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Hey guys I just heard about the Nuclear Throne gift copy for New Year (apparently, if you own a copy of Nuclear Throne by the end of 2014, you get a free giftable copy to share) and was wondering if anyone is willing to pass it on to me. I'm spent in terms of cash after Christmas and this might be a good chance to pick up the game.
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Dec 29, 2014 16:25
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Jordan7hm posted:Auto explore allows me to feel like I'm traversing a huge world (because I am), but not get bored if I need to backtrack through that world or if there are stretches without interesting encounters (which is totally fine if you have AE, absolutely poo poo if you don't). "Auto explore" for backtracking makes more sense, I will grant. It's when you're using it to traverse unexplored territory that I start wondering what's going on with your game design. Is it really that valuable to have a huge world if there's very little in it?
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Dec 29, 2014 16:28
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Autoexplore is a godsend for any roguelike, if you manually explore all levels and always notice enemies when they are at the corner of your sight range -and- never tap the direction key too many times you have the patience and awareness of some kind of transcendent zen master
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Dec 29, 2014 16:45
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TooMuchAbstraction posted:"Auto explore" for backtracking makes more sense, I will grant. It's when you're using it to traverse unexplored territory that I start wondering what's going on with your game design. Is it really that valuable to have a huge world if there's very little in it? Yes, it is. Puzzle-like roguelikes are fun but small worlds lose that sense of adventure and majesty you get from having a huge space to explore. For the same reason, I think there's value to windshield monsters. I think what Dungeonmans does with the dungeons that just pop out treasure if you're overleveled is interesting, but honestly I prefer something like Crawl where I can just take a couple minutes with AE and blow through the dungeon myself. My reward isn't just loot, it's the feeling of blowing away monsters that were stomping me two hours ago. DCSS has a ton going on in it, but there are still lulls in the combat, especially if you're better at the game. If you're new, auto-exploring too much is a great way to die (because it's great, but not perfect), but if you know what you're doing it's a great way to get to the more interesting content quicker.
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Dec 29, 2014 17:02
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While I like and use autoexploration, automating a lot of stuff in roguelikes (and games in general) is pretty interesting. Theoretically speaking if you automated every single "meaningless" thing that you'd do manually anyway from exploring non-threatening content and defeating all enemies that can't realistically kill you to auto-equipping all upgrades and looting everything worthwhile and so forth, most games would end up as a series of threat rooms and boss fights. Yet at the same time if you looked at all these aspects individually, you could very well make an argument that each of them is just a pointless chore that wastes your time while you're trying to reach the "meaningful" content. Of course roguelikes are games that are played from the start many times over so eventually seeing the same stuff repeatedly starts wearing thin, but I think interactivity is a somewhat undervalued aspect in games these days and the less meaningful stuff does also serve a certain purpose.
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Dec 29, 2014 18:01
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Kanfy posted:Theoretically speaking if you automated every single "meaningless" thing that you'd do manually anyway from exploring non-threatening content and defeating all enemies that can't realistically kill you to auto-equipping all upgrades and looting everything worthwhile and so forth, most games would end up as a series of threat rooms and boss fights. That's exactly what FTL and similar games are - a series of interesting encounters (for some value of interesting). I'm ambivalent to autoexplore, I generally prefer it for two reasons - RSI and the shittiness of dying in a roguelike because you moved one square too many. The latter related also to my hatred of 1hkos and UI unfriendliness. Something I'd really like to see implemented in more roguelikes is a threat indicator that shows you exactly what an enemy is capable of, down to showing you 'hey, if this dude hits you next turn, he'll deal X damage with Y ability'. The process of getting to that point naturally tends to either result in a) losing lots of characters the first time you encounter anything new or b) playing like a total coward at all times under the assumption that everything can one shot you. There are a few that have varying degrees of that info (Brogue does precise hit info iirc, at least from the player's end). Basically my attitude is making informed decisions and dying because you made poor decisions (short or long term) is more interesting than dying because of incomplete information, where you made what seemed like reasonable decisions but weren't due to a hole in your knowledge. Clearly I'm not much for the delight of discovery  (I view most combat-centric roguelikes as 'arena' toys in the same way that a good Doom map is enjoyable to play regardless of your intimate knowledge of the game, the play is the thing, so to speak).A lot of that is also related to problems I have with vertical rpg progression, something that causes all sorts of lovely gameplay in many, many games.
