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Digital Jello posted:Yeah, I missed the Selphie "duck and cover" deal too. It actually redeems Rinoa a bit in the sense she's not the only one scared, I guess. But then, we all love Selphie, so it's totally forgiveable when she does that. Selphie is supposed to be a trained professional soldier. She's seen a war and killed people. The fact that she does that kinda bothers me. It's like the game developer's went "She's a woman, she must be scared/emotional, but the men will take it in stride". Actually, given my familiarity with such "amazing" pieces of work like Metroid: Other M and the Suikoden III manga, this might actually be the case. Dammit  Anyways, about the Not Rinoa thing, Being Not Rinoa might be a bonus for every other character, but I'm not going to give passes to these characters just because of that. 
mauman fucked around with this message at 03:06 on Jan 3, 2015 |
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Jan 3, 2015 03:04
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mauman posted:Selphie is supposed to be a trained professional soldier. She's seen a war and killed people. The fact that she does that kinda bothers me. Agreed, but Selphie's personality is also ditzy as hell. To make an off-kilter comparison, there was this Venture Bros. episode I watched long ago where despite all the danger the main cast faced, one of the heroic brothers refused to ever believe that any of the badguys ever actually died. When the mortician would zip up the corpses in body bags, said character would think they were "sleeping bags" for camping or something. I'm not saying Selphie's that stupid (...indirectly, I am), but she doesn't come across as a character who would ever get battle-hardened. The fact that she's always so cheery and upbeat I think is why most of this thread finds her so great. On a side note, I like Selphie myself, too. But that's because Quistis' martyr-ish personality as a "failed instructor" is annoying and Rinoa's just an idiot.
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Jan 3, 2015 03:17
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mauman posted:Selphie is supposed to be a trained professional soldier. She's seen a war and killed people. The fact that she does that kinda bothers me. It's like the game developer's went "She's a woman, she must be scared/emotional, but the men will take it in stride". In all honesty, I'd like to think that she has a sort of sugar-high ADHD. It would explain where she gets all those limit-break spells, anyway. Variant_Eris fucked around with this message at 03:25 on Jan 3, 2015 |
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Jan 3, 2015 03:21
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I think you're a little wrong on some of the things you're saying, Jello, but I need to wait for that long post in the future to respond.
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Jan 3, 2015 03:22
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Digital Jello posted:Agreed, but Selphie's personality is also ditzy as hell. To make an off-kilter comparison, there was this Venture Bros. episode I watched long ago where despite all the danger the main cast faced, one of the heroic brothers refused to ever believe that any of the badguys ever actually died. When the mortician would zip up the corpses in body bags, said character would think they were "sleeping bags" for camping or something. I'm not saying Selphie's that stupid (...indirectly, I am), but she doesn't come across as a character who would ever get battle-hardened. The fact that she's always so cheery and upbeat I think is why most of this thread finds her so great. She's also OK with assassinations (with probable bonus casualties because of her choice of a freaking rocket launcher), has faced down a giant Mecha, and if her SeeD Graduation was anything like Squall's, had to face down some sort of giant magical beast. The fact that she (from all appearances) breaks down because of a weird moving old man who's nowhere near her is just jarring. At this point though I'm probably WAY over thinking this 
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Jan 3, 2015 03:24
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Digital Jello posted:Agreed, but Selphie's personality is also ditzy as hell. To make an off-kilter comparison, there was this Venture Bros. episode I watched long ago where despite all the danger the main cast faced, one of the heroic brothers refused to ever believe that any of the badguys ever actually died. When the mortician would zip up the corpses in body bags, said character would think they were "sleeping bags" for camping or something. I'm not saying Selphie's that stupid (...indirectly, I am), but she doesn't come across as a character who would ever get battle-hardened. The fact that she's always so cheery and upbeat I think is why most of this thread finds her so great. I don't think most people like Selphie because she's cheery and upbeat (that's a super-cliche JRPG trope), it's because she's kinda psychotic about it. She's cheery and upbeat while suggesting blowing people up.
