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All the Volvo transmissions suck... It goes aw71 (od auto from turbo cars), aw72 (lockup od, 16v and later cars only), m46 (4 speed manual + electronic od), m47 (5 speed), aw30(? Stock NA auto). What are you looking to do? Drive and maintain? If so, a non turbo 5 speed wagon would be sweet. If you want to go and turbo it, get whatever looks nice and install a T5 from a mustang and call it good.
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Dec 25, 2014 05:50
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Yeah, basically. I want to be able to go out onto the windy roads in western MA and have some fun when I go camping though. The stock car seems fairly anemic, but I really prefer the look of the 240 over the 850R/t-5. Right now it's between the 240 and a Saab 900. Bummer about the transmissions, I've had a lot of difficulty finding anything other than the AW30 on craigslist.
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Dec 25, 2014 06:06
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The AW70 is what you'll be getting if you buy a late-model automatic 240. From what I've heard, they're pretty bulletproof and can handle a decent amount of power, but aren't exceptional otherwise.
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Dec 25, 2014 06:15
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Karl Barks posted:Right now it's between the 240 and a Saab 900. What year SAAB? THIS IS IMPORTANT.
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Dec 25, 2014 06:20
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Viggen posted:What year SAAB? THIS IS IMPORTANT. Haha, I was wondering if you'd respond. I actually know a lot more about Saabs than Volvos. Same years, 1991-1993. I'd prefer an SPG, but they're hard to find at a fair price. For instance, this crazy person: http://boston.craigslist.org/gbs/cto/4777068319.html There also doesn't appear to be an equivalent to IPD for Saabs. (Sorry to bring Saabchat into the Volvo thread.) Is there something similiar to Saabnet's classified section for Volvo's? Karl Barks fucked around with this message at 06:29 on Dec 25, 2014 |
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Dec 25, 2014 06:27
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Karl Barks posted:I've mostly been searching for clean, lower mileage 1991-1993 240 wagons. Which transmission is the strongest from that set? Leaning toward the 5 speed manual. Any huge difference between the fuel injectors? I appreciate any help. I think for the most part all of the non-turbo engines after 1986 are all the same B230F engine- a few revisions- but mostly irrelevant unless you plan on strapping a turbocharger on and trying to get 200+ hp. I think in the final year of the 240 they only sold the 'Classic Edition' which I believe came with a B230FX which produced slightly more power (like 130hp instead of 114) You really have to turbocharge these engines for meaningful performance- but the B230FT from a 940 Turbo is a drop in replacement. Alternatively- adding a turbo to a regular B230F isn't particularly hard. I don't think there's much difference in injectors unless you're really cranking the boost. Finally, I think the automatic AW-70 is regarded as a more durable transmission than either the 4 speed M46 or the 5 speed M47. Neither of them do well over 200hp- the M47 notably more fragile than the M46- but I think the AW-70 can handle more power than either. It usually seems people use the AW-71 as a stand-in until they can install a T-5 for higher performance applications. The AW-71 is an improved model which is more robust but it was mostly only found in later 740s/940s. However- it is a identical swap- so if you need a new automatic for your 240- you're better off pulling a transmission from a 940 as they are more plentiful and also better. e: B230FX was Europe only. ultrabay2000 fucked around with this message at 20:20 on Dec 25, 2014 |
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Dec 25, 2014 18:06
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86+ b230f motors are super anemic and somewhat weak small rod mid thrust motors. 90+ got bigger rods and rear thrust bearing again, but the turbo ones usually suffer from bad piston slap (due to low friction piston skirts). 93+ blocks are squirters, which means the turbo ones usually don't slap. NA 93+ blocks make great builders for a +t setup, which is what I'm doing (they're also squirters). All the autos need to be accumulator modded two hold up with higher power levels. The manuals hold up depending on driving style, my m46 has been holding 35psi from a b21ft (because the motor is tired, and I don't drive like a dick).
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Dec 26, 2014 06:27
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Karl Barks posted:Haha, I was wondering if you'd respond. I actually know a lot more about Saabs than Volvos. Same years, 1991-1993. I'd prefer an SPG, but they're hard to find at a fair price. For instance, this crazy person: http://boston.craigslist.org/gbs/cto/4777068319.html There also doesn't appear to be an equivalent to IPD for Saabs. (Sorry to bring Saabchat into the Volvo thread.) Well, now that you mention it.. I'm out of my element in this thread. Just figured I might as well tempt you since you replied. Besides, we're all Swedes here. 
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Dec 26, 2014 19:04
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EvellSnoats posted:v70xc seems to turn over, but won't start. Every once in a while I will hear a poof come from the exhaust, but just won't catch.
