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It would feel fairer to me if it was something the gnome could do and the player could prevent: maybe the gnome has a minor action that lets him nick the shadow (if he's adjacent / makes a roll / etc) and whenever he takes damage, he drops it and the assassin can go get it back. Fakeedit: and then the shadow, having spent some time detached from the assassin, picks up a the ability to detach and reattach itself on command and becomes his sidekick.
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Dec 4, 2014 13:07
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Come to think of it, something like a magic mirror that simply makes a copy would be a great feywild-ish story hook as well. That way I can let the gnome run around with the shadow for as long as I want, and they can deal with him however they want. And it ties in really well with some other things I have in mind so those won't be arbitrary isolated incidents. Hmm. ... next question: it's dangerous to simply forage for food in the Feywild, doubly so for outsiders. Things might be unpalatable, poisonous, hallucinogenic or magic. Are there any existing items or consumables that could be beneficial or detrimental randomly in small ways? I was hoping there'd be a Rod of Wonder or something I could crib some entries from but that didn't make the cut between editions. I already found the Vagabond's Die but one player put that on her item wish list.
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Dec 5, 2014 11:44
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My Lovely Horse posted:... next question: it's dangerous to simply forage for food in the Feywild, doubly so for outsiders. Things might be unpalatable, poisonous, hallucinogenic or magic. Are there any existing items or consumables that could be beneficial or detrimental randomly in small ways? I was hoping there'd be a Rod of Wonder or something I could crib some entries from but that didn't make the cut between editions. I already found the Vagabond's Die but one player put that on her item wish list. Otherwise, I think the main issue with fey food is often something along the lines of being more susceptible to fey mind magic. In most of the (admittedly few) stories I've seen, eating the food makes you want to stay in the fey realm, or forget who you are/what your quest is.
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Dec 5, 2014 14:36
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... that makes a lot more sense. Excellent idea. I even have a collection of original Irish folk tales around somewhere, there's bound to be something in there.
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Dec 5, 2014 14:55
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My god, this thread has meandered right where I want it! I'm running a Dark Sun game presently, and I'm about to catapult my players right into the decaying shreds of the Feywild, trapped there until they can find the artefact/antagonist which has stranded them. I'm kind of trying to work out how I'm going to handle a couple aspects of this. First off, I kind of want to actually give them a certain freedom of exploration, with the caveat that they really want to get out soon, because time moves very differently and the local environments/fauna and locals will not be particularly friendly. I'm thinking of using a hex grid as a basis for the exploration - moving to an unexplored grid takes X time and the hex will have some kind of encounter in it, whether it's something to fight/evade, a skill challenge so that they don't lose time/supplies or even potential loot. Does this sound like a good structure for a couple of sessions? Secondly, as far as threats of the Feywild go, does anyone have suggestions for really weird monster stat blocks or advice on building one with respect to Dark Sun statting? I'm also thinking that if the players get down to the point where they have to forage for food and end up eating Feywild stuff I want to work in some of that whole amnesia thing. What would be a good way to implement this?
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Dec 5, 2014 22:44
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Amnesia is tricky. When it comes to forgetting things the players know for a fact, like their backstories or personal plot hooks, pretty much all you can do is hand them a note saying "Joe the Barbarian has forgotten all about his search for the ancestor spirit" and hope they play along properly. But that's a huge thing to forget anyway and should be reserved for occasions where they really tuck in the feywild fruit from day 1, if you use it at all (obviously there needs to be some way for them to recover the memory). But you can have a lot of fun having them encounter characters and situations and describe them as familiar the first time around. Things like: - they meet someone who greets them as old friends, asks them how their search for X goes, maybe asks them if they followed his advice about it - other way around, they meet someone who's out for revenge - they encounter a complex riddle and find clues in their own journals, or they come to a crossroads and see a sign "danger this way" in their own handwriting - particularly crafty: they already solved one of their quests, but didn't realize
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Dec 6, 2014 09:46
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I just bought the Rules Compendium from DnDClassics and downloaded the Quickstart guide as well, but can you really not buy any PDFs of the PHBs or even the Essentials books? Are there any digital products besides DDI for character creation?
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Dec 16, 2014 22:44
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gradenko_2000 posted:I just bought the Rules Compendium from DnDClassics and downloaded the Quickstart guide as well, but can you really not buy any PDFs of the PHBs or even the Essentials books? Are there any digital products besides DDI for character creation? Chaltab fucked around with this message at 23:17 on Dec 16, 2014 |
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Dec 16, 2014 23:15
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So the Zeitgeist path has introduced a new kind of monster - the Goon. It rests on the spectrum between Minion and Standard. It's basically a normal monster, but with half the hit points. I think it's a good idea, but needs more work. I'm specifically worried about damage output, which remains too high at this encounter budget. Any thoughts?
