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I was convinced Adnan was guilty prior to Jay's new interview, and am only more convinced now. I'm interested to see if SK releases an epilogue in light of this, and maybe talks about those "rumors" a bit more...
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Dec 30, 2014 03:55
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lmao @ the people who cannot fathom why a black kid in 1999 Baltimore would be hesitant to cooperate with police
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Dec 30, 2014 05:06
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Is there anyone else who feels in retrospect that Adnan telling Jay "You're pathetic" at trial is the most damning piece of evidence against him, considering Jay's narrative?
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Dec 30, 2014 06:49
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I got the impression from Serial that Jay was boastful, and maybe that colored my opinion a bit, but why are we taking his word that he was selling a lot of pot back then? That just sounds like something a boastful teenager-now-man would say to make himself seem cool. How do we know he was selling it out of his grandmothers? If he cared about putting her at risk so much, why do it at all? Especially if, as he says in that interview, they had already come by a couple times? The only thing this interview confirms for me is that neither Jay or Adnan are being 100% honest. There's more here that they refuse to be more up front about. The thing is that sticks out to me the most is why, when they have both repeatedly (most recently Jay in this interview) minimized their relationship with one another back then, that they'd be hanging out, Adnan lending out his car, his phone (I would NEVER part with my cell phone nowadays, never mind back then when a cell phone cost a lot more/were more "rare" to a drug dealing acquaintance.) and why Jay would be the first person Adnan turns to, etc. They were either way closer than they're making it seem, or they were both involved with a 3rd party, or, I dunno, something they are just not opening up about.
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Dec 30, 2014 07:21
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Dark Weasel posted:Is there anyone else who feels in retrospect that Adnan telling Jay "You're pathetic" at trial is the most damning piece of evidence against him, considering Jay's narrative? It's one of those things that can be interpreted both ways, but I totally agree with you. The phrase sounds like something you would say to someone who you view as a "snitch" rather than someone who has deliberately set up an elaborate plot to frame you for something you didn't commit. Not sure that we ever heard Adnan explain what he was thinking when he said those words. He seems to have chilled out a lot over the years. Would he still use the words pathetic to describe Jay?
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Dec 30, 2014 07:32
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In the new interview Jay says they left the car on some street next to houses. However, he told the police and showed them it was in a park and ride parking lot, not next to houses.jay posted:...I’ve gotta put her car somewhere.’ So I follow him around for a few minutes, and he just picks a place at random behind some row houses, leaves her car, gets into his car, takes me home.
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Dec 30, 2014 07:44
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Dear Prudence posted:In the new interview Jay says they left the car on some street next to houses. However, he told the police and showed them it was in a park and ride parking lot, not next to houses. He seems credible to me and this interview makes me think he's telling the truth. For reasons.
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Dec 30, 2014 07:56
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rear end Catchcum posted:The thing is that sticks out to me the most is why, when they have both repeatedly (most recently Jay in this interview) minimized their relationship with one another back then, that they'd be hanging out, Adnan lending out his car, his phone (I would NEVER part with my cell phone nowadays, never mind back then when a cell phone cost a lot more/were more "rare" to a drug dealing acquaintance.) and why Jay would be the first person Adnan turns to, etc. They were either way closer than they're making it seem, or they were both involved with a 3rd party, or, I dunno, something they are just not opening up about. I think they were actually involved with a third party: Stephanie. Adnan was worried that Jay would forget to get her something for Christmas. Adnan would have taken Jay to the mall, but he had to go to track practice. So he gave Jay both his phone and his car, intending to call him later so Jay could return them. Or as Jay puts it: quote:And I said, ‘Hey, I need to run to the mall ’cause I need to get a gift for Stephanie.’ He said then, ‘No, I gotta go do something. I’m going to be late for practice, so just drop me off. Take my car, take my cellphone. I’ll call you from someone else’s phone when I’m done.’ Also, I thought his whole tangent about Adnan being a magnet student was a bit odd. quote:He was a little pompous, a little arrogant, but he seemed really driven as far as his academics, but all those magnet students were. He was magnet.
