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Netrod sympathy level: zero. 
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Dec 24, 2014 18:07
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JoshTheStampede posted:Netrods will probably change somehow though, as I assume with Posthumans.
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Dec 24, 2014 18:21
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Flipswitch posted:I am curious to see if the points cost on change on them, lots of other things are cheaper now. Hard to get much cheaper than 4 pts for an order, no matter how weird and fuckup-prone it is.
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Dec 24, 2014 18:33
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Flipswitch posted:Edit to reply to this, but I got a text message this morning from two buddies who went to play today containing "WTF, Bolts are effective ARM 9 vs Viral?". I think someone got rudely surprised. Feelin much better about ordering NCA
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Dec 24, 2014 18:41
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JcDent posted:Feelin much better about ordering NCA  They are also BTS9 in Partial Cover vs Shock ammunition too. I might have to make a list of Shock ammo so I can reference how much it works against. I'll do that now actually and edit this post.Bioimmunity works against: Anti-personnel Mines Drop Bears Heavy Pistols HRMC (Burst Mode)* Knives Marksmanship Lv1/2. (Note: Marksmanship is OPTIONAL, so using Marksmanship can be declined.) MULTI Rifle (Burst Mode)* MULTI HMG (Burst Mode)* Shock CC Weapon SMGs (They were Shock in N2). Sniper Rifle (Non MULTI) Viral Weapons Veteran L1 works vs E/M weaponry. So you can add those to things Bolts don't give a gently caress about (outside of Guts checks). * - This is split ammo type, so your opponent can choose to use the AP option instead. I may have missed some things, I've only read through the QRF chart at the back. JoshTheStampede posted:Hard to get much cheaper than 4 pts for an order, no matter how weird and fuckup-prone it is. VVV Thanks, I knew I had missed one. Flipswitch fucked around with this message at 19:00 on Dec 24, 2014 |
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Dec 24, 2014 18:48
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Flipswitch posted:Important point though is they don't ignore taking the Guts Roll, so you still gotta do that bit. It works against Marksman2 REMs, of which there will be tons now that that supportware is a thing.
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Dec 24, 2014 18:50
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I use netrods in all my lists (usually just one, though), but I'm not worried about drop dispersal. Just deploy them a bit more centrally and if they scatter, oh well. In most tables, odds are they'll still be behind or on top of something and marginally hard to reach. It's still a bit of a bummer for drop troops. People already preferred to downgrade and enter via table sides with no roll, and now it's way worse. Unless you have a good hacker to guide the drop, it's just way too much of a risk.
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Dec 24, 2014 21:46
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Sephyr posted:I use netrods in all my lists (usually just one, though), but I'm not worried about drop dispersal. Just deploy them a bit more centrally and if they scatter, oh well. In most tables, odds are they'll still be behind or on top of something and marginally hard to reach. You don't need a GOOD hacker. Assisted Jump is automatic with no roll, so you just need any shmuck with a standard hacking device.
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Dec 24, 2014 22:03
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Yeah, it's on 3/4 of the hacking devices, you literally just need a (non assault) hacker. I'm curious to see if we get any rules changes in N3: HS because at the moment EVO Repeaters can really amp that poo poo up. If you bring an EVO, you can currently add +6PH to a jump roll at the cost of two orders. We've already seen someone do it here with Hellcats, using the new coordinating orders to mitigate some of the order cost when they deploy.
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Dec 24, 2014 22:17
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Flipswitch posted:Yeah, it's on 3/4 of the hacking devices, you literally just need a (non assault) hacker. This is somewhat mitigated by U-Turn being automatic, no roll, and cumulative, so against armies with multiple non-assault hackers (which I expect will be more common now than before) you're back to bad odds on combat jump. I think hackers will be the forward observers of this edition: Specialists people take because they are cheapish specialists whose stats don't matter in many cases.
