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Hat Thoughts posted:Let's not, remove your link, remove your link!!!!! Re-ups are the worst thing about Youtube.
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Dec 22, 2014 06:53
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Josh Lyman posted:Re-ups are the worst thing about Youtube. But the best thing about Baltimore.
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Dec 23, 2014 17:07
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LesterGroans posted:But the best thing about Baltimore. Till Omar comes around.
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Dec 23, 2014 17:15
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Geekslinger posted:Till Omar comes around. He's the new West Side Hitman, right?
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Dec 23, 2014 17:18
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Hakkesshu posted:Eh, listening to this last episode, this whole thing strikes me as being kind of a waste of time. I never expected it to be solved, but ultimately if I look back at what I got out of listening to it, I didn't really learn anything significant, and in fact a lot about the format and Koenig's narration ended up bothering me. I agree with this for the most part, though I wouldn't call it a waste of time. While I never changed my mind on Adnan's guilt from the first episode, I still enjoyed listening.
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Dec 23, 2014 18:11
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Daikatana Ritsu posted:I agree with this for the most part, though I wouldn't call it a waste of time. While I never changed my mind on Adnan's guilt from the first episode, I still enjoyed listening. I mean, were we supposed to start off thinking he did it? The very first thing the show does is bring us on to Adnan's side by talking about how hard it is to remember how a day went from weeks back.
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Dec 23, 2014 18:31
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Zesty Mordant posted:I mean, were we supposed to start off thinking he did it? The very first thing the show does is bring us on to Adnan's side by talking about how hard it is to remember how a day went from weeks back. But then she says: quote:That's the main thing I learned from this exercise, which is no big shocker, I guess. If some significant event happened that day, you remember that, plus you remember the entire day much better. I know we talked about this not too long ago, but is there something more traumatic at that age (well, any age really) then someone you care about going missing? I missed that the first time around and in fact, only noticed it after my second listen-through the other day.
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Dec 23, 2014 18:40
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I just listened to this over the course of a rainy car trip across the midwest and enjoyed it pretty well. I think Koenig did a good job overall, but I would echo the complaint that the series ran a little long. Since Adnan basically has no story, it seems like a lot of the post-mortem discussion of the show and the "correct" order of events hinges on what Koenig and her producers repeatedly refer to as "the utility of Jay's lies", because we can maybe figure out a few most plausible scenarios if we know what Jay's lying about and why he's lying. The problem is Jay is lying about a ton of poo poo for a few different reasons. Jay seems to lie because: 1. he's a compulsive liar 2. he's minimizing his own involvement and his friends' involvement in the murder 3. he's being coached by the detectives and the state to adhere to their version of events, which may be generally correct but is obviously not correct with regard to most of the specifics. Sometimes it's obvious why he's lying. Like when he constantly says "sorry" during the taped interviews and changes his story after the detectives interject and coach him up a bit, he's lying to protect the state/cop's version of events. Other times it's less obvious why he's lying, like the inconsistent story about where Adnan dropped him off that night. What's funny is there's 2 recorded interviews and 2 sets of court testimony, but there's still a bunch of lies that seem to end up in the 1st category of "Jay is the Dennis Rodman of Woodlawn High School and his brain works funny". This is the frustration that Koenig et al. point out, and dammit, it is frustrating. Bush Did Outer Heaven fucked around with this message at 19:01 on Dec 23, 2014 |
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Dec 23, 2014 18:54
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I listened to this last week, and while I have no idea whether the kid is guilty or not there seems to be more than enough reasonable doubt. No idea how he got convicted on the evidence available.
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Dec 23, 2014 19:08
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stickyfngrdboy posted:I have no idea whether the kid is guilty or not there seems to be more than enough reasonable doubt. No idea how he got convicted on the evidence available. The podcast manipulated you with one-sided half-truths
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Dec 23, 2014 19:19
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African AIDS cum posted:The podcast manipulated you with one-sided half-truths I don't think so op im too clever to fall for that stickyfngrdboy fucked around with this message at 19:29 on Dec 23, 2014 |
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Dec 23, 2014 19:27
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Zesty Mordant posted:I mean, were we supposed to start off thinking he did it? The very first thing the show does is bring us on to Adnan's side by talking about how hard it is to remember how a day went from weeks back. I don't know, I think I would remember a day someone I once loved went missing and the police called to ask about it regardless of the amount of time passed, especially if I was a suspect.
