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Gilok posted:This can have repercussions all on it's own, depending on who you are and why you're talking to this guy in the first place. If you're a vampire too he might be insulted, or he might think you're a little beta bitch. You know what's pretty beta? Literally being Dominated.
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Dec 31, 2014 02:21
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Attorney at Funk posted:You know what's pretty beta? Literally being Dominated. This is surely one of the niceties of Society, to be aware of that but to never actually say it out loud.
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Dec 31, 2014 02:39
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citybeatnik posted:V20 included rules for avoiding eye contact with someone with Dominate - you had to make a Willpower roll with a difficulty of their Manipulation+Intimidation. Even tearing your eyes out only made it a more difficult roll for the Vampire to use the Discipline. Nah it was the other way round, sunglasses/closing your eyes reduces the Willpower difficulty by 1, blindfolding or tearing out your eyes reduces it by 3. Besides, Willpower at Difficulty = Manipulation+Intimidation is a pretty easy roll. Average human willpower is 3, so unless it's an elder vamp with some massive Intimidate pool most people should get a success and thus be able to avoid being dominated if they are aware of it enough to take measures.
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Dec 31, 2014 05:47
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Ambi posted:Nah it was the other way round, sunglasses/closing your eyes reduces the Willpower difficulty by 1, blindfolding or tearing out your eyes reduces it by 3. Besides, Willpower at Difficulty = Manipulation+Intimidation is a pretty easy roll. Average human willpower is 3, so unless it's an elder vamp with some massive Intimidate pool most people should get a success and thus be able to avoid being dominated if they are aware of it enough to take measures. Huh, so you're right about the difficulty modification going the other way. But you can still Dominate someone without eyes, which is more where the VENTRUE TURBOBONER RULE came in to play.
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Dec 31, 2014 07:20
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The new LARP rules removed the gaze requirement and simply make it necessary that the target be Focused on the Dominate user- i.e. talking to, attacking, looking at.
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Dec 31, 2014 07:28
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Ambi posted:Nah it was the other way round, sunglasses/closing your eyes reduces the Willpower difficulty by 1, blindfolding or tearing out your eyes reduces it by 3. Besides, Willpower at Difficulty = Manipulation+Intimidation is a pretty easy roll. Average human willpower is 3, so unless it's an elder vamp with some massive Intimidate pool most people should get a success and thus be able to avoid being dominated if they are aware of it enough to take measures. For the record, using the oMage Revised dice rules, the probability of succeeding at a Willpower 3 roll to resist looking into the eyes of a Vampire at different pools: Manipulation + Intimidation = 1: 96.74% Manipulation + Intimidation = 2: 96.74% Manipulation + Intimidation = 3: 92.04% Manipulation + Intimidation = 4: 87.15% Manipulation + Intimidation = 5: 81.48% Manipulation + Intimidation = 6: 74.43% Manipulation + Intimidation = 7: 65.40% Manipulation + Intimidation = 8: 53.80% Manipulation + Intimidation = 9: 39.01% Manipulation + Intimidation = 10: 20.44% Thankfully for Vampire players, most people don't know about the existence of vampires and won't avert their gaze - unless you're a Nossie.
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Dec 31, 2014 12:33
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Personally, my method if I were playing a Dominate-heavy vampire would be to snap my fingers in front of the face of the guy who's trying to look away. (The only time it's ever come up for me, though, was a Demon game I'm running. His target never tried to look away, and half the party failed to notice the vampire had Dominated one of their members because he didn't do anything that was all that much weirder than he usually does. The vampire was mostly using it to try and get some leverage in negotiations with them. This worked rather less well than he would have liked, not least because the guy he Dominated is a big dumb weirdo whom he could barely even humiliate to make himself feel better.)