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Dec 23, 2014 21:41
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dwarf74 posted:So the Zeitgeist path has introduced a new kind of monster - the Goon. It rests on the spectrum between Minion and Standard. It's basically a normal monster, but with half the hit points (or not, adjust to taste). I've always been a fan of 2-hit monsters for that; have them die outright when hit by an Encounter or Daily power, and miss-damage takes off 1 hit. Oh, and extra damage dice like Sneak Attack and Quarry count as an extra hit, too. This doesn't work for all Strikers (notably Avengers, Slayers, Blackguards) so, maybe just say Strikers kill them outright on any hit, including at-wills..? But you're right, figuring out where they sit in terms of damage output is a challenge.
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Dec 23, 2014 21:56
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dwarf74 posted:So the Zeitgeist path has introduced a new kind of monster - the Goon. It rests on the spectrum between Minion and Standard. It's basically a normal monster, but with half the hit points. I like Strike!'s two-hit monsters, which are a bit different from P.Dot's. If the first hit is enough to kill them, it obviously does, but if not, the second one does (regardless of the totals). In terms of damage output, I'd still put them in static-damage Minionland.
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Dec 23, 2014 22:02
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homullus posted:I like Strike!'s two-hit monsters, which are a bit different from P.Dot's. If the first hit is enough to kill them, it obviously does, but if not, the second one does (regardless of the totals). In terms of damage output, I'd still put them in static-damage Minionland. I'm leaning towards 2/3 damage, just eyeballing it...
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Dec 23, 2014 22:23
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dwarf74 posted:Yeah, I use 2-hit minions, too, and this is a step up... You could also halve their damage when bloodied (or go the other way, doubling it when bloodied).
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Dec 23, 2014 22:47
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dwarf74 posted:So the Zeitgeist path has introduced a new kind of monster - the Goon. It rests on the spectrum between Minion and Standard. It's basically a normal monster, but with half the hit points. homullus posted:I like Strike!'s two-hit monsters, which are a bit different from P.Dot's. If the first hit is enough to kill them, it obviously does, but if not, the second one does (regardless of the totals). In terms of damage output, I'd still put them in static-damage Minionland. Thanks, although I need to credit P.Dot whose posting about 2-hit minions got me to include them in the first place.
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Dec 24, 2014 03:09
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Tactically and narratively speaking, minions are total garbage, but if you want to make players care about fighting minions you need to have a way to put even more of them out there, not less. Thus you introduce things like the Mook, who when slain grants his killer an extra attack against another Mook. The Mook is worth half the XP of a minion and thus worth considering putting in your encounter. You also have things happen to the environment when Mooks die. You hit the Mook too hard and he splattered through the floor or the wall, making a hole that changes the battlefield. So many Mooks have died that a mound forms from their dead, causing difficult terrain. I support the Goon in theory but you're getting dangerously close to a setup where focus fire will obliterate PCs beyond hope of survival.
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Dec 29, 2014 06:39
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OneThousandMonkeys posted:Tactically and narratively speaking, minions are total garbage, but if you want to make players care about fighting minions you need to have a way to put even more of them out there, not less. Thus you introduce things like the Mook, who when slain grants his killer an extra attack against another Mook. The Mook is worth half the XP of a minion and thus worth considering putting in your encounter. This is a big gripe I have with 4e; monsters aren't really there to make combat interesting (despite having their own entire book), you're actually supposed to just gently caress with the terrain/traps/hazards because they totally dedicated a comparable page-count to those concepts. :iamafag:
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Dec 29, 2014 06:44
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Did they ever release non-garbage traps? (IE: Not the ones in the DMG)
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Dec 29, 2014 10:11
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I just found out about Open 4e. It's... kind of a lot to go through, really. Has anyone here tried it? I know it is a work in progress, from the looks of it, but I'm not quite sure what it is trying to do.
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Dec 29, 2014 10:54
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Azran posted:I just found out about Open 4e. It's... kind of a lot to go through, really. Has anyone here tried it? I know it is a work in progress, from the looks of it, but I'm not quite sure what it is trying to do. I also just found out about it. It looks like garbage.
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Dec 29, 2014 14:52
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I have never played in a game with any temporary HP-using characters. How many temporary HP could a character have in that kind of game, 1.on average and 2. with some optimization? How much does it depend on character level?