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Dec 24, 2014 22:22
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I'm assuming you mean Hack Transport Aircraft? Not U-Turn? U-Turn is specific to guided weapons only. Hack Transport very much requires a roll. It's a FTF Roll of WIP-6 VS the PH of the jump model. So taking a AD:Combat Jump of PH12 (average) vs a WIP13 (average) model. You're talking a net result of: WIP7 Vs PH12 (Base). WIP7 Vs PH15 (Cont. Jump/EVO Assist). WIP7 Vs PH18 (Cont. Jump + EVO Assist). I do agree on hackers being better as specialists this edition, not entirely sure it's quite FO levels thanks to Targeted, but it's a lot closer than it was. Flipswitch fucked around with this message at 22:31 on Dec 24, 2014 |
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Dec 24, 2014 22:28
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JoshTheStampede posted:This is somewhat mitigated by U-Turn being automatic, no roll, and cumulative, so against armies with multiple non-assault hackers (which I expect will be more common now than before) you're back to bad odds on combat jump. You're thinking of the wrong program. U-Turn is automatic, but works against guided ammo - not combat jump. Hack Transport, which is anti-combat jump, gives you a WIP-6 face to face roll against the jumping unit's PH. Stats still matter.
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Dec 24, 2014 22:29
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Yep, sorry, I was thinking of Hack Transport. Which is still "free" in that it's an ARO that the hacker wouldn't otherwise get, but not as much of a worry in general.
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Dec 24, 2014 22:36
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Man I want those new HS profiles now. I want to play jump heavy ASA with this poo poo, it could be rad as gently caress with the amount of infiltration/mech deployment that sectorial has. I also really, really want to see how HS/CP profiles get adjusted with newer points scales, especially the TAGs. With the Cutter losing its ARO weapon, I'm curious to see if the Sphinx will get any changes as it's the other CH:TO TAG.
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Dec 24, 2014 23:16
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Flipswitch posted:Yup, was referring more to infantry armour though. That "fluff" isn't actually canon, it's something made up by a player to explain away why Ariadna HI would be EM vulnerable. They're not wearing exo-suits, they're wearing Tesseum infused body armour, which is supposed to be light as anything, yet very strong and durable. It's held on by straps, not an exo-skeleton, servo's or even cogs. It leaves them vulnerable to being Isolated, like anyone can be with E/M, but they shouldn't be able to be immobilised. As for E/M no longer damaging weapons, well it never did to ours anyway. Was part and parcel of playing Ariadna. You won't get extra wounds from Heavy Armour, but neither would you be as vulnerable. Just hoping they extend "Non Hackable" to including avoiding E/M immobilisation as well.
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Dec 25, 2014 01:26
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I know, I was more giving you an excuse reason for it for the inevitable "but it isn't fluffy" defense that the Ariadna subforum is using right now. There's no reason to change it back, it's part and parcel of the new ruleset. Sorry, but "non-hackable" reading complete immunity to high tech weaponry is no longer the case with N3.
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Dec 25, 2014 01:33
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Flipswitch posted:I know, I was more giving you an excuse reason for it for the inevitable "but it isn't fluffy" defense that the Ariadna subforum is using right now. I'm not playing Ariadna nor have I ever wanted to (except for that time that I made an army of 39 chain rifles Scotsmen + 1 Wallace on Army 4), but still, poop. Well, at least they're not getting hacked.
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Dec 25, 2014 04:21
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Yeah man, they're still immune to a lot of the offensive programs, but they be hit up by the more utility ones like Spotlight and stuff. also merry christmas goons! have a good one on me
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Dec 25, 2014 04:34
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Flipswitch posted:Yeah man, they're still immune to a lot of the offensive programs, but they be hit up by the more utility ones like Spotlight and stuff. Eh, Spotlight is less hacking and more like pressing Q on Battlefield. "Hey, look, there's an rear end in a top hat right there! GET HIM!". Or target painting, hacking devices all come with a laser pointer. Started as a tool to amuse hacker cats...
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Dec 25, 2014 05:51
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So the free rules on the website now are the new rules, right?
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Dec 25, 2014 06:55
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Yes.
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Dec 25, 2014 07:31
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Maybe Ariadna has started to use more tech bought on the black market since 2nd ed?
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Dec 25, 2014 09:57
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Considering none of our troops has any BTS whatsoever, I would think immunity to immobilisation wouldn't be asking too much for dudes who are humping around their gear on foot. Isolation, fine ("Ahh you shorted out my radio!"), but not immobilisation. Makes no sense game wise, and for a group of dudes who now has enemy HI with same movement, better wounds and other characteristics in the new game version, it's a bit weak. But who knows how it will go. Overall I really do love the changes N3 has brought about. I am really looking forward to giving it a go. And the HI rules annoy the poo poo out of me, I can then just run a bunch of MI instead.
