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life is killing me
Oct 28, 2007

Galaga Galaxian posted:

If it makes you feel better, you wouldn't have to buy a whole new ship and fly around and get it outfitted. When your ship gets destroyed you're presented with a menu where you can pay ~10% of the ship's value to get an exact copy of it (cargo is not covered). If you can't afford that it offers a loan of up to 200,000 credits, giving you your ship back and 1,000 cr. It then repays this loan by skimming 10% of any profits you make until the loan is paid back.

If, despite the loan offer, you still cannot afford to replace your ship, the ship's components are line itemized so if you're just barely over the limit you could potentially choose to not get certain parts back in order to reduce the insurance payment. Plus your starting sidewinder is "free" (On loan from the Pilot's federation) so it wouldn't even count the value of the hull (And any loaned starter equipment you might still have) in the insurance costs.

Basically, your starter sidewinder is exceptionally cheap to replace, even with some modest upgrades.

Yeah, I have already lost one sidewinder to a pirate interdiction. This second one is the upgraded one.

But, it is good to know that I could take out a loan and it will take ~10% of my profits to pay it off.

Galaga Galaxian posted:

Eravate (you started in LHS 3447, right?) actually has some light trade opportunities for you (though I admit they might've been run into the ground). That system, IIRC, has two Industrial stations and an agricultural station. To earn some money right after resetting my save in late gamma, I ran coffee/tea from the agri-station to one of the industrial stations for about 400-500cr a ton profit and brought back power converters to the agri-station for about ~300cr/ton profit.

Good chance this has been run into the ground since that system is right next to a starting zone, even when I did it there were a few others running the same goods. Still, with the recent market fixes/tweaks it might be decent.

I'll check it out. I hadn't really thought about trading because I kept looking at the missions, reading them, and deciding not to do them because they were talking about goods that I had no idea where to get them and if I'd be able to haul them.

life is killing me fucked around with this message at 18:01 on Dec 23, 2014

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evilolive
Aug 13, 2014

babies havin rabies posted:

I have to agree with this. The community in this game, like most games, is terrible about knowing what makes a good game and seems collectively all too OK with pushing the developers towards feature creep Hell. Elite: Dangerous is easily the best game of its genre released in years, and it isn't an unbearable poopsock MMO or a make-believe game/crowdfunding scam that is probably never coming out, either. The core mechanics are strong and very well done, and adding depth to those core mechanics and the political/economic simulation is what should be focused on, at least in my opinion.

Who the hell wants to deal with another set of keyboard bindings to deal with some awkward and silly FPS walkaround or boarding mini-game? Who actually wants to drive a literal planet-side truck in a game partially about space-trucking? Planetary landings sound OK but can be easily kept within the ship. Still, none of these things add any real depth to the game and sound like they will take up a lot of man-hours.

I agree with this. You don't need silly mechanics like walking in the space station or some silly FPS. Economics, business, politics and war should be where the focus is. More dynamic input on the economy from the actions of players, influencing politics and I think it really needs a much stronger mission storyline for each of the factions. It feels very random and souless. That's what you get with procedural generation, so imo they need to open it up more to the influence of the players. It should not be easy to do something like sway the politics of a system, but it should be possible. Additionally as I said yesterday, I think you should be able to take over a system in some fashion.

Galaga Galaxian
Apr 23, 2009

What a childish tactic!
Don't you think you should put more thought into your battleplan?!


Zigmidge posted:

How long does it take to earn the best combat or merchant rig and what do you do with them once you have them?

Legit question, I'm not being smarmy but I'm not touching this poo poo if the mid to endgame is 'numbers go up'.

The "best" (as in biggest) combat ship, the Anaconda Corvette, is 156 Million credits (I'm probably wrong, but its a LOT). I can't remember what the Lakon Type-9 Freighter is pricewise, but I'm sure its over 100 million.

If you must have the biggest and "bestest" ship ASAP, then prepare for an absolutely miserable grind, or better yet, don't play. This game is a sandbox, you're supposed to set your own goals. Unfortunately too many people seem to be focused on the goal of "biggest bestest ship".

Third World Reagan
May 19, 2008

Imagine four 'mechs waiting in a queue. Time works the same way.

Zigmidge posted:

How long does it take to earn the best combat or merchant rig and what do you do with them once you have them?

Legit question, I'm not being smarmy but I'm not touching this poo poo if the mid to endgame is 'numbers go up'.

Best is kinda a weird word.

You want the most maneuverable fighter? that is an eagle. Those are cheap. Basic fittings are cheap. We are talking like less than a day of gameplay.

Fit that thing out to medium? Maybe a day or two.

Fit that thing out to A's? The best you can get? Maybe four days or a week. Depends on your income.

The larger ships just cost more to fit in general since the things they use are larger. Merchant rigs get pretty big and there is only one fighter larger than the eagle. There are some multi-purpose ships you could call fighters though.

