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Nessus posted:
I think it would be appropriate to take anything said in this thread with a massive grain of salt. Maybe an entire portable salt mine?
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Jan 2, 2015 03:56
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No poo poo?
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drunkencarp posted:And that right there is why I -- a lonely basement-dwelling neckbeard superfan who threw many hundreds of dollars at the Exalted kickstarter -- have declined to support any other of the Onyx Path kickstarters. That's the definition of an overreaction, then. Every other OP kickstarter has been pretty dreamy instead of a complete shitshow.
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Jan 2, 2015 04:04
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Stallion Cabana posted:They didn't. They freely admitted once the kickstarter was over that they only made that date up because they were worried that someone else would take the game from them and do it wrong. Someone else? Who else?
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Jan 2, 2015 04:05
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Transient People posted:That's the definition of an overreaction, then. Every other OP kickstarter has been pretty dreamy instead of a complete shitshow. Yeah every other Kickstarter has been real good. DeadReed posted:Someone else? Who else? Who knows. Neph? I dunno. Holden has been pretty open about this, too. It's not like it's a secret.
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Jan 2, 2015 04:06
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Transient People posted:That's the definition of an overreaction, then. Every other OP kickstarter has been pretty dreamy instead of a complete shitshow. I'm absolutely sure that was sarcastic E: lol it would be cool if Holden wasn't banned b/c he would be the second tradgames goon KS to lie like a motherfucker about kickstarter... unless there is someone other than Gau who did that?
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Jan 2, 2015 04:14
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TheLovablePlutonis posted:I'm absolutely sure that was sarcastic Red Mage?
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Jan 2, 2015 04:21
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I haven't actually seen any of that. Do you have a link for it? Not that I don't believe you, just that I couldn't believe that a developer would do that.
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Jan 2, 2015 06:41
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Stallion Cabana posted:They didn't. They freely admitted once the kickstarter was over that they only made that date up because they were worried that someone else would take the game from them and do it wrong. It might be more accurate to say that it's more, the estimate they gave for December 2012 was to get approval from CCP and was never a realistic one. The October 2013 estimate was on track, if possibly overly optimistic, but then a bunch of people got sick/abducted by aliens/cancer and slowed the project down. Continued health problems, plus I'm also willing to bet that waiting for playtesting feedback and the playtest leak, haven't helped.
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Jan 2, 2015 20:22
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kongurous posted:It might be more accurate to say that it's more, the estimate they gave for December 2012 was to get approval from CCP and was never a realistic one. The October 2013 estimate was on track, if possibly overly optimistic, but then a bunch of people got sick/abducted by aliens/cancer and slowed the project down. Continued health problems, plus I'm also willing to bet that waiting for playtesting feedback and the playtest leak, haven't helped.
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Jan 2, 2015 22:16
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Nessus posted:Leaving aside criticism of the stupid, stupid playtesting policy, I imagine the book would have progressed much faster if Morke hadn't had some kind of mystery alien parasite in his neck, yeah. I don't know if it's be out now, but it might be. His neck is better now, yeah.
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Jan 2, 2015 22:45
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Rand Brittain posted:His neck is better now, yeah.
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Jan 2, 2015 22:55
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Nessus posted:Leaving aside criticism of the stupid, stupid playtesting policy, I imagine the book would have progressed much faster if Morke hadn't had some kind of mystery alien parasite in his neck, yeah. I don't know if it's be out now, but it might be. It may have been, but. You know. If "ifs and buts" were candy and nuts, we'd all have a merry christmas.
