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SRM posted:"Your kid's not gonna remember poo poo from their first 2-3 years on the planet, screw juice and unisex onesies, buy plastic/resin space barbies instead!" Speaking of which, I'm trying to turn this Battlefleet Gothic fleet into diaper money (and hospital bills, gently caress.) No juice for me for a while. panascope posted:I'm trying to hold off on buying this book because I'm about to have a baby but this is making it really tempting.   
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Jan 6, 2015 04:53
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SRM posted:"Your kid's not gonna remember poo poo from their first 2-3 years on the planet, screw juice and unisex onesies, buy plastic/resin space barbies instead!" If you'd like, I'm sure panascope can explain to you how you're supposed to use that hot plastic groin.
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Jan 6, 2015 05:03
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Been slaving away on my army since the end of the summer now. Been wanting to share my progress for some time, so I figured I'd post my latest. Keep in mind this is all still pretty new to me, but I feel Calgar and his Honor Guard are already a big step over my first tacticals.   
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Jan 6, 2015 05:20
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BULBASAUR posted:I don't mean to be a dick, but two pages ago you were saying 30k is mostly overpowered bullshit. Now you're saying its going to get shredded and has tons of gaps. Do you play these armies and make lists for them? It's fine if you don't, but my experience is apparently very different from yours. No I wasn't? I said that the AdMech stuff has a ton of things that the other armies don't/can't get access to, and earlier I had said that 30K has plenty of shenanigans just like 40K does (because a bunch of people were talking about how the internal balance of 30K is better), but I never said 30K was overpowered- quite the opposite. The lack of ATSKNF or other morale modifiers, the unwieldy unit sizes (since you pay a 50-100pt "tax" on all base units) and a bunch of other stuff are major constraining factors for how effective the army can be when playing against 40K armies. 30K isn't a bad game at all, so long as you like Space Marines and more Space Marines (and plenty of people do.) As far as Forge World products go, it's about as well-balanced as most of them are. But the idea that it's fundamentally better than 40K in terms of balance I find kind of silly- compare Death Guard army to Alpha Legion and tell me about how fair and internally balanced it is. Or take a look at any of the complete-garbage options in the list (and there are a LOT of them, far more than in the SM/BA/SW 40K codices) that basically exist only as traps for the unwary to fall into. There are lots of good things you can say about 30K- that it's fun, that it has really pretty models, that it harnesses a very fundamental part of the fluff for the game, etc- but I don't think citing balance is a very accurate one.
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Jan 6, 2015 05:32
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I'm currently assembling 3 Leman Russes and before I glue the turrets together, I need to know if Knight Commander Pask can be inserted from the top. The reason I ask is that Ive noticed the Tank commander torso has to be inserted from underneath I dont want to lock myself out from buying Pask at a later date by glueing the turrets now. In the mean time heres some pics of my freshly completed manticore.    And one side by side with my Wyvern 
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Jan 6, 2015 05:47
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Pask can be inserted from above a tank hatch, fortunately: More importantly, that's a totally choice scheme on those tanks, and the execution is beautiful. How did you do the scales? Airbrush and a stencil?
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Jan 6, 2015 07:10
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AbusePuppy posted:No I wasn't? I said that the AdMech stuff has a ton of things that the other armies don't/can't get access to, and earlier I had said that 30K has plenty of shenanigans just like 40K does (because a bunch of people were talking about how the internal balance of 30K is better), but I never said 30K was overpowered- quite the opposite. The lack of ATSKNF or other morale modifiers, the unwieldy unit sizes (since you pay a 50-100pt "tax" on all base units) and a bunch of other stuff are major constraining factors for how effective the army can be when playing against 40K armies. For me internal balance is having good options to have fun semi competitive games. There's a lot of that stuff here. Despite how good some of it is, you can't take it all. You have to think about how you build your army, where you overpay, where you underpay, and how it all works together. It's forcing lots of meaningful and interesting choices. 40k is a well designed game full of well balanced armies... this one isn't unique, with plenty of poo poo or broken overpowered stuff. With 60+ unit options it has more of both than other books. Counting the good ones, though, I can think of nearly a dozen good armies I could play. So while I agree that there are barriers you have to work against, I don't really feel they are huge constraining factors. They are there to force choices and balance the army overall. Will a 40k army without those limits have an easier time? Sure. But they also don't have some of the things we have access to. That kind of restriction doesn't happen often in 40k, and if it does, its usually from one of the better books. That's why I argue that the internal balance is, indeed, good. It does make playing a game against a 40k army fundamentally different, I don't disagree. BULBASAUR fucked around with this message at 07:16 on Jan 6, 2015 |
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Jan 6, 2015 07:14
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SRM posted:Pask can be inserted from above a tank hatch, fortunately: Excellent news. I'm planning to grab Pask when i can warrant buying enough from GW to get free shipping. In the mean time i can chuck these bad boys together and use them. Yep those scales are the Anarchy models stencils. Someone linked a kickstarter for the newer version in one of these threads, but i couldnt wait so i grabbed the old ones. From what i understand the new ones are more flexible, which would be a big help when trying to get a tight seal over all those rivets.
