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Tab8715 posted:On the same subject is Windows Server DHCP the most widely used DHCP Service? It seems immensely popular and I've never seen anything else dishing out addresses. I'm sure in windows shops it is. Doubtful anywhere else though. I wouldn't use it on a huge network.
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# ? Dec 28, 2014 12:15 |
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# ? Jun 1, 2024 06:24 |
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Zero VGS posted:Please don't run a DHCP server on Windows, use your L3 switch or router. Jesus loving christ..
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# ? Dec 28, 2014 12:52 |
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Tab8715 posted:On the same subject is Windows Server DHCP the most widely used DHCP Service? It seems immensely popular and I've never seen anything else dishing out addresses. I use Zentyal at home because I'm a nerd but Windows DHCP comes out of the box with easy to use filters, multiple scope assignments, premade options, WDS support, etc. e: https://www.ietf.org/rfc/rfc2132.txt I'm going to use a monitor and a mouse thanks for the advice though Roargasm fucked around with this message at 14:46 on Dec 28, 2014 |
# ? Dec 28, 2014 14:30 |
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Is this whole dhcp chat not some confusion about ip-helper ?
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# ? Dec 28, 2014 14:51 |
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Tab8715 posted:On the same subject is Windows Server DHCP the most widely used DHCP Service? It seems immensely popular and I've never seen anything else dishing out addresses.
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# ? Dec 28, 2014 15:07 |
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adorai posted:I would guess that dhcpd is the most popular, since it ships on every linksys and netgear router. Windows DHCP is probably the most popular in businesses above 50 users. You got that backwards. Dhcpd is the most popular but once you get above 50 users you're going back to dhcpd.
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# ? Dec 28, 2014 15:26 |
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Of all the things to get spergy about... Come be in IT! Isn't this wonderful? We have MULTIPLE sections on the forums to be pedantic about this stuff. Also: spanning tree what what? Bhodi fucked around with this message at 15:29 on Dec 28, 2014 |
# ? Dec 28, 2014 15:27 |
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I've always seen it deployed on the local domain controller or DNS server, with whatever device is handling layer 3 functions relaying requests via ip helper.
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# ? Dec 28, 2014 15:39 |
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jaegerx posted:You got that backwards. Dhcpd is the most popular but once you get above 50 users you're going back to dhcpd. I've been in multiple enterprise environments, including fortune 50 environments, and never seen anything other than windows dhcp (except for the one place that still had novell running, lol).
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# ? Dec 28, 2014 15:53 |
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I don't care, I highly doubt it, but whatever I've been wrong before. I really doubt Apple is running Windows DHCP but whatever. Point Click have fun.
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# ? Dec 28, 2014 16:19 |
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skooky posted:Jesus loving christ.. Oh screw you guys, never in my life have I seen anything go wrong with DHCP on a catalyst, but I've also done a decade of Windows 2003 dhcp servers and holy hell why would you trust your network's connectivity to anything running Windows? Full disclosure, my shop is currently running DHCP on Windows and both the other IT guy and me took one look and both said yeah we gotta put this on the switches. What is the big objection? That it is harder to manage? adorai posted:I've been in multiple enterprise environments, including fortune 50 environments, and never seen anything other than windows dhcp (except for the one place that still had novell running, lol). I came into a fortune 500 a few years back and for a year straight we were running static addresses with a spreadsheet. The Windows DCs were so hosed that a CCIE couldn't even figure out why they were slow to assign IPs or failed altogether, he was the guy who eventually put DHCP on the core switch and all was right in the world.
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# ? Dec 28, 2014 16:20 |
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I don't disagree with your comments but Zero VGS posted:The Windows DCs were so hosed that a CCIE couldn't even figure out that you even asked him to try, of course he instantly went "gently caress this gui poo poo" and stuck it on what he knows. Bhodi fucked around with this message at 16:29 on Dec 28, 2014 |
# ? Dec 28, 2014 16:26 |
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I'm sure a totally hosed switch also does a pretty bad job at DHCP, I don't get your point. Running DHCP on Windows allows you to have redundancy, it's all included in your existing backups, anyone who can use Windows Server can reserve addresses, and it all ties in nicely with DNS so people don't have to gently caress around with IP addresses, which is important if we ever go to IPv6. I've never seen a reason not to let Windows handle DHCP duties, even less so since Server 2012. Obviously this assumes you're running a Windows network (AD etc.) before someone gets all about that.