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Dec 30, 2014 07:56
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And More posted:I think they were actually involved with a third party: Stephanie. Adnan was worried that Jay would forget to get her something for Christmas. Adnan would have taken Jay to the mall, but he had to go to track practice. So he gave Jay both his phone and his car, intending to call him later so Jay could return them. I know what he said. But would you just let a guy you smoked with a couple times take your car and your cellphone? And if you're Jay is that really who you turn to to go gf gift shopping? It just doesn't match up either way if their relationship was as non existent as they both (repeatedly) make it seem. It would almost make more sense for one of them to lie and say they were pretty good friends or something but instead they say they barely knew each other except for the couple times they smoked pot yet there they are lending cellphones, cars and trying to go get a last minute gift for one of their girlfriends. You know, like we all do with random people who both think each other are sketchy and have only smoked pot with a handful of times. I know when I need a gift for my gf the first guy I turn to to go shopping with me is the guy who I've smoked pot with 5 times.
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Dec 30, 2014 08:03
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rear end Catchcum posted:I know what he said. But would you just let a guy you smoked with a couple times take your car and your cellphone? And if you're Jay is that really who you turn to to go gf gift shopping? It just doesn't match up either way if their relationship was as non existent as they both (repeatedly) make it seem. It would almost make more sense for one of them to lie and say they were pretty good friends or something but instead they say they barely knew each other except for the couple times they smoked pot yet there they are lending cellphones, cars and trying to go get a last minute gift for one of their girlfriends. You know, like we all do with random people who both think each other are sketchy and have only smoked pot with a handful of times. What if the guy you've smoked pot with 5 times is also really good friends with your girlfriend?
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Dec 30, 2014 08:05
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TheJoker138 posted:What if the guy you've smoked pot with 5 times is also really good friends with your girlfriend? I dunno. I really don't think so. That's kinda an intimate/personal thing I doubt that'd be the person I'd want to bring for that. I think there's either more to Adnan and Jay's relationship or more to their story in the murder.
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Dec 30, 2014 08:08
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rear end Catchcum posted:I dunno. I really don't think so. That's kinda an intimate/personal thing I doubt that'd be the person I'd want to bring for that. You have to look at the relation at that time from two sides. I don't think that it was a very close relation from Jay's PoV, Adnan was just another pot smoker he sold weed to and drove around with once or twice. But for Adnan the whole relation transformed in the aftermath of him being traumatized by Hae breaking up with him and having a new boyfriend, because Jay was one of the few people he could talk to without feeling judged. You see, he could not talk to the other magnet kids, as they all judged him to be "the guy that lost his girlfriend to another guy". He could not talk to his parents or friends at the mosque about his problems because they judged him for being a bad muslim. That left him with Jay. Once he started to open up to him about Hae, he felt like the relation was a lot closer and thats why he gave him his car and cellphone. As for the "dont be a snitch" line of thought, if you listen closely to the podcast you will hear a lot of people they interview talking about the fact that they would never call the cops, because that's just something you dont do.
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Dec 30, 2014 09:22
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rear end Catchcum posted:I know what he said. But would you just let a guy you smoked with a couple times take your car and your cellphone? And if you're Jay is that really who you turn to to go gf gift shopping? It just doesn't match up either way if their relationship was as non existent as they both (repeatedly) make it seem. It would almost make more sense for one of them to lie and say they were pretty good friends or something but instead they say they barely knew each other except for the couple times they smoked pot yet there they are lending cellphones, cars and trying to go get a last minute gift for one of their girlfriends. You know, like we all do with random people who both think each other are sketchy and have only smoked pot with a handful of times. I think Jay is misremembering how it went down. My theory is: Adnan was worried that Jay would forget to get a present for Stephanie, and so he reminded him. Lending Jay the car was Adnan's way of making sure that he would take care of it as soon as possible. He didn't have to trust Jay for this to make sense as long as he trusted Stephanie. Or in other words: He didn't lend his car to his best buddy Jay. He lent it to his friend Stephanie's boyfried because she asked him for a favour.
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Dec 30, 2014 10:08
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Dear Prudence posted:In the new interview Jay says they left the car on some street next to houses. However, he told the police and showed them it was in a park and ride parking lot, not next to houses. I haven't re-listened to the podcast at all, but I got the impression from the show that he told them it was parked on a hill next to some row houses, so I don't think that in itself is a big discrepancy.