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Jan 6, 2015 08:20
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BULBASAUR posted:For me internal balance is having good options to have fun semi competitive games. There's a lot of that stuff here. Despite how good some of it is, you can't take it all. You have to think about how you build your army, where you overpay, where you underpay, and how it all works together. It's forcing lots of meaningful and interesting choices. I'm not trying to hate on 30K as a whole here- many of these same complaints can be leveled at 40K books as well. But that's exactly my point: 30K isn't really any "better" than 40K in terms of balance or competitiveness, despite many claims to the contrary. It's different, certainly- the presence and absence of various things in the available army lists really changes how the game plays out. But I don't really think it's any better-balanced (because Forge World rarely concerns themselves much with that), which was the claim I was arguing against. quote:40k is a well designed game full of well balanced armies... this one isn't unique, with plenty of poo poo or broken overpowered stuff. With 60+ unit options it has more of both than other books. Counting the good ones, though, I can think of nearly a dozen good armies I could play. So while I agree that there are barriers you have to work against, I don't really feel they are huge constraining factors. They are there to force choices and balance the army overall. Will a 40k army without those limits have an easier time? Sure. But they also don't have some of the things we have access to. I'm not entirely sure what you're going for here. Are you trying to argue that 30K can stand head-to-head with 40K in terms of overall power level and competitiveness, or something else? Because if it's the former, I would have to disagree pretty strongly. 30K does have some unique and powerful stuff, but it also comes with some huge limitations that most 40K armies don't have to deal with: major issues with morale and complete inability to field anything resembling MSU. With the price tag for even the cheapest of squads in 30K coming in at 150pts or more (and that's before even taking a transport), their tactical flexibility is extremely limited because they simply can't bring all that many units to the table in most cases- it's much more efficient for them to bring 20man blobs and that sort of thing, but there are reasons those units don't appear in 40K for the most part.
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Jan 6, 2015 08:55
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If that’s what internal balance means to you, that’s cool. I entirely agree that there’s the usual assortment of ‘too good’ or ‘too bad’ we always get from GW. That’s just not what internal balance means to me. Lets not poo poo up the thread since everyone probably gets where we're both coming from. I 'aint haiting either- it's just that my experience is apparently way different than yours. I’m wondering why. A lot of the things you've mentioned get (or can be) balanced out in one way or another (going back to my point before about making choices). You can absolutely have a mostly fearless army if you want, but you will loose out in other areas. That’s why I wanted to know if you play games and make lists with the rules. I’ve been doing that for a while, and while there are definitely advantages a 40k army has, in my experience it’s not as huge a deal as you make it sound. Except for MSU. "Not MSU" is totally an army wide theme.
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Jan 6, 2015 10:10
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This picture from the latest FW Bulletin sure won't settle anyone's mind who's decided that they'll be rebasing everything they own:  Is it just me or are those terminators on 60mm bases, too?
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Jan 6, 2015 11:35
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krushgroove posted:Is it just me or are those terminators on 60mm bases, too? 50mm I believe, the Contemptor is on a 60mm
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Jan 6, 2015 11:53
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http://zinge.co.uk/index.php?route=product/product&product_id=704 Guess I'll be ordering a Taurox sooner or later then.
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Jan 6, 2015 12:17
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Master Twig posted:Got me to thinking. How have GW prices increased over the last 20 years compared to the cost of a college degree over the same time frame. Next time i'm at the club, i'll take some pictures of our copy of the 1999 reseller's catalogue. we're talking 10 pounds for a unit of orks (they had 16 in the box, i think?)
