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Yeah when I posted it I was thinking about the pushes you can get on more organized servers that revolve around a well-timed sap. Maybe the other team instantly notices and kills the spy, but now their sentry is disabled and a whole bunch of guys are rushing at them.
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Dec 26, 2014 20:17
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The sad thing about the Short Circuit is its design implies there was a corresponding robotic glove-looking metal gunslinger hand model that unfolds into this weapon but it will never see the light of day. engineer can be a fun class but by design it is a go-to class for new players who can't aim regular guns so it trades mobility for performance a notch beyond the next most bad-friendly class down the line and so on through the spectrum until you get to the good classes.
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Dec 26, 2014 20:25
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Yeah the idea was that it gives the rest of the team time to push and/or destroy the sentry, even if the spy is killed. With the current sapper it's kind of pointless to sap a sentry unless you also manage to kill the engineer because it's removed so quickly. That it royally fucks minisentries is of course merely a coincidence. 
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Dec 26, 2014 20:27
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Generally speaking the less mobile a class is the worse the people who gravitate to that class are going to be. And that's a fact you can take to the bank.
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Dec 26, 2014 20:28
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That's stupid. The solider has horrible mobility but you can exploit rocket physics to make him move faster. Theory destroyed.
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Dec 26, 2014 20:33
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If valve was going to do a sapper with that kind of design, I suspect it'd end up more like this: + Sapper has +200% health + Reduces sentry fire rate by 90% - Does not disable or damage sentry So it'd serve the purpose of making the sentry easier for other classes to shoot at for a significant period of time, but it'd still be technically up-and-running, and engineers who are very far from their sentry would have a choice to destroy the thing. notZaar posted:That's stupid. The solider has horrible mobility but you can exploit rocket physics to make him move faster. Theory destroyed. Ditocoaf fucked around with this message at 20:41 on Dec 26, 2014 |
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Dec 26, 2014 20:37
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It's pretty hard to balance highly mobile classes (including soldier and demoman here) alongside hardly mobile classes for both low level and high level play. Valve seem to balance nearly exclusively for low to average skilled pub servers nowadays, which is a quick way of satisfying the majority of current players, but things start to break down once you get to better pub servers and above, with people who have played for hundreds or thousands of hours. Once you're playing against people who actually know how to exploit these weapons, to shut down most of a team push with the short circuit, or bomb a medic from anywhere on the map with the beggar's bazooka and unleash 2 rockets super quickly to make them drop uber before they can react, it gets really unfun to play against.
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Dec 26, 2014 20:47
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RE: Short Circut chat, I find that on paper the SC seems like it would be absolute hell to play against. However, in practice it often doesn't just shut everything down because if you just spam M1 and fry all the projectiles (at 25 metal a pop), you'll be out of metal incredibly quickly and then vulnerable and with no ability to repair your sentry before resupplying. Unless you're able to camp a metal drop, but that limits your placement and means you probably have to step aside for a moment to resupply. It's fairly easy to shut down a lone SC engie with spam. In order to fully counter a demo the engie needs to be 100% accurate and properly timed to fry a full clip of stickies, and the demo still has pipes. The real problem exists when you have a couple engies and one is covering the other with the SC. Still difficult, but not that much harder than a competent pybro or a Heavy that knows how to clear stickies.
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Dec 26, 2014 21:10
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Zero! posted:Valve seem to balance nearly exclusively for low to average skilled pub servers nowadays This gets said a lot but they have never fixed the fact that a team that has more than 3 heavies will always beat a team that does not in pubs.
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Dec 26, 2014 21:39
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cock hero flux posted:This gets said a lot but they have never fixed the fact that a team that has more than 3 heavies will always beat a team that does not in pubs. That's not true at all. I played against a team who were running 5 heavies in a tight cluster (it was a gimmick) and they lost every time.
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Dec 26, 2014 21:42
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cock hero flux posted:This gets said a lot but they have never fixed the fact that a team that has more than 3 heavies will always beat a team that does not in pubs. Not always, if the other team has a pubstar sniper or something at least a few of those heavies are going to get mowed down.