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Dec 25, 2014 14:43
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All of your non Vet Kazak infantry are MI priced though, that's the trade off for not having those rules. Not to mention you also get Shock Immunity as standard on Ariadna HI and Shock is far more prelevant in N3. Upsides and downsides and all that.
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Dec 25, 2014 17:04
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I am not an Ariadna player, but I have to say I've always wondered why they even have HI units. For every other faction HI means "vulnerable to certain hacking things and E/M" and "has 2 wounds". As far as I know those are the only criteria (N2 had all the terrain slowing movement rules a bit different for LI/MI/HI, but that's gone now) so why aren't Ariadna HI just classed as MI, with high ARM and MOV values as applicable. Again, as far as I know none of them have a full 2W, and here we are hotly debating whether they should be vulnerable to E/M, and a rule is specially inserted specifying them as unhackable HI. I am completely baffled as to why they are not all just listed as MI. Apart from the rules issue debated above (perhaps the designers felt it crucial that they be E/M vulnerable, which seems weird) the only answer appears to be they wanted Ariadna players to have that comfort of not believing a cool troop type was off limits. I mean, it's an evocative term, Heavy Infantry. God knows I think they're cool. But really, rules wise, it would be simpler if Ariadna didn't have them.
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Dec 25, 2014 18:46
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I just painted my first Infinity figure, a fusilier. I ruined it with my shoddy painting and not following the official paint scheme. My shame knows no bounds 
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Dec 25, 2014 23:57
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Everybody starts somewhere. I have more than a few Warmahordes models that sit on my shelf, unused to this day because they were (unintentional) practice pieces. Infinity is legit different though, and requires a different approach from other minis games I've played. It's all about the washes with Infinity; the detail is so fine that I'd go stark raving mad trying to deal with the details by hand.
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Dec 26, 2014 00:02
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Corbeau posted:Everybody starts somewhere. I have more than a few Warmahordes models that sit on my shelf, unused to this day because they were (unintentional) practice pieces. Infinity is legit different though, and requires a different approach from other minis games I've played. It's all about the washes with Infinity; the detail is so fine that I'd go stark raving mad trying to deal with the details by hand. Yeah, I was really intimidated by Infinity minis, coming from 40k and then Malifaux, but weirdly I find them EASIER to paint because they're just SO wonderfully sculpted and have the perfect amount of detail where everything takes washes well but you aren't hitting seven skulls on every brushstroke. Trying out Angel's airbrush/brush hybrid style also helped a lot, my stuff is nowhere near as good as his but it's surprisingly easy to do it that way.
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Dec 26, 2014 00:06
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Yeah, I find the increase in model detail makes them easier to paint. More time consuming but it gives me more things to focus on with a model and as a result I find it tends to look better as I think about it quite a bit more too.
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Dec 26, 2014 00:11
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Speaking of painting, I've been working on my Magister Knight during the holidays. Decided to try my hand at lighting and sort-of-NMM:   I'm going for an Imperial Stormtrooper look on the armor. The knightly order is the Order of Dobrzyn, a Polish subset of the Teutonic Order (in the Infinity canon, they tend to guard the Teutons' logistical lifeline). The basing is intended to evoke Eastern European marshland.
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Dec 26, 2014 01:34
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That knight looks rad as gently caress. Great job.
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Dec 26, 2014 03:04
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Corbeau posted:Speaking of painting, I've been working on my Magister Knight during the holidays. Decided to try my hand at lighting and sort-of-NMM: I don't know how much love the Polish historically have towards the Teutons... I'm in somewhat of a pickle my self. While painting (and growing increasingly despondent over inability to do highlights or just painting) my current oath dudes I decided that I don't what my Marines (painting next month) to be just black and white, since God drat it, all of my miniatures are dark as gently caress. I want to paint some brightly colored marines, but my dudes are already basecoated black. What do I do, thread? The only color I've come up so far is orange, and that's because none of the founding chapters are orange. In the end, those guys are supposed to not!Deathwatch dudes played on Kill Team rules, representing a wandering/crusading a chapter that acts in mixed warbands (kill teams), their far travels accounting for the fact why they're so weird (as in, why each miniature has different chapter tactics, which is something you can do in KT Deathwatch).