Nostalgia4Infinity
Feb 27, 2007

10,000 YEARS WASN'T ENOUGH LURKING

evilolive posted:

I agree with this. You don't need silly mechanics like walking in the space station or some silly FPS. Economics, business, politics and war should be where the focus is. More dynamic input on the economy from the actions of players, influencing politics and I think it really needs a much stronger mission storyline for each of the factions. It feels very random and souless. That's what you get with procedural generation, so imo they need to open it up more to the influence of the players. It should not be easy to do something like sway the politics of a system, but it should be possible. Additionally as I said yesterday, I think you should be able to take over a system in some fashion.

You taking over a system is never going to happen so you might was well give on that nonsense (how would you even track it in a game where playing solo is a thing)?

Gorson
Aug 29, 2014

Gasoline posted:

Just look at what happened in Eve with walking in stations.
Absolutely nothing that was worth the dev time.

...and X:Rebirth, and Star Citizen if it ever comes out. It adds nothing.

There are a couple things I would like to see brought over from X3, namely the ability to EVA and derelict ships spread across the galaxy that could be claimed. Both of these would be easy to implement, just make a simple humanoid model with basic interface and controls exactly like the ship. I don't need a fancy scripted sequence of me getting out of my chair, opening a hatch, and hopping out.

evilolive
Aug 13, 2014

Galaga Galaxian posted:

The "best" (as in biggest) combat ship, the Anaconda Corvette, is 156 Million credits (I'm probably wrong, but its a LOT). I can't remember what the Lakon Type-9 Freighter is pricewise, but I'm sure its over 100 million.

If you must have the biggest and "bestest" ship ASAP, then prepare for an absolutely miserable grind, or better yet, don't play. This game is a sandbox, you're supposed to set your own goals. Unfortunately too many people seem to be focused on the goal of "biggest bestest ship".

Please don't take this as me being smug because it isn't, but what else do you expect people to do? You really can't go very far without at least making some money to upgrade your ship. Besides that goal of upgrading ad nauseum, what else do you expect people to do? All the "jobs" right now, bounty hunting, mining, exploring require decent money to get to the point where you can participate and they have no goal in and of themselves. The goal in the game is really not really defined in any sort of fashion. Sandbox, yes, but there has to be some circulation, some force that drives that player action. I don't know what the solution is, but the goal of just to make more credits and having fun doesn't seem to be enough.

Nostalgia4Infinity posted:

You taking over a system is never going to happen so you might was well give on that nonsense (how would you even track it in a game where playing solo is a thing)?

I. Agree. Completely. But there has to be some middle ground between a player owning something and not having any sort of control or influence in any meaningful way to a player or collective or players. And is "solo" really even a thing? Didn't they ditch the "offline mode" before release? How is that mode any different from open play? Market prices are the same?

evilolive fucked around with this message at 18:10 on Dec 23, 2014

Pierson
Oct 31, 2004



College Slice
Speaking of the universe being huge and etc, etc: How much of the game is actually populated? If I wanted to go on a huge wanderjahr across the galaxy would there still be stations and people out there? Or would I eventually leave inhabited space and start traveling through endless nothing? Not that that wouldn't be appealing in it's own way.

turn it up TURN ME ON
Mar 19, 2012

In the Grim Darkness of the Future, there is only war.

...and delicious ice cream.

evilolive posted:

Please don't take this as me being smug because it isn't, but what else do you expect people to do? You really can't go very far without at least making some money to upgrade your ship. Besides that goal of upgrading ad nauseum, what else do you expect people to do? All the "jobs" right now, bounty hunting, mining, exploring require decent money to get to the point where you can participate and they have no goal in and of themselves. The goal in the game is really not really defined in any sort of fashion. Sandbox, yes, but there has to be some circulation, some force that drives that player action. I don't know what the solution is, but the goal of just to make more credits and having fun doesn't seem to be enough.


I. Agree. Completely. But there has to be some middle ground between a player owning something and not having any sort of control or influence in any meaningful way to a player or collective or players.

I find doing those jobs to be fun, the goal is the journey. If I ever make it into an Anaconda, I'll probably stop playing or start over.

Third World Reagan
May 19, 2008

Imagine four 'mechs waiting in a queue. Time works the same way.
Hey nerd, play a game because it is fun. Not so you can have a nerd kingdom.

Raziel Eldwor
Mar 23, 2013

Zigmidge posted:

How long does it take to earn the best combat or merchant rig and what do you do with them once you have them?

Legit question, I'm not being smarmy but I'm not touching this poo poo if the mid to endgame is 'numbers go up'.

The early, mid, and late game is mostly "numbers go up."

The game is basically a fighting, trading, exploring, and mining sandbox. There are some light story elements that show up as news posts every day or so. Sometimes these create events where two sides will be fighting and you can join them.

I believe Scott Manley described the game as, "A mile wide and an inch deep." That's probably they best description I've heard. Still, I've been playing for a week and I'm not tired of it.

turn it up TURN ME ON
Mar 19, 2012

In the Grim Darkness of the Future, there is only war.