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Jan 3, 2015 00:48
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Exalted is the worst handled kick starter I've ever funded. And I regret it every time I see this thread that I was dumb enough to fund it. The developers are amateurs themselves, and it shows in the lovely way they've handled everything. They want to hide away in their bubble working on the game and sometime going 'oh yeah it looks pretty good' when basically every other RPG company nowadays has public rules testing, semi quality customer interaction, and certainly doesn't go 'well if you leak the game any more why shouldn't we just make the game worse to spite you'. Just comparing them to every other Onyx Path gameline,z the devs are poo poo and the development ofthe product is super terrible. Even if 3e comes out and its basically good, I hope Holden and this team is mostly dethroned for 4e, and put back to writing material but not running the line. This whole kickstsrter feels like evidence that none of them have management skills, or a personality fit for running a game line.
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Jan 3, 2015 01:35
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KittyEmpress posted:Exalted is the worst handled kick starter I've ever funded. Doesn't even break my top four. This is less due to being good and more that I've had some weird kickstarter problems happen. It's hard to beat the World of Synnibar 2e one (backed entirely to see what Raven C.S. McCracken's crazed genius would come up with even if it'd undoubtably be unplayable) where he wrote a post about wanting to shoot someone and then vanished off the face of the Earth. Kind of feel awkward about backing that one now...
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Jan 3, 2015 03:48
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gourdcaptain posted:Doesn't even break my top four. This is less due to being good and more that I've had some weird kickstarter problems happen. It's hard to beat the World of Synnibar 2e one (backed entirely to see what Raven C.S. McCracken's crazed genius would come up with even if it'd undoubtably be unplayable) where he wrote a post about wanting to shoot someone and then vanished off the face of the Earth. Kind of feel awkward about backing that one now... Also some time after that the first draft or something rules came out and they're loving incomprehensible.
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Jan 3, 2015 03:57
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Zereth posted:3e. Yeah, I've got them around somewhere. They make my copy of 1e look downright comprehensible and sane. And they're not nearly as fun to read. Anyway, Exalted 3e is at least going to presumably eventually deliver something semi-comprehensible (if probably not something I'd ever want to play, but I'm so burned out on caring about Exalted due to some terrible campaigns I'm almost hoping the final game's just fun to riff and dissect) or continue being the most amazingly entertaining soap opera of a development cycle I've seen.
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Jan 3, 2015 04:14
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gourdcaptain posted:Yeah, I've got them around somewhere. They make my copy of 1e look downright comprehensible and sane. And they're not nearly as fun to read. Anyway, Exalted 3e is at least going to presumably eventually deliver something semi-comprehensible (if probably not something I'd ever want to play, but I'm so burned out on caring about Exalted due to some terrible campaigns I'm almost hoping the final game's just fun to riff and dissect) or continue being the most amazingly entertaining soap opera of a development cycle I've seen. Because the latter is actually 2e. Another way to tell is if there are rules for cybernetics.
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Jan 3, 2015 04:34
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gourdcaptain posted:Yeah, I've got them around somewhere. They make my copy of 1e look downright comprehensible and sane. And they're not nearly as fun to read. Anyway, Exalted 3e is at least going to presumably eventually deliver something semi-comprehensible (if probably not something I'd ever want to play, but I'm so burned out on caring about Exalted due to some terrible campaigns I'm almost hoping the final game's just fun to riff and dissect) or continue being the most amazingly entertaining soap opera of a development cycle I've seen. I also backed that kickstarter. I never expected to get a good game out of it, but I expected it to at least be amusing. But it was just boring and bewildering. Tremendous disappointment.
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Jan 3, 2015 05:18
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gourdcaptain posted:Doesn't even break my top four. This is less due to being good and more that I've had some weird kickstarter problems happen. It's hard to beat the World of Synnibar 2e one (backed entirely to see what Raven C.S. McCracken's crazed genius would come up with even if it'd undoubtably be unplayable) where he wrote a post about wanting to shoot someone and then vanished off the face of the Earth. Kind of feel awkward about backing that one now... Exalted: not as bad as the projects run by unironic madmen probably currently living in caves decorated with the dried entrails of truckstop hookers
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Jan 3, 2015 05:18
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Ronwayne posted:Exalted: not as bad as the projects run by unironic madmen probably currently living in caves decorated with the dried entrails of truckstop hookers Low standards are better than no standards.
