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Hobo Clown posted:They described him as having "animal rage" based off a 20 minute conversation, I'm not surprised he didn't trust them with an interview. They were quoting Jay's description of himself, though.
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Dec 31, 2014 15:31
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Whatever else, I don't really blame Jay for not wanting to talk to Koenig, and for wanting to give an interview in the aftermath of just how popular Serial got (which I don't think anyone was anticipating). I don't think it makes him look any more or less suspicious than before, I think it makes him look like someone who doesn't especially want to be in the public eye, but who also doesn't want the entire podcast-listening populace of the planet accusing him of murder based on, well, not a lot. As for whether he can be believed, well, "why would he lie" is a question that has plenty of credible answers, but that doesn't necessarily mean that he's lying (beyond the fact that the details he relates are not consistent). He deserves, at the very least, the same benefit of the doubt that Adnan does.
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Dec 31, 2014 15:36
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Hobo Clown posted:I can't imagine Jay or even SK would have figured at the time that the story would have blown up like this. It sounds like he thought it was just a radio program airing in another state, and probably figured it would just go away if he didn't talk about it. Now that it's super popular and his life is under the microscope he wanted to defend himself, and didn't want to do it with the reporter who he felt had an agenda against him. They described him as having "animal rage" based off a 20 minute conversation, I'm not surprised he didn't trust them with an interview. The amazing part is Jay forgot that he was the one who said he was feeling animal rage. Unless they were misquoting him in serial... His memory sure is poo poo when it comes to things that happened several months ago let alone 15 years
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Dec 31, 2014 15:38
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Jay posted:So I continued questioning her, and it was clear there were key people who weren't talking to her. Like Hae's family, the detectives, and other people who ducked and dodged lawyers and cops so they wouldn't come to testify. Not to go Reddit conspiracy theory, but I'm surprised this line from Part 2 of Jay's interview isn't raising more eyebrows. We know there are people, known to be involved with the case, that wouldn't speak to Koenig (e.g. Stephanie, Hae's family, etc.), but that last part of Jay's statement makes it sound like he knows people with information about the case who never came forward to the police.
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Dec 31, 2014 16:03
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Shitshow posted:SK didn't even have a business card with her name on it. How incredulous would you feel? I have access to Google. It seems to me more and more likely that either Adnan did it or there is a Third Party involved somehow. I kept thinking this throughout the entire podcast. Jay and Adnan could absolutely be part of it, but even with the timeline given, that doesn't mean someone else didn't do the deed and these two sought to cover it up after a panic.
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Dec 31, 2014 16:26
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Personally, I find everything Jay says in these interviews to be distinctly BS-y, and this new story veers so wildly off the path of his old stories (including destroying any vestige of sticking with the cell records, as he had previously), I just don't see how anyone can buy it. His old stories were riddled with lies, and I don't get a ring of truth from any of these new changes either. It's very odd, but I find the entire thing suspect.
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Dec 31, 2014 16:39
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Honestly with a case like this, the idea of it being that other guy they mentioned in Episode 12 makes sense to a degree. But yeah, I don't understand why many are giving Jay's claims credibility when his story keeps changing.
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Dec 31, 2014 16:45
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I think someone else somewhere said the more that the key players talk the more confusing things get. Nothing about this interview is about Jay now finally deciding to tell his side of the story, it's completely reactionary, including some vague effort to discredit SK (It doesn't help in his facebook post where he says he'll finally 'tell the truth' about Koenig). He yet again can't keep his story straight. It doesn't admonish or let anyone off the hook either way. The thing I don't get, unless it's been explained, is that both Jay and Adnan have said that they weren't particularly friends (Adnan says it early on, Jay reiterates it) yet why loan a dude you wouldn't call a friend your car and phone? They're a lot more familiar than they both let on. If I vaguely know a person, I'm not going to lend them my stuff. DrVenkman fucked around with this message at 17:41 on Dec 31, 2014 |
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Dec 31, 2014 17:38
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Jastiger posted:I have access to Google. Didn't Koenig completely blindside Jay by showing up at his house unannounced, asking questions about a traumatic event from his past, completely uninvited? And your response is to "google it"? lol, dude.
