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thanks xopods! thats what i was looking for. i felt like i had a pretty good chance to kill once i cut him off, but it seems i was way overconfident. i feel ive become too aggressive without even thinking about it. it's made me drop a few ranks, and i feel i havent improved at all in the past couple months. time to read more i guess.
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Dec 23, 2014 04:46
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uranus posted:thanks xopods! thats what i was looking for. i felt like i had a pretty good chance to kill once i cut him off, but it seems i was way overconfident. i feel ive become too aggressive without even thinking about it. it's made me drop a few ranks, and i feel i havent improved at all in the past couple months. time to read more i guess. I forgot to say what my main advice was going to be, but the number one thing you should learn from that game is that, except in rare cases, you should not induce your opponent to separate your stones unless: (a) you're planning on sacrificing one half, or (b) he's also getting split in the process so it becomes a fair fight. Throughout the early stages of the game, you keep inviting him to push through your shape, and then compounding the problem by trying to save both halves. And yes, as you say, a lot of that comes from being overly aggressive, which is probably something you've picked up from your online opponents. You could improve by getting better at actually killing, which is what most online players do, but you'll improve much faster if you remind yourself of the primary objective of Go - claiming more of the board for yourself - and think of attacking as a means to that end. Don't try to kill outright unless (a) you think you see a clear killing line, (b) you're positive that your opponent is being unreasonable and it should be relatively easy to kill, or (c) you've counted and you're far enough behind that you need to kill to win. This is especially true in the early middle game, where the board is mostly empty. It's really hard to kill anything significant at that point and if you try and fail, you often end up with a thin position. If you really need to indulge your thirst for blood, it's better to go for a kill much later in the game when most positions are already settled, so there isn't as much room for him to maneuver, and the damage to your position will be less if he does end up living.
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Dec 23, 2014 14:57
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Any suggestions on working on general fighting/middlegame/sacrifice techniques? When I was playing regularly, I was KGS 3k or so, but have been away from the game for about 18 months. In terms of style, one thing I know I do wrong is to play a bit too passively and just lazily play shape and not fighting back when I should. When I push against this tendency blindly, I find myself in disadvantageous fights against people who fight tactically better than I do, particularly online. To work on this, I've been working back through my selection of (mainly japanese) problem books to brush some of the dust off of reading skills, and I mainly need to play more. That said, studying that would help me work on when to play shape and how and when to fight would be great. I've picked back up Attack and Defense, Breakthrough to Shodan, and Kage's chronicles of handicap go to help there; do these make sense along with getting back to playing, doing problems, and memorizing a few pro games? Also, any particular pros that stronger players recommend studying/memorizing at my level?
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Dec 23, 2014 17:04
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Sakata Eio, Fujisawa Shuko, and Takemiya Masaki.
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Dec 23, 2014 17:07
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do you all memorize pro games? do you find it helpful, or enjoyable?
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Dec 23, 2014 17:44
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uranus posted:do you all memorize pro games? do you find it helpful, or enjoyable? I play through them three times and don't attempt to memorise them, though some sequences are inevitably memorised by the third time through and it's enjoyable. It's funny how it's the sequence of moves like in a joseki that you can often play out in a few seconds then stare at the board for a minute wondering where they played next. Then when you look for that move on the kifu, the next 10 or so moves come naturally. Also, this is a really good game in my opinion: http://www.go4go.net/go/games/sgfview/38468
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Dec 23, 2014 17:54
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uranus posted:do you all memorize pro games? do you find it helpful, or enjoyable? For enjoyablility, yes, I find it an enjoyable way to relax at the end of a day. A welcome respite from the workday without the effort of actually playing. In terms of study value, the kinds of moves that the pros find and the places they tenuki or handle indirectly are ones I wouldn't even have considered, which is eye opening. Figuring out the logic behind that is hard, though, and often I cannot; I think there's value, though in just learning that you can tenuki, probe, or handle things indirectly in places you wouldn't have before.
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Dec 23, 2014 18:13
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I almost never study pro games because i cannot understand them. When I do go over them, its strictly for entertainment value. I guess im dumb or something.
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Dec 23, 2014 21:09
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IMlemon posted:I almost never study pro games because i cannot understand them. When I do go over them, its strictly for entertainment value. I guess im dumb or something. I'm sorry you feel like you need to read 50 moves ahead to be able to ask yourself what would you play in a position, to be able to see how a pro handles something you wouldn't know what to do in, or why a pro tenuki'd and how it's different from when you would tenuki. I guess you are dumb.
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Dec 23, 2014 21:26
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playing out pro games and trying to guess the next move is so fun. literal fist pumping occurs when i get one right.