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Dec 31, 2014 12:39
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citybeatnik posted:But you can still Dominate someone without eyes, which is more where the VENTRUE TURBOBONER RULE came in to play. In Requiem at least - I'm not 100% sure about B&S - not having eyes doesn't help. In the writeup for the Bloodline who are permanently blind and have to echolocate, it specifically calls out that Dominate works as normal, no penalty, because you only have to look at where their eyes would be. My issue with ruling that part of a Dominate check succeeding is that you made eye contact is that B&S calls out that if the person using Dominate is wearing mirrorshades, or is doing it via TV, it doesn't work because the victim has to see your eyes, not the other way around. It seems like not looking at the Ventrue should make you dominate-proof, but I'm not comfortable with people just being able to declare they're not looking - if you're not expecting him to surprise attack you, it's a win-win for you. Also, B&S era Elysium specifically being no-violence only is a really interesting change. A freefire zone for Discipline use makes Elysium very risky to show up to if your Resolve + Composure is crap. I'm vaguely ruling it that Dominating or Majestying people into doing anything more than amusing or humiliating stuff at Elysium is probably grounds for "act of violence", since the Sheriff probably doesn't want to establish a precedent that if someone dominates him, it's all gravy. Not in every domain of course, but most.
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Jan 1, 2015 14:09
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I'm looking to eventually run Changeling, so I'm planning to run a few smaller games with the Core rules to get the hang of how the system works. As someone who hasn't touched NWoD as a player or ST before (but has read through both Core rules and Changeling the Lost a bunch), are there any tips for someone looking to run a short game (1-3 sessions) with the Core rules (sans God-Machine rules update due to not having it in hard copy)? Any pitfalls of the system I should keep an eye out for?
Tailfnz fucked around with this message at 18:00 on Jan 4, 2015 |
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Jan 4, 2015 17:56
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My only advice would be, if you have a really good, cool idea for a True Fae, feel free to deploy it, especially in a short game. True Fae are alien, chaotic forces, but so long as they're not the Keepers of any of the present Changelings, they're not necessarily antagonistic, so it doesn't have to turn into a fight (though smart PCs will run the hell away). True Fae also aren't the Changeling equivalent of dragons -- some of them can party-wipe the PCs in 1-2 turns, but that's not a static, always-true thing about them; it's easy to conceive of a True Fae who acts as if they're terrible at combat, as a matter of preference or an affectation. What is likely true about True Fae is the PCs won't be able to kill them -- they'll toy with the PCs for awhile and leave when they get bored, or just slip back into Arcadia when they've had enough of the PCs beating on their physical form. Besides that, the normal nWoD caveats apply -- rules-as-written Fighting Styles are kind of broken and certain ones will turn players into combat death engines; I've never played in a game that didn't straight-up ban them or heavily house-rule them into something else entirely. There's a conversion we have floating around here somewhere that allows you to do character generation using XP instead of dots, which makes more sense. I can't think of any other big ones at the moment, but I'm sure someone else will.
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Jan 4, 2015 20:06
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My players just killed their first vampire. Immediately afterwards they exclaimed "holy poo poo, we killed a vampire" I love my hunters 
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Jan 9, 2015 23:39
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I'd like to hear more as to how that went down.
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Jan 10, 2015 01:04
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DJ Dizzy posted:My players just killed their first vampire. Immediately afterwards they exclaimed "holy poo poo, we killed a vampire" I love my hunters I was once playing a very low powered mage game, when we ran into a few vampires. After some brief discussion about what magic to use to kill one during the day, one of us just decided to open the curtains.
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Jan 10, 2015 01:11
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They had been hearing stories about exsanguinated people in Ronkonkoma and went down to investigate. The pattern they found was that all the vics had visited a classy nightclub the same night they died. They noticed a guy in the club after bribing their way into the security room, that showed up with a blurry face on the cameras. They went to a camerastore and bought a camera that they hid in a bowtie. They identified said person, and the playboy of the group then seduced him, and using their shared interest in guns, the vamp invited him over so they could shoot some antique guns, fully intending to drain him. They then tailed him to where he lived, a pretty big mansion on long island, and after shooting some guns for sport, the playboy and the vamp went inside, and they sprung the trap with the jesuit priest of the group jumping him, failing to stake him. They resorted to plan B, pumping him so full of lead he went into torpor. They staked him, chopped his head off and burned the body, and then they left. It's going to be fun when the police discovers all the fingerprints the playboy left
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Jan 10, 2015 01:30
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Somehow an announcement on the main IC Camarilla mailing list for the current MES Cam/Anarch game turned into an IC discussion of sex and gender. It's not really bad or anything, but every new email that comes in, I cringe before I click on it.
