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kaaj posted:so management tried to force him to take 3 days out of his next year pool of vacation days.  Hope those three days of pay are worth the amount of money and lost productivity involved in finding and training a new sysadmin.
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Jan 4, 2015 17:57
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I don't see how it's acceptable to say "you have 20 vacation days" but for a % of those days to be predetermined. Surely at that point you have 20 days minus whatever you are forced to take. I get that it's probably legal though.
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Jan 4, 2015 18:00
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Ursine Asylum posted:
Seriously. This is such a stupid decision, kudos to the guy for putting his foot down.
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Jan 4, 2015 18:06
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Thanks Ants posted:I don't see how it's acceptable to say "you have 20 vacation days" but for a % of those days to be predetermined. Surely at that point you have 20 days minus whatever you are forced to take. I get that it's probably legal though. Unacceptable but legal, yes, since I don't think that you're required to have any vacation days at all in the US (federally, at least).
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Jan 4, 2015 18:17
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kaaj posted:I mean, he made a good decision here (and he already found a way better position), but it's really sad. Two of us were in this company from the very beginning, him looking after the sysadmin part of it, me writing the application which would utilize the hardware - but being treated like that is not cool at all.
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Jan 4, 2015 18:54
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dennyk posted:If he's salary then Federal law says he has to be paid in full for any week in which he works at all, but since there are no Federal laws (and few if any state laws) governing vacation time or holidays, it's not usually illegal to charge people vacation days for office closings, and there are a lot of companies that do it. It is a pretty lovely thing to do, though (particularly when you're springing it on people at the last minute), and a really stupid policy to lose a key employee over. But hey, the less outstanding PTO on the balance sheet, the better, right? They would still have to opt to use their vacation days. I can't just close next week and charge all my employees 5 days vacation.
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Jan 4, 2015 18:56
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dennyk posted:If he's salary then Federal law says he has to be paid in full for any week in which he works at all, but since there are no Federal laws (and few if any state laws) governing vacation time or holidays, it's not usually illegal to charge people vacation days for office closings, and there are a lot of companies that do it. It is a pretty lovely thing to do, though (particularly when you're springing it on people at the last minute), and a really stupid policy to lose a key employee over. But hey, the less outstanding PTO on the balance sheet, the better, right? Hell, the company where I work charges PTO for holidays.
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Jan 4, 2015 19:07
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Taliesyn posted:Hell, the company where I work charges PTO for holidays. Companies don't have to give holidays off.
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Jan 4, 2015 19:14
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jadeddrifter posted:Companies don't have to give holidays off. My company's in an uproar right now because they went from [10 Holidays + 1 floater + 10 PTO + 5 Sick] to [9 Holidays + 1 floater + 10 PTO + 5 Sick]. Whatever shall we do?
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Jan 4, 2015 19:15
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Lord Dudeguy posted:My company's in an uproar right now because they went from [10 Holidays + 1 floater + 10 PTO + 5 Sick] to [9 Holidays + 1 floater + 10 PTO + 5 Sick]. I get 0 holidays + 0 floater + 0 sick.
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Jan 4, 2015 19:19
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jadeddrifter posted:I get 0 holidays + 0 floater + 0 sick. This too. Being a contractor sucks rear end.
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Jan 4, 2015 19:24
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Collateral Damage posted:You should ask him if they have an opening for a developer at his new place. I've already made my moves and am not planning to stay here longer than required. I think that management was somehow counting on this to happen - there's this new senior sysadmin who joined us few months back, so I understand that they wanted to get rid of the old one somehow... Don't know, either way, their behavior is dumb and irrational. (and I don't blame the new guy (he's sound as gently caress, everybody likes him, myself included, because he's such a nice guy), it's not his fault)
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Jan 4, 2015 19:55
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jadeddrifter posted:Companies don't have to give holidays off. The catch here is they're closed. Everyone has the holidays off, you just need to use your PTO if you want to be paid for the holiday. In fact, I'm pretty sure you are REQUIRED to use your PTO for those holidays. I'm actually a contractor and get holiday pay for them from my agency, making this one of the ultra-rare cases where the contractor has it better than the FTE. (I don't otherwise get PTO, however.)
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Jan 4, 2015 20:38
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Taliesyn posted:The catch here is they're closed. Everyone has the holidays off, you just need to use your PTO if you want to be paid for the holiday. In fact, I'm pretty sure you are REQUIRED to use your PTO for those holidays. There are lots of business that are open on holidays.