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Dec 26, 2014 23:06
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angryrobots posted:So what happened with this? Something silly like the cam sensor unplugged? You're close. Still battling it. The intake cam was 180 degrees off somehow. I think the tutorial I used was mistaken on vvt cars.. Once I fixed that, it turns over better and tries to fire, but won't quite catch. I checked three cylinders and the are all wet with gas. Car went from throwing multiple codes to only one: P3042 camshaft position sensor A circuit low input B1. Figured I would let it sit over night, it definitely flooded. I have to take it back apart to see if the cps was not sitting right or something. I know it was plugged because I never unplugged it when I took off the head. I think I am very close. Timing may still be off or I might have F'd up the CPS when I took it off and cleaned everything. I might go to the pick a pull and see if I can find a CPS, but as spendy as the volvo one is I would bet against finding one. Could the turbo vacuum hoses being crossed up cause anything remotely like this? I can't find a good diagram to try and make sure it is routed correctly and I am missing a connection into the plastic intake pipe. May have to get my mechanic over to the house for a diagnosis. I think this is something relatively easy.
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Dec 26, 2014 23:38
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My cars were both pre vvt, but I can't for the life of me remember how I oriented the cams at tdc when I did the hg, I used a Haynes manual. Sorry. Also, been a while since doing diagnosis, but if I remember right the cam sensor signal is necessary for start up, without it you'll have no ignition. And no a vacuum leak or crossed turbo vacuum line will not prevent start up. My NA wagon ran quite happily with the vacuum tree broken completely off. And 90% of turbo white blocks out there probably have the vacuum lines crossed. angryrobots fucked around with this message at 06:37 on Dec 27, 2014 |
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Dec 27, 2014 06:31
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Has anyone with an 850/X70 ever replaced the steering rack? The entire system in my '98 XC needs an overhaul and I'm trying to decide whether I want to deal with it while it's cold out or just wait until the spring. Seems like the easiest way to do it is to get one of the Harbor Freight engine support bars and drop the whole subframe, but no one seems to have documented the procedure or any shortcuts online.
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Dec 31, 2014 23:02
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I had the nice people at the Volvo house PoleStar my little C30. I've gotten to drive around on it a bit now and it's alright. Not the most overwhelming engine mod I've ever seen- but noticeable amount of extra pull. The community consensus seems to be "huge improvement" .. I'm not sure I'd go that far, but it's nice. 7/10 would probably do again ... probably. I have an automatic and I read that despite it not explicitly changing anything in the auto programming-wise that it'll act a little more aggressive due to .. the algorithms that dictate how it shifts? I dunno, loving science. I'm not finding this to be the case. Downshifts are about where they've always been, 1st and 2nd being torque limited are still fairly yawn inducing, cannot tell that anything happens significantly quicker or differently. I can't tell any major difference on that front. Kind of anticlimactic. As far as raw power goes - it definitely passes vehicles on the highway in a hurry now but in general drive-ability is very similar. I have some super poo poo Conti all-season (probably the cheapest thing they could find to mount on the car) P.O.S tires on it now. I'm strongly considering tossing a set of those Nokian zLine tires on it and see how it behaves with better rubber. I'm a little concerned "European Summer" tires will not take to the actually hot Texas summers, but they're cheap so I'm willing to experiment. After that a nice rear sway and I think I can leave this drat thing alone for a while. .. at least until the warranty expires ... in 2780. Seriously Volvo's have some ridiculously long lived warranties. Anyone else have thoughts on the PoleStar? Am I doing it right?
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Jan 1, 2015 05:53
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zundfolge posted:Has anyone with an 850/X70 ever replaced the steering rack? The entire system in my '98 XC needs an overhaul and I'm trying to decide whether I want to deal with it while it's cold out or just wait until the spring. Seems like the easiest way to do it is to get one of the Harbor Freight engine support bars and drop the whole subframe, but no one seems to have documented the procedure or any shortcuts online. That's basically it. You also don't have to drop the whole subframe, just loosen the front bolts so it hangs down in the back. That's how I've seen it done at my local Volvo shop, I don't know if you even have to loosen lower ball joints that way.
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Jan 2, 2015 08:23
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First time volvo buyer here. Couldn't see anything in the op about the v70 so does anyone know what I should look for and avoid? Got my eye on a clean manual 1999 2.4 XC petrol with 109k miles. He wants 800 gbp at a dealer. I think that's expensive but if the car is as good as I've been reading about then I don't mind the hike for a nice example.
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Jan 2, 2015 20:41
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The older AWD systems are quite bad, and very often not functional at all. Two things to specifically look out for on older AWDs is the angle gear that routes power to the rear wheels and the viscous coupling that adjusts how much the rear wheels slip/drive. Those two are classic points of failure on older AWD Volvos. Applicable all the way up to (and including) 2002, meaning that the first years of the second gen AWD V70s have the same problem. When the angle gear or coupling is broken the rear wheels will have no power whatsoever, meaning it is a heavier FWD car. Here's the official Volvo test for the viscous coupling.  I would just avoid a pre-2002 car if AWD was important to me.
