong Kongers get very upset and vocal at people purging in the streets.

India has them beat by long shot. They even have a special caste of turd wranglers.

# ? Dec 14, 2014 05:45

Deep State of Mind: Jul 30, 2006; "It was a busy day. I do not remember it all. In the morning, I thought I had lost my wallet. Then we went swimming and either overthrew a government or started a pro-American radio station. I can't really remember."; Fun Shoe

So any time a higher organ of power alters a lower one, it's a purge? Is it a purge when a US President changes up his cabinet? Or when Hong Kong's CE takes someone off the ExCo? That's a really broad definition of purge that makes it sound like a cooler way of saying "fired."

# ? Dec 14, 2014 05:49

My Imaginary GF: Jul 17, 2005; by R. Guyovich

Bloodnose posted:

So any time a higher organ of power alters a lower one, it's a purge? Is it a purge when a US President changes up his cabinet? Or when Hong Kong's CE takes someone off the ExCo? That's a really broad definition of purge that makes it sound like a cooler way of saying "fired."

Well, do the ones at the very bottom of the receiving end for the organ of power get sent to have their organs sold off in America? I don't think so.

# ? Dec 14, 2014 06:07

FrozenVent: May 1, 2009; The Boeing 737-200QC is the undisputed workhorse of the skies.

My Imaginary GF posted:

There is an ongoing purge, no matter what PRC deigns to call it. I'm expecting it to hit Macau soon.

Shipping? Its bad for shipping, actually, because China has over-produced international shipping capacity. What that means is that you have to subsidize the carriers to take your cargo. Lower prices mean lower margins for some shippers, slightly higher for others, and require increases in subsidies to shippers in order to take your goods. The more you produce that needs to be exported, the more you need to subsidize carriers to take your products to international market. Its quite a contradictory system: the more you ship, the higher your operating costs.

The Chinese government built too many tankers, the poo poo coming out of china gets shipped in container ships.

The tanker and bulk markets are cratered, it will take years for the rates to recover. It's very cheap to move stuff right now for the people doing the shipping, it's not profitable for the carrier. Nobody is subsidizing poo poo (except in the case of Chinese carriers but then China subsidizes everything). Carriers are underbidding one another to try to recoup some of their investment, that's all it is.

That being said, very little cargo coming out of China gets moved on Chinese flag ships. And the cost of shipping is a tiny tiny part of the cost if goods on the shelf.

Cheap bunker's going to be great for carrier's margins though.

# ? Dec 14, 2014 06:17

Arglebargle III: Feb 21, 2006

My Imaginary GF posted:

Well, do the ones at the very bottom of the receiving end for the organ of power get sent to have their organs sold off in America? I don't think so.

Do you even read the poo poo you post?

# ? Dec 14, 2014 07:34

Daduzi: Nov 22, 2005; You can't hide from the Grim Reaper. Especially when he's got a gun.

My Imaginary GF posted:

Well, do the ones at the very bottom of the receiving end for the organ of power get sent to have their organs sold off in America? I don't think so.

I'd love to read these accounts of Chinese officials having their organs harvested. Any links?

# ? Dec 14, 2014 09:03

My Imaginary GF: Jul 17, 2005; by R. Guyovich

Daduzi posted:

I'd love to read these accounts of Chinese officials having their organs harvested. Any links?

Xu Caihou, I hope, is having his plucked out now.

Li Qihua is what happens when you've got liquid assets and don't want your organs harvested. Make no mistake, when you're part of a network being purged, the lowest individuals will lose out the most. What do you think happens during a politically motivated purge in a state with capital flight? You liquidate the assets of the princes, and get the highest return from your serfs as possible.

# ? Dec 14, 2014 09:15

Obdicut: May 15, 2012; "What election?"

My Imaginary GF posted:

Because you're losing money on every product you export, and exporting more products won't increase your revenue. Lower oil prices increase the pressure to produce more in order to maintain the facade that your enterprise isn't a pyramid scheme.