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Jan 3, 2015 05:41
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Zereth posted:Does your 1e book have a lady with wings and a chainmail bikini on the cover, or does it have two guys riding a hovercycle fighting a dragon? Huh. I've got 2e apparently. I'd never even known their was a 1e - every PDF or other scan of the cover of the book I've ever seen and my print copy looks like that.
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Jan 3, 2015 06:37
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2e is basically 1e with some more stuff in it (like cybernetics) and an actual layout.
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Jan 3, 2015 06:48
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Zereth posted:2e is basically 1e with some more stuff in it (like cybernetics) and an actual layout. ....I'm amazed he got enough funding pre-Kickstarter to publish TWICE. Anyway, on the topic: I'm kind of amazed you can pull stuff like blatantly fabricating release dates to your bosses to keep them from assigning it to someone else, publicly admit this, and not have your bosses react in the slightest. Not that I'm too surprised, WW's entire existence has had a minimal to no quality control from on top - how else do you explain all the art in Exalted (especially all the stuff they claim they had no control over because the artist turned in something completely off the original specification and they didn't have time to redo it. Does every artist willing to work on TRPGs blatantly ignore specifications or something? Mind you, I've also heard that layout without consulting anyone on either a WW or Catalyst book just cut entire rules sections without telling anyone for space that were kind of needed. There's probably some deep communications issues here.) EDIT: Meanwhile, over on RPG.net, Exalted devs are being bizarrely insistent they had to make contraceptives less perfectly effective in order to make the West more important. THIS IS A THING. StephenIS posted:The concern being expressed here is that certain elements of human biology lead to semi-inevitable oppression of women on both a micro- and macro-scale unless glossed over or otherwise dealt with -- witness how, in my example above, the solution for getting out of the consequences of an unwanted school pregnancy without chemical abortifacents for a female student is "Induce abortion some other way," which is unpleasant but at least a choice the student makes for herself, while the solution for getting out of the consequences of an unwanted school pregnancy for a male student is... "Induce abortion some other way," still, possibly without the mother's consent. That is some casual violence against women right there. This extends to every other element of the setting, from the practicality of women serving in armies to the practicality of women having full autonomy w/regards to how sexually active they want to be. It also leads to this quote from a developer: The Demented One posted:"Proper condom use" is not equivalent to the supernal talent of a demigod. gourdcaptain fucked around with this message at 07:07 on Jan 3, 2015 |
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Jan 3, 2015 06:57
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I, The Lovable Plutonis, refuse to read any more words about fantasy birth control and instead ask for Lea to tell when they are releasing the book and whether they accept us taking devs hostage.
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Jan 3, 2015 07:34
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Lea and Vance aren't devs.
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Jan 3, 2015 07:37
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I'm asking him to serve as an intermediate, brother.
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Jan 3, 2015 07:43
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gourdcaptain posted:Does every artist willing to work on TRPGs blatantly ignore specifications or something? No, that's every artist in every enterprise that is not absolutely ludicrously cutthroat (we're talking 'bitch once and you're out you insolent wage slave' cutthroat). I've talked with people in the videogame industry and film artists and it's pretty much always like that. If you don't convince the artists to follow your lead, you gotta pick new ones or accept poo poo not going like you envision it.
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Jan 3, 2015 10:21
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gourdcaptain posted:Anyway, on the topic: I'm kind of amazed you can pull stuff like blatantly fabricating release dates to your bosses to keep them from assigning it to someone else, publicly admit this, and not have your bosses react in the slightest. What are they gonna do, be fired? They're freelancers, they work on commission anyway, and it's not like Rich is giving the job to write Exalted to anyone else.
