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Rhyno posted:So in Salvation Skynet activates a single T-800 to chase after Conner in the factory where they are building T-800s. They could of just exploded the place also.
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Dec 23, 2014 02:54
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Rhyno posted:So in Salvation Skynet activates a single T-800 to chase after Conner in the factory where they are building T-800s. Given how the terminators in Salvation have a predilection for tossing people around, I'd imagine having two in the same room would result in Connor being thrown between them like they're playing catch, and having a bunch of them would end with Connor crowd surfing for eternity
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Dec 23, 2014 02:55
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Caros posted:Edit: Even just look at the concept art. The concept art designed for this scene that was ultimately cut is currently being reused for the time travel scene in the new film.
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Dec 23, 2014 02:56
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Sasquatch! posted:It looks like it's possible that the entire dropped T2 scene (and not just the concept art) might even be the launching point for Genisys. Do you have links for this?
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Dec 23, 2014 03:00
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Rhyno posted:Do you have links for this?
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Dec 23, 2014 03:04
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Sasquatch! posted:It's speculation on my part, but the beginning of the Genisys trailer looks like the art and reads like the story/script at http://www.hopeofthefuture.net/deletedscenes/t2omit04.html (deleted scene from T2) to me. That's what I meant, links to that stuff. Thanks!
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Dec 23, 2014 03:10
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All aboard the hype train, whooo whooo! Terminator HOPE OF THE FUTURE dot net, sounds credible.
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Dec 23, 2014 03:10
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Rhyno posted:So in Salvation Skynet activates a single T-800 to chase after Conner in the factory where they are building T-800s. None of the other ones are done yet.
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Dec 23, 2014 03:46
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SuperMechagodzilla posted:None of the other ones are done yet. There are dozens of them coming off the assembly line. They also have hundreds of other Terminators walking around the complex and yet none of them can join in and hunt John?
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Dec 23, 2014 03:53
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Rhyno posted:There are dozens of them coming off the assembly line. They also have hundreds of other Terminators walking around the complex and yet none of them can join in and hunt John? Pretty much. The robots aren't 'done' until they've been given the hair-and-skin treatment, so the one that fights John is probably the first prototype. You're even given a specific little sequence where the T-800 rips one of the older models apart for being ineffectual. This isn't 'tactically realistic', but the point is that Skynet's change in tactics is personified by an individual character. The functional T-800 represents the armies to come (and despite all the complaints, it successfully stabs John Connor through the heart - more than you can say for any of the previous ones). But here's the fun thing in Salvation, that no-one has ever questioned before: why is Skynet trying to kill John Connor? Skynet: "Our best machines have failed time again to complete a mission. Something was missing. We had to think, radically. And so we made you. We created the perfect infiltration unit. You, Marcus. You did what Skynet has failed to do for so many years. You killed John Connor." Skynet, at this point, is acting purely off of the information Sarah Connor reported to the police in T1. John Connor hasn't done anything major yet, and Skynet hasn't even invented time-travel yet. It's talking about 'Future Skynet' in the past tense. This Skynet has little reason to hunt down this John Connor. It just does it because it feels like it's supposed to - and that's really interesting.
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Dec 23, 2014 04:27
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Tenzarin posted:All aboard the hype train, whooo whooo! Terminator HOPE OF THE FUTURE dot net, sounds credible. Pretty sure you can see that stuff on the T2 Ultimate Edition DVD. Hell, the concept art for the Skynet complex got made into the animated disc menus.
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Dec 23, 2014 04:33
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Tenzarin posted:All aboard the hype train, whooo whooo! Terminator HOPE OF THE FUTURE dot net, sounds credible. So you're basically just incapable of admitting that you are wrong, is that about right? I mean you can corroborate what they have posted with a simple google search, so I'm not sure what your point is other than just being borderline retarded.
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Dec 23, 2014 05:16
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Rhyno posted:So in Salvation Skynet activates a single T-800 to chase after Conner in the factory where they are building T-800s. He also waltzes straight past a dozen massive automated guns. The whole point of a trap is to be more dangerous than the thing you let them past.