This makes no sense--lower oil prices lower the cost of every product they export. Your previous attempt at saying lower oil prices were bad for China by talking about infrastructure was a slightly more believable fantasy, but still pants-on-head stupid.

This is a good time to remind you that your shtick is lame and nobody likes you.

# ? Dec 14, 2014 14:14

paragon1: Nov 22, 2010; FULL COMMUNISM NOW

You guys know he's a ridiculous gimmick right? You probably do, but I wanted to make sure.

# ? Dec 15, 2014 02:08

My Imaginary GF: Jul 17, 2005; by R. Guyovich

Obdicut posted:

This makes no sense--lower oil prices lower the cost of every product they export. Your previous attempt at saying lower oil prices were bad for China by talking about infrastructure was a slightly more believable fantasy, but still pants-on-head stupid.

This is a good time to remind you that your shtick is lame and nobody likes you.

You can't consider the economic impact of low oil prices without understanding national economic systems. The structure of the Chinese economy is too corrupt, with too little accurate paperwork, to be able to determine precisely whether, and how much, lower input prices will result in fluctuation in margin rates.

Without knowing the specific political orders of provinces and municipalities containing excise and port facilities, here's what I can tell you given the known structures of political order in China.

It may assist if I lay out the assumptions I'm working from, in order for them to be corrected if I am mistake. It is my understanding that, in PRC, individuals involved in business and individuals holding state positions are involved with a patronage network. Almost every office is bought, sold, and traded. These offices include, but are not limited to, state revenue generating positions, social service positions, and communist party positions.

In this way, state revenue generating offices resemble the well-documented practices of tax farming. Individuals able to bring in the largest take for their network, while reducing the take from their friends, are able to advance and obtain more prominent status within the party. One of the offices where this is at work is in customs and excise: those in charge of generating tarriff revenue have purchased their position, often using unofficial loans accessing subprime credit in order to finance their purchase.

High oil price means high margins on oil operarions. High margins support wealth accumulation through skimming. Over a decade of skimming, the margins of pure profit to be made off energy are reduced in order to finance political rise and sustain ambition. With high energy prices and moderate to low opportunity for excise skimming, individuals have to access a greater amount of credit in order to maintain their position or advance; if they fail, they fall into credit default and lose their job through "anti-corruption drives."

Due to the over-leveraged positions of excise office-holders and party officials, a reduction in the rate of growth in energy demand begets a price decrease and a fall in unofficial revenue from a reduction in marginal ability to skim. Therefore, the individual is less able to continue passing the red envelope up the chain, and the local boss either has reduced income and risks purge or leans more heavily upon others under their patronage to increase their skimming.

Unless this is paired with a multi-party system and the ability to peacefully transition power, what results is a population which feels a greater pinch at every level as the bosses attempt to continue to meet their debt servicing obligations. Translation: The guy who controls the ports for energy likely also controls the ports for cargo due to inherent synergistic potential of these sectors.

When that boss loses the ability to continue skimming from energy imports, he attempts to maintain it by increasing the take from his other operations. The costs to import and export cargo rises because the take from energy falls. While producers may experience a cost decrease from a decrease in energy inputs, their operational profitability is not increased because all other layers through which they acquire and refine their inputs have an increase in cost to offset the decline in energy skimming. On agregate, lower energy prices increase production costs and decrease export competitiveness while also generating labor unrest.

That's why I say that lower energy prices are bad for Chinese manufacturing.

# ? Dec 15, 2014 02:37

Deep State of Mind: Jul 30, 2006; "It was a busy day. I do not remember it all. In the morning, I thought I had lost my wallet. Then we went swimming and either overthrew a government or started a pro-American radio station. I can't really remember."; Fun Shoe

paragon1 posted:

You guys know he's a ridiculous gimmick right? You probably do, but I wanted to make sure.

I don't know that. What's the gimmick? It seems like he's just an excitable person with bad opinions.

# ? Dec 15, 2014 06:49

Arglebargle III: Feb 21, 2006

Lol "corrupt officials would like to control synergistic posts, therefore they do" and "corrupt officials would like to smooth their incomes, therefore they do. " you'll go far in micro econ.