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Dec 31, 2014 18:12
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Daikatana Ritsu posted:Didn't Koenig completely blindside Jay by showing up at his house unannounced, asking questions about a traumatic event from his past, completely uninvited? And your response is to "google it"? lol, dude. That's exactly what he did though. "My wife took all our kids upstairs. And I think she started Googling Sarah and the other producer. I was downstairs and asked them if they had any business cards that said who they were." He didn't know if they were legit when they first came inside, but by the time she wrote him that email and he declined to be interviewed he should probably have known that they were actual reporters. He would still have no idea that the "radio show" she was working on would get this big though. Perhaps if he'd known it would cause millions of people to assume he's a murderer he would have assented to the interview earlier.
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Dec 31, 2014 18:32
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The point is that's not how it should have happened in the first place and shows a complete lack of respect towards everyone involved.
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Dec 31, 2014 18:41
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DrVenkman posted:The thing I don't get, unless it's been explained, is that both Jay and Adnan have said that they weren't particularly friends (Adnan says it early on, Jay reiterates it) yet why loan a dude you wouldn't call a friend your car and phone? They're a lot more familiar than they both let on. If I vaguely know a person, I'm not going to lend them my stuff. If Adnan was planning to do something as extreme as murdering his ex, it makes sense that he'd also do something as outlandish as letting someone borrow his car and phone. As in, it probably seemed like a logical thing to do at the time, but none of us can understand it because we're not in the single-focused mindset of "I'm going to kill my ex girlfriend as soon as I see her today". Just a possible explanation.
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Dec 31, 2014 18:43
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Also he knew the detectives and Hae's family weren't participating so it was going to be a one sided mess.
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Dec 31, 2014 18:48
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Ok... I have been thinking a lot about Jay's lies and for me it all really boils down to one key point (if I understand the law correctly). If at any point on the 13th or before Adnan told Jay he was planning to kill his girlfriend while they were driving around town, and Jay continued to assist him by driving him around town, buying a shovel, accepting his phone and car as an alibi, and potentially driving him to and from the murder site (I know its debated if all or any of these exactly happened that day), then Jay is not just an accessory to murder after the fact (pretty bad by itself), he aided and abetted a premeditated murder BEFORE it happened. I think the law treats this much more seriously including the possibility that the accessory can be charged with 1st degree murder too. You can bet Jay knew this, and you can bet the detectives and prosecutors knew this, and they probably had a good idea that the crime really originated with Adnan and not Jay so they clearly cut Jay a deal to get what they viewed as the greater evil in this: Adnan. Telling Jay that he could potentially be in much more serious trouble if he didn't go along. This makes all of Jay's lies about what time he was at Jenn's house etc etc make more sense, because the timeline of the day probably included a lot less playing video games with Jenn's brother and a lot more of helping to execute a murder. Jays story has changed seven times. Adnan story has stayed the same, because Adnan has no story! He totally forgets everything that happens after school even though the cops called him that very night asking if he could remember anything about his precious Hae who had gone missing that day, who he still loved and respected and even paged the night before even though she had dumped him for cool guy Don from Lenscrafters. We have to choose in this case between the guy who tells seven different version of the truth that all contain the same key element (Adnan popped his trunk and showed him dead Hae, and Jay helps to bury) vs the guy who doesn't know or seem to care what he was doing on that day. I mean if Adnan is guilty of anything he is guilty of perpetuating the stereotype of the clueless stoner teen. Maybe I am totally out to lunch but this is pretty much my thoughts on the case, but I hope the DNA evidence gets tested it should have been in 1999.
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Dec 31, 2014 19:43
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Daikatana Ritsu posted:The point is that's not how it should have happened in the first place and shows a complete lack of respect towards everyone involved. Daikatana Ritsu posted:Didn't Koenig completely blindside Jay by showing up at his house unannounced, asking questions about a traumatic event from his past, completely uninvited? And your response is to "google it"? lol, dude. It is kind of a "dick move" (SK's words, not mine) but that doesn't exonerate him from being ignorant about it. Definitely sketchy at first, but he totally had time to Google her, look it up, and figure out what is going on. I mean he could have just typed in the This American Life website and her name would show up there. The first interview? Totally sketchy. After that though? He intentionally kept himself out of it and is now acting all "b-b-b-but its not fair I didn't get my side told". No. He had Google, he was an adult, he could have figured out what was happening. I'm not saying he was obligated to participate, I'm just saying the whole argument of "but he didn't' know who she was" is kind of invalidated. By the time he got that email, he knew, and he chose not to participate.