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Dec 23, 2014 06:09
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Snowman_McK posted:He also waltzes straight past a dozen massive automated guns. The whole point of a trap is to be more dangerous than the thing you let them past. Marcus shut those down before he walked in. I'm just saying that as soon as he was inside the building every loving Terminator should have descended on that place like cops at a Tim Horton's grand opening.
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Dec 23, 2014 06:17
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Lurdiak posted:I think Skynet doesn't want to risk killing so many humans that it never gets created. Obviously if its goal was just to kill all humans, it'd go back to like caveman times and kill every ape it sees. Counterpoint, being designed by right wing cold warrior types Skynet thinks humanity was only created 4,000 years ago.
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Dec 23, 2014 06:23
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LaughMyselfTo posted:I've thought a Western-themed Terminator would be quite good for some time. The Back To The Future Part Three of the Terminator franchise. It's called West World.
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Dec 23, 2014 06:41
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Snowman_McK posted:He also waltzes straight past a dozen massive automated guns. The whole point of a trap is to be more dangerous than the thing you let them past. The biggest mindfuck in the series is not the dumb time-travel mechanics, but trying to understand Skynet as a character. It doesn't matter to me that it's the result of rewrites or whatever; despite fan complaints about giving it a human face, Skynet in Salvation is utterly alien and bizarre. To understand its motivations, you have to first puzzle out how much free will Marcus actually has. The only thing we really know for certain is that Skynet built Marcus to kill John Connor. After that, the idea that Marcus was simply a puppet the entire time doesn't fly, given that they send drones and stuff after him, blow him up and so-on. The conclusion to draw is that Skynet never really had much control over Marcus. He's activated by accident, and is a good enough replica of a human that Skynet has deliberately fooled itself into trying to kill him. Since Marcus actually has a human mind and Skynet actually is trying to kill him, he really is the perfect infiltration unit. It simply created a super-powerful human being who hates Skynet. This means Skynet had no idea that Connor was arriving - until Marcus hooked his brain up to the system. Even then, Skynet had no real idea where Connor was until it caught him on camera and lured him into a specific room. So, basically, Skynet had to improvise the actual John Connor murder plan in the time it took to repair Marcus' body. SuperMechagodzilla fucked around with this message at 07:08 on Dec 23, 2014 |
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Dec 23, 2014 07:05
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Lurdiak posted:I think Skynet doesn't want to risk killing so many humans that it never gets created. Obviously if its goal was just to kill all humans, it'd go back to like caveman times and kill every ape it sees. I always thought that the reason it went after Sarah Connor was that it saw removing her, and only her, as the way with the most limited possibility to impact the timeline. The implication is that Skynet has determined that the killing of a waitress in 1980s Los Angeles by some presumably unknown assailant isn't even going to register.
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Dec 23, 2014 08:09
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SuperMechagodzilla posted:The biggest mindfuck in the series is not the dumb time-travel mechanics, but trying to understand Skynet as a character. It doesn't matter to me that it's the result of rewrites or whatever; despite fan complaints about giving it a human face, Skynet in Salvation is utterly alien and bizarre. The perfect infiltration unit right up until someone bothers to run a metal detector across him or he walks through a magnetic (wtf) minefield. As far as your analysis, it is just as likely that Skynet sent drones and stuff after Marcus as part of the ploy. Marcus clearly has some measure of free will, and if you had the machines refusing to take the shot it might give up the game far too early, especially if he is in the company of other people. There is only one time in the film where he is alone where skynet tries to murder him, and that is before the big reveal. I mean it is worth noting that once Marcus is revealed he manages to make it into the inner sanctum of Skynet HQ on foot. Not only that, but he somehow manages to end up at the exact right room where there is a set of visual displays for him to interact with an a surgical setup to rebuild his damaged flesh (why did it do this?). Marcus didn't just stumble in there, he was led in there. And Skynet drat well knew that he wasn't deactivating the base turrets for a lark. It knows exactly where conner is because right before the terminator reveal you have Conner checking his GPS which shows that he is right in front of the coordinates that Marcus sent him for Kyle Reese. But what is on the other side of that door? A terminator. Skynet could have sent John Conner anywhere it wanted on the base because it was providing him the loving directions he was following. Frankly the weirdest thing about the skynet you see in the film is that it constantly uses the Royal we and talks about itself in the third person.