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Dec 30, 2014 14:48
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It's hard to say for certain if he's guilty, but there is nowhere near enough evidence to have justified a conviction here. Even at trial there were a lot of inconsistencies on Jay's part, which was the cornerstone of the state's case. Based on what they presented, he should have been acquitted. Unfortunately there really isn't enough physical evidence in this case to say what really happened. It's almost entirely down to testimony.
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Dec 30, 2014 18:17
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Some people mistake reasonable doubt for shadow of a doubt. Just throwing out a possible alternative, that doesn't really make any sense doesn't get you to a point where you can't convict. Nor does saying that the prosecution theory isn't 100% certain. This isn't CSI, there doesn't have to be DNA and video footage of a crime to get a conviction. There is plenty of evidence to convict, once the prosecution puts their theory of the crime together the defense has to provide a credible alternative, they never did, because he was guilty. From a practical perspective, the state had sufficient circumstantial evidence to prove Adnan's guilt beyond a reasonable doubt and Adnan wasn't able to offer meaningful evidence detracting from the state's case. I can't fathom how a reasonable person could analyze evidence in any other way than beginning with the question of whether the state's evidence, considered in isolation, proves guilt beyond a reasonable doubt. If Hae's family sued Adnan in civil court they would win as well.
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Dec 30, 2014 20:50
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Apples and oranges - that's just a preponderance, and probably almost everyone would agree there's a preponderance here. E: vvvvvv Agreed. Red Dad Redemption fucked around with this message at 21:20 on Dec 30, 2014 |
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Dec 30, 2014 20:55
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Civil and criminal cases carry completely different standards for a reason.
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Dec 30, 2014 21:04
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Court of Strong Internet Opinions
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Dec 30, 2014 22:27
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Part two of Jay's interview is up: https://firstlook.org/theintercept/2014/12/30/exclusive-jay-part-2/
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Dec 30, 2014 23:33
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By his own admission, Jay helped move and then bury Hae's body. He should not be so incredulous if people think he was involved in her killing.
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Dec 30, 2014 23:49
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Jay posted:Do you ever read Reddit? Have you read the subReddit about this case and about me? I was in Jay's camp till this. Lol Jay 
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Dec 30, 2014 23:51
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Watermelon City posted:By his own admission, Jay helped move and then bury Hae's body. He should not be so incredulous if people think he was involved in her killing.
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Dec 31, 2014 01:40
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Drunk Tomato posted:I was in Jay's camp till this. Lol Jay
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Dec 31, 2014 01:43
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Sounds like Adnan confessed to his imam and he turned him in. Open shut case.
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Dec 31, 2014 01:46
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How does Jay know who testified at the grand jury?
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Dec 31, 2014 01:49
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As the state's primary source of evidence, Jay would have testified before the Grand Jury to help secure an indictment. Each witness should have appeared separately and "secretly," but practically, Jay would have been working closely with prosecutors to prepare his testimony/the case by the time a Grand Jury was convened - it's a little odd, but not inconceivable that he would find out about other witnesses/evidence while doing so.
A Tasteful Nude fucked around with this message at 02:38 on Dec 31, 2014 |
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Dec 31, 2014 02:34
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While I still don't think the prosecution had a good enough case to convict Adnan, the interview with Jay has changed my opinion to being that Adnan definitely did it. Jay's interview fills in the blanks about what his motivations were and why his story changed so frequently.I wish he had just spoken with Koenig in the first place really. Also, I would bet good money that he is fearing for his life not so much because of people he knew in Baltimore, but because some lunatic on Reddit has been posting his personal information everywhere and sending him death threads.
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Dec 31, 2014 03:04
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FlamingLiberal posted:He's also the only person in this case who has admitted to being with the dead body and burying it. I have no idea what world he's in if he thinks everyone believes he's just some cool dude and not an accessory to murder, at minimum. As I recall, he was, in fact, convicted as an accessory, but he got a suspended sentence and probation, or something similar, to let him avoid jail time. CoffeeBooze posted:Also, I would bet good money that he is fearing for his life not so much because of people he knew in Baltimore, but because some lunatic on Reddit has been posting his personal information everywhere and sending him death threads. The last, at least, seems depressingly likely. docbeard fucked around with this message at 03:16 on Dec 31, 2014 |
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Dec 31, 2014 03:13
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He was somehow able to plead that accessory charge down to criminal mischief or something equally minor, and ended up with just probation.