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Dec 23, 2014 20:15
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What a lot of people seem to overlook is that Adnan was baked 24/7 around this time. No wonder he can't remember poo poo.
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Dec 23, 2014 20:18
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Adnan smoked so much weed he forgot he killed Hae
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Dec 23, 2014 20:24
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EATIN SHRIMP posted:Adnan smoked so much weed he forgot he killed Hae "How do I get rid of a high-I mean a body?"
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Dec 23, 2014 20:27
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Was Serial a DARE ad all along?
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Dec 23, 2014 20:27
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Daikatana Ritsu posted:I don't know, I think I would remember a day someone I once loved went missing and the police called to ask about it regardless of the amount of time passed, especially if I was a suspect. I had the impression that Adnan and friends didn't take her disappearance too seriously until several days later, didn't they think she was in California or something? So maybe (if he's innocent) that's not the day that the news really hit him.
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Dec 23, 2014 20:37
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Fresh Air had an interview with Sarah Koenig that aired recently. I only had a chance to listen to half of it in the car today but it seemed like it provides some additional insight into the show. It is on Fresh Air's site here: http://www.npr.org/programs/fresh-air if anyone cares.
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Dec 23, 2014 22:00
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Thanks - I'm going to check this out tomorrow. I got the feeling that Koenig was getting increasingly uncomfortable with the poo poo she was stirring up as Serial went on - but I'm not sure how much of that was internet commentary I read, and how much was actually in the podcast. It'll be interesting to listen to her commentary on the whole thing, after the fact - especially because so much of Serial was her thought process, anyway.
A Tasteful Nude fucked around with this message at 02:50 on Dec 24, 2014 |
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Dec 24, 2014 02:47
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http://gawker.com/jay-from-serial-is-apparently-ready-to-talk-1675340373 Apparently Jay is ready to talk - but not to SK.
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Dec 26, 2014 19:40
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Tuxedo Jack posted:http://gawker.com/jay-from-serial-is-apparently-ready-to-talk-1675340373 Found this on a related link: http://gawker.com/koenig-on-koenig-a-critique-of-serial-1674498622 Pretty great. I can't disagree with all of it.
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Dec 26, 2014 19:57
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Tuxedo Jack posted:http://gawker.com/jay-from-serial-is-apparently-ready-to-talk-1675340373 Linked to that article is a pretty good rundown of some of the stuff SK & crew missed: how screwed up the Baltimore justice system was at that time. https://www.readability.com/articles/ytdqdhkx beaten edit: not beaten, article's different
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Dec 26, 2014 20:07
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Just finished the series. Dang. I think, after all of the evidence has come in and after some reflection, I'd have to vote to acquit Adnan Syed. There is not enough evidence to eliminate reasonable doubt that he murdered Hae Min Lee. To me it is nearly certain that the events did NOT transpire the way the state has claimed on the day of the murder. The testimony of Jay does not match up with the phone records that the state relied on to convict Adnan and the timeline involved would require a massive amount of planning, luck, and outside assistance to happen the way they did. From what I gleaned from the podcast Jay was most definitely involved in the murder of Hae. It is likely that Adnan was in some way involved in the murder or did it himself. It is also not ruled out that a third party known to both Jay and Adnan, or at least one of them, was involved in the murder of Hae. From what I understand a person that admitted to assisting in the murder and coverup of Hae is a free person, while a person not proven to have done it is sitting in jail for a life sentence. Adnan should be out of jail, Jay should be in jail for assisting in the murder as far as I am concerned after the podcast, which more DNA testing and more digging done to determine Adnan's role.