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Dec 23, 2014 08:17
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Doesn't everything involving time travel have to involve a closed loop? Wouldn't the present/future change instantly when the T1000 is sent back, not stay as it was before for long enough to reprogram a T800 and send it back? If the past has been changed the present has been changed for however long it is between the past and now. Unless the events in the past always caused the present to happen exactly as it is now thus the changes the T1000 made in the past lead a present where the resistance reprogram and sends a T800 back.
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Dec 23, 2014 08:20
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ReV VAdAUL posted:Doesn't everything involving time travel have to involve a closed loop? Wouldn't the present/future change instantly when the T1000 is sent back, not stay as it was before for long enough to reprogram a T800 and send it back? If the past has been changed the present has been changed for however long it is between the past and now. Unless the events in the past always caused the present to happen exactly as it is now thus the changes the T1000 made in the past lead a present where the resistance reprogram and sends a T800 back. The idea is that every choice creates an alternate timeline so by changing the choice, you make a different timeline. This of course only applies if you believe that all of your alternate versions are really "you", because from the perspective of Skynet (the one that sent the Terminator back in time) nothing would have changed.
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Dec 23, 2014 08:25
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Caros posted:The perfect infiltration unit right up until someone bothers to run a metal detector across him or he walks through a magnetic (wtf) minefield. You misunderstand: revealing that Marcus is mechanical actually makes him a better infiltrator. He can honestly say, under interrogation, that he has no idea what he is, that he only wants to help, etc. You think John Connor's going to pass up a chance to talk with this guy? He's super-strong so that he can withstand Skynet's attacks on him, while looking vulnerable enough to gain sympathy. Marcus' face doesn't show up on Skynet's biometrics software, which means Skynet intentionally deleted his face from its own memory. It can only recognize him by scanning his robot parts. The only thing known for certain about Skynet's control over Marcus is that he has a pre-programmed instinct to return 'home' and upload his knowledge there. That's why there's that space set up for him. Otherwise, he's right: if he wanted to kill Kyle Reese, he could have long ago.
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Dec 23, 2014 08:31
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Terminator VS Dinosaurs with Arnie as the voice of the T-REX. "I'll be back...in 65 million years" - struggles hopelessly to lift up sunglasses with those tiny dino arms.
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Dec 23, 2014 09:08
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Senor Tron posted:Terminator VS Dinosaurs with Arnie as the voice of the T-REX. I'm sorry this wasn't vaguely talked about on any dvd or random angelfire page on the internet so you are lying.
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Dec 23, 2014 17:22
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Tenzarin posted:I'm sorry this wasn't vaguely talked about on any dvd or random angelfire page on the internet so you are lying. You're an idiot. You know that right?
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Dec 23, 2014 19:52
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The guy saw me post (rightly) in the gbs terminator thread about the T-800 and T-1000 being sent back at the same time and tried to claim it was fan fiction so he just dragged it here.
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Dec 23, 2014 21:02
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Something Awful Forums poster Tenzarin is such dumb fanfiction; he should get outta here.
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Dec 23, 2014 21:04
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Watching the trailer for GENESYS I noticed something. It looks like Kyle is still sent back to 1984 judging but the cop car that stops at the alley. Then we jump to the observatory where the original T-800 lands and the Older looking T-800 shows up. Note his hair color and length. Then a bit later in the trailer we see Sarah driving a school bus (on the Golden Gate Bridge?) and she's crashing into modern cars (I see a Fiat 500) left and right. Finally, in the last scene of the trailer, Old T-800 now has long white hair. So I'm just speculating here but it looks like there may be a forward time jump? Kind of like in the pilot for TSCC? Did anyone else notice this stuff?