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Jan 3, 2015 03:27
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The SeeDs are trained, but I wouldn't say they're battle-hardened. After all, their first real combat experience was in the field exam, and that was yesterday. I'd agree that a big part of Selphie cowering is probably because she's female, but she's also very green.
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Jan 3, 2015 03:29
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And Squall and Zell are just standing there. No one comes out of this looking good.
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Jan 3, 2015 03:35
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ultrafilter posted:And Squall and Zell are just standing there. No one comes out of this looking good. At least they're still standing rather than practicing the fetal position.
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Jan 3, 2015 03:40
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Schwartzcough posted:I don't think most people like Selphie because she's cheery and upbeat (that's a super-cliche JRPG trope), it's because she's kinda psychotic about it. She's cheery and upbeat while suggesting blowing people up. Definatly a bonus, that's for sure.
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Jan 3, 2015 04:15
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Well, this is the first FF8 LP I've actually viewed (as a whole, without looking at bits and pieces of others), so my insight on Selphie is really only what I've seen so far. You guys bring up a point I hadn't thought about yet.
Digital Jello fucked around with this message at 05:16 on Jan 3, 2015 |
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Jan 3, 2015 05:10
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Mega64 posted:Whoever has the better dialogue. Going with this as well., but if you don't know/remember who this would be, I say instead take Selphie and if we can get rid of Squall then let him be all serious or mope around on the train while Zell comes along for the mission.
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Jan 3, 2015 06:44
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MoadDib posted:Going with this as well., but if you don't know/remember who this would be, I say instead take Selphie and if we can get rid of Squall then let him be all serious or mope around on the train while Zell comes along for the mission. This.
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Jan 3, 2015 06:47
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Rinoa and Selphie So yeah Vinzer Deling kind of looks like George W. Bush when you get a better look. I wonder how Squaresoft predicated that one.
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Jan 3, 2015 08:03
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LEGO Genetics posted:Rinoa and Selphie Probably because he looks like his father.
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Jan 3, 2015 08:14
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Digital Jello posted:Did Gero escape from a Resident Evil game? He looks pretty out of character for an FF badguy Actually, I think it fits pretty well for FF4/5; it's what I thought of as soon as I fought him.
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Jan 3, 2015 10:56
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Voting Rinoa and Selphie. Regarding why Selphie and Rinoa are the only ones crouching I always assumed it had nothing to do with battle readiness and was just blatant sexism. Women should be scared by big scary monsters whilst the men take it in their stride. Despite being a trained killer Selphie can't overcome being a woman in a JRPG. Riona being scared is totally understandable and in character though.
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Jan 3, 2015 11:59
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Weavered posted:Voting Rinoa and Selphie. Pretty much. It's a nasty habit that has.Oh well....different cultures I guess.
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Jan 3, 2015 15:00
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I'm voting to bring Zell because I always make my party two punchers and a mage. That just always made more sense to me in 3 man FF parties. Plus I'm not and have never enamored with Selphie's character.
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Jan 3, 2015 17:43
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SonicRulez posted:I'm voting to bring Zell because I always make my party two punchers and a mage. That just always made more sense to me in 3 man FF parties. Plus I'm not and have never enamored with Selphie's character. With the Junction system, you can very easily make Zell the Mage and Riona the physical powerhouse, since base stats barely vary at all 
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Jan 4, 2015 00:38
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Without junctions, Rinoa is the strongest character by quite a bit.
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Jan 4, 2015 00:42
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Brony Hunter posted:With the Junction system, you can very easily make Zell the Mage and Riona the physical powerhouse, since base stats barely vary at all Zell's Limit Breaks are pretty physically-oriented, so it works out to keep him as the puncher.