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Jan 10, 2015 02:44
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My group is starting up Tier-1 Hunter, I am playing a Zoologist, we have a unibomber, and two others, we are just starting up in 90s Chicago, I love my ST
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Jan 10, 2015 07:12
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As someone who is not that familiar with american culture, what is a unabomber?
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Jan 10, 2015 10:26
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DJ Dizzy posted:As someone who is not that familiar with american culture, what is a unabomber? The Unabomber was an American anarchist named Ted Kaczynski who bombed technology centers from the late 70s to the mid 90s.
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Jan 10, 2015 11:11
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I've been planning a Reuiem Blood and Smoke game set in 1984 Los Angeless, and as a consequence going back through my old 1E books to re-read a lot of stuff I'd forgotten or didn't quite remember. So can we talk about how loving great the first edition of the New World of Darkness was? Because it really was! Sure, there were some missteps here and there (Requiem had a slow start, the Mage corebook was terrible, BvD, etc.) but overall it was pretty amazing. The blue "Mortal" line was consistently fantastic, Promethena and Changeling and Hunter were all amazing, and the original three got better and better as people gradually left the old games behind and were freer to explore the new games. The new WoD launched ten years ago. And for all that oWoD nostalgia seems to be in these days, I find msyelf looking backv very fondly to early-to-mid nWoD.
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Jan 10, 2015 17:51
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Ah gently caress, I missed the Wraith Kickstarter  Is there anyway I can still purchase the leather bound deluxe edition or am I SOL?
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Jan 10, 2015 20:25
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They made a note specifically on the KS page at some point in the middle of it that they couldn't take pledges after funding closed. You can still try if you think you have some kinda magic power, leverage over Rich Thomas, or whatever else. But I figure you are SOL for the deluxe version. It will be out in POD at some point, though.
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Jan 10, 2015 22:50
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A few KS's have had leftover deluxe editions once all the backers received their copies (I got one of Changing Breeds 20), but that won't happen for at least a year, probably.
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Jan 10, 2015 22:53
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Ah well, that really sucks since Wraith was one of my favorite systems. I'd beg, but I don't think they'd make an exception for some random on the internet. I'd love to have one. Even if there are some left over I imagine they'd be ridiculously expensive. I'll keep an eye out and worst comes to worst I'll just spend the money on a premium PoD.
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Jan 11, 2015 00:22
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Wraith definitely looks like a cool system. I got to take a gander at the old MET book for it, since we had a Wraith NPC show up on Samhain as an antagonist in the Changeling: the Dreaming LARP I was an ST in for a year. Turns out Soulsteel is really scary for Kithain, especially for the poor Sidhe Knight that just stood there with the NPC's Soulsteel blade impaling his chest, looking unimpressed. That was probably one of the most entertaining scenes I ever ran.
Tailfnz fucked around with this message at 00:45 on Jan 11, 2015 |
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Jan 11, 2015 00:33
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Tailfnz posted:Wraith definitely looks like a cool system. I got to take a gander at the old MET book for it, since we had a Wraith NPC show up on Samhain in the Changeling: the Dreaming LARP I was an ST in for a year. Turns out Soulsteel is really scary for Kithain, especially for the poor Sidhe Knight that just stood there with the NPC's Soulsteel blade impaling his chest, looking unimpressed. That was probably one of the most entertaining scenes I ever ran. I used to run Wraith online. I had a small handful of players, but it was worth it. There are a couple of reasons why it never really got popular. The Shadow system required another player to play as the 'dark side' to the PC, always tempting the character and trying to lead it over the edge. While this makes for some really good collaborative Storytelling, it requires investment in other player's background and if you didn't have the right people, it could go horribly wrong. Or have half-assed Shadows, which misses the point of the system. Wraith was also somewhat disconnected to WoD at large and its themes more personal, so it really couldn't be run in a multiple system setting. It is also incredibly depressing thanks to its themes. But its storytelling possibilities and pathos really did make me like it a lot. And then they came out with a black-dog book that allowed you to play as Specters, which was even more depressing (if that were possible). And yeah, a soul-steel blade was always really sought after and could be pretty powerful. If I remember correctly, they were pretty vicious weapons when they could be manifested, which isn't an easy feat.