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Dec 23, 2014 21:45
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I've started getting back into go recently, and may be thinking of trying for the push to 1dan. However I'm still pretty unhappy with most of the games I'm playing. What would be the best regimen to improve? I know the usual mantra of play games, do tsumego, and look at pro games, and I do all three really but the three don't seem to come together very well to improve my playing. I often feel like I fall behind after the opening, and that I am not able to make sound strategical decisions consistently, but tsumego doesn't really help with that and pro games are often not very understandable to me. Just played a game recently: http://eidogo.com/#8n09WLka:0,0 It ended up being a close game (I'm white), but I think that both me and my opponent made some pretty big mistakes. I'm wondering, how do I deal with black 11? It's definitely not joseki to leave the shape on the upper right as is, but I didn't really know what to do. The q10 stone gets in the way of the natural extension of my right side group, but I couldn't really find a clear way to attack black's top group either. Of course if any of you feel like taking a look at the rest of the game, any help would be appreciated! (On another note, it feels like all of my games end up with me playing territory vs a huge moyo for my opponent, which is really annoying me!)
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Dec 24, 2014 00:07
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AdorableStar posted:I'm sorry you feel like you need to read 50 moves ahead to be able to ask yourself what would you play in a position, to be able to see how a pro handles something you wouldn't know what to do in, or why a pro tenuki'd and how it's different from when you would tenuki. I guess you are dumb. Dude chill out, there are like hour long lectures floating around why a pro tenuki'd 3 moves into a joseki instead of continuing. Its complex.
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Dec 24, 2014 03:04
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Uncle Jam posted:Dude chill out, there are like hour long lectures floating around why a pro tenuki'd 3 moves into a joseki instead of continuing. Its complex. I'm just saying that telling people not to go over pro games because they "can't understand them" is a lovely attitude to have.
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Dec 24, 2014 03:13
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uranus posted:do you all memorize pro games? do you find it helpful, or enjoyable? I commit them to short-term memory, but don't try to memorize them permanently. Sometimes I do it with Go World magazines, or Invincible or whatever and a physical board, or I do it with an SGF and an editor. Either way, I look at the first 30 moves or so, then go back to the start and try to replay them from memory, which I can usually do on the first try at my level (Go memory comes naturally with playing skill, as I've explained in the past). Then I look at the next 30 and replay all 60. Then the next 30 and replay all 90, etc. until the beginning of the endgame, at which point I don't find it interesting or useful usually. I do it for enjoyment primarily, but I do find it useful as well. You don't have to fully understand many of the moves, or indeed any of them to benefit. Firstly, it's just generally exercising the Go part of your brain. But also you'll get a sense for the pro approach to the game, how they approach things like attack and defense, aji, timing of kikashi, when to tenuki, what areas of the board are large, sacrifices and so forth. And not every pro move is some hugely deep tesuji, many are no-brainers... so there are going to be some moves you can understand and learn more specific things from at any level, you just have to ignore the ones that seem incomprehensible. The important thing is that virtually none of the moves will be bad - a typical pro mistake is still a good amateur dan move. So if you're watching some KGS dan game you might be learning some things that are objectively bad habits but which work out for the guy because he's very good at life and death or whatever, but if you're studying a pro game, you can be pretty sure you're not going to come away with too many bad habits.
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Dec 24, 2014 03:19
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well i've now been playing go for a year, and one of my new years resolutions last year was to 'become average at go', im not sure if i reached that goal by getting to 10k or not. My goal for next year is to be solidly sdk, maybe 5k, that seems good. anyone here have go related resolutions?
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Dec 25, 2014 00:32
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Resolution 1: Stop playing so retardedly
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Dec 25, 2014 00:45
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AdorableStar posted:I'm just saying that telling people not to go over pro games because they "can't understand them" is a lovely attitude to have. He didn't say that at all. You're just an rear end in a top hat. I feel the exact same as him: I don't understand why pros play what they do, but it's still fun to watch.
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Dec 25, 2014 01:41
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Pander posted:He didn't say that at all. You're just an rear end in a top hat. I feel the exact same as him: I don't understand why pros play what they do, but it's still fun to watch. You're still selling yourself short; there's nothing out there that's going to prevent you from soaking up good moves subconciously even if you don't 100% get the exact reason why they played X or Y move. Saying you don't do it because "you can't understand them" is somekind of bullshit modesty like when Cho Chikun says he's not good at go even though he's one of the top Japanese players. Good is relative.
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Dec 25, 2014 01:53
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Have you considered writing a book, Khel? Your ability to motivate people to better themselves is amazing.
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Dec 26, 2014 03:57
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xopods posted:Have you considered writing a book, Khel? Your ability to motivate people to better themselves is amazing. How's your book coming along?
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Dec 26, 2014 06:00
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I work in publishing and think we should just start our own go book imprint. I love go books, and the dated look of most of them that I have pleases me, but the go community could stand to up its game, especially in the area of e-books. You can literally do animated diagrams to play through the moves instead of numbered diagrams as of this year, but I personally haven't seen it done yet. Khel's can be called "You're An rear end in a top hat at Go," which at the very least would be eye-catching.
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Dec 29, 2014 17:46
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we could get together and write a 'kyu thoughts on go' book and all the dans can read through it and chuckle and shake their heads and reminisce about the stones of goban past
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Dec 29, 2014 18:07
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That's pretty much what Neil Moffat did and people buy it with real money.