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Dec 25, 2014 06:43
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Yep! I'm thinking they (Sarah and Kyle) take a time jump to modern times and leave the T800 in the past. Then he jumps into a helicopter.
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Dec 25, 2014 06:56
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It looks like Genesys is going to be a crazy mashup of T1 and T2, which I'm okay with. They found Asian Robert Patrick to play the T-1000, and I'm just glad that Arnold gets to do one more Terminator movie while he still can. It would have been a crime against humanity for him to return to movies without doing so. I just wish the casting for future John was different. We're living in the age of sequels, so it makes sense for every famous actor to go back to their roots and reprise the roles that gave them fame in the first place. I am personally pretty excited for Bill and Ted 3: Bill a Ted-geance.
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Dec 25, 2014 07:02
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poonchasta posted:We're living in the age of sequels, so it makes sense for every famous actor to go back to their roots and reprise the roles that gave them fame in the first place. I am personally pretty excited for Bill and Ted 3: Bill a Ted-geance. Is this actually happening? It's been in similar situations to Ghostbusters 3 for the past ten years at least. The basic premise of then having to solve the mystery of them being thirty years older but somehow not ushering in the golden age of humanity with their music as seen in the future of the first film was rad.
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Dec 25, 2014 07:18
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I loved T3, and like the OP I really appreciated the ending throwing out the "No Fate" theme. To me that makes more sense when you look at the Terminator franchise from a real world perspective. Terminator is a story that's likely going to remain in the public zeitgeist for a long time to come, resurfacing every so often with new material. That means Judgement Day will never be stopped. It would end the story. T3 acknowledged this (knowingly or otherwise) and threw out that tired plot line. It's silly that nearly every piece of Terminator media is about stopping Judgement Day when you, the viewer, know drat good and well that it won't happen. By establishing that there is in fact set events that can only be slightly changed but not entirely avoided you can focus more on the journey and alleviate many of the issues time travel films face and also open up new plot lines other than multiple films and a tv show dedicated to everyone failing hilariously to stop Skynet. Maybe I'm alone in this sentiment, but it bugs me when films and tv shows with already well known and established stories try and pretend we don't know how it's going to end. Everyone who cares knows that Conner will live, Skynet will rise, and there will be time travel fuckery. Embrace it and tell a compelling story within' those parameters. On that note, this is also where Salvation dropped the ball. Salvation's plot made little sense to begin with, but it's chief error was in being absolutely worthless in terms of adding anything to the overall story. It was the story of how Conner finds Kyle Reese, but plays out more like a side quest that nobody asked for. Other than Conner and Reese meeting, the overall plot has no consequence on the greater Terminator mythos. It should have gone the logical route of showing the end of the war with the Resistance defeating Skynet and Reese being sent back in time. Instead we got Conner's Day Out and nothing whatsoever has changed from opening to credits except that now Conner has Reese with him. No one needed that story to be told. It doesn't matter how Conner met Reese. Now, if they had stuck with the original ending then Salvation would have had something to add to the franchise. Had Conner been killed and Marcus taken his skin, it would have turned the entire franchise on it's head. Then we'd have the knowledge that it was a self-aware Terminator that led the Resistance to victory, and a Terminator that facilitated John's existence and has been protecting him in the past, and it was a Terminator that dedicated its life to ending Skynet's existence, and thus its own existence as well. Which would have opened up a whole slew of philosophical themes and time travel mindfucks that nerds could argue about for decades to come. Instead we got a film that almost nobody even remembers. But that's just, like, my opinion maaan.
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Dec 25, 2014 08:41
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Is it wrong that I finally watched the Genisys (wtf is with dumb spelling of poo poo nowadays) trailer and I am actually a little hyped about it? 'Crazy mashup of Terminator and T2' seems to be exactly what they're going for, and I'm always a sucker for alternate-timeline stuff. Still kind of invalidates the T1 closed loop paradigm, but if they run with the T2 'fate is what we make it' theme (and hopefully don't acknowledge t3/salvation at all) it might actually be good?
