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The thing is that there is a major difference between "react violently to a person's name, fake illness to avoid meeting with them" and "fully regain mental capabilities, exposit about newcomers, pilot a MS next episode". The former is something someone with a steadily recovering mind would do. It is a combination of intelligence and instinct (if she had actually suddenly snapped back into consciousness she could have just told them she didn't want to go), and even when the characters point it out it's punctuated with her staring at a house because it's pretty. The latter is just "I'm better now, yay". It's obvious why they did it; they're going to her hometown so Raraiya needs to be conscious enough to exposit about it. And even if the resolution wasn't handled perfectly (she literally starts 14 perfectly fine, you're kidding me if you don't think that's sudden), it was set up well enough that you knew it was going to happen eventually. They just didn't have enough time to actually write out a transition phase so it's a straight jump from recovering to healthy. And that's okay, because Raraiya is a B plot at most and they've got like 10 episodes left. EDIT: Though it would have pretty funny if Raraiya regained herself at like episode 20 and turned out to be a super important character that could have stopped the entire conflict had she been conscious. BlitzBlast fucked around with this message at 05:52 on Dec 29, 2014 |
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Dec 29, 2014 05:44
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BlitzBlast posted:The thing is that there is a major difference between "react violently to a person's name, fake illness to avoid meeting with them" and "fully regain mental capabilities, exposit about newcomers, pilot a MS next episode". Again, this is a fairly generic plot device. "Person has amnesia, suddenly recovers." Raraiya is not suddenly a different character, she's recovered from how she was acting. She has her memories back (which presumably includes her MS piloting memories since she is an established MS pilot) but she isn't suddenly a different character. She still talks to her goldfish, she still dances around like a goof (see next episode preview) and so-on. I mean yes, it is sudden. It is sudden in the way most fictional amnesia is sudden. ImpAtom fucked around with this message at 05:56 on Dec 29, 2014 |
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Dec 29, 2014 05:52
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I'm not saying she's a different character. I'm saying that she jumped from steadily recovering from brain damage to perfectly fine in between episodes (and like, 2 hours in-universe) because they didn't have time to write an almost recovered phase. And that that's understandable because this is a two cour show and they have cut corners like this before.
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Dec 29, 2014 05:58
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cheesetriangles posted:Since I have been out of the loop on this show since October how likely is it now that it is just leading up to Turn A? It's not. As much as some people seem to want the G-Self's antenna to slide halfway down its face and for the Turn X to show up and Moonlight Butterfly everything to dust in the last episode, it won't happen.
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Dec 29, 2014 06:00
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BlitzBlast posted:I'm not saying she's a different character. You keep insisting that it's because they didn't have time when they literally had multiple characters talking about how she was recovering and specifically had a giant shock moment, followed by her lying and pretending to still be not recovered. I'm not sure why you're insisting on it being the writers being so inept they didn't have time to write the plot instead of it being an extremely average by-the-books fictional amnesia recovery.
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Dec 29, 2014 06:01
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ImpAtom posted:You keep insisting that it's because they didn't have time when they literally had multiple characters talking about how she was recovering and specifically had a giant shock moment, followed by her lying and pretending to still be not recovered. I think it would have been better if the cast reacted when she really dropped the act at the assembly though, instead of much later for her very mundane observations.
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Dec 29, 2014 06:04
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I don't understand why you don't get what I'm saying. Multiple characters talked about how she was recovering. The fact that she was going to recover was clearly foreshadowed. I acknowledge this, I have never said otherwise. But the fact is that her recovery was sudden (you admit it yourself!), and the reason why it was sudden is because they're going to the moon next episode and the writers apparently want Raraiya to start playing a bigger role. In other words, they don't have time to throw in a couple scenes of her at like 75% consciousness so BAM she's better now. Raraiya is undoubtedly a goofy girl normally, but even as late as episode 13 she dropped her fever act to go stare at a pretty building. Unless she turns out to be really into architecture, that's not faking sickness that's her still being messed up. EDIT: Also like the first five or six episodes were a stream of "well that happened". The show's early pacing baffled a lot of people, and it's probably going to be the main thing people mention when we talk about this show in the future. The writers have cut corners like this before to save time, so I'm not sure why you think I'm suddenly criticizing them. It's an established part of this show, like how everyone is super chill. BlitzBlast fucked around with this message at 06:12 on Dec 29, 2014 |
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Dec 29, 2014 06:07
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I don't even get why her recovery was drawn out over so many episodes personally. She doesn't seem like someone who has so much important information that she can markedly affect the plot now that she's recovered while she's still on the Megafuana. She'll no doubt prove very useful once they reach Towasanga in that she knows the place, but she doesn't seem like she'd have been able to tell them something that would have cut out any of the last several episodes if she'd recovered around episode 6 for instance. And she'd have been much more entertaining in her normal persona by the looks of things since she keeps all the fun goofiness but ditches the weird elements.