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Jan 4, 2015 20:46
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jadeddrifter posted:There are lots of business that are open on holidays. I understand that, but the corner Shell station being open on Thanksgiving has no bearing on whether the company where I work is open for the holiday. The business I am referring to is NOT open on holidays (it's a health insurance company), but expects and requires its salaried personnel to use their PTO to cover those same holidays. Edit: I just realized what you did. I don't know if you're deliberately misconstruing what I said or just confused, but when I said "Everyone has holidays off", I meant everyone working at the company about which I was speaking, not everyone on the planet. Taliesyn fucked around with this message at 21:05 on Jan 4, 2015 |
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Jan 4, 2015 21:01
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Taliesyn posted:I understand that, but the corner Shell station being open on Thanksgiving has no bearing on whether the company where I work is open for the holiday. The business I am referring to is NOT open on holidays (it's a health insurance company), but expects and requires its salaried personnel to use their PTO to cover those same holidays. sorry. I took it as the entire country has the day off. You may want to talk to a lawyer or spend some time in the law library. If you are a salary employee and the business is going to be closed so you can not go to work then I believe that is a paid day off. My wife works for a telecom company and there was a holiday she could use her floting holiday or go into work. She opted to go to work. She was the only one there and basically just played on her phone for 8 hours and got paid because she was there to work but there was nothing to do. If she could not have gone to work (ie. Did not have a key to the building) I think they would have had to pay her for the day.
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Jan 4, 2015 21:26
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jadeddrifter posted:sorry. I took it as the entire country has the day off. I was honestly just tossing it out there as part of the trend about owners making employees use PTO for business closures. I actually am a contractor, not a FTE, and not only am I hourly but I actually get holiday pay (but not PTO). As a contractor rather than an employee, I'm not affected by that policy directly. A few of my co-workers are annoyed, but they're not going to rock the boat - it's hard enough finding work in Flint without asking for trouble.
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Jan 4, 2015 21:30
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Taliesyn posted:I was honestly just tossing it out there as part of the trend about owners making employees use PTO for business closures. I actually am a contractor, not a FTE, and not only am I hourly but I actually get holiday pay (but not PTO). As a contractor rather than an employee, I'm not affected by that policy directly. A few of my co-workers are annoyed, but they're not going to rock the boat - it's hard enough finding work in Flint without asking for trouble. If they are upset about it they may want to talk to a lawyer. Then they know their rights and can decide if they want to something about it or not.
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Jan 4, 2015 21:36
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jadeddrifter posted:If they are upset about it they may want to talk to a lawyer. Then they know their rights and can decide if they want to something about it or not. As I said....
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Jan 4, 2015 21:48
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jadeddrifter posted:If they are upset about it they may want to talk to a lawyer. Then they know their rights and can decide if they want to something about it or not. It's likely a waste of time. There are very few "rights" as far as workers are concerned in most states short of getting fired for being black or something. I don't think there's a single state that requires even a day of vacation time (a few do require some sick days for what it's worth), and being salaried is not going to make a difference. The vacation days you do get are completely subject to company policy and there are no laws or regulations that would prohibit your employer from specifying the days you have to take them.
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Jan 4, 2015 22:34
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This one isn't so bad so long as it's handled reasonably. My place gives me 25 days off, and has a pretty clear clause in the contract that of those 25 days, the 3 days between xmas and new year MUST be taken due to "operational reasons" basically "the majority of folk would take them off anyway and the company can't function". This is made clear from day 1, is automatically deducted from your holiday entitlement so you never even see it from the system and generally doesn't cause a fuss. Springing it on people 2 weeks before xmas though, gently caress that, if they'd said it applied as of next year it would've been fine.
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Jan 4, 2015 23:29
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quote:Springing it on people 2 weeks before xmas though, gently caress that That's the kind of horseshit that I make up for in other ways.
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Jan 5, 2015 00:24
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jadeddrifter posted:You may want to talk to a lawyer or spend some time in the law library. If you are a salary employee and the business is going to be closed so you can not go to work then I believe that is a paid day off. It's a paid day off in that as an exempt employee you legally have to be paid your full weekly salary if you worked at all during that week, but there is no law in the US that I know of that prevents a company from deducting it from your PTO balance (current or future), if they decide that is their policy.
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Jan 5, 2015 05:55
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Lum posted:This one isn't so bad so long as it's handled reasonably. I've always found this rather unfair. If the company isn't open, and you can't go in, you shouldn't be made to take holiday.
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Jan 5, 2015 11:37
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You have the option to not get paid for that day, as the company is closed. My office is closed on weekends, and I don't get paid for that. (But yes companies that shut down for breaks are more hourly geared and hard to reconcile )
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Jan 5, 2015 13:27
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dennyk posted:It's a paid day off in that as an exempt employee you legally have to be paid your full weekly salary if you worked at all during that week, but there is no law in the US that I know of that prevents a company from deducting it from your PTO balance (current or future), if they decide that is their policy. Talk to a lawyer who specializes in labor laws for your state. I quit a job and got an extra $1000 because they did not pay me in time. In California they have 72 hours to get you your final paycheck if you quit. 24 hours if you are fired / laid off.