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Dec 25, 2014 12:12
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Rhyno posted:Watching the trailer for GENESYS I noticed something. It looks like Kyle is still sent back to 1984 judging but the cop car that stops at the alley. Then we jump to the observatory where the original T-800 lands and the Older looking T-800 shows up. Note his hair color and length. Supposedly an Arnold model T-800 was sent back to when Sarah Connor was a little girl, and has raised her and been a "father figure" for her since then. You can see this here...  Also, the skin on the terminators age like normal human skin does, which would explain why the T-800 sent back to the 1970s now looks like a 67-year-old man. quote:So I'm just speculating here but it looks like there may be a forward time jump? Kind of like in the pilot for TSCC? Did anyone else notice this stuff?  It looks kind of unpolished, so it's possibly one built by the Resistance or Sarah? So I would also assume that there will be some additional time-jumping.
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Dec 25, 2014 21:37
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Esroc posted:Judgement Day will never be stopped. It would end the story. (Please do it right.)
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Dec 25, 2014 21:44
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I think if I recall Arnolds hair is brown early in the trailer but grey later. Id imagine they jump ahead in time at some points. EDIT gently caress. Beaten. Like a female terminator.
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Dec 25, 2014 21:53
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Gatts posted:I think if I recall Arnolds hair is brown early in the trailer but grey later. Id imagine they jump ahead in time at some points. After it was pointed out I did notice the second TDC scene that appears to have been built in a sewer/basement/bunker. And since we see a Terminator carrying who we can assume to be a young Sarah it would appear that that a T-800 was sent back to her childhood and has aged in real time since then. Query, since a Terminator with living skin can travel in time, couldn't the Resistance fill a few thumb drives with future tech and have Kyle swallow those before he's sent back?
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Dec 25, 2014 23:31
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Rhyno posted:After it was pointed out I did notice the second TDC scene that appears to have been built in a sewer/basement/bunker. And since we see a Terminator carrying who we can assume to be a young Sarah it would appear that that a T-800 was sent back to her childhood and has aged in real time since then. Sending plans for future tech to the past could have far reaching consequences no one could ever plan for, up to and including having Skynet be created even earlier. Hell, just sending the Terminator back in the first film caused Skynet to be created sooner than in the original unaltered timeline (if I'm remembering correctly, feel free to correct me if not). I would imagine any halfway intelligent person would want to avoid that if at all possible. Which also just goes back to my point in my previous post. "No fate" is bullshit and Skynet will always be created, Judgement Day will always happen. Stop having the Conners try and stop it and instead focus on surviving it like T3 attempted to do. Esroc fucked around with this message at 23:42 on Dec 25, 2014 |
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Dec 25, 2014 23:38
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Esroc posted:Sending plans for future tech to the past could have far reaching consequences no one could ever plan for, up to and including having Skynet be created even earlier. Hell, just sending the Terminator back in the first film caused Skynet to be created sooner than in the original unaltered timeline (if I'm remembering correctly, feel free to correct me if not). I would imagine any halfway intelligent person would want to avoid that if at all possible. In the series they sent a bunch of guys back in time who built a plasma rifle (in the 40 watt range?) and a TDC in the bank vault. And it seems pretty obvious that there's a time machine in 1984 as seen in the trailer. Since there's already Terminator tech in the past sending more powerful weapons back would probably have little effect.
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Dec 25, 2014 23:48
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Rhyno posted:In the series they sent a bunch of guys back in time who built a plasma rifle (in the 40 watt range?) and a TDC in the bank vault. And it seems pretty obvious that there's a time machine in 1984 as seen in the trailer. Since there's already Terminator tech in the past sending more powerful weapons back would probably have little effect. Oh yeah, I forgot about that. But all that just makes the Resistance kind of dumb since their laissez faire attitude about sending advanced tech to the past would likely contribute to the creation of Skynet in the first place. All it would take is for someone to drop a power cell or computerized communication device and someone else pick it up and sell it to any company or government to completely change the course of technology for decades. But of course that just opens up debate over the Resistances hatred of technology despite using it all the drat time. They even capture and use their own Terminators!
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Dec 25, 2014 23:57
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