...and delicious ice cream.

Raziel Eldwor posted:

The early, mid, and late game is mostly "numbers go up."

The game is basically a fighting, trading, exploring, and mining sandbox. There are some light story elements that show up as news posts every day or so. Sometimes these create events where two sides will be fighting and you can join them.

I believe Scott Manley described the game as, "A mile wide and an inch deep." That's probably they best description I've heard. Still, I've been playing for a week and I'm not tired of it.

There's also the idea that eventually our actions can affect the news stories. Influencing civil wars or whatever.

Ghost of Eazy E
Feb 4, 2013

WANTED: BREAD OR ALIVE


I personally can't wait to go on a long trade run knowing that there is a station up ahead with a shower and a bed and a jukebox inside that plays a truckers lullaby. Grab a steak and a beer. Play some good ole country music. Shoot some pool and some bull. Then it's off to bed for me.

GlyphGryph
Jun 23, 2013

Down came the glitches and burned us in ditches and we slept after eating our dead.

life is killing me posted:

How does cartography work? Do I need a discovery scanner to actually be able to sell maps or what?

You can sell map data in any system 20 or more lightyears from where you got it, and requires nothing but visiting a station with a cartographics uplink. Which I think all stations and outposts do that I've seen.

To get the data, tools make it easier. You can make money for the following things:
Discovering a body in space, which marks it as an 'unknown', but checking your system map will let you eyeball it's details:
- By getting close enough that your proximity sensors identify it (note: this requires you to get EXCEPTIONALLY close, but I made quite a bit of money doing this before I realized I had a discovery scanner and how they worked)
- By firing your discovery scanner as if it were a weapon. Hold down the button, and all bodies in range will be identified. Range depends on the level of the scanner.

You can use parallax (move quickly, and identify points that are moving relative to the background - that means they are close enough to fly to) to identify objects outside your discovery range so you can get close enough to them to identify by proximity or succeed with the discovery scanner. You can discover stars, planets, moons, and asteroid clusters.

Scanning a discovered body, which identifies it and gives it a name.
- You can do a basic scan by targeting it while close enough and staring at it until you succeed. No button presses needed.
- Detailed Surface Scanners will give you more info, and that info is sensibly worth more than the basic scan info. Worth buying.

If you're using parralax, this can actually provide you with info on how many planets are left to discover as well - the name of the planet includes it position around the sun, and I've often learned I missed a couple planets thanks to it.

Money made depends on:
The type of body (earthlike worlds seem to be the jackpot here)
The level of detail of scan conducted (discovered, basic scan, surface scan, and seems like more of these are incoming)

GlyphGryph
Jun 23, 2013

Down came the glitches and burned us in ditches and we slept after eating our dead.

SquadronROE posted:

I find doing those jobs to be fun, the goal is the journey. If I ever make it into an Anaconda, I'll probably stop playing or start over.

If I ever make it to an Anaconda, I'll get to have some fun wrecking heads in combat zones or destroying system authorities until I can no longer afford an Anaconda. Problem solved. Much more fun than resetting! If you ever get that much spare money and just can't stomache the thought of having the "best" (most expensive money sink) ship in the game, feel free to dump a hold full of platinum for me so I can spend a couple days loving up the Feds in their most recent warzone.

life is killing me
Oct 28, 2007

GlyphGryph posted:

You can sell map data in any system 20 or more lightyears from where you got it, and requires nothing but visiting a station with a cartographics uplink. Which I think all stations and outposts do that I've seen.

To get the data, tools make it easier. You can make money for the following things:
Discovering a body in space, which marks it as an 'unknown', but checking your system map will let you eyeball it's details:
- By getting close enough that your proximity sensors identify it (note: this requires you to get EXCEPTIONALLY close, but I made quite a bit of money doing this before I realized I had a discovery scanner and how they worked)
- By firing your discovery scanner as if it were a weapon. Hold down the button, and all bodies in range will be identified. Range depends on the level of the scanner.

You can use parallax (move quickly, and identify points that are moving relative to the background - that means they are close enough to fly to) to identify objects outside your discovery range so you can get close enough to them to identify by proximity or succeed with the discovery scanner. You can discover stars, planets, moons, and asteroid clusters.

Scanning a discovered body, which identifies it and gives it a name.
- You can do a basic scan by targeting it while close enough and staring at it until you succeed. No button presses needed.
- Detailed Surface Scanners will give you more info, and that info is sensibly worth more than the basic scan info. Worth buying.

If you're using parralax, this can actually provide you with info on how many planets are left to discover as well - the name of the planet includes it position around the sun, and I've often learned I missed a couple planets thanks to it.

Money made depends on:
The type of body (earthlike worlds seem to be the jackpot here)
The level of detail of scan conducted (discovered, basic scan, surface scan, and seems like more of these are incoming)

So is a discovery scanner an aftermarket deal? Like, I need to dock in a station that maybe has one in the outfitting store and and buy and equip it to use it?