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Dec 29, 2014 18:17
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Dungeon of the Endless is beating my rear end on easy. How do you win this thing lol. When you pick up the crystal and the bad guys all come attack, do they KEEP COMING and never stop, or do you just have to fend off that final wave and then cake walk to the exit?
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Dec 29, 2014 18:25
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Jastiger posted:Dungeon of the Endless is beating my rear end on easy. How do you win this thing lol.
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Dec 29, 2014 18:39
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Have all he rooms lit all the time, and failing that, have all enemies funnel in a single path, and failing that, unless you're near end game give up because you're hosed.
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Dec 29, 2014 19:08
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Make chokepoints with a bunch of turrets and one or two dudes ready to blast things dead. There's a couple of heroes that will give you resources if they get the kills, particularly dust which will make further ventures into more rooms less of a strain! EDIT: Strategy for crystal running Step 1. Light the path to the exit Step 2. Light branches on that path to keep enemies from spawning and slowing down the runner Step 3a. If the above is not possible, set up your heroes to fight a running battle which requires a lot of pausing and setup Step 3b. If you're feeling pressed, build turrets along the way Sage Grimm fucked around with this message at 19:21 on Dec 29, 2014 |
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Dec 29, 2014 19:14
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I find that I'm OK and things are working out alright, then I get the crystal and a BAJILLION Monsters come and kill my best heroes. I become sad. Its super fun, but SUPER challenging. Nothing like getting a new hero, then they immediately die in the ensueing wave at the next door. The game doesn't explain the "working" a module thing very well. Can they only be upgraded once? How does that work?
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Dec 29, 2014 19:20
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Operating a module means the hero's wit gets added to what it produces for the 3 basic generators and gives additional effects for the other ones. They can be upgraded to I believe four, the same as the smaller modules but generally you want to concentrate your research into better turrets/support.
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Dec 29, 2014 19:23
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Sage Grimm posted:Operating a module means the hero's wit gets added to what it produces for the 3 basic generators and gives additional effects for the other ones. They can be upgraded to I believe four, the same as the smaller modules but generally you want to concentrate your research into better turrets/support. Whoa I didn't know that. SO keep the robot dude at the industry one then so I can build more poo poo. Did not know that. They have to hav "Operate" though, right? Also, wrt the minor turrets, how do I see what the bonus to those is?
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Dec 29, 2014 19:33
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The minor modules don't get bonuses when they are Operated (heroes with that skill), it's only the major ones that do. So generally, barring some heroes' skills, what you see when you are building a support/turret is what you get.
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Dec 29, 2014 21:32
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oh hey we're due another Sil release any week now (this one is supposed to have tiles)
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Dec 29, 2014 21:51
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Tonfa posted:Autoexplore is a godsend for any roguelike, if you manually explore all levels and always notice enemies when they are at the corner of your sight range -and- never tap the direction key too many times you have the patience and awareness of some kind of transcendent zen master This. Autoexplore is not a fix for wide-open levels with nothing in them, it's a fix for running through an enemy's line of fire by accident. And for backtracking. It's fantastic for backtracking. I don't insist on autoexplore, at least in roguelikes with relatively small levels like CoQ, but I do miss it when it's not there. That said, it's never going to be quite as smart as human play; in ToME, for example, I always play the Ritch Tunnels without autoexplore because that way I can always move in a way that minimizes my exposure and maximizes my ability to get the gently caress out, because that dungeon is nasty. victrix posted:Something I'd really like to see implemented in more roguelikes is a threat indicator that shows you exactly what an enemy is capable of, down to showing you 'hey, if this dude hits you next turn, he'll deal X damage with Y ability'. The process of getting to that point naturally tends to either result in a) losing lots of characters the first time you encounter anything new or b) playing like a total coward at all times under the assumption that everything can one shot you. ToME4 does this; mousing over an enemy shows you its statblock, current HP/MP/etc, and any active sustains, and right-clicking on it brings up a window with all the same info that's on your character sheet, including what abilities it has and what they do. (It won't show you "what it's going to hit you with next turn", though -- just what it could hit you with.) I believe Desktop Dungeons takes a similar total-information approach.