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Jan 11, 2015 00:52
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The effect of the Soul-steel's scariness was totally lost on the players due to the fact that we impaled the House Fiona Sidhe, who was quite literally incapable of feeling fear (loving Noble house boons), but it did result in one of the funniest exchanges there had been while I was still on staff for that game. The Knight just stood there and crossed his arms, looking unimpressed, and said with a mildly pained voice while pointing out the greatsword in his chest and wincing in pain throughout: "Really? Is this necessary? I mean, come on, I understand that you've got a job to do here, but... can we be adults about this, please?" I do miss being an ST for that game, despite how utterly godawful the systems for Dreaming and old MET are.
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Jan 11, 2015 01:17
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The only person I know who actually played Wraith (Rubix Squid) apparently played it as "This is how hosed up the afterlife and its social structures are, here's some molotovs and ghost AKs, SMASH THE STATE" And honestly? That sounds like a  way to play compared to the disasters that often came out of trying to run it straight.
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Jan 11, 2015 02:43
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So our first hunter game went off with a bang. It's the Chicago Cubs conspiracy theory, I play the quiet, methodical, cold, jerky Michael Short, a Grad student working as a Zoo Sanitation Explorer (aka poo poo shoveler), who learned of this from a raving madman who would not look at it rationally. Even then, what he said intrigued my character so he went to go examine it. Me and my motley crew of jerks, a conspiracy nutjob, a 26 year old bum named Cassidy who claims he was in vietnam, and Becker. We went in and we found out that there was a strange meeting between the Chief of Police, the Mayor and a strange being who came out of a glistening light who had large metal wings. Me, being the scientist that I am, started taking as many pictures as I could, taking soil samples once they were gone (turns out there was an increase in background radiation, and the doctor found out through the sweat samples we got in the Locker Room that they've been given very small doses of valium, or a valium-like drug. Our doctor got visited by a strange man, and police came to look for me at my job while I was at school. This is turning out to be a very interesting campaign.
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Jan 11, 2015 02:53
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Daeren posted:The only person I know who actually played Wraith (Rubix Squid) apparently played it as "This is how hosed up the afterlife and its social structures are, here's some molotovs and ghost AKs, SMASH THE STATE" That's a fun way to run it, never did an Anarchist game before. When I ran it, I took over Shadow duties for my players. Because the ST is already in sort of an adversarial position and I don't have a character involved. Not to mention I am concerned with my PCs stories and them having a good time, so I'm invested in making good Shadows. It also helps the players to cooperate easier as they aren't endlessly pissed at each other for messing up their characters. Of course, this is a lot of work, since you are basically running as many extra NPCs as you have players. But I almost think it is a requirement when running a Wraith game. Whenever other players ran shadows, it typically turned into a mess. People took poo poo very personal and tried to gently caress each other over perpetually and the game lost focus and turned PvP-ish, only with Shadows. Or people were afraid of this happening/disinterested in playing a Shadow and didn't do it well. Or they were just ignored and half the point of the game was lost. I haven't looked much into the new rules, but the system with Shadows definitely could be improved upon. Tailfnz posted:The effect of the Soul-steel's scariness was totally lost on the players due to the fact that we impaled the House Fiona Sidhe, who was quite literally incapable of feeling fear (loving Noble house boons), but it did result in one of the funniest exchanges there had been while I was still on staff for that game. The Knight just stood there and crossed his arms, looking unimpressed, and said with a mildly pained voice while pointing out the greatsword in his chest and wincing in pain throughout: "Really? Is this necessary? I mean, come on, I understand that you've got a job to do here, but... can we be adults about this, please?" Yeah, I tended to keep those weapons away from my players until they were rightfully earned, because they were devastating. Since it was always the first thing I went for in an Wraith game where I was a PC. And that's pretty awesome (gently caress Sidhe though, Trolls forever :P). I have absolutely no experience with MET rules except it relied on some sort of RPS system.
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Jan 11, 2015 03:21
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I backed the Wraith KS because I really want to see what alternate Shadow rules they come up with, in the hopes that they'll be workable, and because it will contain new Orpheus material and Orpheus is my favorite RPG of all time, by a mile.