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Dec 26, 2014 21:48
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Raar_Im_A_Dinosaur posted:Found this on a related link: While that piece makes perfectly good points, I don't see how it is a valid criticism of Serial. Koenig made clear that her goal was to get to the bottom of the story of who killed Hae. The effectiveness, or lack thereof of Baltimore's judicial system isn't really relevant to that.
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Dec 26, 2014 22:23
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Well, after listening to the whole thing I have to say it's good storytelling, although not revolutionary as some people say, except for the fact thats a podcast and not an audiobook and through the weekly release created a shared, watercooler-friendly expirience. As for the case itself, I think it's remarkable that a good portion of people, including me, are convinced of Adnan's guilt after hearing about the case from his defense journalist. It's funny how it begins with the rationalization of the fact that he can't remember what he did that day but everyone else we hear from seems to remember it quiete clearly and in the last episode they finally point out the fact that it's strange that an ex-boyfriend, who was called by the police about her, does not remember that day. They throw out a few red herrings ("Mr. S", the "serial killer" from the justice project) who are completly elimanted from being suspects by the simple fact that Jay did know where the car was and how would he know that if some random person he does not know killed Hae? He can't. This leaves 2 possibilites, either Adnan did it, or Jay killed Hae and framed Adnan. But Jay has zero motive for killing her, while Adnan does, even though the podcast tried to make us believe he didn't by speaking to a lot of Adnan-friendly people. That's another big flaw of Serial in my opinion. Because they percieved as being on team Adnan, noone that truely believes Adnan is guilty is talking to them. Not Jay, not the persecutor, not the detectives. Why would they? The case is closed in their eyes and all they say can and will be used against the outcome they supported. It also is very troubling that Koening never went through the trouble of explaining the fact that witness testimony is never accurate and we therefore should not approach Jay's timeline with the expectation that it has to be 100% accurate. At least the order of events makes sense, explains what happened and can be corroborated by the phone log and other witnesses. The podcast would have benefitted from a two person narration, one "working" as pseudo defense and one as persecutor, because in the format that they presented the narrative of the podcast was "let us tell you about this murder and the kid that probably was hosed over by his corrupt attorney and criminal friend" and Koening only in passing remarks about flaws in the Adnan is innocent narrative like the fact that only his father would testify he was at the mosque, why did he not remember the day his ex-girlfriend went missing and the cops called him, how did Jay know where the car was if the story is not true, why did he ask Hae for a ride if he wanted to go check his emails and later go to track practice, why did noone call his email provider for logs of his activity, why does "checking your emails" take 75 minutes and so on... But I guess we should all look at the "bigger picture", whatever that means.
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Dec 26, 2014 23:07
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GaussianCopula posted:Well, The things that stuck out to me were that they seemed to have a lot of zero sum questions. He "asked her for a ride" and then didn't expect a ride. It was because she told Adnan that she couldn't give him a ride. Boom. Done. But they gloss over it in the podcast. They say "Why did Adnan ask her for a ride? CLEARLY he was expecting to get a ride". No, he could have asked for a ride, heard the "no", and moved on to the library since the ride thing didn't work out. It doesn't have to be one or the other, BOTH can be true. Same with some of Jay's testimony. Sure Adnan could have made certain calls, but it doesn't mean it HAD to be Adnan OR Jay. A lot is assumed or read into some of those details, I think. Jay totally could have had motive to kill her. Adnan was really good friends with Stephanie. Who says they weren't getting high/sleeping around all the time? Jay could have a motive if he felt that Adnan was doublecrossing him or some such. I'm not saying he did it, I'm just saying that is as much a motive as Adnan has. This wasn't really explored. I also feel Jay's timeline is troubling because some of those calls couldn't have possibly happened the way he describes them. Its also unclear what the calls were. If Adnan is innocent/at the library/mosque then it makes perfect sense he'd be calling a girl he wants to sex up. Its perfectly reasonable to call his friends looking for weed. Only in the context of the murder are the calls incriminating. Again, I'm not saying that Adnan DIDN'T do it, only that the narrative Jay has created isn't really consistent or even really incriminating. And again, the zero sum thing. Its possible that two things are true at the same time. If I remember correctly,, she DID try to get the detectives, prosecutor, and several other people to talk to her but they wouldn't do it. She mentioned it in the first few episodes. She tried a lot, and no one would talk to her.