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Dec 26, 2014 21:42
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For me the short circuit is a holdout. You keep soldiers and demos from shooting directly into your poo poo and wait until a teammate comes and kills them. Its also fun to see a huntsman panic though that rarely happens.
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Dec 26, 2014 21:56
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Balancing the heavy is a problem in itself, but in the opposite way to most of the aforementioned things. It's fairly easy to pick up, great at low to average skill pub servers but once the skill level gets high enough, the heavy's potential drops off massively. Pretty much every class has high level capabilities (often movement related) that clearly separate what a person new to playing that class is able to do and what a veteran is able to pull off but heavy (and to a lesser extent engineer) can often be very much the same play style from low level pubs to competitive play. If the heavy is to be made worse for low level play to lessen heavy team stacks that seem to be complained about here often enough, there needs to be some kind of skill mechanic in-game that lets veteran players have the potential to do a lot more or no one will ever want to play it
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Dec 26, 2014 21:59
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I don't find heavies that good on pub games just because so many people go sniper and even really bad snipers can slaughter heavies. Occasionally the stars align and you play against a team with no snipers and just steamroll them, but that's pretty rare. I find it's usually a matter of "turn a game that would be an easy win into a laughably trivial win" rather than a class that actually turns a balanced game into a won one.
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Dec 26, 2014 22:50
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Zero! posted:Balancing the heavy is a problem in itself, but in the opposite way to most of the aforementioned things. It's fairly easy to pick up, great at low to average skill pub servers but once the skill level gets high enough, the heavy's potential drops off massively. Pretty much every class has high level capabilities (often movement related) that clearly separate what a person new to playing that class is able to do and what a veteran is able to pull off but heavy (and to a lesser extent engineer) can often be very much the same play style from low level pubs to competitive play. If the heavy is to be made worse for low level play to lessen heavy team stacks that seem to be complained about here often enough, there needs to be some kind of skill mechanic in-game that lets veteran players have the potential to do a lot more or no one will ever want to play it Yeah pretty much. The Heavy nerf was good for low level play, but it killed him in high level play. He wasn't that great to begin with there either, so he's pretty bad now. Asking for the Heavy to be nerfed even more is crazy talk.
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Dec 26, 2014 22:55
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You'd think the swarms of bad pub spies and snipers would counteract the mighty heavy-roll, but somehow it never really does unless one of the snipers is actually good It might be because if there is a good player playing on the server, half the time they're just there to screw with the bad snipers while using dumb gimmick loadouts
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Dec 26, 2014 23:06
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ninjewtsu posted:You'd think the swarms of bad pub spies and snipers would counteract the mighty heavy-roll, but somehow it never really does unless one of the snipers is actually good A little while ago I spent a fun round on doublecross sniping at a heavy/medic combo. I shot them in the head, and when I failed to stop the heavy from getting into our basement I intercepted him with the buskwacka because he was using the GRU to get there. They quit after a while. I love killing pubstar heavies,
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Dec 26, 2014 23:22
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Make a sapper that doesn't destroy a building but instead makes it turn on the other team for a while. THAT would be fun. Let's see you baby that thing now you gibus-toting dork.
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Dec 27, 2014 00:23
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ninjewtsu posted:You'd think the swarms of bad pub spies and snipers would counteract the mighty heavy-roll, but somehow it never really does unless one of the snipers is actually good It's easy to headshot a heavy. It is less easy to kill 4 heavies while 2 of them are constantly shooting you and pub snipers aren't good enough to not get shot all the time when there are that many bullets going around.
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Dec 27, 2014 00:44
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Now that i've really gotten a few good hours playing now, I reckon the most BS thing is the zoom-in Demo charge, god so loving irritating. Not so bad when pyro, but poo poo i'd rather get headshotted by a sniper or sentried than auto-zoom-killed.