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Dec 29, 2014 06:13
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tsob posted:I don't even get why her recovery was drawn out over so many episodes personally. She doesn't seem like someone who has so much important information that she can markedly affect the plot now that she's recovered while she's still on the Megafuana. She'll no doubt prove very useful once they reach Towasanga in that she knows the place, but she doesn't seem like she'd have been able to tell them something that would have cut out any of the last several episodes if she'd recovered around episode 6 for instance. And she'd have been much more entertaining in her normal persona by the looks of things since she keeps all the fun goofiness but ditches the weird elements. Since episode 15 has actually screened but won't air till next week, I won't specify details, but she does actually know a lot about the situation on the moon, like a lot of a lot. The entire mystery of what is going on up there would have been kneecapped right away, because she could just tell everybody.
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Dec 29, 2014 06:15
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BlitzBlast posted:I don't understand why you don't get what I'm saying. The recovery was sudden in a way that was foreshadowed. She was getting better, a major event happened, she got better. I don't get where this "75% consciousness" thing comes from or why you expect it when other shows that do amnesia plotlines don't do that. She didn't suddenly drop her act to go and stare at a pretty building. They were looking for a house to stay in. It's literally the house they're in the next episode. That is why Noredo said "Raraiya says she likes that house!"
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Dec 29, 2014 06:16
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Okay you know what, let's just agree to disagree here because I get the feeling we both feel like we're arguing with a wall.
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Dec 29, 2014 06:18
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BlitzBlast posted:Okay you know what, let's just agree to disagree here because I get the feeling we both feel like we're arguing with a wall. I actually like when people bring up issues in the show, because even if I'm real bad at articulating my points good posters like ImpAtom and Eiba are really good at elaborating on the shows strengths and nuances because of those discussions. I think it's a flawed show also, but there's a lot to like, and even as a flawed show I really do think it's more interesting than a lot of the gundam thats come before.
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Dec 29, 2014 06:23
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BlitzBlast posted:I don't understand why you don't get what I'm saying. My big problem with Raraiya, as I mentioned earlier in the thread is that I'm not sure why she even exists as a character. I mean I guess its to appeal to some subsection of the viewership who enjoy having a 'cute' brain damaged moeblob running around the ship, but Raraiya has done gently caress all to actually affect the plot in the fourteen episodes in which she has appeared. Off the top of my head the only significant thing that she has 'done' through the story thus far is get put into the cockpit by Klim Nick so that Bellri would take slightly longer to kick Mask's rear end since he has to fly out to the G-self first. If they really needed someone from the Moon-race for the following episodes they could have replaced the surrendering 00 Gundam reject from this episode with Raraiya and probably not missed a beat or any significant plot points, which I think tells you just about everything you need to know about the Raraiya is a character. quote:I think it would have been better if the cast reacted when she really dropped the act at the assembly though, instead of much later for her very mundane observations. Frankly I think it would be better if they asked her some questions about who she is, or why she was flying the G-Self to earth or about eight million other things. Though apparently they do in episode 15? Yay! quote:You keep insisting that it's because they didn't have time when they literally had multiple characters talking about how she was recovering and specifically had a giant shock moment, followed by her lying and pretending to still be not recovered. You know what'd be better, if they'd actually shown Raraiya recovering in a meaningful way and not had her go from frantically clawing at tape around the G-self, or taking a wrench to its backback to being perfectly and totally aware of her surroundings within the space of two episodes. It seems jarring because having someone say "May Raraiya sure is getting better" while she is still acting like a brain damaged lunatic is poor writing.
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Dec 29, 2014 06:25
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Counterpoint: Rairaya is the best, along with Steer.