# ? Dec 15, 2014 10:03

Obdicut: May 15, 2012; "What election?"

paragon1 posted:

You guys know he's a ridiculous gimmick right? You probably do, but I wanted to make sure.

Well, that's what I mean by "This is a good time to remind you that your schtick is lame and nobody likes you."

I wonder if he thinks most people actually even bother to read his loopy posts.

# ? Dec 15, 2014 11:44

whatever7: Jul 26, 2001; by LITERALLY AN ADMIN

I spent the entire weekend hitting GAP stores to take advantage of their endless 10 off coupons and didn't check SA at all. I see I didn't miss anything.

# ? Dec 15, 2014 13:31

Ceciltron: Jan 11, 2007; Text BEEP to 43527 for the dancing robot!; Pillbug

whatever7 posted:

I spent the entire weekend hitting GAP stores to take advantage of their endless 10 off coupons and didn't check SA at all. I see I didn't miss anything.

We didn't miss your crass materialism, either.

# ? Dec 15, 2014 21:26

whatever7: Jul 26, 2001; by LITERALLY AN ADMIN

Ceciltron posted:

We didn't miss your crass materialism, either.

I was buying GAP tacky underwears and socks for 99 cents or free, I am bleeding Corporate America, and helping out Chinese underpaid labors!

# ? Dec 15, 2014 22:07

namaste friends: Sep 18, 2004; by Smythe

http://www.ft.com/intl/cms/s/0/b569efb6-8736-11e4-8a51-00144feabdc0.html?siteedition=intl#axzz3MKAUjEbI

quote:

China�s economy was 3.4 per cent bigger last year than previously reported, government statisticians said on Friday, bringing the world�s second-largest economy a step closer to overtaking the US.
The revision adds Rmb1.92tn ($308bn) to China�s gross domestic product in 2013, an amount greater than Singapore�s entire economic output.

But the results of the country�s third economic census may do little to allay longstanding scepticism about China�s official data, as the statistics bureau chose not to apply the System of National Accounts, an international framework for compiling economic data.
The SNA, endorsed by the UN in 2008 and since adopted by the US, the EU and South Korea, would probably have led to a larger upward revision by including research and development spending as fixed-asset investment and adopting new techniques to capture intangible activities.

�If they had chosen the new methodology, the final revised numbers would have been significantly higher,� said Bao Beibei, a researcher with the Rhodium Group, a New York-based economic policy consultancy that is conducting research on the reliability of China�s national accounts data. �The NBS revisions today raise more questions than answers.�

The World Bank said that Chinese GDP surpassed the US this year in purchasing-power parity terms, which accounts for varying price levels in different countries.

But the government disputed the finding, with analysts saying China preferred not to be viewed as a rich country.

In terms of market exchange rates, which are viewed as a better measure of a country�s relative weight in the global economy, economists expect China�s economy to become the world�s largest sometime in the 2020s. In per-capita terms, China�s GDP is still outside the top 50.
In November 2013 NBS deputy commissioner Xu Xianchun said China would implement the SNA following the completion of the census. That led to expectations that the GDP revisions based on the census would apply the updated standard.

But in its release on Friday, the NBS said the revision �was mainly based on the basic material provided by the economic census� and that the agency had implemented pre-existing national accounting procedures. Those procedures, which China adopted in 2002, are based on the UN�s 1993 framework.

Rhodium estimates that if the 2008 framework had been applied, it would have resulted in an upward revision of 5-10 per cent, with the largest portion of newfound GDP coming from improved measurement of services.

As it stands, the latest revision is smaller than those made following China�s two previous censuses in 2004 and 2008. The first census raised the economy�s official size for 2004 by 16.8 per cent, while the second survey raised the estimate for 2008 by 4.4 per cent.

But even the smaller revision indicates China is making progress in reducing the dominance of industry in its economy. The services share of GDP rose to 46.9 per cent, from 46.1 per cent, while the industry share slipped to 43.7 per cent from 43.9 per cent.