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Jan 4, 2015 00:42
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Oh hey, I forgot to vote. Selphie She needs to make up for her lack of professionalism
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Jan 4, 2015 00:43
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inverts posted:Zell's a lot more open when people can't see him, huh?  Couldn't stop my hands from drawing it. [/quote] I'm very lazy, but I finally got around to putting this in the second post. Thanks for the art.
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Jan 4, 2015 01:52
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Cool Ghost posted:Without junctions, Rinoa is the strongest character by quite a bit. Do you mean out of all the people we can use in the party now or in the entire game?
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Jan 4, 2015 06:11
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RareAcumen posted:Do you mean out of all the people we can use in the party now or in the entire game? She has some of the highest base stats in the game.
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Jan 4, 2015 07:05
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RareAcumen posted:Do you mean out of all the people we can use in the party now or in the entire game? In the entire game. Rinoa has the highest base Strength, Magic, and Spirit of all characters.
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Jan 4, 2015 08:41
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Cool Ghost posted:In the entire game. Rinoa has the highest base Strength, Magic, and Spirit of all characters. Yeah, she literally has 20 Str more than Squall at level 100. Her closest competition is that regard is Ward, who is still 11 points behind. Her only 'poor' statistic is Vit, which is still higher than Quistis and Selphie. This actually makes her a bit more useful in a No-Junction game. Oh, Zell.
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Jan 4, 2015 08:52
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Silegna posted:She has some of the highest base stats in the game. Cool Ghost posted:In the entire game. Rinoa has the highest base Strength, Magic, and Spirit of all characters. Huh. Hot drat.
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Jan 4, 2015 09:00
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ApplesandOranges posted:This actually makes her a bit more useful in a No-Junction game. This sounds like a good way to play the game if you want a challenge.
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Jan 4, 2015 10:00
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Her limit breaks are also pretty incredible, though they require a bit more tuning than anyone else's, since her crisis level 1 and 2 breaks will never be great.
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Jan 4, 2015 10:48
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ApplesandOranges posted:
This sounds interesting. Could you elaborate a bit? Considering how integral Junctioning is, I'd be interested in hearing how this plays in. Unless it boils down to something like FFX No Sphere Grid No Aeons Blah Blah which is literally "MIX EVERYTHING EVER"
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Jan 4, 2015 11:13
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A no-junction game means you can't junction GFs to characters, ever. With everything that logically follows from that. This means you can't use command or character abilities, you can't junction magic to stats or elemental/status attack/defense, and you can't have your GFs learn any abilities that they don't already come with. (Notably, however, Forbid Mag-RF comes pre-learned, and you can use that to get Meteor and Ultima into your characters' magic stocks for the purpose of a limit available late in the game.) Since you need a GF even for the basic concept of using items in battle, this basically means you're going through the game with lovely stats and strategic options consisting entirely of a. regular physical attack and b. limits (which are considerably riskier than they normally are, due to lovely stats). There's some strategizing you can do involving what limits you unlock, which characters you do or don't level, and whether you keep Squall around petrified as a dummy target (since he's kinda crap for damage but you're always stuck using him). But overall, the challenge boils down to a hell of a lot of RNG. Especially the final battle. I will say, however, that magic damage is considerably more useful in that challenge than it is in the normal game. Physical damage scales quadratically with Str and linearly with the power of the attack, meaning stronger types of attacks don't improve it all that much but higher Str has a really great effect (and conversely, lower Str really nerfs damage). Magic damage is the other way around (linearly with Mag, quadratically with power of attack), so higher Mag doesn't do all that much (but lower Mag doesn't hurt all that much either), but using a strong attack like some of the girls' late-game limits is practically as good damage as it would have been with junctions. Gravity (percentage of current or max HP) damage is also very useful against any enemies vulnerable to it, since 1/4 current HP is 1/4 current HP regardless of your attacker's stats.
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Jan 4, 2015 11:40
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Can you use Draw and Items without a GF?