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Dec 29, 2014 06:26
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Caros posted:My big problem with Raraiya, as I mentioned earlier in the thread is that I'm not sure why she even exists as a character. Well we're about to find out. v  vRaraiya was brain damaged so she couldn't spill the beans on the plot early, so until now she naturally acted like a brain damaged person. What she does now that she's recovered has yet to be seen, but the fact that she's actually going to do something puts her above the standard moeblob character. Also she's the reason Bellri is even in the G-Self, so.
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Dec 29, 2014 06:27
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Sharkopath posted:I think it would have been better if the cast reacted when she really dropped the act at the assembly though, instead of much later for her very mundane observations. Definitely. It seemed like a page of the script got put in out of order or something. And I'll care about Raraiya when she gets a new robot. So next episode, I guess.
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Dec 29, 2014 06:27
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Next episode Raraiya is going to hang out with Steer and they are going to have a lot of fun together, and it will be good.
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Dec 29, 2014 06:27
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Sharkopath posted:Since episode 15 has actually screened but won't air till next week, I won't specify details, but she does actually know a lot about the situation on the moon, like a lot of a lot. Assuming that's true and that the information she provides would have meant the Megafauna wanted to skip Sankt Porto to go straight to Towasanga it should be easy enough for the show to write in some reason that they need to go to Sankt Porto regardless. Needing to drop off Bellri's mother for some kind of strategic meeting with the Space Pope or what have you for instance. And if the information is such that it'd heavily distort the talks taking place the way you're indicating it is, they could also have her recover her mental faculties enough to act normal but not recover vital memories until she see's either the Towasangan's themselves or her hometown. It just doesn't seem that necessary to have her running around being stupid for a dozen episodes to me, and while it's not a major strike against the show or anything, it it something that could have been better done in my opinion.
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Dec 29, 2014 06:27
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BlitzBlast posted:Well we're about to find out. v Oh don't misunderstand, I know why she was brain damaged, I just don't see what benefit there was in having her there so early if she is going to do nothing for 2/3rds of the show. I'm talking less from a specifics about the show point of view and more of a "Why the gently caress did you write a pointless character in for thirteen episodes instead of simply introducing her later on." She is only the reason Bellri is in the G-Self because she was it's original pilot, in a better script the G-Self would just have been something that fell into the atmosphere after a nameless and now dead pilot ejected. Hell, I'd be happy with Raraiya if she was at least dropping cryptic crazy person hints about the plot... or doing anything other than taking up screentime in a show that really needs all the time it can get. Caros fucked around with this message at 06:33 on Dec 29, 2014 |
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Dec 29, 2014 06:29
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tsob posted:Assuming that's true and that the information she provides would have meant the Megafauna wanted to skip Sankt Porto to go straight to Towasanga it should be easy enough for the show to write in some reason that they need to go to Sankt Porto regardless. Needing to drop off Bellri's mother for some kind of strategic meeting with the Space Pope or what have you for instance. And if the information is such that it'd heavily distort the talks taking place the way you're indicating it is, they could also have her recover her mental faculties enough to act normal but not recover vital memories until she see's either the Towasangan's themselves or her hometown. It just doesn't seem that necessary to have her running around being stupid for a dozen episodes to me, and while it's not a major strike against the show or anything, it it something that could have been better done in my opinion. Raraiya is basically treated like the show's third protagonist. She is the third person who can pilot the G-Self, the third person announced when the show was debuted, and given a lot of focus in the marketing. I presume they wanted to have her there and develop relationships with the protagonists from the very beginning instead of introducing her partway through the show. The fact that she is also a Threat From Space means that she becomes something people seek to capture which drives the plot. As for why she acts that way: That is probably just Tomino being Tomino. See also: Purus. Edit: Also I'm not arguing that it is good that she acts that way, but Tomino's gonna Tomino. Caros posted:She is only the reason Bellri is in the G-Self because she was it's original pilot, in a better script the G-Self would just have been something that fell into the atmosphere after a nameless and now dead pilot ejected. I'm not sure how that would have been a better script as having a Rayhunton Code and being able to pilot the G-Self is pretty obviously a major plot point. ImpAtom fucked around with this message at 06:35 on Dec 29, 2014 |
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Dec 29, 2014 06:32
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Sharkopath posted:Next episode Raraiya is going to hang out with Steer and they are going to have a lot of fun together, and it will be good. Raraiya is my friend and she will have a fun time hanging out with Steer, next Thursday.
