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anne frank fanfic posted:Lol he got three of his guys killed and wrote an article about it blaming a gun I'm picturing a corkboard loaded with articles about dead Americans and post-it notes with "JAM????" scrawled on them
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Dec 30, 2014 02:18
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Stultus Maximus posted:Oh joy, the ancient and retarded AK vs M16 argument is in the Atlantic now. The argument was about how the procurement process is poo poo, and one of the way it is poo poo is blowing poo poo-tons of money on the fancy toys while penny pinching on anything related to grunts despite those being the things where you can get a lot of improvement for comparatively minuscule investment. But yea, I guess on the internet all anyone will get out of it is AK v M16. 
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Dec 30, 2014 02:27
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Courthouse posted:But yea, I guess on the internet all anyone will get out of it is AK v M16. You want to talk about hosed up procurement, we ain't ever gonna get a new rifle while retired general George Casey is on the governing board of Colt Defence. Unless it's made by Colt Defence. You know, that same retired general who is on the board of FedBid, who just got canned by VA procurement. http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2014/nov/20/va-cuts-ties-to-reverse-auction-contractor-fedbid-/?page=all The very same retired general who obviously used his clout (probably with Shinseki) to get FedBid as sole supplier of drugs to the VA. FedBid, the same company who tried to actively gently caress over people in the VA who were trying to fix the problem. http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2014/oct/8/vas-loyalty-to-reverse-auction-firm-fedbid-raises-/?page=all Goes to show that people in the army who rank higher than you will undoubtedly try to gently caress you over until the day you day. Even after you get out.
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Dec 30, 2014 02:54
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The way the acquisitions process works isn't really at the feet of the military. They gently caress up their end of it plenty, but they don't write the rules.
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Dec 30, 2014 03:10
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Courthouse posted:The second companion one about guns is good as well. Although nothing new to anyone here, it's one of those things you want journalists to actually point out to the public. Eh, this one kind of reads like popular science towards the end there. Like a sales presentation.
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Dec 30, 2014 03:10
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GENDERWEIRD GREEDO posted:I'm picturing a corkboard loaded with articles about dead Americans and post-it notes with "JAM????" scrawled on them Meanwhile the NVA commander just told his guys 'Hey going up this hill don't drag your rifles through the dirt like loving morons'
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Dec 30, 2014 03:37
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krispykremessuck posted:The way the acquisitions process works isn't really at the feet of the military. They gently caress up their end of it plenty, but they don't write the rules. Sitting through the acquisition portion of the COR course was simply jaw-dropping. The amount of money that we waste so Representative Jack Dickfuck from Wyoming can create 5 jobs in his district is absolutely insane.
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Dec 30, 2014 04:14
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psydude posted:Sitting through the acquisition portion of the COR course was simply jaw-dropping. The amount of money that we waste so Representative Jack Dickfuck from Wyoming can create 5 jobs in his district is absolutely insane. We only get away with that poo poo because we're SO loving RICH that we can waste scads of money on programs and campaigns that actively hurt us and still not make a real dent in the bottom line.
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Dec 30, 2014 06:41
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Zeroisanumber posted:We only get away with that poo poo because we're SO loving RICH that we can waste scads of money on programs and campaigns that actively hurt us and still not make a real dent in the bottom line. How many more bullets do you think we could put into haji heads if we stopped wasting so much money on Sen. Joe Dipshit's pet project for his district? Billions of dollars will buy a fuckload of bullets. E: this should literally be a metric that acquisition programs are measured by, "How many bullets does this allow us to put into browns?"
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Dec 30, 2014 06:48
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Without knowing exactly what the DoD pays for bulk ammo, we could just work with $0.50 / rd of 5.56mm and... Well, just double whatever the dollar amount you're talking about and that's how much copper-jacketed freedom you could have bought instead.
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Dec 30, 2014 08:11
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That number gets a loooot less impressive when you conoder the Army and USMC's reported number of rounds expended vs reported number of dead insurgents.
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Dec 30, 2014 08:20
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Dead Reckoning posted:That number gets a loooot less impressive when you conoder the Army and USMC's reported number of rounds expended vs reported number of dead insurgents. Then they'll just have to learn to aim better.
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Dec 30, 2014 08:27
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Isn't the rounds expended for every killed enemy combatant something like 100,000:1? It's a ridiculous number.
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Dec 30, 2014 08:34
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Kazinsal posted:Then they'll just have to learn to aim better. We got to stop taking prisoners we're losing out on a ton of free headshots. That why Isis has such good stats despite emptying the clip in the air and yelling Allahu Ackbar on youtube.