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Jan 1, 2015 00:47
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Jastiger posted:It is kind of a "dick move" (SK's words, not mine) but that doesn't exonerate him from being ignorant about it. Definitely sketchy at first, but he totally had time to Google her, look it up, and figure out what is going on. I mean he could have just typed in the This American Life website and her name would show up there. The first interview? Totally sketchy. After that though? He intentionally kept himself out of it and is now acting all "b-b-b-but its not fair I didn't get my side told". Why? Really why? Why does he HAVE to talk to her the first time, or do anything in this case? What gave her the right to come knock on his door and demand him talk to her then turn around and go "Dick move" [for not talking with us]. Guess what she the one who is getting money from his story not him. Adults do not have to talk to anyone they do not want to unless the person asking the questions are part of law enforcement. Also I don't think its about getting his side told, he was done with it. Its just as simple as he doesn't want to cast in a bad light and have people from the internet calling his house and sending him death threats. Which they are... 100%
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Jan 1, 2015 00:57
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Tormented posted:Why? Did you read what I wrote or are you just making stuff up out of thin air? He wasn't obligated to talk to her the first time, I specifically said that. I said he can't say "I didn't know who she was after all of this" which isn't true. He could have (and did) Google her credentials to find that she wasn't just some crazy lady.She was who she said she was on the cards. He said in the interview (months later) that he didn't' know who she was. Which is either false or he genuinely doesn't "get" how to use the internet and media. And she said it was a dick move OF HER not of him for going to his door.
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Jan 1, 2015 01:05
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Yeah she clearly pointed out in that episode that she knew that it wasn't the greatest move to go to his house, but she believed that was their best chance of him talking to them at all, which he did.
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Jan 1, 2015 01:15
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Tormented posted:
I think she had a bit of an obligation to do everything in her power to contact Jay and explain the story she was doing, how he was involved in it and to give him an opportunity to tell his side of it. If he wasn't responding to e-mails or phone calls, just going to his home to talk to him makes sense. Jay is a really important part of this story, if Koenig hadn't done everything possible to contact him, even if it was kind of a jerk move, I think she would be remiss. Where she really screwed up though is just showing up at his home unannounced, without even so much as a business card to demonstrate that she is actually a reporter and what she is doing is legit. If some random person showed up on my doorstep claiming to be a reporter and asking questions about my history with no proof of who they are I would tell them to get lost too.
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Jan 1, 2015 02:39
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I agree with the last part that she should have had some kind of ID or something basic.
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Jan 1, 2015 02:59
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Can anyone confirm that the turn signal / windshield wiper bar was broken in Hae's car?
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Jan 1, 2015 03:03
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Shitshow posted:Can anyone confirm that the turn signal / windshield wiper bar was broken in Hae's car? Yes, it was listed in the original crime scene report for the car. As well as a couple of the court documents. EDIT: Note about in on page 8 of this court brief. https://pdf.yt/d/PUUcby-AZWfEhcuW Geekslinger fucked around with this message at 07:07 on Jan 1, 2015 |
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Jan 1, 2015 06:58
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Geekslinger posted:Yes, it was listed in the original crime scene report for the car. As well as a couple of the court documents. This is a pretty crucial piece of evidence that clearly demonstrates that some extreme violence occurred in Hae's car. It's also very likely that violence was visited on her by someone so well-known to her that she would let them in her car in the first place. Did Koenig ever mention this in the podcast? I don't recall hearing it...