The NBS said the 2014 figure was unlikely to alter China�s official GDP growth rate for 2014 because results from the latest census were already applied to quarterly growth figures released this year.

The latest revisions will be followed by comparable adjustments for 2009 to 2012 but economists do not expect big changes to GDP growth rates for those years.
Twitter: @gabewildau

# ? Dec 19, 2014 07:55

Mustang: Jun 18, 2006; “We don’t really know where this goes — and I’m not sure we really care.”

Do any other countries later revise their GDP data?

edit:spelling

Mustang fucked around with this message at 08:09 on Dec 19, 2014

# ? Dec 19, 2014 08:06

GhostofJohnMuir: Aug 14, 2014; anime is not good

Mustang posted:

Do any other countries later revise their GDP date?

Figures get revised all the time. More time equals more data collected equals subsequent revisions to initial calculations.

# ? Dec 19, 2014 08:08

Fojar38: Sep 2, 2011; Sorry I meant to say I hope that the police use maximum force and kill or maim a bunch of innocent people, thus paving a way for a proletarian uprising and socialist utopia

also here's a stupid take
---------------------------->

I'm not sure I buy the Chinese government suddenly pulling out an extra 3.4 percent for last year the moment it becomes obvious that they won't meet their GDP goals for this year.

quote:

In terms of market exchange rates, which are viewed as a better measure of a country�s relative weight in the global economy, economists expect China�s economy to become the world�s largest sometime in the 2020s.

That's weird, four years ago they were predicting 2016.

# ? Dec 19, 2014 08:18

Raenir Salazar: Nov 5, 2010; College Slice

Fojar38 posted:

I'm not sure I buy the Chinese government suddenly pulling out an extra 3.4 percent for last year the moment it becomes obvious that they won't meet their GDP goals for this year.

That's weird, four years ago they were predicting 2016.

That's if it kept growing by 15% each year.

# ? Dec 19, 2014 15:35

Arglebargle III: Feb 21, 2006

Projecting short-term trends as straight lines into infinity is the most powerful form of flimflam known to man.

# ? Dec 20, 2014 05:40

paragon1: Nov 22, 2010; FULL COMMUNISM NOW

Bloodnose posted:

I don't know that. What's the gimmick? It seems like he's just an excitable person with bad opinions.

Pretending he's a moderately wealthy/connected Democratic (as in the political party) policy adviser or political operative. Usually it consists of him posting lovely racist nationalist garbage opinions that a lot of the party elite actually hold dressed up in the think-tank speak those kinds of people will use when talking about policy. So poo poo like "We could totally pass Universal Healthcare and Minimum Guaranteed Income if we're willing to throw black people under the bus to get the racist vote."

So basically what you said. Filter for his posts in the USPol or chat threads and you'll get the gist of it.

(Please don't actually do that)

# ? Dec 20, 2014 06:59

Fojar38: Sep 2, 2011; Sorry I meant to say I hope that the police use maximum force and kill or maim a bunch of innocent people, thus paving a way for a proletarian uprising and socialist utopia

also here's a stupid take
---------------------------->

Raenir Salazar posted:

That's if it kept growing by 15% each year.

I know, I just find it amusing that the date of the inevitable Chinese takeover keeps getting pushed back.

# ? Dec 20, 2014 10:05

Wistful of Dollars: Aug 25, 2009

Fojar38 posted:

I know, I just find it amusing that the date of the inevitable Chinese takeover keeps getting pushed back.

I'd say "Any Day Now(tm)" but that's reserved for a nuclear Iran.

# ? Dec 20, 2014 18:32

namaste friends: Sep 18, 2004; by Smythe

http://www.ft.com/intl/cms/s/0/d523...l#axzz3MUkC0tpN

quote:

Chinese house prices fell at a slower pace in November, in a tentative sign that the sickly housing market may soon bottom out, lightening its drag on the broader economy.

House prices on new homes fell by an average of 3.6 per cent in November from a year earlier, according to Financial Times calculations based on the government�s survey of 70 large and medium-sized cities. That is the largest annual drop on record since the government stopped publishing nationwide price data at the beginning of 2011.