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Jan 4, 2015 12:24
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The_Frag_Man posted:Can you use Draw and Items without a GF? No. The only commands available without a GF are Attack and limits. You can still use items outside of battle, however. I actually did a slight variant of the No Junction game last time I played; I allowed myself to junction GFs and to use support abilities (like Str+20%), but nothing else; no additional commands besides Attack/Limit, no Junctioning magic, no refining. Also prevented escaping, using items outside of magazines and the Magical Lamp. Also no Invincible Moon. It was actually pretty fun, and less RNG than a regular No Junction game. Selphie in particular becomes very useful when you realize she's your only way to heal status effects, and your only way to heal outside of inns til late Disc 3.
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Jan 4, 2015 12:28
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The_Frag_Man posted:Can you use Draw and Items without a GF? e;fb
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Jan 4, 2015 12:29
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ApplesandOranges posted:No. The only commands available without a GF are Attack and limits. You can still use items outside of battle, however. See, attack only, all day long sounds incredibly dull. Now not being allowed to junction magic to your stats (and maybe no stat-boosting abilities) sounds like an interesting way to play. That would make your normal attacks kinda suck, and prevent you from having 10x your expected HP to spam limits, so instead you might actually do crazy things like cast spells or use all those commands you can get from GF that end up useless compared to limits limits limits limits every turn. I guess summoning should be disallowed also, because while it's really boring to watch the summon animations every time, they do end up being pretty strong and protecting you from damage at the same time.
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Jan 4, 2015 21:29
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Schwartzcough posted:See, attack only, all day long sounds incredibly dull. Now not being allowed to junction magic to your stats (and maybe no stat-boosting abilities) sounds like an interesting way to play. That would make your normal attacks kinda suck, and prevent you from having 10x your expected HP to spam limits, so instead you might actually do crazy things like cast spells or use all those commands you can get from GF that end up useless compared to limits limits limits limits every turn. I guess summoning should be disallowed also, because while it's really boring to watch the summon animations every time, they do end up being pretty strong and protecting you from damage at the same time. I think I might do this. I don't think I've ever played FF8 where I didn't break the game over my knee. Hell I had Rinoa SOLO THE FINAL BOSS.
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Jan 4, 2015 21:51
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Okay, it makes sense that you need a Junction to use magic, or even Draw magic. It doesn't make sense for Items to be restricted in the same way. If they ever remake this, I hope they change it. (They can make the command unequippable to make room some other way). And if they can add other Default Skills to the same list later, they could use it for foreshadowing.
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Jan 4, 2015 22:48
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Schwartzcough posted:See, attack only, all day long sounds incredibly dull. Now not being allowed to junction magic to your stats (and maybe no stat-boosting abilities) sounds like an interesting way to play. That would make your normal attacks kinda suck, and prevent you from having 10x your expected HP to spam limits, so instead you might actually do crazy things like cast spells or use all those commands you can get from GF that end up useless compared to limits limits limits limits every turn. I guess summoning should be disallowed also, because while it's really boring to watch the summon animations every time, they do end up being pretty strong and protecting you from damage at the same time. I've done a challenge with no magic junctioning and no limit abuse (but anything else goes) and it's quite fun. It's fairly difficult since your stats suck, but you have lots of options. As you mentioned, I ended up actually using virtually everything in the game, the things which are otherwise totally ignored - magic, special commands, GF summoning, and items. In such a challenge, GF summoning honestly isn't as overpowered as you'd think. Since GF summoning can hit weaknesses (e.g., Quetzacotl is lightning elemental) and the raw base damage of most GF's is very similar, it makes enemy weaknesses relevant and means that if you're summoning regularly, you're actually going to use most of them at various times to target specific enemies. Also, while they can protect you from damage, any GF you regularly summon ends up with a cast time so short that it's oddly difficult to successfully get them to tank hits.
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Jan 5, 2015 01:00
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