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Jan 11, 2015 04:01
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Dapper Dan posted:I used to run Wraith online. I had a small handful of players, but it was worth it. There are a couple of reasons why it never really got popular. The Shadow system required another player to play as the 'dark side' to the PC, always tempting the character and trying to lead it over the edge. While this makes for some really good collaborative Storytelling, it requires investment in other player's background and if you didn't have the right people, it could go horribly wrong. Or have half-assed Shadows, which misses the point of the system. Wraith was also somewhat disconnected to WoD at large and its themes more personal, so it really couldn't be run in a multiple system setting. It is also incredibly depressing thanks to its themes. But its storytelling possibilities and pathos really did make me like it a lot. And then they came out with a black-dog book that allowed you to play as Specters, which was even more depressing (if that were possible). As much as I have pointed out the Shadowguiding system as a major barrier for entry into Wraith because of its requirement for committed and mature players to be in the role of the shadow to pull it off successfully; there is a more obvious practical reason that Shadowguiding makes Wraith campaigns nearly impossible: you need every player there every game. Caleb Stokes pointed this out in the post game analysis of the RPPR Better Angels campaign. Better Angels has an identical mechanic in which each player has double duty to play both a character with infernal superpowers, and some other player's internal demon. With a group of five, scheduling became near impossible because everyone was required to be there for the RPPR podcast so the roleplaying could be consistent. Now granted if one or two players can't show up to a given session the GM should pick up the slack and voice those Shadows/Demons but you are naturally going to lose consistency in that scenario. Or a GM could just forget to do something critical as a specific player's Shadow/Demon because he is distracted.
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Jan 11, 2015 05:07
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Dapper Dan posted:Ah gently caress, I missed the Wraith Kickstarter That depends. How much are you willing to spend on ebay?
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Jan 11, 2015 08:41
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Loomer posted:That depends. How much are you willing to spend on ebay? Looking over the other previous deluxe editions, not the $300 - $500 they are asking. I had the same reaction before PDF services that got popular when I was looking for OOP Wraith stuff. People were asking $200+ bucks for Ends of Empire. I wasn't spending it then and I'm sure as hell not spending it now. Yeah, the leather is nice and all, but it just isn't worth the extra several hundred mark-up. I will buy the Print on Demand with the good paper and color, however. Helical Nightmares posted:As much as I have pointed out the Shadowguiding system as a major barrier for entry into Wraith because of its requirement for committed and mature players to be in the role of the shadow to pull it off successfully; there is a more obvious practical reason that Shadowguiding makes Wraith campaigns nearly impossible: you need every player there every game. This is true, I did forget about that but I was lucky since it never seemed to come up in groups where other players were Shadows. Probably because things seemed to fall apart before they could get going. Shadow-guiding and similar mechanics is a very interesting idea in the vein of collaborative storytelling, but it is extremely difficult to implement well. You're right, switching back and forth would have problems since the GM isn't used to it. You either have to do full on initially or have the players do it. You're not going to have the same tone/consistency otherwise because the ST basically has to do it on the fly. It just has a large amount of pitfalls that can be discouraging. Not to mention a huge barrier to the system, especially for players new to RPGs. Vampire: The Masquerade was my first experience with PnP RPGs and I could pick up and play it. I would not have been able to do that as easily with Wraith.
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Jan 11, 2015 12:13
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Probably the only way to avoid those problems would be to have the player create a guide to playing her character's Shadow so that anyone can do it, but that introduces its own problems.
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Jan 11, 2015 15:33
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Effectronica posted:Probably the only way to avoid those problems would be to have the player create a guide to playing her character's Shadow so that anyone can do it, but that introduces its own problems. The shadow character sheet is essentially that.
