|
Hopefully therapist gets updated soon. I thought there was some kind of built-in labours management thing in the current version of DF, but if so then I cannot find it.  As to talk about embark profiles, it's basically a question of how specialized you want your start to be. Some basic tips include getting free containers by getting 1-unit stacks of things (like cheap meat), but it's the dwarf skills, animals and other items where I get all fiddly with numbers. A few common themes ring true for me, such as putting Plant Gathering and Wood Cutting on the same dwarf (because he will be outside) and using miners as military (because picks are deadly against lightly armoured foes and training up the mining skill is fast). What do you usually do for your starting dwarfs?
|
#
?
Dec 22, 2014 18:49
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 23, 2024 11:44 |
|
|
Nietzschean posted:Hopefully therapist gets updated soon. I thought there was some kind of built-in labours management thing in the current version of DF, but if so then I cannot find it. There's an updated memory profile already: http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=122968.msg5895775#msg5895775 quote:As to talk about embark profiles, it's basically a question of how specialized you want your start to be. Some basic tips include getting free containers by getting 1-unit stacks of things (like cheap meat), but it's the dwarf skills, animals and other items where I get all fiddly with numbers. A few common themes ring true for me, such as putting Plant Gathering and Wood Cutting on the same dwarf (because he will be outside) and using miners as military (because picks are deadly against lightly armoured foes and training up the mining skill is fast). What do you usually do for your starting dwarfs? I have a pretty standard setup (as I am boring) that consists of:
the rest of the skills and items depend on where i am embarking and what I'm trying to do. I usually try to have an organizer/record keeper/appraiser (especially the first two, once you get that record keeper going he does it for basically free). The food/booze keeps me going for at least the first year before I have to worry about getting that industry setup, which I like because I want my farm hard to access from outside the fort. necrotic fucked around with this message at 20:01 on Dec 22, 2014 |
|
#
?
Dec 22, 2014 19:45
|
|
|
Nietzschean posted:Hopefully therapist gets updated soon. I thought there was some kind of built-in labours management thing in the current version of DF, but if so then I cannot find it. I have literally never used a custom profile. I always take the quick let's go strike the earth option. (And then I end up with pairs of animals of the same sex until a migrant wave or trade caravan happen to bring me the right stuff!) It seems like it would be easy to accidentally screw yourself with a custom embark profile... I don't want to have the kind of oversight where no one packs socks and underwear or something stupid like that, and then 4 months in the entire fortress dies in a tantrum spiral as the last pair of xpig tail boxersx disintegrates in a tug-of-war.
|
|
#
?
Dec 22, 2014 19:46
|
|
|
You don't need to pack clothes in custom profiles. Each dwarf comes with a full set of clothes equipped for free. You CAN screw yourself over by forgetting to pack a pickaxe or something, but that's generally not a mistake you make more than once.
|
|
#
?
Dec 22, 2014 19:53
|
|
|
Remember that you can squeeze out a few extra free barrels if you take an odd number of items. Barrels store in groups of 10 so if you take 21 booze then you get 3 barrels.1 In my efforts to re-learn DF lately I've been reading about embarks, and I think the wiki explains things pretty well. The quickstart guide links to this short page (I know how DF Wiki can be with 10-15 open tabs) that explains the basics of what you need. It's really possible to survive with no items at the start, if you're in a safe environment, as long as you're ok with not digging until the first trade caravan arrives. Dismantle the wagon for 3 wood, build a carpenter's then a training axe, go chop wood and build a human-type city. 1Exrapolate this to take 1 of every food type for a fuckload of barrels of course
|
|
#
?
Dec 22, 2014 20:08
|
|
|
Is there a reliable way to access the Wiki's information offline? There are a couple dumps of the wiki floating around there, but I'm more interested in something closer to an app or something I can use on my tablet. EDIT - Appears not. A rainy day project to take a stab at sometime I suppose. Warbird fucked around with this message at 20:34 on Dec 22, 2014 |
|
#
?
Dec 22, 2014 20:15
|
|
|
texasmed posted:1Exrapolate this to take 1 of every food type for a fuckload of barrels of course Also, don't pay for empty bags. Get sand for 1 point and a bag with it!
|
|
#
?
Dec 22, 2014 23:05
|
|
|
Updated and started playing for the first time in two years Forgot how much of a hassle it is to move all the boulders to a stockpile to clean up the place. there an easy way to do this I'm forgetting?
|
|
#
?