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Dec 29, 2014 18:10
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AdorableStar posted:How's your book coming along? wait xopods are you actually writing a book or is this just khel being a dick as i had assumed
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Dec 29, 2014 18:39
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i joined a league on ogs http://www.peanutgo.org/tnl/
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Dec 29, 2014 19:47
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asylum years posted:animated diagrams to play through the moves instead of numbered diagrams, but I personally haven't seen it done yet.
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Dec 29, 2014 19:58
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That's a standalone app though, isn't it? And you do in-app purchases and read the books in-app? I'm talking about files you can sell on book sites and port across multiple devices. I did forget about that app, though; it's really nice.
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Dec 29, 2014 20:14
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what about us non apple havers :'(
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Dec 29, 2014 20:22
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uranus posted:we could get together and write a 'kyu thoughts on go' book and all the dans can read through it and chuckle and shake their heads and reminisce about the stones of goban past
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Dec 29, 2014 21:27
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haha what, is there pro commentary on the kyu commentary?
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Dec 29, 2014 21:35
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uranus posted:wait xopods are you actually writing a book or is this just khel being a dick as i had assumed http://senseis.xmp.net/?BreakingBadHabits I read a lot of senseis and alex posts a lot on there.
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Dec 29, 2014 21:41
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uranus posted:haha what, is there pro commentary on the kyu commentary? Xom fucked around with this message at 21:57 on Dec 29, 2014 |
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Dec 29, 2014 21:46
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asylum years posted:Khel's can be called "You're An rear end in a top hat at Go," which at the very least would be eye-catching. I'd buy this book.
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Dec 29, 2014 22:16
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asylum years posted:but the go community could stand to up its game, especially in the area of e-books. You can literally do animated diagrams to play through the moves instead of numbered diagrams as of this year, but I personally haven't seen it done yet. If I was more active at playing and also if I was a decent writer I'd totally make a guide similar to Interactive Way To Go but much nicer looking and less dry. And I guess less pretentious about making a beginner go through all those tactics, I feel like some simple strategy advice would be much more interesting and effective. I'm surprised that after all these years no one ever made something better than it.
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Dec 29, 2014 22:25
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Symbolic Butt posted:If I was more active at playing and also if I was a decent writer I'd totally make a guide similar to Interactive Way To Go but much nicer looking and less dry. And I guess less pretentious about making a beginner go through all those tactics, I feel like some simple strategy advice would be much more interesting and effective. I'm surprised that after all these years no one ever made something better than it. Technically tactics > Strategy for beginners for a long time; how many times have you played a 20-30k who makes broken shape blatantly and ends up dying on 80% of the board as a result?
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Dec 29, 2014 22:26
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AdorableStar posted:http://senseis.xmp.net/?BreakingBadHabits woah awesome xopods i want a signed copy when its out 
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Dec 29, 2014 23:19
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Symbolic Butt posted:If I was more active at playing and also if I was a decent writer I'd totally make a guide similar to Interactive Way To Go but much nicer looking and less dry. And I guess less pretentious about making a beginner go through all those tactics, I feel like some simple strategy advice would be much more interesting and effective. I'm surprised that after all these years no one ever made something better than it. I have started on a goban in JS with the aim of doing this, I should put the code on Github, just haven't touched it in a while
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Dec 30, 2014 10:09
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I'd assumed he was just responding to sarcasm with sarcasm, but yeah, I was working on a book at one point with help from James Sedgwick (6d amateur I ran into a lot at tournaments). I had also gotten He Xiaoren (a pro) to say she'd take a look at the draft when it was done, but eventually I realized I had to start doing something with my time that was going to make more than $0 so I kind of gave up. You've inspired me to look back at what I've got though, Khel, and I realize that it's more than I thought... I had finished the first draft of the first two sections, which are actually about as much material as many books. I have no intention of finishing it and publishing it, but it would be a huge waste not to share what I've got. Take it with a grain of salt because although I got feedback from James Sedgwick and incorporated it, I never did get He Xiaoren's help. If you're wondering about the blank pages in the PDF's, it's because the idea was I would have all the text on right-hand pages and all the diagrams on the left, so there are blank pages for the left-hand pages in the bits where there is no diagram. Here you go: Chapter 1 - Wanting Too Little Chapter 2 - Wanting Too Much
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Dec 31, 2014 01:58
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xopods posted:I'd assumed he was just responding to sarcasm with sarcasm, but yeah, I was working on a book at one point with help from James Sedgwick (6d amateur I ran into a lot at tournaments). I had also gotten He Xiaoren (a pro) to say she'd take a look at the draft when it was done, but eventually I realized I had to start doing something with my time that was going to make more than $0 so I kind of gave up. On page one. About to go to a movie so I can't continue, but I rather like the opening analogy. Easy to read so far.
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Dec 31, 2014 02:27
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Attacking eyespace before escape routes - well poo poo, the only time I applied that was in strict L&D where the fundamentals are to seal in then try to kill.
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Dec 31, 2014 03:06
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