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Dec 30, 2014 19:48
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Suleman posted:I have never played in a game with any temporary HP-using characters. How many temporary HP could a character have in that kind of game, 1.on average and 2. with some optimization? How much does it depend on character level? I can't give you precise numbers, but the most important point is that temporary HP does not stack. Basically the worst-case scenario is, somewhere between half a hit and a hit and a half of temp HP that can be renewed pretty much whenever they feel like it.
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Dec 30, 2014 23:00
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Suleman posted:I have never played in a game with any temporary HP-using characters. How many temporary HP could a character have in that kind of game, 1.on average and 2. with some optimization? How much does it depend on character level? Not enough to matter, generally, especially with newer monsters which do more damage but have fewer hit points. The main ways are Battlerager Fighter (really not worth the bother even at high-op levels, versus just taking +1 to hit); Blackguard (not a very strong character); Paladin/anyone trained in Religion - Virtue and Deliverance of Faith both allow you to spend a surge for a surge of temps as a minor which is very solid on a defender particularly, as it lets you get access to your copious surges more easily; Bard (Revitalising Incantation is a great power); the THP Barbarian (reasonably solid, especially if hybridded with Cleric); and perhaps most importantly, Artificer past 11th level - each heal is 2 surges with bonuses of THP, and the first two don't even cost a surge until after the fight. The most optimal way of throwing a tonne of THP around is an Artificer.
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Dec 31, 2014 00:59
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thespaceinvader posted:Not enough to matter, generally, especially with newer monsters which do more damage but have fewer hit points. On a build where you're making sure to stack THP and resist all, battlerager is pretty good because it's very hard for an enemy to deal significant damage to you even before you get into using in-combat surges. If your party includes a valorous bard, don't bother playing battlerager. If you do play Battlerager, invest in Constitution and Wisdom equally because then you qualify for Superior Will, the feat everyone should take if they can, and your mark will be much better.
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Dec 31, 2014 01:05
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Eh, even then you're only likely to be preventing maybe 10 damage per round, max, with the THP. BRV fiighter just isn't that hot since the errata to stop THP stacking WAAAY back in the early days, then the MM3 damage values Resist all is useful regardless, and doesn't affect the opportunity cost of picking BRV over one of the other Fighter specialities (+1 to hit, in particular). It's worth noting that invigorating powers are still invigorating for normal Fighters (indeed, for anyone at all) if they're trained in Endurance; that's not part of the BRV speciality. Basically, if you can get meaningful resist all you can get it anyway, and you can have something more useful than THP instead of THP. And yeah, ValBards give out a small amount of temps per round, most likely between 3 and 10 depending on tier. Again, not a lot. Artificers give out obscene amounts of temps in the right party. Our paragon game with the con-artificer and the Dragonborn Warden routinely resulted in the Wizard having almost as many THP as he had hit points.
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Dec 31, 2014 01:53
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Berserkers can get plenty of temps every encounter, too.
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Dec 31, 2014 01:59
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Battlerager, as has been mentioned, is kinda for chumps. If you want a lightly armored fighter who's more offensive oriented while still being a defender, go Tempest (and if you multiclass into monk, you can pretend you're also a brawler!). If you want to be more defense oriented while still being a light armor defender (and not some wizard, pfffff), I've had really good experiences with Runepriest|Fighter.
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Dec 31, 2014 02:02
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There is always the Serene Runepriest | Swarm Druid for a combination of temp hit points every time you are hit, halving damage from non burst/blasts, and the occasional resist all. It does involve jumping through some hoops and ignoring the strength based powers.
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Dec 31, 2014 02:05
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Really Pants posted:Berserkers can get plenty of temps every encounter, too. But, sadly, only AFTER they stop drawing heat. Unless they've both got Battle Awareness, and not used it BEFORE furying. I really like my Berserker (defender role primary), but in probably 6 levels I can count on the fingers of one hand the number of times I've both furied and then been hit afterwards. I don't have that feat.
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Dec 31, 2014 02:15
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Yeah, they don't really get stupid with the temps until you get Surge of Strength, and then start getting high-level rage dailies that still let you defend.
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Dec 31, 2014 02:18
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The stupidest stupid temps require DM co-operation. Fight one of those monsters that deals no damage with its attack but instead gives you like ongoing 200, and the ?belt? that turns ongoing you receive into temps 1/encounter.