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Jan 6, 2015 12:28
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Yeah, 3rd ed boxes were 16 orks/eldar, 12 fire warriors or 10 any flavor marines for $23 US. 2nd Ed was $12.5 US for 8. Though in each case, if you wanted the heavy weapons you'd have to buy a $10 blister for 2- 3 models. Loyal marines got to come with a rocket launcher though. When you factor in the new boxes coming with heavy weapons sprues, the large leap in quality over most of the early 90s era sculpts and the greater prevalence of internet sellers the price per model hasn't increased too much. Though the number of models you have to field has sky rocketed for some models.
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Jan 6, 2015 12:57
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Imperial Guard Cadians. Were originally £15 for 20 (iirc, may have been cheaper), now they're £18 for 10. Still the same, sparse sprues but you get half of them for more £.
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Jan 6, 2015 14:51
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Zark the Damned posted:Imperial Guard Cadians. Were originally £15 for 20 (iirc, may have been cheaper), now they're £18 for 10. Still the same, sparse sprues but you get half of them for more £. Precisely. This is a serious issue, as there is no economic reason for halving the number of models besides simple greed. Same with Dire Avengers and some of the other Eldar sculpts. This is the kind of stuff which poisons community relations.
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Jan 6, 2015 15:03
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I absolutely love the Thanatar model, but if I bought one I know I'd end up with an AdMech army. If that were to happen, hypothetically, what book(s) do I need for the rules? Are they largely in one (book 3?) or are they spread throughout the HH books? Also, what would a beginners 1250pt army look like?
Lungboy fucked around with this message at 15:27 on Jan 6, 2015 |
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Jan 6, 2015 15:23
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BULBASAUR posted:A lot of the things you've mentioned get (or can be) balanced out in one way or another (going back to my point before about making choices). You can absolutely have a mostly fearless army if you want, but you will loose out in other areas. That’s why I wanted to know if you play games and make lists with the rules. I’ve been doing that for a while, and while there are definitely advantages a 40k army has, in my experience it’s not as huge a deal as you make it sound. Sure, 30K can do some of those things, but in 40K most armies automatically do those things for little or no additional cost. 30K pays a comparatively huge tax in many respects to get what 40K would consider fairly basic abilities. I obviously haven't played with all (or even close to all) the 30K armies so far, but I like to think I've got a pretty fair grasp on AdMech and a couple varieties of Legion. The fact that there's no real universal meta for 30K makes absolute judgements on things a lot harder to make, of course, but that's a factor in many things. 30K certainly has some advantages over 40K- it gets bodies super-cheaply, it has more than a few "just plain broken" units, it gets some very unique and unusual unit setups/options, etc, but I feel at the end of the day they're not really enough in most cases. Of course, that's assuming that you played it at the same point values 40K is typically played at- if you reverse the paradigm and play things at the 2500+pts 30K seems to be designed for, some of the assumptions fall out very differently. But, as you say, best not to keep clogging the thread with all this. Lungboy posted:I absolutely love the Thanatar model, but if I bought one I know I'd end up with an AdMech army. If that were to happen, hypothetically, what book(s) do I need for the rules? Are they largely in one (book 3?) or are they spread throughout the HH books? Also, what would a beginners 1250pt army look like? HH3 (Extermination) is the book you'll be wanting. It has the most complete listing of AdMech rules and units to date, although there are a small number of things that got omitted. Even more than 40K, 30K wants to be playing well above 1250 so I'm not really sure where you would begin with something like that unless you were doing it as an allied force. They have few enough choices that you could really only have a pretty limited amount of variation in your basic choices, though- fancy HQ/cheap HQ/named character HQ, cheap troop/medium troop/MC troop, the Thanatar in your heavy slot and go from there.