Dec 22, 2014 23:18
|
|
|
Yeah, just hide them so you can't see them.
|
|
#
?
Dec 22, 2014 23:23
|
|
|
I should be able to just have masons smooth and engrave them on the spot.
|
|
#
?
Dec 22, 2014 23:33
|
|
|
Set a couple of craftsdwarves to churn out rock crafts non stop. You'll soon run out of rock and blow your fortress value so high that sieges will come annually, but at least you'll be able to buy out every caravan. Or make shitloads of rock blocks for some future megaproject.
|
|
#
?
Dec 23, 2014 01:34
|
|
|
Roki B posted:Updated and started playing for the first time in two years Building constructions is a skilless labor now, so you can put all those useless idlers to use, get rid of all those rocks, and put smooth(ish) flooring in your fortress in one move.
|
|
#
?
Dec 23, 2014 01:50
|
|
|
Lowen posted:Building constructions is a skilless labor now, so you can put all those useless idlers to use, get rid of all those rocks, and put smooth(ish) flooring in your fortress in one move. It would be nice if you could pick which jobs are skilless from a menu in the game. That way I can put all the lazy bums on floor smoothing and turn it off later when I have a few skilled engravers. Or just put smooth floors on the skilless job set permanently and keep engraving for engravers.
|
|
#
?
Dec 23, 2014 02:05
|
|
|
So have people been noticing improvements in job prioritization? Do things feel any different since the patch? Or have we all been waiting for the new dfhack  edit: on the subject of constructions I've been embarking with glassmakers whenever I go to a heavily forested biome. You end up with a ridiculous amount of wood and if you're already using magma for metalforging you haven't got much else to do with it. Glass makes great walls, and you can get a gem setter to work encrusting ammo with glass to train for the eventual actual gem-studded gold crafts! I do really wish I could use it to make the ammo, though. Prop Wash fucked around with this message at 02:49 on Dec 23, 2014 |
|
#
?
Dec 23, 2014 02:43
|
|
|
Lowen posted:Building constructions is a skilless labor now, so you can put all those useless idlers to use, get rid of all those rocks, and put smooth(ish) flooring in your fortress in one move. Elaborate? How is smoothing a constructions
|
|
#
?
Dec 23, 2014 03:24
|
|
|
Roki B posted:Elaborate? How is smoothing a constructions By building a floor out of blocks or rough stones.
|
|
#
?
Dec 23, 2014 03:25
|
|
|
Bad Munki posted:By building a floor out of blocks or rough stones. Ohhhhh, does that end up changing anything about the floor properties? Or its the same as smoothing except it uses up boulders?
|
|
#
?
Dec 23, 2014 03:30
|
|
|
Just pave roads out of rock blocks, it uses a lot less material and you can make them out of gold
|
|
#
?
Dec 23, 2014 03:32
|
|
|
Roki B posted:Ohhhhh, does that end up changing anything about the floor properties? Or its the same as smoothing except it uses up boulders? It might change the value? I don't recall, I haven't played this game in like a year. Robot Randy posted:Just pave roads out of rock blocks, it uses a lot less material and you can make them out of gold I think that would lead to a less valuable room, though, if that's a concern (for example, in your great hall.) Also, I don't think you can place things like furniture on roads?
|
|
#
?
Dec 23, 2014 03:36
|
|
|
Roki B posted:Ohhhhh, does that end up changing anything about the floor properties? Or its the same as smoothing except it uses up boulders? Smoothing: only works on natural rock floors and walls, can be engraved Constructing Floors: works anywhere there isn't already a construction (including over open space), can't be engraved e: to clarify, don't build floors in your dining room, you really want to smooth them instead so they can be engraved. If you just want to get rid of stone then rough stone floors are great for that, just don't put them in bed/dining/throne/tomb-rooms. Put them in your corridors. Another option is to build roads, or have a mason make some blocks and build out of those. But again if you just want to get rid of stone you don't want to do this since you get 4 blocks per boulder and it takes a mason and an architect rather than a bunch of skilless people who can just get at it. Lowen fucked around with this message at 03:47 on Dec 23, 2014 |
|
#
?