But on a monthly basis, November�s data showed signs of improvement. New house prices fell by 0.6 per cent in November from a month earlier, down from declines of 0.8 per cent in October and 1.0 per cent in September.

�The central bank�s policy to aid the market is having an impact,� said Yan Yuejin, researcher at E-house China R&D Institute, a Communist party-linked research organisation. �The pace of destocking in various cities is accelerating . . . There is hope that first-tier cities will halt their monthly declines and begin a rebound by the year-end.�

Indeed, data out last week showed property sales volume at an 11-month high in floor-area terms in November, although it was still down 13 per cent from a year earlier.
House prices have now fallen year on year for three straight months, while month-on-month declines began in May.

�House price decline will continue going into next year, but the pace of adjustment will moderate,� Zhu Haibin, chief China economist at JPMorgan, wrote in a note.
Mr Zhu expects the market will bottom out at a level 5-10 per cent below the peak hit in 2013.

But while the magnitude of price falls looks moderate, the impact of the slowdown on new construction and on demand for basic commodities such as steel, cement and copper will continue to exert a drag on the economy next year, economists say.

A flash manufacturing survey released on Tuesday showed the sector contracting last month for the first time since May. Figures out last week showed industrial production and investment both lower.
�We expect the government will continue to ease housing policies in 2015 to slow down the adjustment process,� said Mr Zhu.

# ? Dec 21, 2014 03:20

Fojar38: Sep 2, 2011; Sorry I meant to say I hope that the police use maximum force and kill or maim a bunch of innocent people, thus paving a way for a proletarian uprising and socialist utopia

also here's a stupid take
---------------------------->

So this is an attempt to avoid a hard landing and economic crash, rather than an attempt to maintain growth levels, yes?

# ? Dec 21, 2014 03:42

namaste friends: Sep 18, 2004; by Smythe

Fojar38 posted:

So this is an attempt to avoid a hard landing and economic crash, rather than an attempt to maintain growth levels, yes?

It's definitely an attempt to avoid a crash. I don't know how far China is willing to go.

# ? Dec 21, 2014 04:28

whatever7: Jul 26, 2001; by LITERALLY AN ADMIN

Selling land is Chinese provincial governments' main source of income. There is no chance Beijingwill let the real estate price drop if they can help it, even though the current real estate price is too high in relation to the Chinese income.

# ? Dec 22, 2014 16:39

drilldo squirt: Aug 18, 2006; a beautiful, soft meat sack; Clapping Larry

whatever7 posted:

Selling land is Chinese provincial governments' main source of income. There is no chance Beijingwill let the real estate price drop if they can help it, even though the current real estate price is too high in relation to the Chinese income.

That seems like a bad idea to me.

# ? Dec 22, 2014 16:49

I would blow Dane Cook: Dec 26, 2008

quote:

BEIJING � Chrisdien Deny, a retail chain with more than 500 locations across China, sells belts, shoes and clothing with an �Italian style� � and a logo with the same font as Christian Dior�s.

Helen Keller, named for the deaf-blind American humanitarian, offers trendy sunglasses and classic spectacles at over 80 stores, with the motto �you see the world, the world sees you.�

Frognie Zila, a clothing brand sold in 120 stores in China, boasts that its �international� selection is �one of the first choices of successful politicians and businessmen� and features pictures on its website of the Leaning Tower of Pisa and Venetian canals.

Eager to glaze their products with the sheen of international sophistication, many homegrown retail brands have hit upon a similar formula: Choose a non-Chinese name that gives the impression of being foreign.

�You could call it fawning on foreign powers,� said Cheng Wei, 37, who was recently at a Beijing mall buying winter clothes at Chocoolate, a Hong Kong casual wear outlet, where Chinese characters were absent from all but one store logo.

At a time when manufacturing is cooling and real estate is slumping, consumption is a bright spot in the Chinese economy. In the first 11 months of 2014, retail sales grew by 12 percent over the previous year to 23.66 trillion renminbi, or $3.8 trillion, according to the National Bureau of Statistics.