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# ? Dec 28, 2014 16:28 |
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Holy poo poo the DHCP rage. Use what is best for your environment and move on (As long as you're not running your business DHCP on a WRT54G ). We're a Windows shop where I'm the only admin with non-Windows experience. We want redundancy, policies, and ease-of-use. We're using Windows 2012 DHCP. Them's the breaks.
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# ? Dec 28, 2014 16:41 |
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Thanks Ants posted:Running DHCP on Windows allows you to have redundancy, it's all included in your existing backups, anyone who can use Windows Server can reserve addresses, and it all ties in nicely with DNS so people don't have to gently caress around with IP addresses, which is important if we ever go to IPv6. Counterpoint, switches can easily have redundancy too, and your switch/router configs had drat well better be in your existing backups. Bhodi posted:I don't disagree with your comments but To be fair we were just trying to get back in spec with the rest of the organization and they have the CCIE guys basically on-call so we figured might as well have him take a crack at it. I dunno, maybe my Windows servers have blue-screened one too many dozen times and I just can't trust them to actually serve any more.
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# ? Dec 28, 2014 17:04 |
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Zero VGS posted:Counterpoint, switches can easily have redundancy too, and your switch/router configs had drat well better be in your existing backups. Not trying to feed the fires here, but is there a way to centrally manage all your DHCP configs? Just sounds like you're going to have a lot of switches with unique configs that you need to juggle. Our environment has two Win2k12 DHCP servers in dynamic failover mode, and all our routers and layer 3 switches just IP-Helper to them. That way, I only make a DHCP change once, and it applies to all of our sites, and is redundant and backed up regularly.
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# ? Dec 28, 2014 17:21 |
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Zero VGS posted:I dunno, maybe my Windows servers have blue-screened one too many dozen times and I just can't trust them to actually serve any more. Not to get into a pissing contest but servers these days just don't blue screen for fun - if they are, and given your comments about how unreliable your Windows DHCP server are, it might say more about something in your Windows environment than it does Windows DHCP as a product.
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# ? Dec 28, 2014 17:28 |
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Bitch Stewie posted:Not to get into a pissing contest but servers these days just don't blue screen for fun - if they are, and given your comments about how unreliable your Windows DHCP server are, it might say more about something in your Windows environment than it does Windows DHCP as a product. I understand his argument where if you want something with a few million years' uptime, you'd use Cisco IOS or a *nix of some sort. I've built a DHCPD server or two about 6 years ago that I'm pretty sure are still running. Hell, I get a little nervous when I see a Windows server with an uptime longer than 100 days... like it's some sort of glitchy time bomb. Completely unfounded, I know, but the reputation is there and it's hard to shake.
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# ? Dec 28, 2014 17:35 |
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Some things only let you pick one IP helper / DHCP relay target
Thanks Ants fucked around with this message at 17:43 on Dec 28, 2014 |
# ? Dec 28, 2014 17:36 |
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Zero VGS posted:To be fair we were just trying to get back in spec with the rest of the organization and they have the CCIE guys basically on-call so we figured might as well have him take a crack at it. Well of course a CCIE is going to say "use this Cisco solution". And if you have CCIEs there, odds are you have people who should be able figure out WHY the Windows servers are BSOD all the time. "I dunno, just don't trust those shifty-eyed Windows Servers" is not a root cause. BSODs happen for a reason, it may be obscure, but there is always a reason.
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# ? Dec 28, 2014 17:40 |
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Lord Dudeguy posted:I understand his argument where if you want something with a few million years' uptime, you'd use Cisco IOS or a *nix of some sort. I've built a DHCPD server or two about 6 years ago that I'm pretty sure are still running. So just run a pair like you would domain controllers or anything with a SPOF. I'm not trying to claim that Windows is more stable, reliable, whatever term you want to use than a switch/router where the vendor has 100% control over the code and hardware, but in an AD environment, given how nicely Windows DHCP and DNS integrates, I'd need a compelling reason not to use them. Plus the way it was written kind of sounded like "The Cisco guy said we should use Cisco" which is little bit like saying Turkeys don't vote for Christmas
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# ? Dec 28, 2014 17:44 |
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Lord Dudeguy posted:I understand his argument where if you want something with a few million years' uptime, you'd use Cisco IOS or a *nix of some sort. I've built a DHCPD server or two about 6 years ago that I'm pretty sure are still running. DCHPD is something else, and I don't see anyone saying that's a bad idea (it isn't). What is dumbfounding is the idea that a switch is good place to host a dhcp server in any kind of robust network. The only time I might consider it is if I'm rolling out, say, 100s or 1000s of identical retail environments (same VLAN design, same subnets, etc...) and NATing back in to the DC. Even then, I'd probably look at setting up a little 1U BSD/Linux/Windows server to handle things like trap forwarding, forwarding syslogs to an aggregator and DHCP.
