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BravestOfTheLamps posted:Idiots in the comments are right for once, it is pretty insubstantial. It's not insubstantial, it's that the "Dark Enlightenment" is fundamentally ridiculous. That is, it deserves ridicule. There isn't substance to these people, so they do not deserve a substantial intellectual rebuttal. They are silly, silly people who deserve mockery.
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# ? Dec 22, 2014 00:25 |
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# ? May 9, 2024 20:54 |
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I think this is Dark Enlightenment stuff? I have no loving idea. Oh, and seeing as we spent the past couple pages talking about Justine Tunney and trans people, her being part of the DE movement makes even little sense. See this graph/mind-map in the OP? As the OP kind of touches on, the HBD movement were basically the Dark Enlightenment before the Dark Enlightenment existed. We all remember The Bell Curve, right? That was the HBD movement. Several members of the Human Biodiversity Institute, Ray Blanchard and J. Michael Bailey, promote a really controversial theory that basically says "if you're a trans woman and into chicks you've really just got a fetish for yourself as a woman". Back in 2003, the SPLC did a report into how horrifically homo/transphobic the HBI, and their pet theory of "autogynephilia", as they call it, actually is. Ten years later, and Bailey still remains a professor, and was last in the news for using a "fucksaw" on his students. Ray Blanchard, on the other hand, managed to rise to chair a DSM V working group and get his pet theory in the book.
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# ? Dec 22, 2014 01:24 |
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TinTower posted:I think this is Dark Enlightenment stuff? I have no loving idea. Excuse me, but the first Dark Enlightenment was the Italian Futurists. Also, I'm Judge Bitch.
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# ? Dec 22, 2014 02:21 |
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I like how the Dark Enlightenment love making charts and graphs for themselves, and none of them ever clarify anything.
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# ? Dec 22, 2014 02:25 |
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The Vosgian Beast posted:I like how the Dark Enlightenment love making charts and graphs for themselves, and none of them ever clarify anything. The purpose of charts and graphs is not to elucidate, but to intimidate.
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# ? Dec 22, 2014 02:56 |
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It's because they confuse data with facts.
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# ? Dec 22, 2014 04:01 |
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TetsuoTW posted:It's because they confuse their rear end with a hole in the ground.
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# ? Dec 22, 2014 15:13 |
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Also that chart unsurprisingly includes a few straight up white supremacists.
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# ? Dec 22, 2014 16:22 |
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Pedestrian Xing posted:Also that chart unsurprisingly includes a few straight up white supremacists. Um I think you mean masculine patriots of genetic
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# ? Dec 22, 2014 18:10 |
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Pedestrian Xing posted:Also that chart unsurprisingly includes a few straight up white supremacists. 'A few'?
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# ? Dec 22, 2014 18:14 |
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Two pretty great things about that chart: 1. The "ethno-nationalists" section includes VDare.com, named after Virginia Dare, supposedly the first white child born in what's now the U.S.; the same site also used to regularly host content written by LF's good friend, founder of not-at-all-fascist Youth For Western Civilization and former Pat Buchanan staffer, Marcus Epstein: quote:[Epstein] uttered, 'friend of the family,' as he delivered a karate chop to Ms. [REDACTED]'s head.
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# ? Dec 22, 2014 18:26 |
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Luigi's Discount Porn Bin posted:2. The "femininity" section is completely unconnected to the rest of the Dark Enlightenment HMM I WONDER WHY It's weird that they didn't even connect it to "Thinking Housewife" even though they carefully put Thinking Housewife over in the
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# ? Dec 22, 2014 20:45 |
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Is "Red Pill Wifery" another name for A World Called Gor [whipcrack]?
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# ? Dec 22, 2014 21:13 |
Tiberius Thyben posted:Excuse me, but the first Dark Enlightenment was the Italian Futurists. Hey, don't lump the Futurists in with these idiots. Whatever their politics, the Futurist Manifesto is still an electrifying piece of poetry. I might not agree with their views but this is a far cry from the Dark Enlightenment's usual obscurantist waffle: quote:We are on the extreme promontory of the centuries! What is the use of looking behind at the moment when we must open the mysterious shutters of the impossible? Time and Space died yesterday. We are already living in the absolute, since we have already created eternal, omnipresent speed. Don't you just want to crank up the Attack on Titan theme and shout that at the top of your lungs?