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Dec 29, 2014 21:55
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ToxicFrog posted:ToME4 does this; mousing over an enemy shows you its statblock, current HP/MP/etc, and any active sustains, and right-clicking on it brings up a window with all the same info that's on your character sheet, including what abilities it has and what they do. (It won't show you "what it's going to hit you with next turn", though -- just what it could hit you with.) I believe Desktop Dungeons takes a similar total-information approach. I admit to not having played ToME4, but I get the impression that its main issue is that most monsters are chaff and it's not readily apparent which ones aren't unless you take the time to carefully read each monster's stat sheet -- when, again, 95+% of them are chaff. What's really needed is some kind of  this monster could gently caress you up alert or something.The problem being that it's hard for the game to evaluate what "gently caress you up" means. The easiest to evaluate is "this monster has at least one move that could kill you on its next move", but that doesn't include things like "it could paralyze you and then spend the following three turns summoning so many enemies that there's nowhere to escape to".
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Dec 29, 2014 21:59
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victrix posted:Something I'd really like to see implemented in more roguelikes is a threat indicator that shows you exactly what an enemy is capable of, down to showing you 'hey, if this dude hits you next turn, he'll deal X damage with Y ability'. The process of getting to that point naturally tends to either result in a) losing lots of characters the first time you encounter anything new or b) playing like a total coward at all times under the assumption that everything can one shot you. Brogue does this and is otherwise wonderful
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Dec 29, 2014 22:01
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One Way Heroics marks special monsters with a little mark above their heads, and a title, like 'Infamous Dragon Knight', and they can often mess you up pretty bad.
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Dec 29, 2014 22:03
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TooMuchAbstraction posted:I admit to not having played ToME4, but I get the impression that its main issue is that most monsters are chaff and it's not readily apparent which ones aren't unless you take the time to carefully read each monster's stat sheet -- when, again, 95+% of them are chaff. What's really needed is some kind of In general, that warning is provided by the coloured border provided to boss and miniboss enemies, or by terrain cues -- vaults always contain OOD monsters and often traps no matter what colour their border is, a 10x10 room where every tile contains an enemy is a threat just from sheer weight of numbers, absolutely everything in the Dark Crypt can probably kill you in two turns, etc. Also, the chaff monsters don't really have a lot of variation within types. Read one skeleton archer stat sheet and you've read them all. It's the bosses you have to watch out for. EAT THE EGGS RICOLA posted:Brogue does this and is otherwise wonderful That's pretty great, but probably wouldn't work in ToME4 because boss enemies can easily have upwards of two dozen abilities they can use that vary widely in effect, and even chaff enemies usually have at least some special abilities, just not ones that put you at serious risk of death except in combination with other hazards.
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Dec 29, 2014 22:17
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TooMuchAbstraction posted:I admit to not having played ToME4, but I get the impression that its main issue is that most monsters are chaff and it's not readily apparent which ones aren't unless you take the time to carefully read each monster's stat sheet -- when, again, 95+% of them are chaff. What's really needed is some kind of
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Dec 29, 2014 22:33
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tome4 throws everything and the kitchen sink at the player which is kinda nice in a way but it also leaves it a jumbled, boring mess because barely any of it floats to the top when it comes to being interesting. people only ever talk about a small handful of the classes present because the rest are entirely mind-numbing.