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Dec 30, 2014 08:35
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P sure rounds expended per kill includes training rounds expended, so the metric is backwards. The higher rounds per kill the better trained the military. The problem is how low the ratio is. Def not enough shooting practice. Mop time v rifle time is insanely unbalanced in the janitorial direction. and that is a place money can help a lot in. Best Friends fucked around with this message at 09:48 on Dec 30, 2014 |
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Dec 30, 2014 09:46
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e: ^^^ thisholocaust bloopers posted:Isn't the rounds expended for every killed enemy combatant something like 100,000:1? It's a ridiculous number. I don't know about you all, but when I was in, we never had enough ammo, period. Garrison and deployed both, we did not have enough. In garrison we'd drug deal for garbage bags full of ammo, and deployed, every can of .50 I could scrounge up was like a brick of gold. If there's one thing every combat arms soldier needs more than anything it's fuckin' range time. You would think that the powers that be would allocate plenty of ammunition to trigger pullers so that they could get good at their job and maybe get killed a little less often. Cut a handful of F-35s from the budget, and maybe then your troops can finally get some worthwhile training in. Naked Bear fucked around with this message at 09:52 on Dec 30, 2014 |
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Dec 30, 2014 09:50
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Spicy Guacamole posted:e: ^^^ this Unless you're somehow able to tie ammunition procurement and logistics into someone's congressional district, I think you know the answer.
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Dec 30, 2014 09:56
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Equine Don posted:Unless you're somehow able to tie ammunition procurement and logistics into someone's congressional district, I think you know the answer.
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Dec 30, 2014 10:04
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We should be using our excellent, unparalleled training centers (NTC, JRTC, etc) to conduct simulated missions on the cheap. More than the bullshit run these ten companies through the lanes hurry up though. Something like a month or two of going through different scenarios, from Crimea to Iraq. There should also be more humanitarian and rapport building missions for the conventional troops. I think the conventional military is really behind the curve of utilizing both the human terrain and the physical terrain that special operations has long since passed. And there's the lack of training and schooling too which is ridiculous since clearly the DOD can afford a few hundred new stealth aircraft but oh we just don't have the money to send you TDY to that school which is really important to your job...
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Dec 30, 2014 11:15
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Using a bayonet doesn't cost anything, just use more of those. A cousin of mine did 4 tours with the Royal Marines and said that they would 'stick' people on house clearances all the time. They did also have to scrounge ammunition of US forces as well, so maybe that's why you were always short?
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Dec 30, 2014 11:36
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Bernard McFacknutah posted:Using a bayonet doesn't cost anything, just use more of those. A cousin of mine did 4 tours with the Royal Marines and said that they would 'stick' people on house clearances all the time. They did also have to scrounge ammunition of US forces as well, so maybe that's why you were always short? I know I gave some British soldiers 9 mm and AA batteries since we had an abundance of both.
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Dec 30, 2014 11:43
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I tried to get him on to these forums a while back but he never bothered opening an account. He had some strong opinions on the National Guard units he met in Iraq which would have given Shim a run for his money.
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Dec 30, 2014 12:41
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Bernard McFacknutah posted:He had some strong opinions on the National Guard units he met in Iraq Still angry about Lexington and Concord eh
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Dec 30, 2014 14:28
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We could probably use a jingoistic British version of Shim to balance it out. That and maybe like a veteran of the Iran-Iraq war to complement 50FA.
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Dec 30, 2014 14:34
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psydude posted:That and maybe like a veteran of the Iran-Iraq war They're dead, alright? They're all dead. Can I go now?
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Dec 30, 2014 15:40
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Smiling Jack posted:Still angry about Lexington and Concord eh 
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Dec 30, 2014 16:00
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Equine Don posted:We should be using our excellent, unparalleled training centers (NTC, JRTC, etc) to conduct simulated missions on the cheap. More than the bullshit run these ten companies through the lanes hurry up though. Something like a month or two of going through different scenarios, from Crimea to Iraq. There should also be more humanitarian and rapport building missions for the conventional troops. I think the conventional military is really behind the curve of utilizing both the human terrain and the physical terrain that special operations has long since passed. And there's the lack of training and schooling too which is ridiculous since clearly the DOD can afford a few hundred new stealth aircraft but oh we just don't have the money to send you TDY to that school which is really important to your job... When a friend of mine was training up for his deployment to Iraq (during which he saluted, guarded doors, and drove trucks the entire time) he said that he was put through a week of training in a simulated Iraqi village with actual Iraqis flown in to play different parts. His group was run through all sorts of sideways situations, from Insurgent translators, to suspected bombs and ambushes while getting a crash course in Iraqi culture. Doesn't the military still do that?