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# ? Dec 28, 2014 17:44 |
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Zero VGS posted:Oh screw you guys, never in my life have I seen anything go wrong with DHCP on a catalyst, but I've also done a decade of Windows 2003 dhcp servers and holy hell why would you trust your network's connectivity to anything running Windows? Zero VGS posted:Full disclosure, my shop is currently running DHCP on Windows and both the other IT guy and me took one look and both said yeah we gotta put this on the switches. Zero VGS posted:What is the big objection? That it is harder to manage? By no stretch does everything need to be Windows, though DHCP in 2012 is leaps and bounds ahead of most other offerings. But ISC dhcpd and the various wrappers like Infoblox or Men and Mice are much better, much more full-featured offerings than the bullshit you're gonna get from your core. Zero VGS posted:I came into a fortune 500 a few years back and for a year straight we were running static addresses with a spreadsheet. The Windows DCs were so hosed that a CCIE couldn't even figure out why they were slow to assign IPs or failed altogether, he was the guy who eventually put DHCP on the core switch and all was right in the world. Vulture Culture fucked around with this message at 18:05 on Dec 28, 2014 |
# ? Dec 28, 2014 17:56 |
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if you havin' dhcp problems i feel bad for you son i got 99 problems, but bad windows admins aint one
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# ? Dec 28, 2014 18:08 |
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Got it. I was just afraid I was about to venture into crazy-town here with the heated pro/anti-2012 argument. 2012 w/ IP-Helper remains King Under the Mountain for me.
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# ? Dec 28, 2014 18:12 |
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I so want to be the infrastructure guy now that puts in a purchase order for layer 3 switches and justifies it with "for DHCP, duh"
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# ? Dec 29, 2014 01:38 |
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A reminder to make sure you backup your DHCP databases off box if you're using routers/switches instead of servers!
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# ? Dec 29, 2014 05:59 |
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Misogynist posted:Infoblox Holy gently caress someone else has heard of Infoblox I used to work at a moderately large ISP (not Comcast huge, but > 100,000 customers) and they were all in on Infoblox for DHCP and IPAM. Mostly because of the slick GUI and API, since anything having an actual API in like 2008 was semi impressive. We (and by we I mean the horrible executives that drove me to quit) paid them an enormous amount of money per box, like a 20x markup on what the hardware alone must have cost. Wonder if they've changed their business model since in today's market there can't be that many idiots willing to pay $alot for a loving ISC DHCP appliance.
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# ? Dec 29, 2014 07:31 |
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Docjowles posted:Holy gently caress someone else has heard of Infoblox Server 2012 as a DHCP server is amazing for no other reason than that PowerShell is not a complete piece of poo poo (and the cmdlets are actually, in general, rather good). The only thing keeping it from going from good to great as a complete solution is the total lack of IPAM features. Vulture Culture fucked around with this message at 07:48 on Dec 29, 2014 |
# ? Dec 29, 2014 07:45 |
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Misogynist posted:I'm laughing at the notion that InfoBlox's API was "actual." You mean that thing with binary blobs called from Perl, where each successive firmware release is incompatible with all other API library versions, and the only way to test that your scripts will continue working is to break your cluster and try a new version pair? ... yes Apparently I'd repressed quite how awful it was. It's all flooding back. Jerk. Though really my point is how far we've come as an industry. Less than 10 years ago, having some semblance of an API--even a loving awful one--was unusual and commanded a huge price premium. You could write custom functionality yourself without paying a consultant high six figures to implement it. Now that capability is basic table stakes, not a high-priced selling point. This is an awesome time to be in tech.