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# ? Dec 23, 2014 02:23 |
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Count Chocula posted:Hey, don't lump the Futurists in with these idiots. Whatever their politics, the Futurist Manifesto is still an electrifying piece of poetry. I might not agree with their views but this is a far cry from the Dark Enlightenment's usual obscurantist waffle: Starting an "Is Attack on Titan fascist?" debate in PYF? Well played. Unless you're sincerely defending Matinetti's declared intent "to glorify war — the only cure for the world — militarism, patriotism, the destructive gesture of the anarchists, the beautiful ideas which kill, and contempt for woman." Edit: For the sake of fairness, another translation has "We will glorify war—the world’s only hygiene—militarism, patriotism, the destructive gesture of freedom-bringers, beautiful ideas worth dying for, and scorn for woman." This is slightly better ("scorn" is subtly different from "contempt," dying for an idea isn't the same as being killed by one, and "freedom-bringers" saves Matinetti from the contradiction of championing both patriotism and anarchism), but not by much. Silver2195 has a new favorite as of 03:46 on Dec 23, 2014 |
# ? Dec 23, 2014 03:35 |
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Jack Gladney posted:Is "Red Pill Wifery" another name for A World Called Gor [whipcrack]? There's a forum called /r/Redpillwomen which is basically for women who buy into that stuff. It's like a social experiment in stockholm syndrome.
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# ? Dec 23, 2014 03:38 |
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RagnarokAngel posted:There's a forum called /r/Redpillwomen which is basically for women who buy into that stuff. It's like a social experiment in stockholm syndrome. Don't forget Christian Domestic Discipline.
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# ? Dec 23, 2014 03:54 |
Silver2195 posted:Starting an "Is Attack on Titan fascist?" debate in PYF? Well played. Oh, I disagree with the IDEAS. But I first encountered the Manifesto in an art history class and presented as a piece of rhetoric or poetry it's stirring. And the call to turn art and poetry away from natural subjects to technological ones is a good call. quote:MANIFESTO OF FUTURISM Count Chocula has a new favorite as of 04:43 on Dec 23, 2014 |
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# ? Dec 23, 2014 04:37 |
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Absurd Alhazred posted:Don't forget Christian Domestic Discipline. I saw a story or documentary or something about a woman who thought this was a great idea until her husband wound up using threats of violence to turn her into a silent slave and she was horribly terrified the entire time but thought that this was how a relationship "should" be at the time or something like that and it was all very
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# ? Dec 23, 2014 04:52 |
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I see your point about the idea of art depicting machines. Having said that, even the non-political parts of the Futurist Manifesto are often pretty silly, and the love of machines has a nasty side too.Marinetti posted:Literature has up to now magnified pensive immobility, ecstasy and slumber. We want to exalt movements of aggression, feverish sleeplessness, the double march, the perilous leap, the slap and the blow with the fist. G. K. Chesterton posted:While I am quite willing to exalt the cuff within reason, it scarcely seems such an entirely new subject for literature as the Futurists imagine. It seems to me that even through the slumber which fills the Siege of Troy, the Song of Roland, and the Orlando Furioso, and in spite of the thoughtful immobility which marks "Pantagruel," "Henry V," and the Ballad of Chevy Chase, there are occasional gleams of an admiration for courage, a readiness to glorify the love of danger, and even the "strengt of daring," I seem to remember, slightly differently spelt, somewhere in literature.
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# ? Dec 23, 2014 05:26 |
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Absurd Alhazred posted:Don't forget Christian Domestic Discipline. Lifestyle BDSM people are weird, sure, but I don't know if it's fair to lump people into CDD with redpillwomen. I mean, there's is a modest community of people that practice a secular form of it.