Dec 23, 2014 03:39
|
|
|
The Toady One speaks!quote:I've sorted out the "camp forever" errorlog message many of you have probably seen. Once dwarf/adventure mode began, there was a misflagging that caused various armies to lose their way. It doesn't directly affect invaders camping between marches, but armies lost to the bug (on their way home, for instance, or attacking villages) wouldn't be available for invasions later. This doesn't affect refugee groups that have nowhere to go... they still hang out and sleep all day.
|
|
#
?
Dec 23, 2014 04:10
|
|
|
Demiurge4 posted:It would be nice if you could pick which jobs are skilless from a menu in the game. That way I can put all the lazy bums on floor smoothing and turn it off later when I have a few skilled engravers. Or just put smooth floors on the skilless job set permanently and keep engraving for engravers. Just give it to everyone and set it's priority lower then everything else.
|
|
#
?
Dec 23, 2014 04:24
|
|
|
Don't engrave your floors. It looks gross.
|
|
#
?
Dec 23, 2014 05:03
|
|
|
Regarding constructions — you always want to build out of blocks now, as stone has a 25% fixed chance to drop from mining (no matter the skill of the miner) and you get 4 blocks from one stone. Plus, rough stone walls can be climbed — walls made from blocks cannot.
|
|
#
?
Dec 23, 2014 05:22
|
|
|
PublicOpinion posted:Don't engrave your floors. It looks gross. Engrave the floors of the sacrificial pit so the great deeds of those who came before you are outlined in the blood of your POWs
|
|
#
?
Dec 23, 2014 05:29
|
|
|
My main hallways are usually 3 tiles wide so what I do is smooth it and just engrave the center tile or the two side tiles and it looks pretty. I agree just engraving everything looks cluttered.
|
|
#
?
Dec 23, 2014 06:05
|
|
|
I keep hearing that picks are great for fighting, but how do I get my miners to actually use them to kill stuff? If I put a legendary miner in the military he goes and gets a weapon (which he's poo poo at).
|
|
#
?
Dec 23, 2014 06:19
|
|
megane posted:I keep hearing that picks are great for fighting, but how do I get my miners to actually use them to kill stuff? If I put a legendary miner in the military he goes and gets a weapon (which he's poo poo at). Just have your miners dig poo poo near the stuff you want them to kill, I guess.
|
|
|
#
?
Dec 23, 2014 06:35
|
|
|
Moridin920 posted:My main hallways are usually 3 tiles wide so what I do is smooth it and just engrave the center tile or the two side tiles and it looks pretty. I agree just engraving everything looks cluttered. You can hide engravings though. They still look different from unengraved floors but in a good, stylized way. Engrave Everything™
|
|
#
?
Dec 23, 2014 08:26
|
|
|
megane posted:I keep hearing that picks are great for fighting, but how do I get my miners to actually use them to kill stuff? If I put a legendary miner in the military he goes and gets a weapon (which he's poo poo at). I seem to recall that picks aren't really treated as existing by the military screen or something, so that if you set your dudes to be wrestlers/unarmed, and they happen to be holding a pick, they'll just keep holding it? I don't have any firsthand knowledge of this at all, I think it was just something I read in the wiki like a year ago
|
|
#
?
Dec 23, 2014 10:18
|
|
|
Alehkhs posted:The Toady One speaks! Wonder if that'll fix no more thieves/snatchers/sieges, I've had fortresses go up to 5 years with no sieges and just a couple weres/FBs at most.
|
|
#
?
Dec 23, 2014 10:56
|
|
|
I am waiting for Therapist to be updated to 40.22 before I start playing DF2014, but back in DF2012 you could definitely use picks on military dwarfs. I recall simply shoving my miners into a squad and sending them directly into battle.
|
|
#
?
Dec 23, 2014 11:01
|
|
|
ninjewtsu posted:I seem to recall that picks aren't really treated as existing by the military screen or something, so that if you set your dudes to be wrestlers/unarmed, and they happen to be holding a pick, they'll just keep holding it? in the military screen, you have to replace the individual preference weapon with a "pick (foreign)". Then your miner will use his pick in combat. e: this is actually good, else your dwarves would prefer +Steel Picks+ to Bronze Swords even with 0 mining skill.
|
|
#
?
