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Absurd Alhazred posted:In my left hand there is the guillotine, and in my right hand there is a bill for a global wealth tax. Do not let that bill fall out of my right hand. One day, the system will finally push too far and the people like me are going to loving murder every single man, woman, and child in the group people like me don't like. --Crazy people who should get mental help
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Dec 26, 2014 08:30
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on the left posted:One day, the system will finally push too far and the people like me are going to loving murder every single man, woman, and child in the group people like me don't like. --Crazy people who should get mental help --Crazy people with ponytails who should get mental health. loving christ, guilotine me if my only other option is a pony tail.
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Dec 26, 2014 08:31
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on the left posted:One day, the system will finally push too far and the people like me are going to loving murder every single man, woman, and child in the group people like me don't like. --Crazy people who should get mental help No, I'm pretty sure if there's a violent revolution, I will be in the first couple of waves of people guillotined. I am sorry you cannot appreciate situational humor. Might be the wrong medium for you, comedy forums. My Imaginary GF posted:--Crazy people with ponytails who should get mental health. That is just really under the belt (or over the collar?), Rahm. For shame.
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Dec 26, 2014 08:34
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My Imaginary GF posted:loving internet marxists, don't kill the rich, invent creative ways to increase their effective rate of taxation through novel and actionable policy solutions. If you're not intelligent enough to work through the system, either learn or quit urging others to give up because you feel left out. Guess what? World doesn't exist to make you happy, it exists to earn some loving money in. How empty.
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Dec 26, 2014 08:50
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Absurd Alhazred posted:No, I'm pretty sure if there's a violent revolution, I will be in the first couple of waves of people guillotined. I am sorry you cannot appreciate situational humor. Might be the wrong medium for you, comedy forums. Many people unironically believe there will be a great day of reckoning where undesirables are killed off. Neither race war, or a bloody proletarian revolution are coming.
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Dec 26, 2014 08:58
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on the left posted:Many people unironically believe there will be a great day of reckoning where undesirables are killed off. Neither race war, or a bloody proletarian revolution are coming. Hence a thread talking about fixing the class system without these. I mean, did you even read the OP? 
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Dec 26, 2014 09:00
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My Imaginary GF posted:loving internet marxists, don't kill the rich, invent creative ways to increase their effective rate of taxation through novel and actionable policy solutions. Sound and fury. E: you never explained how fewer campaign donors leads to economic reforms or how increasing campaign donation caps leads to less capital required to run an election. Miltank fucked around with this message at 09:08 on Dec 26, 2014 |
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Dec 26, 2014 09:04
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Miltank posted:Sound and fury. That's such a lazy and uncreative way to develop policy. loving christ, this thread is full of stereotypical leftists and lacks any appropriate sense of moderation and work ethic to effect policy implementation. Miltank posted:E: you never explained how fewer campaign donors leads to economic reforms or how increasing campaign donation caps leads to less capital required to run an election. Fewer donors = less donors to appease Increased contribution limits = increased donations through official channels and increased ability to generate leads
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Dec 26, 2014 09:09
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My Imaginary GF posted:That's such a lazy and uncreative way to develop policy. loving christ, this thread is full of stereotypical leftists and lacks any appropriate sense of moderation and work ethic to effect policy implementation. That's funny, because copping out and desperately signaling your wish to join the amoral snake masters seems like the ultimate laziness to me, a profound moral and ethical sloth beyond measuring.
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Dec 26, 2014 09:12
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SedanChair posted:That's funny, because copping out and desperately signaling your wish to join the amoral snake masters seems like the ultimate laziness to me, a profound moral and ethical sloth beyond measuring. hisss, hisssssss i will eat you I don't have a loving ponytail when I discuss policy positions. Apparently, non-violence is 'bowing down to your overlords' to you.
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Dec 26, 2014 09:13
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My Imaginary GF posted:hisss, hisssssss i will eat you Who let Curly out of his terrarium?!
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Dec 26, 2014 09:30
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My Imaginary GF posted:That's such a lazy and uncreative way to develop policy. loving christ, this thread is full of stereotypical leftists and lacks any appropriate sense of moderation and work ethic to effect policy implementation. It's sound and fury because no loving duh, that is the whole point of this thread- ways to tax capital out from under the ultra-wealthy. All the work ethic in the world isn't going to implement such policy without some sort of plan of action. A small number of campaign financiers to appease leads to economic reform how? That makes no sense.