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Dec 31, 2014 04:53
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The second interview makes Jay seem like a guy just trying to move on. Its hard for me, as a person on the internet that reads a lot of stuff and consumes different types of media, to empathize with his position. I get not wanting to talk to the cops and even being spooked by SK...but at this point he seems completely oblivious to how it looks refusing to talk to one reporter and then speaking to another. He could have said all of this to SK, but instead, refused. I don't feel like SK really vilified him, but now it looks like it to him because he has no voice in the story....and thats his choice and his fault. Either way, these interviews make Jay look better than he did before simply because he's willing to talk about stuff. If Adnan did in fact confess to an imam....well, that is it.
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Dec 31, 2014 05:13
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FlamingLiberal posted:He was somehow able to plead that accessory charge down to criminal mischief or something equally minor, and ended up with just probation. This sounds completely in line with a justice system trying to choke down and clear as many cases as it can.
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Dec 31, 2014 05:25
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Jastiger posted:The second interview makes Jay seem like a guy just trying to move on. Its hard for me, as a person on the internet that reads a lot of stuff and consumes different types of media, to empathize with his position. I get not wanting to talk to the cops and even being spooked by SK...but at this point he seems completely oblivious to how it looks refusing to talk to one reporter and then speaking to another. He could have said all of this to SK, but instead, refused. I don't feel like SK really vilified him, but now it looks like it to him because he has no voice in the story....and thats his choice and his fault. Yeah. This part of SK email made it clear that she tried to give him room to give his version: I think the simplest pitch I can make to you is: You have a story about what happened to you, and you should be the one to tell it. I mean, yeah, sometimes SK made him look rather suspicious, but I feel she was as fair as she could (while being very pro Adnan over the duration of the podcast) and she gave him a chance to tell his story.
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Dec 31, 2014 06:22
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I can't imagine Jay or even SK would have figured at the time that the story would have blown up like this. It sounds like he thought it was just a radio program airing in another state, and probably figured it would just go away if he didn't talk about it. Now that it's super popular and his life is under the microscope he wanted to defend himself, and didn't want to do it with the reporter who he felt had an agenda against him. They described him as having "animal rage" based off a 20 minute conversation, I'm not surprised he didn't trust them with an interview.
Hobo Clown fucked around with this message at 07:15 on Dec 31, 2014 |
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Dec 31, 2014 07:11
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who are you people that you just lend boyfriends of friends borrow your car and cellphone. it's weird. If he's so concerned about his nana, why sell weed there in the first place? The imam thing is interesting. If that gets confirmed (is that possible?) than I guess that's it. As it is now, I think there is missing info. I think Adnan and Jay have tried dropping hints by talking about the snitching thing a lot, alluding to the fact that there is someone or others involved that they can't indicate or them (jay and adnan) or their family/friends will be in trouble. Even if it's simply a Adnan paid off or something, it's why there is just a missing piece of the story. "Yeah, I mean, Adnan wouldn't even call me to go bowling. I always resented that. I mean, sure, he'd call me to hide a body and poo poo and hell yeah I'm down but bro deep down I wanted to bowl."
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Dec 31, 2014 08:29
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rear end Catchcum posted:who are you people that you just lend boyfriends of friends borrow your car and cellphone. it's weird.
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Dec 31, 2014 09:02
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Would the imam (or whoever it was) have needed to plead the fifth? I'm not a lawyer, but based on that article it sounds to me like not divulging confessions is covered under the first amendment, not fifth. Unless I guess 'Mr. B' somehow was also an accessory after the fact or something so testifying would have incriminated himself, or wasn't officially clergy so the same rules didn't apply?
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Dec 31, 2014 13:53
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why would you guys believe Jay when he says that imam thing? he uh, has kind of lied before.
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Dec 31, 2014 13:59
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mennoknight posted:why would you guys believe Jay when he says that imam thing? he uh, has kind of lied before.
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Dec 31, 2014 14:35
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Jastiger posted:I get not wanting to talk to the cops and even being spooked by SK...but at this point he seems completely oblivious to how it looks refusing to talk to one reporter and then speaking to another. He could have said all of this to SK, but instead, refused. I don't feel like SK really vilified him, but now it looks like it to him because he has no voice in the story....and thats his choice and his fault. SK didn't even have a business card with her name on it. How incredulous would you feel?
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