Dec 23, 2014 13:18
|
|
|
Back to embark profile chat! I am loving how updates since DF2012 have apparently added way more types of animals and associated meats (also garden vegetables!), which of course means more and more free barrels. Spamming all remaining points into a bunch of single-unit stacks of food is a great way to do this, since you would want to bring food anyway. To maximize embark points, buy only the 2-point food types and only one type of meat per animal; different types of meat from the same species will stack in a barrel, but meat from different animals each requires its own barrel. So let's talk basic supplies. A few things that I always include are 6 of each seed (giving me a bag full of 5, plus a bag of 1 for each) and 21 of each drink (the extra 1 for the extra barrel), and one unit each of anything I can foresee needing literally any of just to get the free bag or barrel; for example, I will bring along one unit of wood, one unit of each type of sand, and so on. If my intention is to start a metal industry very quickly, then I will also bring a unit of each of the fuels, flux stone, and iron ores, which again results in more barrels. If you don't want an immediate metal industry, then you do not need those things nor do you need an anvil; however, you probably want to bring some metal tools; e.g., copper picks. Bringing a battle axe is not strictly necessary since you can build a carpenter's workshop and training axe with the three wood that the wagon will deconstruct into, and that is what I generally do as my first military dwarfs are usually miners. After that it's time to look at what animals you might want to bring. I usually bring one male and four female dogs, and the same number of each of the domestic poultry birds. Dogs make excellent guards against snatchers and thieves, and can be trained into war dogs to augment your militia; meanwhile, a bunch of poultry will give you way more food than you will ever need. I am torn on whether to bring cats or livestock; presently, the embark I am going to play as soon as therapist updates has me with some alpacas, whose wool, milk, meat, and cheese ought to give even more variety to the stuff you can produce right away. And then we come to dwarf skills. I have said before that I like my miners to be my initial military, and since mining is so quick to train I generally just make two dwarves with armor user and fighter, then enable the mining labour on them once the game starts. I look for dwarves that have positive physical traits that cannot be altered through experience—fast to heal and disease resistant—since the others will all increase through a lifetime of manual labour. After that, I look for who will be the first three nobles, the bookkeeper, broker, and manager. These can be the same person, and he can be given some other skill that he will use from time to time such as engraving or just work intermittently as a hauler. For the broker you want a point in Appraisal so you can see what things are worth in the trade screen, and a point in Judge of Intent to see the trader's mood which is important in the early game; for the bookkeeper and manager, no skill is required to function and the skills used can be trained on the job. In the early game your noble will spend most of his time doing noble stuff, because his skill levels are low at it, but in the later game he will eventually have all kinds of time to do other things. At some point you are going to need a carpenter, if for no other reason than to make beds. I like to have one on embark, and I have had some success making him a mason as well. You also need to cut some wood, and I like to have a dedicated woodcutter for that. I generally give my woodcutter the herbalist skill as well, and thereby limit the number of dwarves with a reason to go outside the fortress. I also bring at least one grower, who is also a brewer and/or cook; often, I will bring two growers, one a brewer the other a cook. It is entirely feasible to bring an Armorsmith/Weaponsmith with the party and enough iron ore to outfit the two military/mining dwarves within the first month. So, you start with 1504 embark points. First thing to do is assign dwarf skills: 1x Expedition Leader: Appraiser 1, Judge of Intent 1 1x Furnisher: Carpenter 5, Mason 5 1x Grower/Brewer: Grower 5, Brewer 5 1x Grower/Cook: Grower 5, Cook 5 2x Military/Miners: Armor User 5, Fighter 5; enable the labour Mining 1x Weaponsmith/Armorsmith: Weaponsmith 5, Armorsmith 5; enable the labours Furnace Operation and Wood Burning, and he can handle the entire production chain. This puts you at 1073 embark points. Now the essential supplies: 6x cave wheat seeds 6x dimple cup spawn 6x pig tail seeds 6x plump helmet spawn 6x rock nuts 6x sweet pod seeds 21x dwarven ale 21x dwarven beer 21x dwarven rum 21x dwarven wine This puts you at 869 embark points. Now pick your animals: 4x dog, ♀ 1x dog, ♂ 4x hen, ♀ 1x rooster, ♂ 4x duck, ♀ 1x drake, ♂ 4x alpaca, ♀ 1x alpaca, ♂ 4x turkey hen, ♀ 1x turkey gobbler, ♂ This puts you at 194 embark points. Copper picks are 44 each, so a pair brings us down to 106. Iron ores are 24 each, and your civilization might have anywhere from 0 to all 3 types available; so, that'll put you down to, potentially, as low as 34 embark points remaining which is enough to buy 17 to 53 different types of 2-point meats and other food stuffs. This is how I figure up my embark profile. What do you guys do?
|
|
#
?