Libluini
May 18, 2012

I gravitated towards the Greens, eventually even joining the party itself.

The Linke is a party I grudgingly accept exists, but I've learned enough about DDR-history I can't bring myself to trust a party that was once the SED, a party leading the corrupt state apparatus ...
Grimey Drawer

GlyphGryph posted:

I doubt he has a scanner with that range. He'd have to find them by parralex, and then scan once he got closer. Basic Scanner from the star really only reaches out as far as Earth - most planets are further out than that.

In this case he doesn't even need to do this: Stations are always around at least something: Planets, moons or asteroid belts. Stations are automatically detected, those things they orbit not. So you just have to supercruise to them and occasionally fire off your scanner to find something. As soon as you get close enough to the station, you can at least detect what the station is orbiting.

GlyphGryph
Jun 23, 2013

Down came the glitches and burned us in ditches and we slept after eating our dead.

Libluini posted:

In this case he doesn't even need to do this: Stations are always around at least something: Planets, moons or asteroid belts. Stations are automatically detected, those things they orbit not. So you just have to supercruise to them and occasionally fire off your scanner to find something. As soon as you get close enough to the station, you can at least detect what the station is orbiting.

Exploring systems that already have stations in them tend to be garbage money though, since the value of a system seems to go down the more people have scanned it. And it will only find you a few planets anyway - but it is useful to go out to the furthest station and scan, so you can see how many planets are in the system to find!


life is killing me posted:

So is a discovery scanner an aftermarket deal? Like, I need to dock in a station that maybe has one in the outfitting store and and buy and equip it to use it?

I think every ship in the game starts with one. You will need to bind it to a fire group though.

life is killing me
Oct 28, 2007

Ghost of Eazy E posted:

I personally can't wait to go on a long trade run knowing that there is a station up ahead with a shower and a bed and a jukebox inside that plays a truckers lullaby. Grab a steak and a beer. Play some good ole country music. Shoot some pool and some bull. Then it's off to bed for me.

It'd be totally awesome to walk thru a station and there's a bunch of big fat hairy dudes at the space bar with their bellies hanging out, the space-juke box is playing some spacy country music, everyone smoking a cigarette, space-trucker parts being sold in the shop.

Then, you hear the jackpot: "Trucker Motherfer Jones, shower 19 is ready."

God, I cannot wait for them to include walking around in stations :allears:




Okay so if I fire it off when I'm on a black box run or something, I can actually find the thing in space without having to fly around dangerously close to the sun looking for a USS? Will a discovery scanner find those?

evilolive
Aug 13, 2014

Third World Reggin posted:

Hey nerd, play a game because it is fun. Not so you can have a nerd kingdom.

I'm alive, in life the adage of "It's the journey not the destination" rings true. In Elite, I want to have fun, but I also want to build my nerd kingdom. I can't have one star in 200m? lol

SquadronROE posted:

I find doing those jobs to be fun, the goal is the journey. If I ever make it into an Anaconda, I'll probably stop playing or start over.

I do to some extent agree with you because I played loving EV Nova for years and it's similar (albeit 2D). But Elite has even less due to a mission storyline which is shall we say, not compelling, or even there? Let me ask, do you think there's enough core gameplay as is to have a compelling and long lasting game? It seems 70% done to me. I really like the mechanics and I think the fundamentals are strong, but there is *something*, whether that is group owned space or something completely different, that I feel needs to be added.

I'm gonna leave it after this, but it seems that EVE only works as a sandbox because you allow the players to control all lines of production from extraction to manufacturing. Now perhaps it's too hosed now, but the reason it kinda works is because it allows complete freedom and there's no shortcut to it by just being able to buy it from an NPC. Elite has this sort of sandbox where there's no driving content to speak of, but there's also no control. There's a mix of classes of stations so you can generally buy what you're looking for, whether it's a ship or a gun somewhere close. Its core gameplay is trading right now, but there's very little control with the economy (we'll have to see how it is after a few months). I just think something will need to be done, added, or whatever. So that's my point, I think I've made it and I'm done with it, no need to beat a dead horse, but I'm curious about your answer to my question above.

Jacobeus
Jan 9, 2013
So my question is, does exploration data gathered in solo mode affect what data is available in online mode? Also, is there a better way to determine which systems are unexplored other than by checking each one in the galaxy map for available system data?

Libluini
May 18, 2012

I gravitated towards the Greens, eventually even joining the party itself.

The Linke is a party I grudgingly accept exists, but I've learned enough about DDR-history I can't bring myself to trust a party that was once the SED, a party leading the corrupt state apparatus ...
Grimey Drawer

GlyphGryph posted:

Exploring systems that already have stations in them tend to be garbage money though, since the value of a system seems to go down the more people have scanned it.