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Dec 29, 2014 06:34
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Caros posted:Oh don't misunderstand, I know why she was brain damaged, I just don't see what benefit there was in having her there so early if she is going to do nothing for 2/3rds of the show. I'm talking less from a specifics about the show point of view and more of a "Why the gently caress did you write a pointless character in for thirteen episodes instead of simply introducing her later on." I prefer brain-damaged Raraiya to some annoying kids, so she's definitely a net positive. Sharkopath posted:Next episode Raraiya is going to hang out with Steer and they are going to have a lot of fun together, and it will be good. Sindai fucked around with this message at 06:38 on Dec 29, 2014 |
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Dec 29, 2014 06:36
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I think it's good Rariaya is energetic and friendly instead of being some kuudere killing machine thing.
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Dec 29, 2014 06:37
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Really questioning the usefulness of a specific character in Gundam is probably going to lead to endless counterpoints, because really, the franchise is FULL of people who are named that you wonder why they're still there or even exist.
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Dec 29, 2014 06:37
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Sindai posted:
The actual synopses are out and about if you wanna look for them, but having seen them I will confirm that waiting for the next episode is going to be torture, so it's best not to.
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Dec 29, 2014 06:38
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Ｍｏｅ is good, and way better than ultra competent characters that have the combined personality of soggy breadcrumbs.
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Dec 29, 2014 06:42
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Sharkopath posted:Ｍｏｅ is good, and way better than ultra competent characters that have the combined personality of soggy breadcrumbs. Moe is usually pretty poo poo in a show like G-Reco, Raraiya included and presenting a false dilemma with only two possible choices doesn't make it any less so because there are far more ways to write characters than the two you presented. Fortunately it looks like she'll be far more entertaining in future now that she has her normal personality back, so she should be good for the back half of the show even if she was just kind of pointless for the front half.
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Dec 29, 2014 06:45
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quote:I'm not sure how that would have been a better script as having a Rayhunton Code and being able to pilot the G-Self is pretty obviously a major plot point. It was off the top of my head. My point was there are ways to introduce Raraiya that don't require us to sit through thirteen episodes of the wacky antics of chuchumi and his brain damaged pal. quote:I think it's good Rariaya is energetic and friendly instead of being some kuudere killing machine thing. quote:Ｍｏｅ is good, and way better than ultra competent characters that have the combined personality of soggy breadcrumbs. Because those are our only options, characters with no personality or retarded moeblobs.
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Dec 29, 2014 06:45
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Raraiya is cute, and cool. I just don't see what's wrong with Moe.
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Dec 29, 2014 06:48
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Yosuke posted:Really questioning the usefulness of a specific character in Gundam is probably going to lead to endless counterpoints, because really, the franchise is FULL of people who are named that you wonder why they're still there or even exist. Plus sometimes they'll take a lot of time for any payoff to happen. Saji, Katz, etc are good examples of people wondering what was their point for most of 00/Zeta, to name a few. Sharkopath posted:Ｍｏｅ is good, and way better than ultra competent characters that have the combined personality of soggy breadcrumbs. 
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Dec 29, 2014 06:50
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Sharkopath posted:Raraiya is cute, and cool. There's nothing inherently wrong with it, it's just that the execution of it Tomino went with in G-Reco was both rather out of place and kind of annoying to boot. Especially when you find out that her normal persona keeps all of the goofiness but ditches the random stupidity like her attacking the G-Self for no reason or constantly shouting gibberish. She could have been both rather moe and still fun while piloting and the plot being unaffected if she'd just not recovered her memories for the past dozen or so episodes. She'll be cuter AND cooler in the following episodes than she ever was in the first 13 going by the preview, because a normal person doing those things deliberately to tease, annoy or even just amuse themselves is more endearing than a brain damaged person doing them for nebulous reasons. Intention and intelligence adds to it rather than detracting.
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Dec 29, 2014 06:57
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tsob posted:There's nothing inherently wrong with it, it's just that the execution of it Tomino went with in G-Reco was both rather out of place and kind of annoying to boot. Especially when you find out that her normal persona keeps all of the goofiness but ditches the random stupidity like her attacking the G-Self for no reason or constantly shouting gibberish. She could have been both rather moe and still fun while piloting and the plot being unaffected if she'd just not recovered her memories for the past dozen or so episodes. She'll be cuter AND cooler in the following episodes than she ever was in the first 13 going by the preview, because a normal person doing those things deliberately to tease, annoy or even just amuse themselves is more endearing than a brain damaged person doing them for nebulous reasons. Intention and intelligence adds to it rather than detracting. She's still Moe though, and Caros would rather have her dead. Like her personality with and without her memories is mostly the same, the only difference is that with her memories she has full knowledge of the different factions and the situation on the moon, and also she remembers all her combat training. She's still a goofball that loves her pet goldfish.