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Dec 26, 2014 09:31
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Global median per-capita income is just under $3000. How many of you would be willing, as zero-sumbEJWs, to give up meat, cars, and other trappings of First-World lifestyle to live like the global working class and poor?
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Dec 26, 2014 14:32
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SedanChair posted:That's funny, because copping out and desperately signaling your wish to join the amoral snake masters seems like the ultimate laziness to me, a profound moral and ethical sloth beyond measuring. Buying into an extreme unacheivable ideology because it provides an infinite source of moral superiority and identity while shielding moral ambiguity is my definition of copping out.
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Dec 26, 2014 14:38
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TheImmigrant posted:Global median per-capita income is just under $3000. How many of you would be willing, as zero-sumbEJWs, to give up meat, cars, and other trappings of First-World lifestyle to live like the global working class and poor? Got it, only after the left has given up any power it wields will it be able to fix economic disparity. Now tell me the one where we're posting on an internet from devices created through capitalism so if we had any integrity we'd retreat to a forest and sharpen sticks.
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Dec 26, 2014 14:44
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Breakfast All Day posted:Got it, only after the left has given up any power it wields will it be able to fix economic disparity. Now tell me the one where we're posting on an internet from devices created through capitalism so if we had any integrity we'd retreat to a forest and sharpen sticks. Non-responsive.
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Dec 26, 2014 14:59
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asdf32 posted:Buying into an extreme unacheivable ideology because it provides an infinite source of moral superiority and identity while shielding moral ambiguity is my definition of copping out. The goal of neoliberalism is fundamentally unachievable.
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Dec 26, 2014 15:06
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In the short-term we should probably work a lot harder in actually taking the bribery out of politics. The United States seems somehow to have legalised it. That, and deeper engagement with local government, would really go a long way to improving the quality of debate about issues like class disparity, even if the results aren't the ones I want.
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Dec 26, 2014 15:20
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SedanChair posted:The goal of neoliberalism is fundamentally unachievable. I don't know which made-up goal you might be referring too, don't care about neoliberalism and think discussions of the intentionality of political/economic structures are invariably misguided. The goal of a political/economic structure is whatever the supporter thinks it is. Because of the frailty of the human brain this is inevitably some version of "everyone will be better off". Breakfast All Day posted:Got it, only after the left has given up any power it wields will it be able to fix economic disparity. Now tell me the one where we're posting on an internet from devices created through capitalism so if we had any integrity we'd retreat to a forest and sharpen sticks. If the left is going to make vague general appeals to kill and/or seize property from "the rich" it's important to get straight who the rich are. From a global perspective: all of us.
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Dec 26, 2014 15:52
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TheImmigrant posted:Global median per-capita income is just under $3000. How many of you would be willing, as zero-sumbEJWs, to give up meat, cars, and other trappings of First-World lifestyle to live like the global working class and poor? EJWs, you're not serious are you? SJW is dumb enough as a "anyone that cares about something I don't care about" moniker, we don't need another one for people who care about economic equality.
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Dec 26, 2014 16:33
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420DD Butts posted:EJWs, you're not serious are you? SJW is dumb enough as a "anyone that cares about something I don't care about" moniker, we don't need another one for people who care about economic equality. What is 'economic equality?' Equality of opportunity, or equality of outcome? They are radically different goals, and mutually exclusive.
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Dec 26, 2014 16:37
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TheImmigrant posted:Global median per-capita income is just under $3000. How many of you would be willing, as zero-sumbEJWs, to give up meat, cars, and other trappings of First-World lifestyle to live like the global working class and poor? The First World may have to take a reduction in quality of life but it wouldn't put us anywhere near the level of the global third world, especially as birth rates decline. The median global income is obviously a retarded number to use for the point you are making. A better number to look at might be a theoretical distribution of global capital which is currently sitting at around $34,000 per person. Miltank fucked around with this message at 16:49 on Dec 26, 2014 |
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Dec 26, 2014 16:46
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TheImmigrant posted:Global median per-capita income is just under $3000. How many of you would be willing, as zero-sumbEJWs, to give up meat, cars, and other trappings of First-World lifestyle to live like the global working class and poor? "Come on man, I vote Democrat. It's a real good thing." It's funny because the Democrats are the richest politicians AND have the wealthiest supporters.