Not always. Over here in my neck of the woods I made 20k by just scanning down the first planet, ignoring everything else ( I was in a hurry). It depends on were the system is: Out there in the border regions there are many station-systems literally untouched by human players.

mlmp08
Jul 11, 2004

Prepare for my priapic projectile's exalted penetration
Nap Ghost

life is killing me posted:

I don't play enough or I'm doing the wrong things to make money because I've never had more than 20k credits at one time, and sometimes I go into a station and there are no missions. 11m credits is ridiculous

Once I figured out what the hell was going on, I made 2 million credits in two evenings of maybe 3 hours per session. Now if I want to, I can make about 500,000 credits per hour, doing things somewhat inefficiently, but the trick is that once I had 2 million credits, I had enough to leave my space trader vessel in dock while I tool around in my million dollar Viper fighter doing fun poo poo with 500,000 sitting around in a rainy day/upgrade fund. I'm very glad that once I had a little chunk of money, I had a fun ship where I can gently caress about for hours and maybe not make much money, but really enjoy my time.

This probably already exists in this thread, but here's a guide:

Space-trucking for noobs who don't give a poo poo about space-trucking, but need some starter money so they can get a pewpew ship

If you're so inclined, the safest way to do this is solo play so that you don't get unlucky and run across some human player who decides to ruin your day. I do open play now, but if you want a total no-bullshit way to make money, just hop into solo or private play for a bit.

Optional Step 1: Set up your other monitor or TV with youtube or netflix or whatever or get some good music going.

Step 1:
Get enough mission or bounty money to get a Hauler (gross) or an Adder (terrible visibility, but great rares trader potential). Your first trip will be, by far, the most painful, because your ship will likely suck and need a bunch of upgrades and the trip will take a while. Within one to two trips, you can cut the time of travel down to about 1/3 to 1/2 as long, because you will have a far more capable ship. The goal here is not to fight. Ever. It's a waste of your time and you're in a crappy ship that can't fight. Always run. Pay attention so you don't get interdicted. Strip off all your guns, you don't need them. If you're feeling lucky, strip your shields, but I don't like to take that risk. Your ship is going to be good at hauling cargo and flying far and that's it. If you're doing an upgrade and it doesn't give you added jump range, cargo, or a fuel scoop, you're needlessly extending the grind.

We're going to be selling rare goods. People will bitch and moan and whine about how rare goods got nerfed and now they suck. Those people are just mad that they can't fill up their space-stratotanker-v5-mega-yacht with hundreds of tons of rare goods and make millions of credits in 30 minutes. Rare goods still own for money-making; it's incredibly fast for quickly getting out of a Sidewinder or Freagle and into a better ship with a pile of upgrades. Tricked out the way it is now, my lowly Adder that I left in storage can make a rare goods run in 10 hyperspace jumps. Get a fuel scoop as soon as you can! It will make it so you don't have to take the very time-consuming step of docking somewhere mid-travels. Don't ever jump if you don't know for a fact that you can scoop the next star if you are low on fuel! Sadness will ensue!

Step 2:
Use this to plan your travel routes. It is the best way to plan your travel, because the in-game planner has limitations and can be slow, so it will say you can't get somewhere when you totally can. https://cmdr.club/routes/
Use this to find out where to buy rare goods and where to sell them. https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1haUVaFIxFq5IPqZugJ8cfCEqBrZvFFzcA-uXB4pTfW4/htmlview?pli=1&sle=true#gid=0

Rare goods are worth more when you are far from where you bought them (140-160 LY). Go to the Leesti system, George Lucas station. It has a really robust station with a shipyard, good outfitting, and two different rare goods that spawn! I have never, ever been unable to fill my 16 ton hold when showing up at Leesti. Then select a station with rare goods that's 160ish LY away that you'll take your Leesti goods to. I usually go to 39 Tauri, because it's at the top of the list and they sell super fancy wind chimes, which I think is funny. If there's not enough of a good available at the next station to fill your hold, either don't worry about it and go back to Leesti or, if you must, go to a nearby system to top off. You can plan on making a profit of maybe 15K credits per ton.

In my first run or two, I dumped all the money back into my Adder until it could jump something like 31 light years unladen and 22 lightyears fully laden with cargo. It makes the trip stupid fast when just running back and forth. After doing that for a couple hours, I mothballed my Adder, which was worth maybe 350-500K credits, then bought a Viper and dumped like 1 million of upgrades into it, so I could go pewpew for pennies, but have a ton of fun! It will still take days of rare good grinding if you MUST have an Anaconda or some other big, fancy ship with all the bells and whistles, but if you want to quickly be in an early to mid-level ship with a fair bit of upgrades, putting in a few hours of rare goods trading, efficiently, is awesome.

Step 3:
Use the money to do something more fun than space trucking.