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Jan 5, 2015 14:14
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jadeddrifter posted:Talk to a lawyer who specializes in labor laws for your state. I quit a job and got an extra $1000 because they did not pay me in time. In California they have 72 hours to get you your final paycheck if you quit. 24 hours if you are fired / laid off. Unless you're a contractor :-(
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Jan 5, 2015 15:14
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Gilok posted:This too. Being a contractor sucks rear end. The few times I was a contract-to-hire guy and in a position to negotiate, I asked for a ridiculous rate to cover the fact that I would be unpaid for holidays/summer Fridays (very nice to leave the office at 2 PM but not very nice to lose 3 paid hours) and would have to cover COBRA. That was then factored into the rate they made an offer at to hire me full time. Wasn't bad making the low $60k range as a desktop support guy in 2008-2009, but Christ Jesus was that an annoyingly entitled user base. I was working for a fashion company - you probably know the name - and while no dress code was wonderful (yes, people came into the office in shorts and flip-flops, and nary a care was made) and the East Village was a fun as hell working environment, people would complain that "their printer" needed toner when another one was five feet away. They had one major area that I can recall - maybe around 50-60 people working in it - with around 20 printers. All were 4250s, all with spare parts in our storage and plenty of paper nearby, all surrounded by morons who didn't want to do anything about said paper when it ran out. At least doctors leave you alone after shouting at you; these people hounded me. It wasn't a forever job, but I screwed up bad. Got canned for tweeting about layoffs. A dumbass move by me, with no references since I'd badmouthed my annoying hipster co-workers on the Mac support team. To be fair, they were douchebags - I've got a fairly complex last name and having to spell it phonetically sucks enough, they basically did high school level BS of repeating it whenever. My only regret is not being able to tell them they were douchebags as I was being sacked directly, but oh well, so it goes. jadeddrifter posted:Talk to a lawyer who specializes in labor laws for your state. I quit a job and got an extra $1000 because they did not pay me in time. In California they have 72 hours to get you your final paycheck if you quit. 24 hours if you are fired / laid off. Nthing this. It never hurts to google your county's Bar Association webpage and check out their lawyer referral service. Either for free or some measley $30ish fee, you talk to an actual lawyer for at least 30 minutes in the field of practice that concerns your issue and get a real answer. Some may be OK with taking cases pro bono or on contingency, depending on the lawyer. Most will be OK with doing the consultation over the phone if you cut them a check, others won't ask for money. It never hurts to try, even if the laws don't explicitly say much.
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Jan 5, 2015 15:37
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kaaj posted:A ticket came in ... but our sysadmin had quit before Christmas. Good for him. He handled that appropriately. I ended the year with 48 hours of unused PTO out of the 60 allotted. Our PTO doesn't roll over to the next year 
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Jan 5, 2015 15:45
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Then you're the idiot not using his vacation time properly. I'll be damned before I not use any of my hard earned PTO.
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Jan 5, 2015 15:48
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GreenNight posted:Then you're the idiot not using his vacation time properly. I'll be damned before I not use any of my hard earned PTO. Everyone here is bitching because the company changed the rules regarding vacation time. We can no longer carry over 150% of our vacation time, instead we can only carry over 75% of it. Some bullshit about encouraging employees to use their time instead of hoarding it because we love our employees and care about their personal lives. I'm not sure where the money saving measure is in that, but I'm sure it's somewhere. Sure it sucks, but they're not actually taking anything away from us. Since I personally like to carry the max amount of vacation around in case there's an emergency, my reaction was "later fuckers , I'm taking a month off".
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Jan 5, 2015 15:53
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GnarlyCharlie4u posted:Good for him. He handled that appropriately. This is a thing I will never understand. Your vacation is already poo poo being so little, but then not using it? 
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Jan 5, 2015 15:53
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We're not allowed to carry over vacation either. I get 3 weeks, so you're better believe I'm going to use all of it.
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Jan 5, 2015 15:58
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We bitch about our low pay where I work, but at least we get 3+ weeks of PTO a year, and get no hassles about taking it.
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Jan 5, 2015 16:01
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Sickening posted:This is a thing I will never understand. Your vacation is already poo poo being so little, but then not using it? I made the mistake(ish) of doing this my last job. Of course they were paying me peanuts so I couldn't even think about using vacation time to actually go anywhere for vacation... At least in CA they're required by law to give you your leftover time as a paycheck, and that paycheck was immediately used on down payments for a non-moldy, not as lovely apartment, so there's that.
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Jan 5, 2015 16:22
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mllaneza posted:Unless you're a contractor :-( Doesn't matter. State law. They have to pay you on time. Each state is different but California is 72 hours if you quit and 24 if you are fired. It may be different if you are a federal employee such as us postal. But if you are a contractor you ate probably working for a company such as Boeing doing work for say the military. Boeing still has to follow state laws.
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Jan 5, 2015 16:24
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Current job is the only one I've ever had that allowed carryover - up to five days. Otherwise I'd have taken great pains to burn it all by the end of the year. I simply don't get not using your vaycay time. Even a staycation is better than losing it.
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Jan 5, 2015 16:44
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I'd rather sit at home with my thumb in my rear end getting paid than sitting at work.
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Jan 5, 2015 16:50
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We don't roll vacation hours into the next year. My boss has a story about the last place she worked where they did roll over everything and when one old guy quit he had roughly half a year worth of hours that they had to pay out.
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Jan 5, 2015 16:56
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We have an unlimited vacation budget at our company. Last year I took 36 days off.
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Jan 5, 2015 16:57
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