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Dec 31, 2014 02:25
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thespaceinvader posted:Eh, even then you're only likely to be preventing maybe 10 damage per round, max, with the THP. BRV fiighter just isn't that hot since the errata to stop THP stacking WAAAY back in the early days, then the MM3 damage values I am running a BRV fighter in epic right now, and throwing out AOE marks and then absorbing anywhere from 5-15 damage per resulting attack is what makes the BRV useful. The build is basically Fighter/Iron Vanguard/Marshal of Letherna with Gloves of Antipathy, a Shield of Deflection, and a Feyslaughter Craghammer. Mix in armor with resist 5 all to taste. Enemies are forced into making the least efficient use of their attacks, even if they have the typical epic-level bullshit. You pick BRV so you're not limited to getting temps off the sometimes really underwhelming vigor powers. As part of a package it really makes a difference, alone yeah it's not very good. And absolutely do not take lighter armor on a BRV.
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Dec 31, 2014 02:28
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Except you're not absorbing 5 to 15 damage from each attack with temps. You're absorbing your temps worth from ONE attack, then the temps have gone, then the resist all you could have had anyway from the rest of the attacks unless you're getting a lot of off-turn attacks from the enemies which are hitting you instead of your allies because you're marking all of them in order to get the temps back in between... And in exchange you could have been hitting more often, for your entire career. Really, the only thing you're getting from BRV there is a small amount of HP per round, at the cost of +1 to hit. ALL the other components you could have picked up anyway. Temps only work once, is the main problem with them. Once they've sucked damage they're gone, unless you routinely have enough damage reduction and resist all that the hits you're taking bounce without eating your temps. But at that point, the hits your taking would be bouncing ANYWAY so the resources you put into temps are still not doing much god.
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Dec 31, 2014 02:42
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thespaceinvader posted:Except you're not absorbing 5 to 15 damage from each attack with temps. You're absorbing your temps worth from ONE attack, then the temps have gone, then the resist all you could have had anyway from the rest of the attacks unless you're getting a lot of off-turn attacks from the enemies which are hitting you instead of your allies because you're marking all of them in order to get the temps back in between... And in exchange you could have been hitting more often, for your entire career. +1 to hit when you are usually attacking Will, making no attack at all via multi-mark minors, or relying mainly on your Wisdom bonus to opportunity attacks isn't that important. When it comes to absorbing damage, every little bit helps. In general I agree +1 is better, but if your objective is tanking blows the temps add up. This is the case where temps matter. If you're 1v1ing something it's even better. Note that this fighter build is relying on pretty much every gold-rated utility and encounter power for fighters anyway.
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Dec 31, 2014 03:05
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I guess we'll just have to agree to differ then. Unless you're getting every single benny to BRVing (i.e. being a dwarf and spending a bunch of feats) the temps are minimal compared to MM3 damage, and if you ARE doing that, consider what you could have got instead, basically.I'm not saying temps are bad, I'm saying you have limited resources which you could better spend on other things. And to the best of my knowledge the Fighter only has one or two good will attacks. And they can still miss.
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Dec 31, 2014 03:13
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thespaceinvader posted:I guess we'll just have to agree to differ then. Unless you're getting every single benny to BRVing (i.e. being a dwarf and spending a bunch of feats) the temps are minimal compared to MM3 damage, and if you ARE doing that, consider what you could have got instead, basically.I'm not saying temps are bad, I'm saying you have limited resources which you could better spend on other things. We are roughly ten weeks and 10-15 combats in and spamming Come and Get It, Warrior's Urging, Glowering Threat, and Kirre's Roar has worked so far, primarily because it sets up controllers and strikers for a really good round. If I were trying to do literally anything else with a fighter, yes, +1 is better. But most weeks I am the only defender in a group full of ranged squishies.
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Dec 31, 2014 03:20
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I'm looking forward to granting hundreds of temp HP with Rune of Hero's Resolve in 2 levels. What's what Paladin? You want 200 temp HP this fight? Sure! Have a standard action, while you're at it. Also looking forward to overhealing myself to temp HP with a Cincture of Vivacity and get that +6 damage from Rune of Mending out on turn 1.
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Dec 31, 2014 04:20
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I just downloaded Masterplan. Holy poo poo this is rad.
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Dec 31, 2014 05:04
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The paladin in my party throws out THP for the entire party on a regular basis. For most characters the amount is in the neighborhood of a single healing surge value. Not having to heal that back after the battle adds up quickly.
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Dec 31, 2014 10:08
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My Lovely Horse posted:The paladin in my party throws out THP for the entire party on a regular basis. For most characters the amount is in the neighborhood of a single healing surge value. Not having to heal that back after the battle adds up quickly.
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Dec 31, 2014 15:20
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It's my understanding that the offline monster builder isn't around anymore? Or did people keep it kicking like the character builder?
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Jan 1, 2015 15:36
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