The government considers consumer spending so vital that Prime Minister Li Keqiang in November declared, �Let the people be able to consume, dare to consume and be willing to consume,� according to the state news agency Xinhua.

But some Chinese appear loath to spend their disposable income on locally produced fashions.

�Buy Chinese brands? Never,� said Fu Rao, 20, a university student, who was browsing the clothes at the Japanese outlet store Snidel in an upscale Beijing mall one recent evening. Ms. Fu complained that Chinese products were shoddily made and lacking in style. �Foreign stuff is so much better,� she said.

As Chinese retail companies try to attract consumers, mystifying maladaptations of English have spread across the country�s storefronts, shopping bags and clothing labels. Wanko, Hotwind, Scat, Orgee and Marisfrolg (the L is silent) all sell clothing. A sponsor of China�s national golf team is the apparel chain Biemlfdlkk.

If Chinese companies have stumbled in the branding race, that is because few ever gave it much thought. For years, as China�s economic growth soared into the double digits, branding was largely considered a low-priority marketing decision left to top executives far more concerned with the next product introduction than with building long-term value, said Joel Backaler, author of �China Goes West,� a book that charts the efforts of Chinese companies seeking to build international brands.

In China, many Western brands have chosen a Mandarin-language name that will convey relevant qualities to consumers, like Coca-Cola, whose Chinese brand name � Kekoukele � translates as Tasty Fun. Other foreign brands such as Cadillac, or Ka di la ke in Mandarin characters, stick with a phonetic transliteration that has no Chinese meaning, thus signaling their foreign cachet.

Some local companies have gone the same route, employing phonetic if meaningless brand names to obtain a foreign-sounding flair, even though they are actually homegrown.

The golf apparel brand Biemlfdlkk, sold in over 450 Chinese stores, goes by Biyinlefen in Mandarin, using four characters that translate literally as �compare music rein fragrant.� While the name may be ambiguous by design, it can make creating a uniform brand identity difficult. A Biemlfdlkk saleswoman in the southern city of Guangzhou explained, �It�s a German name." An employee at another Biemlfdlkk shop had a different explanation: �It�s the name of a French designer.�

Rather than create distinct branding, other local companies have chosen simply to mimic well-known foreign brands. �Chinese brands copy because they believe it enables them to get an easy, quick win,� said Vladimir Djurovic, president of the Labbrand Consulting Company in Shanghai. �They play on the confusion.�

The knockoff casual wear brand Clio Coddle has a green crocodile logo reminiscent of Lacoste. Across China, sneakers are emblazoned with Adidos, Hike, Cnoverse and Fuma � featuring a smoking puma � and there are SQNY batteries and Johnnie Worker Red Labial whiskey.

Reached by phone, a Chrisdien Deny representative denied that the brand was trying to piggyback on the reputation of Christian Dior, which has dozens of stores in China. �I�ve never heard of that company,� said the representative, who declined to give her name. Christian Dior declined to comment.

Chrisdien Deny has no Chinese-language brand name and is a subsidiary of Huayu Group Holdings Ltd., based in Guangzhou. Huayu claims to be the Far East distributor of the �century-old European brand� Chrisdien Deny, according to its employee recruiting materials.

Chinese brand names have stoked international controversy in the past. One of China�s most popular toothpaste brands is known as Darlie in English but Hei Ren, or Black People, in Mandarin. In 1985, Colgate-Palmolive bought 50 percent of the Hong Kong company that owned the brand, which was then called Darkie in English. Its logo was a grinning minstrel in blackface wearing a top hat, tuxedo and bow tie.

After three years of pressure by African-Americans, religious groups and shareholders who found the brand derogatory, Colgate made the logo more racially ambiguous and changed the English name to Darlie, though the Mandarin remains unchanged. �Colgate is committed to demonstrating respect to all people,� the company has said in a statement on its website. �We understand that there are different perspectives on the Chinese language brand, and we continue to consider these perspectives in our discussions� with the Hong Kong founders.