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# ? Dec 23, 2014 05:39 |
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Monocled Falcon posted:Lifestyle BDSM people are weird, sure, but I don't know if it's fair to lump people into CDD with redpillwomen. I mean, there's is a modest community of people that practice a secular form of it. TinTower posted:I think this is Dark Enlightenment stuff? I have no loving idea. SurreptitiousMuffin has a new favorite as of 06:11 on Dec 23, 2014 |
# ? Dec 23, 2014 06:09 |
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SurreptitiousMuffin posted:Um, dude, that's not BDSM. It's not a kayfabe kink thing. It's a group of men who believe they need to spank/beat their wives to bring them together as a family. They're very adamant about the fact that it is NOT SEXUAL . Whether or not you believe them, they are very serious about it. Quite a few of the testimonials are from women, though.
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# ? Dec 23, 2014 06:50 |
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Perhaps he's mistakenly talking about the quiverfull movement?
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# ? Dec 23, 2014 07:30 |
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Absurd Alhazred posted:Quite a few of the testimonials are from women, though. The women buy into it too, they both agree to the woman's "place" and the man's "place" in disciplining her. It has nothing to do with the BDSM community for a variety of reasons, not the least of which is BDSM's valuing of safewords and consent.
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# ? Dec 23, 2014 07:35 |
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The Futurist Manifesto somehow gets dumber every time I see it; anyone sincerely moved by it is pretty drat naïve.
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# ? Dec 23, 2014 07:40 |
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Parallel Paraplegic posted:The women buy into it too, they both agree to the woman's "place" and the man's "place" in disciplining her. It has nothing to do with the BDSM community for a variety of reasons, not the least of which is BDSM's valuing of safewords and consent. Not that I was making the connection to BDSM (that was Monocled Falcon), but from the very homepage I linked: "This website is intended to be a haven for married couples who practise safe and consensual Christian Domestic Discipline (CDD)" That being said, if you read their Non-Conesnsual Consent page, safewords aren't really there. It does, in any event, seem to fit in with redpilledwomen as far as them buying into this submission above and beyond play-acting - which is why I brought it up.
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# ? Dec 23, 2014 07:49 |
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And I'm just saying it's doesn't seem all that different from any other supposedly permanent lifestyle BDSM kink like Total Power Exchange.
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# ? Dec 23, 2014 08:08 |
Silver2195 posted:I see your point about the idea of art depicting machines. Having said that, even the non-political parts of the Futurist Manifesto are often pretty silly, and the love of machines has a nasty side too. Wasn't there an SA troll who claimed to be a 'GK Chesterton style Catholic' who was really into the monarchy and DE stuff? There's a great Michael Moorcock essay that explains why LOTR appeals to these types.
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# ? Dec 23, 2014 08:34 |
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Monocled Falcon posted:Perhaps he's mistakenly talking about the quiverfull movement? Seriously just go listen to the FPlus episode. It's educational, to say the least. Why does this thread keep going into FPlus subjects. What does the FPlus keep going into this thread's subjects. It's weird when the internet streams cross.
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# ? Dec 23, 2014 08:35 |
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Eh, it still doesn't seem all that different from the regular kind of Domestic Discipline.
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# ? Dec 23, 2014 09:38 |
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TinTower posted:I think this is Dark Enlightenment stuff? I have no loving idea. Hmmm... I think I'll be the seductive gaze (no homo).
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# ? Dec 23, 2014 09:49 |
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Count Chocula posted:Wasn't there an SA troll who claimed to be a 'GK Chesterton style Catholic' who was really into the monarchy and DE stuff? That would be this guy, and I think he still does it sometimes.