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Jan 11, 2015 17:11
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Dapper Dan posted:I have absolutely no experience with MET rules except it relied on some sort of RPS system. Yeah, CWoD MET... Ugh. Don't get me started. Don't get me wrong, I had a lot of fun playing and STing Vampire, Werewolf, and Changeling in that system, but they're pretty fundamentally broken compared to their tabletop counterparts, and that's saying something, given CWoD tabletop's clunkiness. Especially with Werewolf, good lord. Having played in an Apocalypse 20th game with two different characters over the span of a year and a half, the game works TONS better with dice and dots than with R/P/S and Traits. So many things get lost in translation. Great example is the Get of Fenris' "Might of Thor" Gift. In tabletop, it doubles your Strength dots for the number of turns equal to your successes. It's a Rank 3 Gift, so it's relatively strong. In MET, it's an Intermediate-level Gift that doubles your number of Strength-Related Physical Traits, which, for a well-made character, typically only increases your Trait number by four to five, which is pretty mediocre when your average Garou/BSD/Fomori/Insert antagonist here is throwing around 20-26 Traits at that same power level. This isn't even factoring in the X number of ways that retests factor into a given challenge. I could go on about how awkwardly things translate between the systems for hours, but I think I've gotten the point across. The BNS MET system, however, seems to look very promising on paper. I've got a softcover of their VTM book, and the system looks like it's a lot more streamlined and simplistic. I'd love to see it in practice, or play in a game using it when I've got a more stable life situation. If their Apocalypse book is anything like the Masquerade book, I'd be really excited to pick up a copy when it hits, given that W:tA has been my favorite CWoD line to play. Tailfnz fucked around with this message at 00:27 on Jan 12, 2015 |
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Jan 12, 2015 00:17
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The MES/Camarilla has been running on BNS for ten months now, and everybody seems to love it. The short version of BNS is as follows: You have your three OWoD Attribute categories (Physical, Mental, Social) and a truncated skill list, each of which goes to 5. Attribute + Skill + bonus = Pool. (You also get a focus for each category which shows what you're best at, like Strength, Intelligence, or Perception, and these give a small bonus sometimes and also your Disciplines get small extra abilities if you have the right focus.) To do a challenge that is not against another player, you do RPS. If you win, you succeed. If you win and your pool is higher than the difficulty (which starts at 5 and goes to 30 for really epic stuff- the example given for difficulty 30 is "Climbing a ladder with a broken leg during a chase in the rain while your enemy is shooting at you"), you get an exceptional success, which could be getting a lock open more quickly or setting a bone so well that it heals faster. If you tie, you compare your pool to the difficulty, and if you fail, you can retest, but there's very few things that provide retests other than Willpower, of which you have a limited supply, and there can only be one Willpower retest per test, period. To do one that's against another player, you use their defense pool instead of a difficulty and you can claim an Overbid retest if you've got double their pool, but there's still only one Willpower retest, period. It's much, much quicker, the combat system's been overhauled and runs much faster, and it's just all-around better. The only complaint I have so far is that the rules for the other gamelines aren't out yet.
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Jan 12, 2015 11:08
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Tailfnz posted:Yeah, CWoD MET... Ugh. Don't get me started. Yeah, I've only LARPed once as kind of 'I'm probably never going to do it again, so why not try it?' and it was a disaster. The friend I dragged to it still gives me a little bit of poo poo about it so I never really learned the rules. And that all sounds pretty crazy. I imagine there must be a fundamental problem converting things from dice to a RPS mechanic and it doesn't surprise me that things can get lovely and don't cross over well with the older MET system.
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Jan 12, 2015 20:39
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Dapper Dan posted:Yeah, I've only LARPed once as kind of 'I'm probably never going to do it again, so why not try it?' and it was a disaster. The friend I dragged to it still gives me a little bit of poo poo about it so I never really learned the rules. And that all sounds pretty crazy. I imagine there must be a fundamental problem converting things from dice to a RPS mechanic and it doesn't surprise me that things can get lovely and don't cross over well with the older MET system. Yeah, BNS MET is far more similar to Tabletop in terms of sheet structure, so anyone familiar with CWoD tabletop can probably pick it up and go pretty quickly. LARP can be fun, even if you've got lovely rules, as long as you have good people to play with. A bad community is worse than any defunct ruleset. Seriously, the Elysium in the last game where I used to play was nicknamed 'The Murder-Torium' after so many people were straight up murdered by other players (loving TREMERE) there. 
Tailfnz fucked around with this message at 21:04 on Jan 12, 2015 |
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Jan 12, 2015 21:02
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Tailfnz posted:Yeah, BNS MET is far more similar to Tabletop in terms of sheet structure, so anyone familiar with CWoD tabletop can probably pick it up and go pretty quickly. LARP can be fun, even if you've got lovely rules, as long as you have good people to play with. A bad community is worse than any defunct ruleset. Seriously, the Elysium in the last game where I used to play was nicknamed 'The Murder-Torium' after so many people were straight up murdered by other players (loving TREMERE) there. The proper response to Tremere being Tremere is to show up to their chantry with pizza for their ghouls (the pizza is a firebomb)
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Jan 12, 2015 21:37
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