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Jan 1, 2015 16:24
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Jastiger posted:It is kind of a "dick move" (SK's words, not mine) but that doesn't exonerate him from being ignorant about it. Definitely sketchy at first, but he totally had time to Google her, look it up, and figure out what is going on. I mean he could have just typed in the This American Life website and her name would show up there. The first interview? Totally sketchy. After that though? He intentionally kept himself out of it and is now acting all "b-b-b-but its not fair I didn't get my side told". Calling what she did a "dick move" and immediately moving on with the story strikes me as her brushing this under the rug rather than dealing with the reality of what happened. Another thing that bothered me about it was the inherent guilt laid upon Jay before she even spoke to him. Why would she be so willing to violate this man's personal life and family if she felt he wasn't hiding something? Why didn't she go after Hae or Adnan's family as hard? It's an insidious narrative drawn out to back her own feelings on the case at the time, and to get the listeners on the same side. And it worked. Regardless of how she feels about the case now, the damage is done. For someone who claimed to be impartial about the whole thing she sure did a piss poor job of it. Daikatana Ritsu fucked around with this message at 16:38 on Jan 1, 2015 |
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Jan 1, 2015 16:35
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I am definitely not well-versed in these fields, but I have read that using tactics like showing up uninvited to get interviews is not all that unusual for a journalist. This makes sense to me, since I feel, if you're trying to get the whole truth and give everyone a voice, you're responsible for doing everything possible to contact everyone involved, including the reluctant or seemingly unwilling.
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Jan 1, 2015 16:43
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She made it pretty clear in that episode that she wanted to do everything possible to speak with him since he was so crucial to the case. The family of Hae or Adnan are peripheral, and we don't know how hard she tried there or not. I don't have an issue with the approach.
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Jan 1, 2015 16:46
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FlamingLiberal posted:She made it pretty clear in that episode that she wanted to do everything possible to speak with him since he was so crucial to the case. The family of Hae or Adnan are peripheral, and we don't know how hard she tried there or not. I don't have an issue with the approach. In what world do you live in where the victim's family and the convicts family is peripheral?
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Jan 1, 2015 16:47
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Maybe I'm remembering wrong, but wasn't there a short interview with Adnan's mother in the episode where they cover his dating Hae? And I thought Koenig made it clear that she tried everything she could to reach Hae's family and was unsuccessful.
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Jan 1, 2015 17:00
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Daikatana Ritsu posted:Why didn't she go after Hae or Adnan's family as hard? Jesus, wasn't the thread ragging on SK for going after Hae's family as hard as she did just a few pages ago? Also, I count Rabia as Adnan's family, and she basically ensured there was a Serial in the first place.
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Jan 1, 2015 17:06
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Daikatana Ritsu posted:In what world do you live in where the victim's family and the convicts family is peripheral?
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Jan 1, 2015 17:06
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Combed Thunderclap posted:Jesus, wasn't the thread ragging on SK for going after Hae's family as hard as she did just a few pages ago? That's exactly my point though. If she did go after Hae's family as hard as she went after Jay, there would be no question of its inappropriateness. But because it's Jay, people seem okay with it.
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Jan 1, 2015 17:11
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Schlitzkrieg Bop posted:Maybe I'm remembering wrong, but wasn't there a short interview with Adnan's mother in the episode where they cover his dating Hae? And I thought Koenig made it clear that she tried everything she could to reach Hae's family and was unsuccessful. Her parents were divorced - the dad was in California (which is what they thought happened initially - she ran off to him) and after she died her mom moved back to South Korea.
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Jan 1, 2015 17:15
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Daikatana Ritsu posted:That's exactly my point though. If she did go after Hae's family as hard as she went after Jay, there would be no question of its inappropriateness. But because it's Jay, people seem okay with it. Nah i think you're simply wrong on this. She went after everyone and explained how it turned out. Jay is different because, and this is a wee bit more important: IT WAS HIS TESTIMONY THAT IS THE REALLY FOR THE ENTIRE PODCAST. I don't get why you're all hung up on SK being all out to get him. Plus even if it were true, remember, at the time the podcast wasn't out and heard by him. So he has no idea what her notions are, only that she is there. You're looking at her interview through the lense of all 12 episodes. At the time none of that was known. So yeah she said it was a dick move, but he intentionally put his head in the sand on it until now.