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Dec 27, 2014 00:58
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I've turned it into a game to get demoknights to charge towards me when I'm standing by the edge of a cliff and swiftly sidestep them.
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Dec 27, 2014 01:08
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I wouldn't. I think my least favorite thing about demoknights is that fighting them is a little unintuitive. My first instinct is to go "poo poo he's about to charge me, better back up I don't want to get hit" but I don't realize until later that because I moved farther away, he was able to get the guaranteed crit
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Dec 27, 2014 01:08
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I don't get how it works, does it actually lock on? I have angled around sharp corners and have gone up steps (the steps in 2fort for example) and have still been killed even though he shouldn't be able to turn so sharply (aka 180) while turning. Nothin a sweet airblast won't fix 
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Dec 27, 2014 01:27
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There's a small period right after the charge ends when he has full turning but will still get the crit. Also the tide turner exists.
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Dec 27, 2014 01:28
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simosimo posted:I don't get how it works, does it actually lock on? I have angled around sharp corners and have gone up steps (the steps in 2fort for example) and have still been killed even though he shouldn't be able to turn so sharply (aka 180) while turning. The tide turner can turn on a dime. But you don't need to worry about that unless you don't see them until they've killed you since any amount of damage will stop a tide turner charge on the spot because it sucks now.
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Dec 27, 2014 01:30
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simosimo posted:I don't get how it works, does it actually lock on? I have angled around sharp corners and have gone up steps (the steps in 2fort for example) and have still been killed even though he shouldn't be able to turn so sharply (aka 180) while turning. The shield-charge doesn't lock on, they have to steer with the mouse. There are three shields: The Chargin' Targe and Splendid Screen can't really turn much -- the demoman will fly in a straight line. But the Tide Turner (looks like a ship's steering wheel) lets the demoman turn sharply and basically go anywhere. Their charge ends when they swing their melee weapon, use the full distance, hit a wall, or bash into you. They get a critical swing with their melee immediately after they bash into you. If they end the charge with a weapon-swing when they've gone almost the full distance, that is also a critical hit. Ditocoaf fucked around with this message at 02:01 on Dec 27, 2014 |
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Dec 27, 2014 01:54
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ninjewtsu posted:I wouldn't. doesnt really matter since all shields have a random glitched ability to instacrit at any distance anyways
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Dec 27, 2014 01:56
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yourafagpleasedie posted:doesnt really matter since all shields have a random glitched ability to instacrit at any distance anyways I'm pretty sure it's intended behavior. If you bash someone with the shield, your weapon does a crit right afterward. The bash only does damage if you've gone far enough, but there are two ways to get a crit swing: bashing into someone (whether or not the bash does damage), or charging the full distance (whether or not you bash into someone).
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Dec 27, 2014 02:05
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Whenever I go sniper against a bunch of heavies someone usually goes medic and uses the vaccinator. I'm not sure what they were thinking with that weapon passively removing one of the only ways to kill heavy. I feel like if it spawned set to fire resistance instead of bullet resistance it wouldn't be as bad of a problem because most of the people I see run it move like they are driving a tank and have no reaction to anything you do to them.
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Dec 27, 2014 02:13
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Ditocoaf posted:I'm pretty sure it's intended behavior. If you bash someone with the shield, your weapon does a crit right afterward. The bash only does damage if you've gone far enough, but there are two ways to get a crit swing: bashing into someone (whether or not the bash does damage), or charging the full distance (whether or not you bash into someone). It probably was a glitch that they decided to just leave in as it was introduced when the Splendid Screen was added to the game but it was not a documented change.
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Dec 27, 2014 02:17
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simosimo posted:Now that i've really gotten a few good hours playing now, I reckon the most BS thing is the zoom-in Demo charge, god so loving irritating. Not so bad when pyro, but poo poo i'd rather get headshotted by a sniper or sentried than auto-zoom-killed. I like the zoom and smack with the caber. The caber doesn't crit automatically on a charge, but I still can kill low health classes easy. Usually I aim for and take out the medic then mop up. On another note, the duck journal CAN level past 20, but it keeps the name "Quackston's Own." 