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Dec 30, 2014 16:22
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Zeroisanumber posted:When a friend of mine was training up for his deployment to Iraq (during which he saluted, guarded doors, and drove trucks the entire time) he said that he was put through a week of training in a simulated Iraqi village with actual Iraqis flown in to play different parts. His group was run through all sorts of sideways situations, from Insurgent translators, to suspected bombs and ambushes while getting a crash course in Iraqi culture. Doesn't the military still do that? We had 2 big training events like that on both of my work-ups to Iraq/Afghanistan. The big one we did goes on for a week or so. The environment is supposed to react to the way your unit performs. Someone in the idiot thread (I think?) told a tale of how they (make-believe) lit up a crowd of role-players and the entire make-believe AO turned against them for the rest of training. I felt the training was adequate for what we were expected to do in country: dump money into the local economy to keep people from blowing us up and continue to work side by side with local police and military so we can say "WE TRAINED THEM!" once we pull out and the place turns to poo poo. The issue isn't the training. It's the mission. Stay the gently caress out of the Middle East.
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Dec 30, 2014 16:37
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Victor Vermis posted:Stay the gently caress out of the Middle East. Victor Vermis posted:Stay the gently caress out of the Middle East. Victor Vermis posted:Stay the gently caress out of the Middle East. Victor Vermis posted:Stay the gently caress out of the Middle East. Victor Vermis posted:Stay the gently caress out of the Middle East.
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Dec 30, 2014 16:47
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Victor Vermis posted:We had 2 big training events like that on both of my work-ups to Iraq/Afghanistan. The big one we did goes on for a week or so. The environment is supposed to react to the way your unit performs. Someone in the idiot thread (I think?) told a tale of how they (make-believe) lit up a crowd of role-players and the entire make-believe AO turned against them for the rest of training. That might have been me. One of the platoons killed some guy on the morning mission, and they ran the funeral when my platoon rolled up on the village for the afternoon mission. I got into a shoving match with one of the Iraqi expats they had as actors, feel kind of bad about it because he was older but the guy was getting too close and was super pissed.
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Dec 30, 2014 16:57
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EVA BRAUN BLOWJOBS posted:That might have been me. One of the platoons killed some guy on the morning mission, and they ran the funeral when my platoon rolled up on the village for the afternoon mission. I got into a shoving match with one of the Iraqi expats they had as actors, feel kind of bad about it because he was older but the guy was getting too close and was super pissed. In my first training event an old guy walked through our patrol and I went all STAY BACK STAY THE gently caress BACK and everyone laughed at me  I guess he was roleplaying a retarded person.
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Dec 30, 2014 17:07
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Victor Vermis posted:
Fixt for accuracy.
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Dec 30, 2014 17:20
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I thank my lucky stars that all the times I fired warning shots at civs I never had a bad ricochet. Because seriously what the gently caress. I've seen/heard some absolutely insane things happen with those. The correct way to handle a crowd is to pull out your 9mm anyway. Iraqis will flip you the bird if you've got a full squad of rifles and a 50 pointed at them, but pull out a 9mm and poo poo gets real.
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Dec 30, 2014 17:34
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Victor Vermis posted:In my first training event an old guy walked through our patrol and I went all STAY BACK STAY THE gently caress BACK and everyone laughed at me This was an O school so you got to see a platoon a freshly minted LTs doing these missions with nobody to laugh. The instructors were going crazy with IED sims so we got into dumb situations like this- bunch of people carrying a coffin to the graveyard but are walking to us? MUST BE A BOMB! It all went downhill from there.
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Dec 30, 2014 17:59
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Vasudus posted:I thank my lucky stars that all the times I fired warning shots at civs I never had a bad ricochet. Because seriously what the gently caress. I've seen/heard some absolutely insane things happen with those. Why?
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Dec 30, 2014 18:01
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Genocide Tendency posted:Fixt for accuracy. You'll get better results if they aren't accurate.
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Dec 30, 2014 18:14
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Status thing + people get executed with pistols. I never saw any evidence for it but it got said enough that it must have some truth to it.
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Dec 30, 2014 18:22
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LongDarkNight posted:You'll get better results if they aren't accurate. They hit the ground every time
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Dec 30, 2014 18:23
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The handgun was/is a symbol of the regime's boss-man in Middle Eastern countries run by tinpot dictators (i.e., Saddam's Iraq). So when a guy with a handgun showed up, people took it as a sign that poo poo was about to get real (i.e., quit doing whatever it is you're doing and go the gently caress home because if you don't a platoon of the regime's soldiers is going to waste your entire village.) e: Also like VV said, executions were (and still are!) frequently performed with pistols.
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Dec 30, 2014 18:24
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edit: beaten, there ya go ^ it smells a little like an urban legend to me, but you know, truthy
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Dec 30, 2014 18:26
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