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Dec 26, 2014 16:48
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TheImmigrant posted:What is 'economic equality?' Equality of opportunity, or equality of outcome? They are radically different goals, and mutually exclusive. In my experience the "equality of opportunity vs. equality of outcome" trope is code for "minorities will squander welfare because of their inferior culture." I'm sure you would disclaim this.
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Dec 26, 2014 16:50
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SedanChair posted:In my experience the "equality of opportunity vs. equality of outcome" trope is code for "minorities will squander welfare because of their inferior culture." I'm sure you would disclaim this. In my experience the "equality of opportunity vs. equality of outcome" trope is a nice-sounding platitude trotted out by rightwingers who are too dumb to realize that achieving an actual equality of opportunity would require a redistribution of income so massive that it would make a Marxist revolution look moderate in comparison.
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Dec 26, 2014 16:55
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SedanChair posted:In my experience the "equality of opportunity vs. equality of outcome" trope is code for "minorities will squander welfare because of their inferior culture." I'm sure you would disclaim this. Please don't do this here. Equality of opportunity vs. equality of outcome is hardly a dog whistle for Christ's sake. Just play it out, the thread is young. E:^ it is that.
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Dec 26, 2014 16:55
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Miltank posted:Please don't do this here. Equality of opportunity vs. equality of outcome is hardly a dog whistle for Christ's sake. Just play it out, the thread is young. Gosh I would feel self-conscious about declaring a favorite right-wing trope to be "not a dog whistle." After all, the point of a dog whistle is that not everyone can hear it. And some folks pick it up and blow it without knowing what it is. One can always count on appalled, David Brooks-esque liberals to provide cover for these racist ideologies through sheer ignorance.
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Dec 26, 2014 16:59
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TheImmigrant posted:Global median per-capita income is just under $3000. How many of you would be willing, as zero-sumbEJWs, to give up meat, cars, and other trappings of First-World lifestyle to live like the global working class and poor? 
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Dec 26, 2014 17:11
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Cerebral Bore posted:In my experience the "equality of opportunity vs. equality of outcome" trope is a nice-sounding platitude trotted out by rightwingers who are too dumb to realize that achieving an actual equality of opportunity would require a redistribution of income so massive that it would make a Marxist revolution look moderate in comparison. Not at all. In my experience, 'rightwinger' as used here is a meaningless epithet used by the Che Brigade, synonymous with and as deep as 'uncool and not one of the gang.' Equality of opportunity as a concept recognizes people as individuals, with varying degrees of motivation and ability. To achieve it would require a heavy estate tax (with exceptions, notably for family farms) and massive overhaul of educational funding as it exists in the US. It has built-in incentives to the gifted, the motivated, and the ambitious, who are the natural drivers of progress. Equality of outcome as a policy goal necessarily hamstrings those drivers, for the benefit of the mediocre and the feckless. I know this is appealing to layabout neckbeard goons who think that Posting and Armchair Revolutionary Activities should be compensated more than Software Engineering or Medical Research, but this is an issue where we part ways. But yes, in anticipatory rebuttal, I am a rightwing poopypantery fuckface. Really, I have no response to this devastating demolition of my point.
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Dec 26, 2014 17:13
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My Imaginary GF posted:That's such a lazy and uncreative way to develop policy. loving christ, this thread is full of stereotypical leftists and lacks any appropriate sense of moderation and work ethic to effect policy implementation. "Why won't these people stop suggesting things with a proven track record, and instead shut up, move to the united states, gain citizenship, and vote for the slightly less actively dangerous party that's full of insane millionaires who'll never help anyone? It's so irrational!" - forums user My Imaginary GF
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Dec 26, 2014 17:14
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HorseLord posted:"Why won't these people stop suggesting things with a proven track record, and instead shut up, move to the united states, gain citizenship, and vote for the slightly less actively dangerous party that's full of insane millionaires who'll never help anyone? It's so irrational!" - forums user My Imaginary GF When you put it that way, why don't they?
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Dec 26, 2014 17:17
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SedanChair posted:Gosh I would feel self-conscious about declaring a favorite right-wing trope to be "not a dog whistle." After all, the point of a dog whistle is that not everyone can hear it. And some folks pick it up and blow it without knowing what it is. Equality of opportunity vs. equality of outcome wasn't invented by conservatism. If ideological concepts are tools then this is one which can serve as a dog whistle, but that is certainly not it's only function. If we are discussing ways to create a radically egalitarian society, then questions of opportunity vs. outcome are not out of place or suspicious.