Helen Keller glasses would probably have a hard time selling overseas, too. Though the company�s website includes a lengthy biography of Helen Keller, it omits all mention of the disabilities she worked hard to overcome.

Reached by phone, a brand manager found nothing problematic about the omission. �So she�s blind and deaf � her personal shortcomings are not related to the spirit of our brand,� said the woman, who gave only her surname, Jiang. �These products help you love and protect your eyes. Why would that be offensive?�

Facing rising labor costs and increased competition, businesses are now thinking more carefully about brand identity, analysts say. �Yesterday�s strategy is no longer effective,� said Mr. Backaler, the �China Goes West� author.

Labbrand has developed over 200 brand names for Western companies entering the Chinese market and Chinese companies looking to build global brands. Labbrand�s president, Mr. Djurovic, said the company�s work creating brand names in the Latin alphabet has increased significantly in recent years, suggesting that Chinese companies are beginning to realize they cannot just transliterate their Mandarin brand names or mimic Western ones if they hope to win the loyalties of customers, not just in China but around the world.

So far, only a few domestic brands have succeeded abroad, mostly in high tech. One notable exception is Haier, the world�s top electronic home appliance brand for the last five years, according to the market research firm Euromonitor International.

The Chinese sportswear maker Li Ning, based in Beijing, has not been as fortunate. Despite opening stores in the United States and spending heavily on American advertising, the company reported net losses of $75 million in the first half of the year, three times as much as its net loss in 2013.

At home, one of the toughest challenges for local brands is Chinese consumers themselves. Suby Zhou, 27, a property rights manager, said she did not see much difference between local and foreign brands. �Everything�s so international now,� she said, while shopping at a Uniqlo outlet in Beijing.

Still, the power of foreign branding has left an indelible impression. Ms. Zhou could easily rattle off foreign brands she liked, among them Zara and H&M, but when asked about favored Chinese brands she drew a blank. �I can�t think of any,� she said.

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/12/27/b...erish.html?_r=0

# ? Dec 29, 2014 09:57

Torka: Jan 5, 2008

quote:

Wanko, Hotwind, Scat

lmao

# ? Dec 29, 2014 10:13

icantfindaname: Jul 1, 2008

quote:

The golf apparel brand Biemlfdlkk, sold in over 450 Chinese stores, goes by Biyinlefen in Mandarin, using four characters that translate literally as �compare music rein fragrant.� While the name may be ambiguous by design, it can make creating a uniform brand identity difficult. A Biemlfdlkk saleswoman in the southern city of Guangzhou explained, �It�s a German name." An employee at another Biemlfdlkk shop had a different explanation: �It�s the name of a French designer.�

At least the Japanese use actual German words as cool foreign sounding nonsense

# ? Dec 29, 2014 10:25

I would blow Dane Cook: Dec 26, 2008

The golf apparel brand Biemlfdlkk, sold in over 450 Chinese stores, goes by Biyinlefen in Mandarin, using four characters that translate literally as �compare music rein fragrant.� While the name may be ambiguous by design, it can make creating a uniform brand identity difficult. A Biemlfdlkk saleswoman in the southern city of Guangzhou explained, �It�s a German name." An employee at another Biemlfdlkk shop had a different explanation: �It�s the name of a French designer.�

# ? Dec 29, 2014 10:36

Vesi: Jan 12, 2005; pikachu looking at?

Wanko seems wildly successful at least, there's one in almost every mall here

# ? Dec 29, 2014 11:37

Deep State of Mind: Jul 30, 2006; "It was a busy day. I do not remember it all. In the morning, I thought I had lost my wallet. Then we went swimming and either overthrew a government or started a pro-American radio station. I can't really remember."; Fun Shoe

Yeah they're all over Hong Kong too.

# ? Dec 29, 2014 13:32

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# ? May 16, 2024 00:13

Kopijeger: Feb 14, 2010

quote:

Johnnie Worker Red Labial whiskey

# ? Dec 29, 2014 14:19

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Debate & Discussion > China Economy Megathread

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