I probably jacked something up in there, but the fundamentals are good. More experienced space truckers feel free to add corrections/notes.

mlmp08 fucked around with this message at 18:36 on Dec 23, 2014

Third World Reagan
May 19, 2008

Imagine four 'mechs waiting in a queue. Time works the same way.

evilolive posted:

I'm alive, in life the adage of "It's the journey not the destination" rings true. In Elite, I want to have fun, but I also want to build my nerd kingdom. I can't have one star in 200m? lol

Just pretend when no one wants to be near you that you are in your kingdom.

life is killing me
Oct 28, 2007

evilolive posted:

I'm alive, in life the adage of "It's the journey not the destination" rings true. In Elite, I want to have fun, but I also want to build my nerd kingdom. I can't have one star in 200m? lol


I do to some extent agree with you because I played loving EV Nova for years and it's similar (albeit 2D). But Elite has even less due to a mission storyline which is shall we say, not compelling, or even there? Let me ask, do you think there's enough core gameplay as is to have a compelling and long lasting game? It seems 70% done to me. I really like the mechanics and I think the fundamentals are strong, but there is *something*, whether that is group owned space or something completely different, that I feel needs to be added.

I'm gonna leave it after this, but it seems that EVE only works as a sandbox because you allow the players to control all lines of production from extraction to manufacturing. Now perhaps it's too hosed now, but the reason it kinda works is because it allows complete freedom and there's no shortcut to it by just being able to buy it from an NPC. Elite has this sort of sandbox where there's no driving content to speak of, but there's also no control. There's a mix of classes of stations so you can generally buy what you're looking for, whether it's a ship or a gun somewhere close. Its core gameplay is trading right now, but there's very little control with the economy (we'll have to see how it is after a few months). I just think something will need to be done, added, or whatever. So that's my point, I think I've made it and I'm done with it, no need to beat a dead horse, but I'm curious about your answer to my question above.

That's because the game isn't technically finished. They have more features to add, but I doubt they are (and hope that they end up not being) the features you want in order to build your nerd kingdom. Not because I want it to spite you, just because the game is good the way it is, and it doesn't have to be like the biggest-selling space operas and MMOs to be fun. Every single MMO that has come out in the last decade has been the exact same as WoW, and while EVE was not, this game isn't supposed to be EVE, either. It's a multiplayer space-sim that doesn't hold your hand out the gate, and if you get bored, you quit. If not, the devs were banking on there being players like us Goons in this thread who don't need an MMO/EVE clone with features to satisfy the casual teenage gamer.

turn it up TURN ME ON
Mar 19, 2012

In the Grim Darkness of the Future, there is only war.

...and delicious ice cream.

evilolive posted:

I'm alive, in life the adage of "It's the journey not the destination" rings true. In Elite, I want to have fun, but I also want to build my nerd kingdom. I can't have one star in 200m? lol


I do to some extent agree with you because I played loving EV Nova for years and it's similar (albeit 2D). But Elite has even less due to a mission storyline which is shall we say, not compelling, or even there? Let me ask, do you think there's enough core gameplay as is to have a compelling and long lasting game? It seems 70% done to me. I really like the mechanics and I think the fundamentals are strong, but there is *something*, whether that is group owned space or something completely different, that I feel needs to be added.

I'm gonna leave it after this, but it seems that EVE only works as a sandbox because you allow the players to control all lines of production from extraction to manufacturing. Now perhaps it's too hosed now, but the reason it kinda works is because it allows complete freedom and there's no shortcut to it by just being able to buy it from an NPC. Elite has this sort of sandbox where there's no driving content to speak of, but there's also no control. There's a mix of classes of stations so you can generally buy what you're looking for, whether it's a ship or a gun somewhere close. Its core gameplay is trading right now, but there's very little control with the economy (we'll have to see how it is after a few months). I just think something will need to be done, added, or whatever. So that's my point, I think I've made it and I'm done with it, no need to beat a dead horse, but I'm curious about your answer to my question above.

I hated the complexity of EVE, even the combat didn't feel like I was flying a starship but instead firing off a system of commands. Elite feels just right, and I have fun wandering around and doing missions, scanning stars, and smuggling goods into stations where they're illegal.

Plenty of complexity for me there, and I actually feel like I'm flying a starship rather than playing an MMO. Just so happens that there's other people around me while I'm doing that. I don't care about setting up my own kingdom and controlling the life cycle of a product because if I want to do that I'll go play something else that doesn't revolve around flying a spaceship.

Toplowtech
Aug 31, 2004

Fewd posted:

Atmospheric flight has a lot of potential for fun if it gets done correctly. My most fun memory of First Encounters was speeding along the surface of Venus. It was dank, foggy, atmosphere was sickly colored and I had entirely too much speed. Hoping I get to do modern version of surface speeding.

Not sure what to think of walking around the ship and... eh, boardings? We'll see.
Amospheric flight was great in First Encounters, seamlessly flying from the surface to the next system was so fun. My favorite memory of "atmospheric" flight was the spy missions for the empire/fed, you are basically given the "photographic module" and told to fly 30km over some lovely base on the surface of some random low grav moon while dodging the air defense. All the spy missions i did basically basically involved me flying up close, 30 meters away of the middle of the buildings while shooting down eagles and ospreys as they took flight to intercept me. Must have been the best spy photos the fed/empire ever saw.

turn it up TURN ME ON
Mar 19, 2012

In the Grim Darkness of the Future, there is only war.