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Dec 29, 2014 23:15
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LotsBread posted:Hey guys 
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Dec 29, 2014 23:51
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Playing Sproggiwood here, and I got to a level where my inputs just... stop. I can't select any of my powers, and I can't move (I've tried numpad, wasd, clicking the compass and controller for all of these), but I can do stuff in the menu without any issue. I tried resetting the controls to default, just in case something changed on me, but that didn't do anything. Do I need to abandon the run and try again from the top? I'm kind of hoping not because I'd been doing rather well this dive.  I'd also be in the hunt for a Nuclear Throne code if someone has a spare.
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Dec 30, 2014 00:41
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how do I open the present box I start with in sil : S
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Dec 30, 2014 00:44
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code:It was done on 1.1.1 (the android version hasn't updated yet), and with a Christmas present, but it wasn't any less of a victory to me. Pladdicus posted:how do I open the present box I start with in sil : S Drop it on the ground (d), then (,) to open it. Enjoy!
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Dec 30, 2014 00:57
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ZeeToo posted:Playing Sproggiwood here, and I got to a level where my inputs just... stop. I can't select any of my powers, and I can't move (I've tried numpad, wasd, clicking the compass and controller for all of these), but I can do stuff in the menu without any issue. I tried resetting the controls to default, just in case something changed on me, but that didn't do anything. Do I need to abandon the run and try again from the top? I'm kind of hoping not because I'd been doing rather well this dive. Sounds like an exception got thrown and took down the game loop, or an AI controller is stuck in a loop. Could you tell me what dungeon/level that happened send me the player log to unormal@gmail.com? http://docs.unity3d.com/Manual/LogFiles.html It's likely not recoverable, unfortunately.
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Dec 30, 2014 01:12
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I seem to recall hearing that opening the Christmas presents curses you (much like taking extra Silmarils does), so it's not exactly easy mode to play at this time of year.
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Dec 30, 2014 01:14
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Unormal posted:Sounds like an exception got thrown and took down the game loop, or an AI controller is stuck in a loop. Could you tell me what dungeon/level that happened send me the player log to unormal@gmail.com? Disappointing, but not a big deal when it's the only problem I've had in a fun game. I can't find a log; there's no Unity folder in AppData (Windows 8.1), not even hidden. The menu stuff worked just fine so I closed to desktop from there; could that be why there's no log? It happened on Hakkipunki, floor... three, I think? Possibly two. I forgot to grab a screenshot, but it was right as I entered. If my Cloghead was at position 5 on a numpad, walls were at 1/4/7/8/9, a cryptic shrine was at 2, Tutuvus was at 3, and 6 was empty space.
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Dec 30, 2014 01:28
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TooMuchAbstraction posted:I seem to recall hearing that opening the Christmas presents curses you (much like taking extra Silmarils does), so it's not exactly easy mode to play at this time of year. It's only if you open your present before Christmas!
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Dec 30, 2014 02:12
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I'm finally getting the hang of Sil. Got to 850 before getting mauled by a vampire and some cats and other stuff due to bad positioning. I'll probably get to 1000 within the week - could someone spoil me on what exactly I need for the throne room (ie what's the gear needed/check to see if you can pry the silmaril?) Also, gently caress those green horrors that spray acid all over you. Easily the biggest assholes in the game (and a good reminder that crawl got it totally right in removing item destruction/degrading). I know you can run from them, but getting pincered by one in the hallway is the worst.
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Dec 30, 2014 04:12
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[CoQ Steam 12-29-2014] *Upgraded to Unity 4.6 *Made world generation faster *Made tile image paths more robust *Added anonymous gameplay stats collection *Added an option to opt-out of stats collection
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Dec 30, 2014 04:41
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Jastiger posted:Dungeon of the Endless is beating my rear end on easy. How do you win this thing lol. Take advantage of choke points as much as possible. Place any hero that isn't opening doors/operating modules/carrying the crystal in dark rooms, they'll prevent monsters from spawning there. Unlock the shop module if possible, and build/operate one as soon as you find a merchant. I'm a big fan of teslas/KIPs combined with defence reduction modules. Don't forget to reset ability cooldowns with science, it can and will save your rear end.