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Jan 3, 2015 11:50
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quote:Other games handwave it, which is fine, but Exalted can't get away with handwaving that because Exalted doesn't handwave economics or logistics. quote:The unreliability of the cheaper versions exists on a larger context of statistical measurements and economic supply and demand. Recall that the writers have opposed including any sort of run-a-business/state mechanics in this edition on the grounds that they'd rather focus on gritty/personal sword and sandal adventure.
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Jan 3, 2015 15:03
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A_Raving_Loon posted:Recall that the writers have opposed including any sort of run-a-business/state mechanics in this edition on the grounds that they'd rather focus on gritty/personal sword and sandal adventure. I winced at that line too, since handwaving economics and logistics is exactly what we were told STs would be doing in lieu of a Bureaucracy subsystem.
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Jan 3, 2015 16:26
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A_Raving_Loon posted:Recall that the writers have opposed including any sort of run-a-business/state mechanics in this edition on the grounds that they'd rather focus on gritty/personal sword and sandal adventure. 
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Jan 3, 2015 16:35
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For the abortion talk, I think that is just writers musing on their worlds. After all, they are still waiting on final editing, so why not think of things in the world? Exalted is a huge place with lots of stuff going on with various cultures and ideas. Some poo poo will be weird.
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Jan 3, 2015 16:43
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Calde posted:I winced at that line too, since handwaving economics and logistics is exactly what we were told STs would be doing in lieu of a Bureaucracy subsystem. Something can have an effect on the plot or background of a setting without detailed mechanics to cover it. They already said on the rpg.net thread that Maiden Tea is going to use basically the same rules its always used. The fact that different varieties of varying quality exist and that the ingredients for the best stuff are an expensive commodity outside of the West is presumably a plot thing rather than a mechanics thing.
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Jan 3, 2015 16:48
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The local price of a morning-after pill was key to such ancient myths and classic pulp adventures as
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Jan 3, 2015 16:56
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It sounds more like a way to create exceptions to rules or allow for characters who were "accidents" or whatever even despite precautions. And explain why there are orphanages etc. in a society with cheap and accessible birth control and abortifacients.
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Jan 3, 2015 17:34
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DOCTOR ZIMBARDO posted:And explain why there are orphanages etc. in a society with cheap and accessible birth control and abortifacients. Constant low-level warfare as a fact of life?
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Jan 3, 2015 17:59
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You can literally sell your child's unborn soul to demons in Exalted, you can have spirits or fey creatures feast upon it, and have a numerous ways of naturally ending the pregnancy, most of which is known about and can be traded for. Obviously sex Ed isn't going to be the greatest in a post post post apocalyptic world, however there is still some knowledge available. Maidens tea is also pretty cheap. Why not talk about procreation, birth rates, and various marital or sexual practices of the varied nations of Exalted. It's a huge breathing world. poo poo gets weird at time.
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Jan 3, 2015 18:01
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DOCTOR ZIMBARDO posted:It sounds more like a way to create exceptions to rules or allow for characters who were "accidents" or whatever even despite precautions. And explain why there are orphanages etc. in a society with cheap and accessible birth control and abortifacients. We have those now.
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Jan 3, 2015 18:03
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A_Raving_Loon posted:The local price of a morning-after pill was key to such ancient myths and classic pulp adventures as Maybe not pulp or mythic, but the fact that the Romans ate their naturally-occuring birth-control plant into extinction has always been amusing and sad to me.
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Jan 3, 2015 18:14
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A_Raving_Loon posted:Recall that the writers have opposed including any sort of run-a-business/state mechanics in this edition on the grounds that they'd rather focus on gritty/personal sword and sandal adventure. I'm pretty sure they opposed it because they didn't want to write mechanics that would obviate actually telling stories about running a business with "I roll Bureaucracy, ten successes, looks like I am king of wheat now." Which the Creation-Ruling Mandate rules kind of did, even if it was pretty neat to suddenly turn the First Bureaucracy Excellency into a fantastically powerful Charm.
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Jan 3, 2015 18:33
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