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Jan 6, 2015 15:38
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I'd like to propose something that I participated in for Warmachine a couple of years ago: Play It Painted 2015. This year, I'm going to do my best to only play with painted models and to work through the backlog that I accumulated last year. Other 40k players tend not to have the same disregard for the hobby aspect that WMH communities exhibit, so I'm guessing that many of you are doing this already, but I think it's a worthy goal for us mere mortals. This may mean focusing on Kill Team and Zone Mortalis games for a little while. It may mean Oathing or joining the ICs' Hobby Progress Challenge when it kicks off next month. Or you may decide to set your own goals based on your personal priorities--"paint at least one unit a month," or "in tournaments, painted models only, but anything goes for practice games." But I'm bringing this up because I want to end 2015 with many more painted models than I started with, and I personally have a much easier time achieving a specific goal than a general one. With that in mind, I need to get a Tactical Squad finished and some Scouts done before my next game... Sulecrist fucked around with this message at 17:04 on Jan 6, 2015 |
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Jan 6, 2015 17:01
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Sulecrist posted:I'd like to propose something that I participated in for Warmachine a couple of years ago: Play It Painted 2015.
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Jan 6, 2015 17:10
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Play it Painted is a good resolution. I can't remember the last time I played 40k or WHFB with unpainted guys on my side. See also earlier conversation about Preferred Enemy: Unpainted 
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Jan 6, 2015 17:13
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NTRabbit posted:50mm I believe, the Contemptor is on a 60mm It really is utterly inexcusable that GW haven't put out any official guidance with those new bases. They are treating it as if it were a purely cosmetic choice, and it simply isn't. You can't just 'Unbound' something as fundamental as the base the unit stands on. It's not an army composition choice, it's messing with a fundamental mechanic of the game. And they can't be arsed to even acknowledge that they are doing it.
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Jan 6, 2015 17:14
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Did GW make official comments when Terminators switched to 40mm bases or Dreadnoughts went from square bases to no bases to square bases, then from square bases to 60mm rounds? The new rulebook still has that line about using the base the model was supplied with, I don't see why that would change. I'm assuming that FW bulletin is just a FW staffer's army and he decided to put some of his models on different sized bases.
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Jan 6, 2015 17:17
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TBH as long as you're not doing something absurd like homebrewing a 2 foot wide base for a snotling then 40k is generally fine. WHFB is much stricter regarding base sizes.
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Jan 6, 2015 17:22
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Sulecrist posted:I'd like to propose something that I participated in for Warmachine a couple of years ago: Play It Painted 2015. I'm just gonna have to promise myself to paint more this year. No real opportunities to play 40k nor am I really looking for them anymore. But getting my backlog cleared is always a good thing. Now excuse me while I got and buy more stuff for it. 
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Jan 6, 2015 17:24
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SRM posted:The ICs HPC and the Oath Thread have been fantastic motivators for painting; it gameifies the painting process and makes it all the more rewarding when you actually get stuff done. It's definitely responsible for my output, and even in the time between finishing one oath and when I can declare another I'm getting painting done. I may do the HPC next year, but right now there's too much halfway done stuff across multiple armies. Oathing is tricky for the same reason, especially since most of my best progress has come from sitting down for an hour or two and randomly finishing a color on a random WIP unit rather than doing a few things from start to finish over the course of a month. I have had some success oathing in the past, but it almost always turned into a huge chore with success based more on external factors like my job or my wife's ire than with my actual desire to make progress. Like I said, both of those are great options for other people, though, and I highly recommend them.
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Jan 6, 2015 17:26
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SRM posted:Did GW make official comments when Terminators switched to 40mm bases or Dreadnoughts went from square bases to no bases to square bases, then from square bases to 60mm rounds? The new rulebook still has that line about using the base the model was supplied with, I don't see why that would change. I'm assuming that FW bulletin is just a FW staffer's army and he decided to put some of his models on different sized bases. The only thing regarding bases that GW have said that I can remember is that they cant be on bases bigger than they come with in the box. And yes, that is a staffers army, the jump troops in the back are still on 25's.
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Jan 6, 2015 17:28
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You've got it the wrong way, IIRC. They can't be on bases SMALLER than the bases you were provided.
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Jan 6, 2015 17:30
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Sulecrist posted:Play It Painted 2015 I wish I could commit to things like the Oath Thread, but I'm gone like half the year due to my job. The problem is that I have no issue building models when I'm home, but I need solid motivation to paint things. So, to get my hammy rear end painting with any sort of regularity I'm going to build myself a light box over the next day or two. I can then start inflicting my models on the thread.
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Jan 6, 2015 17:33
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Every time I see heresy World Eaters, I regret not doing them. There's something really visually appealing about the scheme.
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Jan 6, 2015 17:38
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Cooked Auto posted:http://zinge.co.uk/index.php?route=product/product&product_id=704 Not with giant blocks of resin connecting delicate bits to the sprue.  