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Dec 27, 2014 04:18
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Ways to take down a short circuit engineer: - Team up with other soldiers and demos and send so much poo poo flying his way that he can't stop all of them - Team up with a non-retard sniper and have him pick off the engineer or ding at the sentry while sending your rockets/grenades at him, he cant deal with your projectiles and heal his sentry - Team up with a spy and have him sap the sentry while you destroy it - Team up with a medic and block the sentry with an ubercharge while your teammates destroy it Oh wait I forgot all of these are about teamwork and the complaints about engineers are all in the context of someone shutting down your pubstomping solo spree
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Dec 27, 2014 06:20
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There are a lot of places where a sniper simply can't get in line of sight of a sentry without being shot by it or having to basically stand in the enemy's spawn, but they are the best option for dealing with short circuit engineers otherwise.Fojar38 posted:Oh wait I forgot all of these are about teamwork and the complaints about engineers are all in the context of someone shutting down your pubstomping solo spree
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Dec 27, 2014 07:23
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I think the heavy should be immune to the pyro's airblast
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Dec 27, 2014 07:56
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How do Collector's Chem sets work again? I think you don't get a collectifier or whatever afterwards so I'm curious how people get strange versions. This is just because I can't remember and it's bothering me, btw. No one try to offer things to help me make one.
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Dec 27, 2014 08:06
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I think they just give you a collector version of the weapon/cosmetic and the only way you can then make that strange is with a strangifier.
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Dec 27, 2014 08:16
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Fojar38 posted:Oh wait I forgot all of these are about teamwork and the complaints about engineers are all in the context of someone shutting down your pubstomping solo spree I'm sick of this coming up as an excuse for poorly balanced and stupid poo poo that Valve has put in the game. "Teamwork" does not mean "requiring multiple people to kill one single player", that's lazy loving game design. Teamwork in Team Fortress is meant to revolve around a team of people fighting a team of people. When there's such a major balancing issue that the offensive classes need to stack up in groups of three just to bust through a single player's "defenses" then there's a fundamental issue with game balance. The Short Circuit user is the guiltiest of being mister "pubstomping solo spree" because the Short Circuit is a replacement for the class that's already meant to reflect/destroy projectiles. Having that kind of defense for a sentry nest is balanced by requiring 2 out of 12 people babysit the nest, but with an Engie able to cover all of that by himself, it rewards the same style of Engineer play that makes the game more tedious instead of more fun.
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Dec 27, 2014 08:22
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ninjewtsu posted:You'd think the swarms of bad pub spies and snipers would counteract the mighty heavy-roll, but somehow it never really does unless one of the snipers is actually good The problem is, a lot of these heavies are on 300ms links and move around like morph.
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Dec 27, 2014 08:29
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death .cab for qt posted:I'm sick of this coming up as an excuse for poorly balanced and stupid poo poo that Valve has put in the game. "Teamwork" does not mean "requiring multiple people to kill one single player", that's lazy loving game design. Teamwork in Team Fortress is meant to revolve around a team of people fighting a team of people. A single player that has next to no offensive capability unless they're a mini-sentry engineer in which case the short circuit is an active hindrance. That's the tradeoff of playing an engineer; very powerful defenses but no real offensive capability aside from supporting your team with teleporters or dispensers. Picking Short Circuit + Rescue Ranger is the most defensive loadout possible but you will never, ever be able to go on offense with it unless the rest of your team is actively guarding you while you move that gear up or something. I don't think that it's a bad thing that multiple players are often required to work together to get past a class that is purely defensive, because if one player could stomp them and their defenses the class would literally be useless, especially if the Engineer has spent the time required to even get a meaningful sentry nest up.
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Dec 27, 2014 08:29
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| # ? Jun 8, 2024 15:29 |
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Did you know that Red doesn't need offense.
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Dec 27, 2014 08:31
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