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# ? Dec 29, 2014 07:55 |
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Misogynist posted:I'm laughing at the notion that InfoBlox's API was "actual." You mean that thing with binary blobs called from Perl, where each successive firmware release is incompatible with all other API library versions, and the only way to test that your scripts will continue working is to break your cluster and try a new version pair? I've heard it got better and added a stable REST-style API recently, but gently caress that thing a few years ago. I thought there was an IPAM role? http://technet.microsoft.com/en-au/library/dn268500.aspx disclaimer: i am not a windows admin.
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# ? Dec 29, 2014 08:48 |
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Zero VGS posted:Counterpoint, switches can easily have redundancy too, and your switch/router configs had drat well better be in your existing backups. As a CCIE I would blow my brains out before I tried managing DHCP leases for servers, PXE, phones, desktops and wireless clients on a switch or router. Set up DHCP relay and leave that poo poo to server admins and make sure helpdesk monkeys can get read-only access through MMC or some web based management. Nevermind the whole "dynamic DNS updates" aspect of it. Windows 2012 makes it pretty easy and if you're the network guy it's nice to delegate poo poo like DHCP management to others. quote:I've also done a decade of Windows 2003 dhcp servers and holy hell why would you trust your network's connectivity to anything running Windows? We trust windows to provide authentication services for several thousand users every day which is pretty important for accessing network resources. I don't mean to dogpile here but Window is pretty reliable these days and even in 2003 if you're seeing frequent blue screens you should determine the root cause.
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# ? Dec 29, 2014 09:51 |
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Anyone looking at a windows PC with a problem and just goes "heh, windows" shouldn't be giving anyone windows advice.
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# ? Dec 29, 2014 12:52 |
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More like Windblows, am I right, guys? We need a version of smugdog with like a big ol' neckbeard.
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# ? Dec 29, 2014 13:09 |
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# ? Dec 29, 2014 13:47 |
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"If nothing else, Linux users are smart, and their greatest challenge is to find smart ways to prove it to you" -Powershell In A Month of Lunches
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# ? Dec 29, 2014 14:20 |
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Roargasm posted:"If nothing else, Linux users are smart, and their greatest challenge is to find smart ways to prove it to you" That book teaches so much more than just PowerShell
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# ? Dec 29, 2014 14:41 |
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dogstile posted:Anyone looking at a windows PC with a problem and just goes "heh, windows" shouldn't be giving anyone windows advice. This. My computing life started off at 13 years old with a Performa 600CD Mac, and that begat about a decade of winblows, windoze, etc type of disdain for anything other than the chosen platform. Around the age of reason, I finally had built my first pc (Althon XP 1700+) running XP but continued to be a Mac evangelist through college. It should be pointed out that was just finishing college when the Intel transition started, and Apple was not the consumer favorite it is now. I came to love Windows with 7, and I even enjoy 8.1 a lot as long as it has a Start Menu replacement. The point of this story is that 'WINDOZE LOL' is perpetrated pubescent and pre-pubescent trolls, or are minimally the uneducated. I willing admit to being a raging Apple rear end in a top hat for a long time, but I see value on in all 3 platforms now, and can use any one of them today both on the desktop and the data center. I am primarily a Windows Engineer and love things like AD/DNS/DHCP and wouldn't imagine separating them out for a business of any legit size because 'zomg bluescreens!'
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# ? Dec 29, 2014 15:08 |
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Wow, DHCP Chat... Yea, that kind of proves my assumption that Windows Server is the dominant DHCP Provider but it's interesting to hear about the other players. Hell, you can even setup IBMi to be DHCP.
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# ? Dec 29, 2014 15:16 |
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# ? Jun 1, 2024 06:24 |
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I really don't care which enterprise operating system an organization uses as long as it meets the organization's mission and is properly implemented and supported. As my current client demonstrates, you can run an almost fully *nix environment and have it be about as useful as a steaming pile of poo poo if your sysadmins don't know what they're doing and management never bothers to implement nor enforce a framework for documentation or change control. I think I can also safely say that I keep my prejudices and preferences for consumer products out of my professional life. So, much in the same way that I realize that it's impractical to use a $16,000 stackable layer 3 switch on my home network, I also recognize that my preference regarding iThings versus kickin' rad gaming rigs running Windows is pretty much useless when applied to an enterprise network.
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# ? Dec 29, 2014 15:19 |