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Jan 6, 2015 17:44
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wow that is poor planning
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Jan 6, 2015 17:46
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Post 9-11 User posted:Not with giant blocks of resin connecting delicate bits to the sprue. Yeah when you point out that thing it's slightly less appealing, even if all I really wanted was the wheel mounts since the only one I've seen available is a 6 wheeler when I just want it to be a 4 wheeler because I think it fits the design lot better. REAL MUSCLE MILK posted:Every time I see heresy World Eaters, I regret not doing them. There's something really visually appealing about the scheme. I honestly feel the same about Alpha Legion in general, their colour choice is really nice because it stands out a lot. Sulecrist posted:I may do the HPC next year, but right now there's too much halfway done stuff across multiple armies. I've had the urge to HPC as well but then I realized I don't have the funds nor any real need to really build a whole new army for a game I'll never really play and the rest of my stuff is so scattered anyway so the whole idea sorta deflates rather quickly after that.
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Jan 6, 2015 17:52
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AbusePuppy posted:HH3 (Extermination) is the book you'll be wanting. It has the most complete listing of AdMech rules and units to date, although there are a small number of things that got omitted. Even more than 40K, 30K wants to be playing well above 1250 so I'm not really sure where you would begin with something like that unless you were doing it as an allied force. They have few enough choices that you could really only have a pretty limited amount of variation in your basic choices, though- fancy HQ/cheap HQ/named character HQ, cheap troop/medium troop/MC troop, the Thanatar in your heavy slot and go from there. Thanks. I'd be aiming for 1250 as it would be for 30k in 40k and the only time I ever play we max out at 1250. I don't really care about how well the army plays, I just want an army of power crazed cyborgs and automata.
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Jan 6, 2015 17:59
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My only problem with the HPC is that right now I'm kind of working on a lot of small projects at once and not a consistent "army" and I don't plan on starting a new army since I already started my Stormtrooper force. When the 2015 season starts I'll already be halfway done with my Stormtrooper detachment.
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Jan 6, 2015 18:06
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SRM posted:Did GW make official comments when Terminators switched to 40mm bases or Dreadnoughts went from square bases to no bases to square bases, then from square bases to 60mm rounds? The new rulebook still has that line about using the base the model was supplied with, I don't see why that would change. I'm assuming that FW bulletin is just a FW staffer's army and he decided to put some of his models on different sized bases. With termies it made sense that they went to 40mm because that was when the new (at the time) plastic kit came out, and their foot span was more than a 25mm could really handle realistically. Dreads going to 60mm rounds was more a general streamlining because EVERYTHING in 40k uses rounded bases--even bikes eventually got them, though GW had an article way back when on how to make cavalry bases with rounded ends. Those are both obvious examples using common sense. Putting the new BA tacs on 30mm, warriors on 50mm, and carnifexes on oval bases without even so much as a cough about it is just another example of GW's continuing lack of communication to their customers.
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Jan 6, 2015 18:09
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Do tauroxes more closely resemble the ork trukk or the ork battlewagon in profile? Something about those proportions just grips me as orky.
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Jan 6, 2015 18:13
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After GW released the ork codex, I kind of stopped paying attention. Have I missed anything of note?
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Jan 6, 2015 18:18
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Ignite Memories posted:Do tauroxes more closely resemble the ork trukk or the ork battlewagon in profile? Something about those proportions just grips me as orky. They're way closer to the Trukk. Battlewagon is significantly larger. Lungboy posted:Thanks. I'd be aiming for 1250 as it would be for 30k in 40k and the only time I ever play we max out at 1250. I don't really care about how well the army plays, I just want an army of power crazed cyborgs and automata. Hmm. Magos Dominus, an Adsecularis Covenant with the fixin's, a unit of three Thrallax, a unit of two Castellax with a few toys, and a Thanatar leaves you ~400pts to play with. That could get you several more big scary robots, more Thrallax or some Myrmidons for firepower, a crapload more expendable chumps, some angry tractors to shoot lasers at enemy tanks, and/or upgrade your Magos to a Magos Prime and give him some cool toys. If you really wanna push the big robits theme, you could take the named character robit HQ, who is actually pretty scary. Basically, pick any two of those (or pick one and double down on it) and you'd be pretty close to having a 1250 army.
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Jan 6, 2015 18:21
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