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Dec 27, 2014 00:00
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GaussianCopula posted:
Prosecutor. I only point it out because the mistake is quite ironic given your position.
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Dec 27, 2014 05:29
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Seems sorta crazy that Adnan/Jay/whoever may have strangled a girl in a parking lot in broad daylight in the afternoon. Seems like pure luck that they didn't get caught. That is if we accept the theory that she died in either the library parking lot or the best buy parking lot. I guess its really possible it could have been somewhere else.
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Dec 28, 2014 18:33
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Bulkiest Toaster posted:Seems sorta crazy that Adnan/Jay/whoever may have strangled a girl in a parking lot in broad daylight in the afternoon. Seems like pure luck that they didn't get caught. That is if we accept the theory that she died in either the library parking lot or the best buy parking lot. I guess its really possible it could have been somewhere else. Doesn't seem so crazy when Adnan said they use to have sex there.
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Dec 29, 2014 03:49
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Tormented posted:Doesn't seem so crazy when Adnan said they use to have sex there. I assume they used to have sex there like...at night. Not in the middle of the day when it's full of people.
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Dec 29, 2014 03:53
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It might've been a quiet store. Still seems super risky, especially since this is meant to be premeditated.
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Dec 29, 2014 14:37
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The other thing is how often do people really pay attention to what is happening in parked cars around them? Though if someone was having sex or being strangled in a car I would suspect that there would be a lot of movement of the car thus bringing attention to it.
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Dec 29, 2014 15:21
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Also it was a cold day and the windows would have been steamed up. I'm pretty sure you could strangle someone without drawing too much attention to yourself in a car park.
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Dec 29, 2014 15:35
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Mr. Flunchy posted:Also it was a cold day and the windows would have been steamed up. I'm pretty sure you could strangle someone without drawing too much attention to yourself in a car park. As a former desperate teenager who was often caught in cars, I have to disagree. Anyone just scanning the lot or pulling in nearby would be able to see that something was happening. And since the entire strangling episode took like five minutes tops according to the police timeline, I don't think the car would steam up that fast.
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Dec 29, 2014 20:02
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It seems strange that there was no signs of struggle or anything from a High School Track Athlete, and that he'd somehow be able to strangle a fit and healthy person in a very small time space. Doesn't it take at least 2 minutes without oxygen for someone to actually DIE from asphyxiation? Given the timeline the state gave, he'd literally have to be an expert choke out artist, be super strong to lift her into a trunk quickly with no one noticing, and she wouldn't have to struggle at all. It just doesn't work. The states story is nigh impossible.
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Dec 29, 2014 20:17
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Jastiger posted:It seems strange that there was no signs of struggle or anything from a High School Track Athlete, and that he'd somehow be able to strangle a fit and healthy person in a very small time space. Doesn't it take at least 2 minutes without oxygen for someone to actually DIE from asphyxiation? Given the timeline the state gave, he'd literally have to be an expert choke out artist, be super strong to lift her into a trunk quickly with no one noticing, and she wouldn't have to struggle at all. Where did it say there were no signs of a struggle?
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Dec 29, 2014 20:19
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African AIDS cum posted:Where did it say there were no signs of a struggle? I kind of assumed given the story of how quickly he did it, how easily it was done, and how they never tested for evidence of violence. At least it wasn't brought up in the series, and I"d think that'd be a pretty big piece of investigation on a story like this.
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Dec 29, 2014 20:41
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It's not like Adnan was a frail dweeb either
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Dec 29, 2014 20:48
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Jay did an interview: https://firstlook.org/theintercept/2014/12/29/exclusive-interview-jay-wilds-star-witness-adnan-syed-serial-case-pt-1/
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Dec 29, 2014 22:10
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Sexy Randal posted:Jay did an interview: https://firstlook.org/theintercept/2014/12/29/exclusive-interview-jay-wilds-star-witness-adnan-syed-serial-case-pt-1/ Another completely different story.
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Dec 29, 2014 22:46
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