Dec 23, 2014 14:37
|
|
|
Nietzschean posted:This is how I figure up my embark profile. What do you guys do? code: e: this takes more than 1500 points. Scrap the hematite, make the sword out of copper and reduce everyone's skills to 5 to fit 1500. p.s. I hope my innefficience triggered some 
Excelzior fucked around with this message at 15:03 on Dec 23, 2014 |
|
#
?
Dec 23, 2014 14:59
|
|
|
Reminder: You can change the number of embark points in advanced world generation parameters. If you want to jump start a decent fortress, raise it.
|
|
#
?
Dec 23, 2014 17:20
|
|
|
megane posted:I keep hearing that picks are great for fighting, but how do I get my miners to actually use them to kill stuff? If I put a legendary miner in the military he goes and gets a weapon (which he's poo poo at). You should be able to assign specific weapons under military->equipment
|
|
#
?
Dec 23, 2014 17:25
|
|
|
Nietzschean posted:This is how I figure up my embark profile. What do you guys do? I like to start with good furniture skills, two different dwarves with a 5 in masonry and a 5 in carpentry each. Usually the carpenter is also the first bookkeeper/trader, since he doesn't have a lot of bureaucracy to keep him busy right away. Starting with the ability to make higher quality furniture both makes the initial furniture construction faster, and gives the all the dwarves in the fortress a nice base of happy thoughts to see them through the stressful early years. However, I'm not sure how effective that still is with the new happiness changes. Sometimes instead of military skills I will plan on beelining the magma ASAP, and will actually bring a skilled glassworker and mechanic, which I will use to line the fortress entrance in +Green Glass Serrated Discs+, which just make hash of everything unarmored, which is everything in the first couple years, and even later on they are extremely effective against trolls and the like.
|
|
#
?
Dec 23, 2014 17:41
|
|
|
necrotic posted:There's an updated memory profile already: http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=122968.msg5895775#msg5895775 Does that layout work on linux? Time to find out.
|
|
#
?
Dec 23, 2014 18:49
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 23, 2024 11:44 |
|
|
Nietzschean posted:A few things that I always include are 6 of each seed (giving me a bag full of 5, plus a bag of 1 for each) and 21 of each drink (the extra 1 for the extra barrel), and one unit each of anything I can foresee needing literally any of just to get the free bag or barrel; for example, I will bring along one unit of wood, one unit of each type of sand, and so on. If my intention is to start a metal industry very quickly, then I will also bring a unit of each of the fuels, flux stone, and iron ores, which again results in more barrels. If you don't want an immediate metal industry, then you do not need those things nor do you need an anvil; however, you probably want to bring some metal tools; e.g., copper picks. Bringing a battle axe is not strictly necessary since you can build a carpenter's workshop and training axe with the three wood that the wagon will deconstruct into, and that is what I generally do as my first military dwarfs are usually miners. I have to point out that the bolded is wrong. (AFAICT, this may have changed in the most recent version) Only seeds, sand, and powders will take up bags, and only food and drink will take up barrels. Wood, stone, and metal will just be carried open to the elements. Also, sand comes with one bag per unit, so you don't get any more benefit from bringing one of each type than you do from just bringing a lot of one type. Embark chat: I always make sure everybody has a moodable skill; the farmer(s) will have two or three points in armor-/weapon-smithing, the doctor's also a leatherworker, the administrator also knows stone/glass/bone crafting, and I think everybody else has one by default. It may not increase the chance, since AFAICT moods are still determined by profession, so a farmer/metalsmith would still get a farmer's chance of inspiration, but it increases the utility, since they'd become a legendary metalsmith. I do also go in for DIY weapons; bring an anvil, some ores, a couple hunks of fire-safe stone, and either lots more wood or some coal, and we can have even steel tools for surprisingly cheap. Although granted, I usually stick with copper or possibly bronze for economy's sake, though this still means you can have bronze weapons for less than the embark cost of one bronze axe. On that note, I generally include my carpenter/lumberjack in the (plans for the) military, and give him some points in axe/armor using and animal training. Until they're assigned, trained animals will tend to follow their trainer, so this gets him some cheap armor. OTOH, given that he's going to be using at least 6 skills, this is going to take some points away from his carpentry, but we can probably make up for that by having him crank out barrels and bins by the truckload.
|
|
#
?
Dec 23, 2014 21:06
|
|