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Dec 26, 2014 03:17
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JcDent posted:I don't know how much love the Polish historically have towards the Teutons... I don't know, but the historical Order of Dobrzyn was fairly quickly absorbed by the historical Teutonic Knights. JcDent posted:I'm in somewhat of a pickle my self. While painting (and growing increasingly despondent over inability to do highlights or just painting) my current oath dudes I decided that I don't what my Marines (painting next month) to be just black and white, since God drat it, all of my miniatures are dark as gently caress. I want to paint some brightly colored marines, but my dudes are already basecoated black. What do I do, thread? The only color I've come up so far is orange, and that's because none of the founding chapters are orange. Have you tried playing around with palleton? I find it quite helpful when thinking about color combinations for armies.
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Dec 26, 2014 04:11
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Quick Infinity question: How commonly do people place models not appearing in their list conspicuously near the game? e: For context, one of the people who attended my tournament complained that his round 2 Opponent placed quite a bit of AD chaff near the board edge, then was a bit shocked when Holoprojector started falling off things. Clawtopsy fucked around with this message at 01:46 on Dec 27, 2014 |
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Dec 27, 2014 01:36
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WAR FOOT posted:Quick Infinity question: How commonly do people place models not appearing in their list conspicuously near the game? I find that hilarious. As long as the list was legit, and - crucially! - was committed to before the game, I don't see a problem.
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Dec 27, 2014 02:14
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I think that's on the edge, but still ok. As alluded to by Corbeau, if, say, during his first turn the player took out an AD model, pretended to hesitate over it, then activated another model - while he didn't even have any AD, that crosses the line a bit. Infinity is a private information game, but that shouldn't mean lying to your opponent to mislead him. Having models out beforehand is a neat way of turning the normal course of events on its head though. Everyone scopes out their oppo's models to some extent, in my experience. Since that's technically not part of the rules either, what is wrong with the flip side?
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Dec 27, 2014 03:18
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Genghis Cohen posted:I think that's on the edge, but still ok. As alluded to by Corbeau, if, say, during his first turn the player took out an AD model, pretended to hesitate over it, then activated another model - while he didn't even have any AD, that crosses the line a bit. Infinity is a private information game, but that shouldn't mean lying to your opponent to mislead him. Having models out beforehand is a neat way of turning the normal course of events on its head though. Everyone scopes out their oppo's models to some extent, in my experience. Since that's technically not part of the rules either, what is wrong with the flip side? Yeah, actively faking that you have a model is too far, but just putting a bunch of extra models out is fine. I usually play with my case off to the side so I can get AD models as they come out, so that people don't know what I have because every model I own is in that case.
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Dec 27, 2014 03:26
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JoshTheStampede posted:Yeah, actively faking that you have a model is too far, but just putting a bunch of extra models out is fine. I usually play with my case off to the side so I can get AD models as they come out, so that people don't know what I have because every model I own is in that case. That's exactly what I do - keep all my models concealed as much as possible. I try not to be a dick and look at others' undeployed models too much either. I really like the way Infinity makes you guess at private info - holoprojectors are just an insane piece of kit in my mind - so why spoil it with the realities of 'I can see you have a swiss guard in hidden deployment, you've put the model out next to the table'.
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Dec 27, 2014 05:17
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Genghis Cohen posted:That's exactly what I do - keep all my models concealed as much as possible. I try not to be a dick and look at others' undeployed models too much either. I really like the way Infinity makes you guess at private info - holoprojectors are just an insane piece of kit in my mind - so why spoil it with the realities of 'I can see you have a swiss guard in hidden deployment, you've put the model out next to the table'. I do also play with people's expectations though. People at my store are terrified of Swiss Guard, so sometimes I will just leave a conspicuous 70ish point hole in my list (which is actually 2 Akalis or Croc Men or something) because I know they are expecting the ML Swiss.
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Dec 27, 2014 05:24
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Headgames are part of what make Infinity great, though. I deployed a Ninja Hacker as a Camo marker in my DZ, opponent assumed Raiden, walked their Raicho within 8", and the grim work began. Headgames.
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Dec 27, 2014 07:04
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