...and delicious ice cream.

Toplowtech posted:

Amospheric flight was great in First Encounters, seamlessly flying from the surface to the next system was so fun. My favorite memory of "atmospheric" flight was the spy mission for the empire/fed, you are basically given the "photographic module" and told to fly 30km over some lovely base on the surface of some random low grav moon while dodging the air defense. All the spy missions i did basically basically involved me flying up close, 30 meters away of the middle of the buildings while shooting down eagles and ospreys as they took flight to intercept me. Must have been the best spy photos the fed/empire ever saw.

Oh hell yeah. Planting some spy satellites in orbit or close to the surface would be a blast. Especially if they can somehow be persistent and someone else would get a mission to shoot them down.

evilolive
Aug 13, 2014

Third World Reggin posted:

Just pretend when no one wants to be near you that you are in your kingdom.

lol I like you

SquadronROE posted:

I hated the complexity of EVE, even the combat didn't feel like I was flying a starship but instead firing off a system of commands. Elite feels just right, and I have fun wandering around and doing missions, scanning stars, and smuggling goods into stations where they're illegal.

Plenty of complexity for me there, and I actually feel like I'm flying a starship rather than playing an MMO. Just so happens that there's other people around me while I'm doing that. I don't care about setting up my own kingdom and controlling the life cycle of a product because if I want to do that I'll go play something else that doesn't revolve around flying a spaceship.

That's fair, I guess I just have this feeling of wanting more because there's so much space. Good points all around, thanks for the perspective.

Ghost of Eazy E
Feb 4, 2013

WANTED: BREAD OR ALIVE


evilolive posted:

I'm alive, in life the adage of "It's the journey not the destination" rings true. In Elite, I want to have fun, but I also want to build my nerd kingdom. I can't have one star in 200m? lol

There is probably a station with your name on it. If you name is Anthony I can tell you where your station is at.

Third World Reagan
May 19, 2008

Imagine four 'mechs waiting in a queue. Time works the same way.
Goons have pretty much made a kingdom in their monkey joint.

A few friends and I are just 40 or so LY away from them and the only people who enter that place are us. We watch the traffic report.

It pretty much is our prison kingdom.

mlmp08
Jul 11, 2004

Prepare for my priapic projectile's exalted penetration
Nap Ghost
I dunno what it is, but I can't seem to get beyond Neutral with the monkey folk. I do all the jobs for them, turn in bounties to them, and still I stick at neutral after over half a dozen jobs and a pile of bounties. Maybe I keep accidentally killing or attacking a buddy of theirs when I get overzealous.

Ghost of Eazy E
Feb 4, 2013

WANTED: BREAD OR ALIVE


Third World Reggin posted:

Goons have pretty much made a kingdom in their monkey joint.

A few friends and I are just 40 or so LY away from them and the only people who enter that place are us. We watch the traffic report.

It pretty much is our prison kingdom.

Same here but we are about 200+ly away. I look at the traffic report and I know who has been through there. There is a couple others but I have never seen them. Does solo mode count on the traffic report?

turn it up TURN ME ON
Mar 19, 2012

In the Grim Darkness of the Future, there is only war.

...and delicious ice cream.
Are there any ways to strap on external fuel tanks? I want more range without having to refuel.

Rotation Confusion
Jul 13, 2012

It's harder than it looks

Concerned Citizen posted:

I do wonder why they seem so excited about walking around on your ship/planetary landings. Do they really want to go the Star Citizen route with a fraction of the development money? Why not just focus on the space combat portion that everyone bought the game for, which is still clearly unfinished?

Frontier had and canned a fairly decent looking open world foot/vehicle game a couple of years ago. The assumption is that they'll rip the logic they need out of that, put it in the Cobra engine they built for elite, and the walking around/planetary exploration/ground vehicles stuff will be a lot less development than people think.

Siets
Sep 19, 2006

by FactsAreUseless

mlmp08 posted:

Step 2:
Use this to plan your travel routes. It is the best way to plan your travel, because the in-game planner has limitations and can be slow, so it will say you can't get somewhere when you totally can. https://cmdr.club/routes/
Use this to find out where to buy rare goods and where to sell them. https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1haUVaFIxFq5IPqZugJ8cfCEqBrZvFFzcA-uXB4pTfW4/htmlview?pli=1&sle=true#gid=0

How do I read this spreadsheet? The legend isn't very well laid out to be interpretable to a newer player. Can you walk through a scenario or two on this spreadsheet where I might identify a good rare goods target, and then identify a good selling point?