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Jan 1, 2015 17:54
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At the heart of the podcast is the idea that there are is reasonable doubt that Jay's story as told during the trial is true, with the only possible other explenation being that Jay killed Hae to get back at Adnan for being "close" with Stephanie. They have a few red herrings that get thrown around, like the guy that found Hae or some serial killer, but the core thesis of the podcast is "Jay killed Hae and framed Adnan". If Jay talked to SK she could edit it in a way that is supports her story while not mentioning the parts that dont work and of course frame the interview in a very unfavorable light for Jay. He had to use some other publication to tell his side of the story.
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Jan 1, 2015 18:01
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Jastiger posted:Nah i think you're simply wrong on this. She went after everyone and explained how it turned out. Jay is different because, and this is a wee bit more important: IT WAS HIS TESTIMONY THAT IS THE REALLY FOR THE ENTIRE PODCAST. I don't get why you're all hung up on SK being all out to get him. I don't think it's being "hung up" on something when that something actually happened in reality. You don't think appearing at his house is an aggressive move at all? Really? Even if she had backed off by the end of the show, like I said before - the damage is already done. A majority of internet detectives think Jay is outright guilty of murder (complete insanity) or not telling the whole truth (a little more likely). Either way, I believe they got the right guy. You can argue whether Jay should have faced time for helping with the body all you want, but he still didn't kill anyone. I mean I get that it's fun to romanticize the story of a murdered teenager and try to find the truth, but ask yourself why Hae's family has kept quiet if they believe the wrong person is behind bars. That's the bottom line for me.
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Jan 1, 2015 18:07
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Daikatana Ritsu posted:I don't think it's being "hung up" on something when that something actually happened in reality. You don't think appearing at his house is an aggressive move at all? Really? Even if she had backed off by the end of the show, like I said before - the damage is already done. A majority of internet detectives think Jay is outright guilty of murder (complete insanity) or not telling the whole truth (a little more likely). Either way, I believe they got the right guy. You can argue whether Jay should have faced time for helping with the body all you want, but he still didn't kill anyone. If you are a journalist trying to get to the bottom of what happened, talking to the person who claims to have been an eyewitness and something of a participant in the aftermath of Hae's murder is rather more important than talking to people who have no idea what happened the day their daughter died. Does that mean that Koenig did no wrong in pursuing Jay the way she did? No, I'm not really comfortable with it either. But I absolutely see why she was more aggressive in trying to get an interview with him than in trying to get an interview with Hae's mother. And, while, again, I think she probably shouldn't have showed up at his house unannounced, I thought the way she told his story was pretty fair. She certainly didn't accuse him of murder (and people who think that Serial was in any way intended to be Jay Really Did It: The Podcast are lunatics).
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Jan 1, 2015 18:51
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In the third part of the interview with The Intercept Jay says he suspects Sarah of leaking confidential documents to Reddit, so there's no way someone that stupid could have framed someone else for murder
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Jan 1, 2015 20:39
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docbeard posted:And, while, again, I think she probably shouldn't have showed up at his house unannounced, I thought the way she told his story was pretty fair. She certainly didn't accuse him of murder (and people who think that Serial was in any way intended to be Jay Really Did It: The Podcast are lunatics). I actually think her showing up at Jay's house unannounced was ok. She had repeatedly e-mailed and called him at that point but received no response. For me, and I think a lot of other people,. it felt like Jay held the missing pieces of the story. If she didn't do everything in her power to try to get him to talk to her and tell his side of what happened I think she would have been remiss. Now, how she actually handled showing up at his home is a totally different thing. It seems like she totally screwed that up.
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Jan 1, 2015 21:26
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xbilkis posted:In the third part of the interview with The Intercept Jay says he suspects Sarah of leaking confidential documents to Reddit, so there's no way someone that stupid could have framed someone else for murder
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Jan 1, 2015 21:56
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Daikatana Ritsu posted:That's exactly my point though. If she did go after Hae's family as hard as she went after Jay, there would be no question of its inappropriateness. But because it's Jay, people seem okay with it. I mean - the dude's testimony singlehandedly sent a kid to away to rot for the rest of his life, and we know that he lied about many details of that testimony. Because like, admits that he lied. The reedit crucifixtiom of Jay is dumb and unfair - but the guy is due a little more scrutiny then like... the sad mom who put zero teenagers in jail.
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Jan 1, 2015 22:35
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