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# ? Dec 23, 2014 10:31 |
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Absurd Alhazred posted:Not that I was making the connection to BDSM (that was Monocled Falcon), but from the very homepage I linked:
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# ? Dec 23, 2014 15:36 |
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Count Chocula posted:Wasn't there an SA troll who claimed to be a 'GK Chesterton style Catholic' who was really into the monarchy and DE stuff? edit: This stuff works great if you're a Tory (like the article you posted gets into), but it's completely antithetical to American values. David Brin has a nice essay series about how awful the values of LOtR and even Star Wars are. I'm trying to remember who it was who observed that in genre fiction, high fantasy has always been the domain of Christianity and European ethnic identity, and conversely sci-fi is dominated by assimilated Jews. The point being that sci-fi embraces a metropolitan, technological, secular and democratic future ideal that is very much in line with the sorts of American dream stuff that brought Jews to the US. It's reformist and progressive by its nature, even when it's dystopian, because the dystopia is usually a critique of lower social states like fascism. High fantasy on the other hand is nostalgic about a return to a social order where white kings, queens and knights literally lorded over everyone else by divine right. neonnoodle has a new favorite as of 16:48 on Dec 23, 2014 |
# ? Dec 23, 2014 16:34 |
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neonnoodle posted:Chesterton had a huge influence on both Tolkein and C.S. Lewis, and Chesterton (and Belloc)'s Catholic socialism was pretty compatible with monarchy. Not coincidentally, Chesterton and Belloc were also xenophobes who thought the influx of ethnic immigrants to Britain, combined with evil technological capitalism and banking, was going to ruin their pastoral fairyland. So other than the xenophobia, they were pretty much on the money.
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# ? Dec 23, 2014 16:39 |
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neonnoodle posted:Chesterton had a huge influence on both Tolkein and C.S. Lewis, and Chesterton (and Belloc)'s Catholic socialism was pretty compatible with monarchy. Not coincidentally, Chesterton and Belloc were also xenophobes who thought the influx of ethnic immigrants to Britain, combined with evil technological capitalism and banking, was going to ruin their pastoral fairyland. A lot of neo-reactionaries love both SF and Fantasy though, being huge nerds.
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# ? Dec 23, 2014 16:54 |
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Oh yeah no doubts there. This was the article I was trying to remember: Why There is no Jewish Narnia
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# ? Dec 23, 2014 17:05 |
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neonnoodle posted:Chesterton had a huge influence on both Tolkein and C.S. Lewis, and Chesterton (and Belloc)'s Catholic socialism was pretty compatible with monarchy. Not coincidentally, Chesterton and Belloc were also xenophobes who thought the influx of ethnic immigrants to Britain, combined with evil technological capitalism and banking, was going to ruin their pastoral fairyland. lol. quote:Consider the rings. Those man-made wonders are deemed cursed, damning anyone who dares to use them, especially those nine normal humans who tried to rise up, using tools to equalize and then usurp the rightful powers of their betters — the High Elves. And I'm done with this nonsense. quote:I'm trying to remember who it was who observed that in genre fiction, high fantasy has always been the domain of Christianity and European ethnic identity, and conversely sci-fi is dominated by assimilated Jews. The point being that sci-fi embraces a metropolitan, technological, secular and democratic future ideal that is very much in line with the sorts of American dream stuff that brought Jews to the US. It's reformist and progressive by its nature, even when it's dystopian, because the dystopia is usually a critique of lower social states like fascism. High fantasy on the other hand is nostalgic about a return to a social order where white kings, queens and knights literally lorded over everyone else by divine right. This is especially funny given that Brin himself contributed to the Foundation fan-fiction canon.
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# ? Dec 23, 2014 18:30 |
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# ? May 9, 2024 20:54 |
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InediblePenguin posted:that page you linked explicitly says that by marrying somebody you've just given consent forever. that outdated concept that lead to the idea that you can't get raped if you're married. just because they said "safe and consensual" at one point doesn't mean they are actually using the words to mean what they're supposed to mean to society at large I just think this is a cautionary tale which should be in people's minds when they assess more "progressive" BDSM power exchanges and such. Is there a real exit strategy for someone being abused? You look at stories from the "DD is not DV" page, like this one, and she says she "was able to escape" a relationship she did find abusive, but there's nothing in her description of the loving submissive relationship she has now that provides tools for women to leave, and there is a lot of metaphorical self-flagellation. I've seen disturbingly similar themes in BDSM submissive writing, even though the reasoning is not faith-based. In any event, CDD would probably seem very sensible to neoractionaries (except they could never live up to the ideals of the benevolent Christian husband these women are looking for, and they couldn't lead an expedition to find their own rear end in a top hat, much less a household), and these women definitely sound redpilled.
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# ? Dec 23, 2014 18:49 |