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Dec 30, 2014 05:01
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ZeeToo posted:It happened on Hakkipunki, floor... three, I think? Possibly two. I forgot to grab a screenshot, but it was right as I entered. If my Cloghead was at position 5 on a numpad, walls were at 1/4/7/8/9, a cryptic shrine was at 2, Tutuvus was at 3, and 6 was empty space. Went through with two different classes, no further problems. Guess it was just a random crazy thing.
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Dec 30, 2014 05:46
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Happylisk posted:I'm finally getting the hang of Sil. Got to 850 before getting mauled by a vampire and some cats and other stuff due to bad positioning. I'll probably get to 1000 within the week - could someone spoil me on what exactly I need for the throne room (ie what's the gear needed/check to see if you can pry the silmaril?) Make sure to find a staff of revelations to map out the level, and a staff of foes to look at everyone's position/stats. That way, you can find the secret passage, which is a much better spot to fight than an open throne room with multiple uniques, Morgoth, and plenty of trolls/vampires. The secret passage leads all the way to right behind Morgoth, so if you have a stealthy enough character, you can get over there before everything wakes up. Also, bring lots of healing/rage herbs/constitution and strength potions if you plan on going in loud (I used up 4 rage herbs, 6 healing potions, and multiple stat potions just surviving the non-uniques that swarmed me). For cutting the Sil off his crown (after you knock it off), you either want a weapon that can cut through armor (like Angrist) or the Song of Sharpness. Then, you either need to make it back to the entrance or the side exit and ascend back to 50' with Morgoth chasing (and don't forget to equip the Sil as a light source, it has a distance of 7). Finally, you need to escape out of the Gates of Angband at 0', which is loaded with enemies to clog you up if you waste time, so either run fast or be ready for a long and dangerous fight. I have no idea how much tougher it gets if you steal more Sils (because I was a chicken and wanted a win), but I do know I wasn't able to even put a dent in Morgoth when I gave a shot at it on the upstairs, so don't try fighting him.
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Dec 30, 2014 05:46
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Floodkiller posted:I have no idea how much tougher it gets if you steal more Sils (because I was a chicken and wanted a win), but I do know I wasn't able to even put a dent in Morgoth when I gave a shot at it on the upstairs, so don't try fighting him. As I understand it, grabbing one extra Sil means that every time you roll for something, you roll twice and take the worse of the two. Grabbing three Sils means that you roll three times. Thus the results are a bit hard to quantify but it makes succeeding at things markedly more difficult.
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Dec 30, 2014 05:49
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TooMuchAbstraction posted:As I understand it, grabbing one extra Sil means that every time you roll for something, you roll twice and take the worse of the two. Grabbing three Sils means that you roll three times. Thus the results are a bit hard to quantify but it makes succeeding at things markedly more difficult. Ouch. While reading more about the ending on the Sil forums, you can apparently lug out the crown itself for a 3-Sil victory without that curse. Granted, you need 6 strength to be allowed to lift it...
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Dec 30, 2014 06:27
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How viable is stealthing on the way up to avoid Morgoth chasing you?
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Dec 30, 2014 07:05
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TooMuchAbstraction posted:As I understand it, grabbing one extra Sil means that every time you roll for something, you roll twice and take the worse of the two. Grabbing three Sils means that you roll three times. Thus the results are a bit hard to quantify but it makes succeeding at things markedly more difficult.
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Dec 30, 2014 08:15
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madjackmcmad posted:There's a word for this, it's not squared though is it? Like if you have a 45% chance to succeed at something, you have a (45% of 45%) chance with 2 sils, and (45% of 45% of 45%) with three! These are not very big numbers. It's squared/cubed as long as you express the chances in percentage/decimal terms. 45% cubed = (.45 * .45 * .45) = .091 = ~9%
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Dec 30, 2014 08:20
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