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Dec 29, 2014 07:04
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Sharkopath posted:She's still Moe though, and Caros would rather have her dead. You find brain damage moe? Okay then. I would say some of her actions are fun/funny, but most of them are just kind of pitiable and weird. And no, he doesn't want her dead - he wants her introduced later in the series, or having more impact on the episodes if she's around all the time, or just ditching the brain damage somehow (there's several possible ways). He said another pilot could have been killed piloting it in the opening episodes before she's introduced later, not that she should have died in the opening episodes.
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Dec 29, 2014 07:08
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tsob posted:You find brain damage moe? Okay then. I would say some of her actions are fun/funny, but most of them are just kind of pitiable and weird. And no, he doesn't want her dead - he wants her introduced later in the series, or having more impact on the episodes if she's around all the time, or just ditching the brain damage somehow (there's several possible ways). He said another pilot could have been killed piloting it in the opening episodes before she's introduced later, not that she should have died in the opening episodes. I liked it when raraiya was playing with Nobell.
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Dec 29, 2014 07:16
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If raraiya isn't around, she might as well be dead.
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Dec 29, 2014 07:21
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The way people, and the institutions or organizations they represent, treat Raraiya is a decent shortcut to characterizing them. The Capital Army treats her as an uncooperative prisoner of war until they finally institutionalize her somewhere. Klim Nick takes advantage of her reduced cognitive function to get another test pilot. Noredo Nug tries to keep her calm, safe, and free of dental issues. Fourteen episodes is a long time though. It'll be easier to tell if that was worth it in twelve weeks.
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Dec 29, 2014 07:24
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You know, I love this show, and dislike her, so I've just been kind of ignoring her, but I may as well share my thoughts on this.Sharkopath posted:Raraiya is cute, and cool. And it's supposed to be cute. I love the gently caress out of this show wholeheartedly, but Raraiya is decidedly the worst thing about it. There's a truly revolting disconnect between how horrible her situation is and how cute it's supposed to be. If you can twist this into some sort of criticism of moe or something, like some people did at the start, that could be interesting. But having come through the other side now to her recovery... there was nothing to justify it. She was comedy relief. This wasn't even like... someone struggling with adversity or whatever, finding joy even in a bad situation. It was 100% played for laughs/cuteness. It's possible I'm badly misinterpreting her character, or the author's intent, or I'm missing something more fundamental, so I'd love it if someone could explain how I'm wrong or unreasonable to feel this way, but I can't read it as anything other than really, really lovely. So I've just been ignoring her as best I can. Which is really well. Hasn't brought down the show for me, but... god drat is her story terrible so far. And honestly, I have really high hopes now that the worst of it is over. I can't wait to see what she's like now that she's a human being. Maarak posted:The way people, and the institutions or organizations they represent, treat Raraiya is a decent shortcut to characterizing them. The Capital Army treats her as an uncooperative prisoner of war until they finally institutionalize her somewhere. Klim Nick takes advantage of her reduced cognitive function to get another test pilot. Noredo Nug tries to keep her calm, safe, and free of dental issues. Fourteen episodes is a long time though.
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Dec 29, 2014 08:37
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Eiba posted:...I can't wait to see what she's like now that she's a human being. People with brain damage aren't real people? 
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Dec 29, 2014 08:41
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Gaius Marius posted:People with brain damage aren't real people?
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Dec 29, 2014 08:54
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Eiba posted:You know, I love this show, and dislike her, so I've just been kind of ignoring her, but I may as well share my thoughts on this. Every time Raraiya does anything moe the response from all the characters in the show has pretty much always been "what is she doing", "get her away from that", or Noredo physically restraining her and chasing her off somewhere else. I'm struggling to think of any times where the show has actually gone "you're meant to find this cute", either through directing or character responses. Tomino made a moe character, and his moe character literally has brain damage and constantly gets in peoples ways, and most of the time people are too busy doing other poo poo to find her cute. She's always seemed like a pretty obvious criticism of moe to me. I also find the fact that he did all this really funny, so she's serving a valuable comic relief role alongside every other character in the entire cast.
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Dec 29, 2014 09:46
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