Nelson Mandingo
Mar 27, 2005




SquadronROE posted:

I hated the complexity of EVE, even the combat didn't feel like I was flying a starship but instead firing off a system of commands. Elite feels just right, and I have fun wandering around and doing missions, scanning stars, and smuggling goods into stations where they're illegal.

Plenty of complexity for me there, and I actually feel like I'm flying a starship rather than playing an MMO. Just so happens that there's other people around me while I'm doing that. I don't care about setting up my own kingdom and controlling the life cycle of a product because if I want to do that I'll go play something else that doesn't revolve around flying a spaceship.

My problem with this line of thinking is, none of that has to end while player-conquerable and managed space is endless in drama, motivation, and creates a strong meta-game aspect. If people don't want to deal with the inevitable drama that this creates- they can literally turn it off and go solo mode or friends only.

Right now I'm just in an Eagle and throwing in upgrades and I quickly realized- this is all there is to the game right now. I'm getting more money to get an Asp, filling it up with quality stuff and then...that's it. It's over. There is nothing left to do but piracy I guess. Maybe I could go to the empire storyline, but then...why should I care? The characters are text-based in news reports you can see while docking in stations. That's 500 light years away. It'll take me 45 minutes to get over there. 15 or so of which is just spent on fuel scooping.

Elite: Dangerous is an outstanding early access game but if they don't expand the content quickly or appropriately I think they're gonna strangle the baby in the crib.

Rotation Confusion
Jul 13, 2012

It's harder than it looks

Zigmidge posted:

How long does it take to earn the best combat or merchant rig and what do you do with them once you have them?

Legit question, I'm not being smarmy but I'm not touching this poo poo if the mid to endgame is 'numbers go up'.

This is a sandbox game. If you need an endgame "something to do" then the game isn't for you. The point of the early and midgame phases are not "get to the endgame."

Edit: Also, if they end up adding an endgame, we have no idea about it yet, and they haven't spoken about it at all. Frontier did a pretty good job iterating through the things that mattered the most, so I'd expect them to start thinking about endgame ~6 months before 2 hours a day players might hit end-game ships like the Anaconda. That means they have at least a year.

Rotation Confusion fucked around with this message at 19:07 on Dec 23, 2014

Drinkfist
Aug 2, 2005



Pierson posted:

My last question got lost way back before discovery chat, which is more important to killing dude fast: Big lasers for chewing up shields or big cannons for chewing up armour?

Nien posted:

Oh fuckin sweet jesus the autists are out in style. Manual? You read a loving manual?

WarLocke posted:

The words "You actually read manuals?" were posted in this thread. :cripes:

Ak Gara posted:

loving kids these days.

Back in my day Elite came with a manual thick enough to beat someone to death with, the stories of life on the frontier book, a gazetteer, a personal letter detailing your late relative whom recently past away and left you an Eagle and 100 space bucks, AND a full color map of loving awesome.

[edit] no one likes pdf's because you have to install something to view them.



SquadronROE posted:

These idiots are dumb with their ideas for the future of the game.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8yd-m9AR7mY

Walking around stations? Repelling boarders? Nope. Don't want that. Just give us more ship types, better missions, allow us to have influence on galactic events (by supporting an attack or station defense).

Met posted:

I was traveling 150 light years. I missed it halfway through. That's really easy to gently caress up.

I give my games a lot of leeway. I can't believe anyone who gives the game less than I do will stick around more than a couple days when they get royally screwed like that over something so easy to miss. That doesn't bode well for the long-term health of the game.

pahuyuth posted:

This game looks like a blast but I wouldn't know because I'm bad and can't get going. How bad? I can't even land my drat spaceship. I've watched the docking station tutorial 4 times, I've aligned myself with the landing platform, deployed gear, settled down right on the money and.... nothing. In the video it looks like that as soon as the craft touches down on the mark, the ship docks and the station menu pops up.

Am I missing something simple?

Met posted:

I'm flying with a full cargo of Lavian Brandy. I didn't notice I was low on fuel and jumped to a system where I could only see the star and nothing else. Can't jump out, so I looked around for possible stations, following NPCs but none led me anywhere useful.

I look online to see any solutions to this and it says there's a distress beacon to get more fuel. Great!

Apparently it was removed. The game now says I'm out of power and going to run out of Oxygen in five minutes. This whole out-of-fuel and stranded with no hope because I jumped once too far is a completely unfun mechanic. I'm not too sure I care to play again.

Third World Reggin posted:

Hey nerd, play a game because it is fun. Not so you can have a nerd kingdom.

This loving thread. You people are all loving terrible.

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turn it up TURN ME ON
Mar 19, 2012

In the Grim Darkness of the Future, there is only war.

...and delicious ice cream.
Fair. They don't have to be mutually exclusive.

I doubt I'll get bored because I only get to play for maybe 2 hours a day, with some more on the weekends. With that amount of time investment it will take me several months to save up money and get an Asp or Cobra. I don't care about the end game that much because I'm not going to get there for a long time and more than likely something else will pop up that I'll start playing before I get there.

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