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Dec 26, 2014 17:18
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They're suspicious when in the mouth of a poster who's done nothing but characterize the thread as fantasies of butchering the rich. Can you really not keep track of it?TheImmigrant posted:Not at all. In my experience, 'rightwinger' as used here is a meaningless epithet used by the Che Brigade, synonymous with and as deep as 'uncool and not one of the gang.' Family farms, what a joke. Estate taxes never have affected real family farms (as opposed to the vast holdings of millionaire investors) but by all means keep barfing up right-wing talking points while at the same time acting as if there is no smidgen of puke adhering to the corner of your mouth. By no means use a napkin to wipe your mouth.
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Dec 26, 2014 17:21
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Miltank posted:Equality of opportunity vs. equality of outcome wasn't invented by conservatism. If ideological concepts are tools then this is one which can serve as a dog whistle, but that is certainly not it's only function. If we are discussing ways to create a radically egalitarian society, then questions of opportunity vs. outcome are not out of place or suspicious. It's a fundamental issue in how we define 'radically egalitarian society.' There are two concepts of equality, and they are mutually exclusive. Ignoring the issue is intellectual cowardice. SedanChair posted:Jerk detected! This user is on your ignore list, click to view post anyway Being able to ignore mindlessly sloganeering muppets who are unable to post anything but predigested talking points is a wonderful feature to this forum.
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Dec 26, 2014 17:25
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TheImmigrant posted:I enjoy hanging out in fora where I disagree with Prevailing Thought. But if I see too many things that make bad brainfeel, I will put tape on my monitor so I don't have to see it. My thoughts are so robust. e: These are the tactics of upper-class aspirants and defenders, first to bring out Reaganite lies in sequence, then to pretend that Reagan doesn't live in your mouth, finally to characterize every opponent of plundering the country's infrastructure and human capital of being Che. They're obsessed with Che, oh look an avatar of Che. woke wedding drone fucked around with this message at 17:34 on Dec 26, 2014 |
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Dec 26, 2014 17:27
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TheImmigrant posted:It's a fundamental issue in how we define 'radically egalitarian society.' There are two concepts of equality, and they are mutually exclusive. This is yet to be shown. The two things are obviously in a relationship that is not necessarily exclusive, as in our society the advantages of wealth tend to stack and propagate generationally.
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Dec 26, 2014 17:30
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Invent a time machine. Travel back to 1066 and make the Normans lose the Battle of Hastings. The Normans wouldn't conquer England, meaning that Britain as we know it in the early 1600s wouldn't exist, meaning that America wouldn't be colonised in quite the same way, meaning the American Revolution and subsequent foundation of the United States wouldn't have happened. Without an established class system, you have nothing to fix. Granted, America would still be colonised by somebody, but I doubt it would develop into the USA as we know it today.
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Dec 26, 2014 17:44
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Venomous posted:Invent a time machine. Travel back to 1066 and make the Normans lose the Battle of Hastings. The Normans wouldn't conquer England, meaning that Britain as we know it in the early 1600s wouldn't exist, meaning that America wouldn't be colonised in quite the same way, meaning the American Revolution and subsequent foundation of the United States wouldn't have happened. Without an established class system, you have nothing to fix. Granted, America would still be colonised by somebody, but I doubt it would develop into the USA as we know it today. No colonial power had colonies with better post-independence outcomes than Britain.
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Dec 26, 2014 18:02
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Venomous posted:Invent a time machine. Travel back to 1066 and make the Normans lose the Battle of Hastings. The Normans wouldn't conquer England, meaning that Britain as we know it in the early 1600s wouldn't exist, meaning that America wouldn't be colonised in quite the same way, meaning the American Revolution and subsequent foundation of the United States wouldn't have happened. Without an established class system, you have nothing to fix. Granted, America would still be colonised by somebody, but I doubt it would develop into the USA as we know it today. America developing solely as a mixture of French and Spanish cultures would be the kind of alternate-universe that I'd love to live in. 
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Dec 26, 2014 18:30
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You say that like there's no class system in France today.
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Dec 26, 2014 18:35
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