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Jan 2, 2015 21:02
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Was that for me? Thanks if so! However I looked back at the ad because I was sure it wasn't awd, it's actually an XT ..  Sorry mate! Unless the xt is 4wd also, heh Very good post though, thank you for taking the time
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Jan 2, 2015 21:50
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The main points of failure in a fwd v70 usually come from either lack of maintenance, or rust corrosion if that's a problem where you're at. It's an interference engine with a rubber timing belt, so that needs kept up with. Aluminum block and head, so if it overheats it will blow the headgasket which is a PITA. Also, PCV system is a bit different than most cars, maintenance on it is well documented online. But a well maintained one will go about forever.
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Jan 3, 2015 00:46
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Perfect, I'm competent in all those jobs, aside the pcv gubbins but Google shall be my friend. That settles it then I guess, thanks 
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Jan 3, 2015 08:55
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One other note - assuming the v70 cooling system is unchanged from the 850, the electric fan has a two speed relay, the first stage runs thorough a resistor. The first stage is used for most operation, high speed cut on is like 230-240° F. If the resistor goes bad, the fan will not cut on until IMO, too drat late. Maybe it's fine for cold Sweden, but in the hot south of the USA, that heat cycling will pop the headgasket. Found that out the hard way with a very nice turbo wagon, only symptom when I bought it was a misfire trouble code on one cylinder, ran great. Thought I could buy it cheap and fix with tune up. Nope. Should have checked compression. Easiest way to check, fan should cut on immediately with the AC. If I ever get another V70/850, the first drat thing I'll do is bypass that f'n stupid resistor.
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Jan 4, 2015 05:19
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I don't know if any of you frequent the Turbobricks Facebook group, but the "honey badger" Volvo I've worked on a lot and posted pictures of here and did the tune on, put down 365hp and 425ft-lbs. No wonder it scoots!
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Jan 4, 2015 18:19
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Holy hell dude. That's nuts! Great job by the way.
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Jan 4, 2015 18:22
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mafoose posted:I don't know if any of you frequent the Turbobricks Facebook group, but the "honey badger" Volvo I've worked on a lot and posted pictures of here and did the tune on, put down 365hp and 425ft-lbs. Nice!
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Jan 4, 2015 21:39
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Well semi-success on the 99 Volvo V70XC. I got a junk yard camshaft sensor (no charge!!!) and went through the wiring. The car still wouldn't fire, but the voltage was low so I recharged the battery and went on to other projects in the garage and cleaning up. Toward dusk the battery hit 94 percent and I took another stab. IT STARTED!!! But holy poo poo did it make a racket for the 3 seconds it took me to turn it off. It sure sounded a lot like what anxiety ridden me thinks of when he thinks of valves smacking piston heads. No doubt I have the timing screwed up, but I got no idea how to fix it at this point. I just hope I didn't completely screw the pooch on the new head work i did. EvellSnoats fucked around with this message at 01:10 on Jan 5, 2015 |
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Jan 5, 2015 01:02
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Did you keep the valve tappets in an oil bath while they were out? And put them back in the same locations they were originally? I did both of the above, and it still made some racket until the hydraulic lifters got pumped up. I shut it down initially too, then said gently caress it, and it took about 15 seconds to quiet down. angryrobots fucked around with this message at 03:54 on Jan 5, 2015 |
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Jan 5, 2015 01:29
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angryrobots posted:Did you keep the valve tappets in an oil bath while they were out? And put them back in the same locations they were originally? I know I tried to keep both straight. I did not initially put them in an oil bath as I should have. They did soak for about 4 days before installation, but could have gotten dry I suppose. Or I could have screwed up the order. I seem to have screwed up a lot. I may have my son start it so I can take a look. I suppose 15 seconds without being revved up wouldn't be much different than 3 seconds. This is the last time I try to do this type engine work in the car without a proper garage to keep things going. Thanks for the hope! Will keep you guys updated.
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Jan 5, 2015 04:25
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Pull the fuel pump fuse and ignition coil harness* (the control harness not the high tension lead) and turn it over with the starter for a few seconds, a few times. Will help to get a little oil in the head at low rpm, and if the piston is striking a valve, you should hear it. For future reference, one of those organizer/tackle box trays with the movable dividers is cheap and works great to keep the tappets in an oil bath, and organized. *or is yours coil on plug? If so can probably pull the ecu fuse to kill spark. Or just unplug the coils.
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Jan 5, 2015 04:47
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angryrobots posted:Pull the fuel pump fuse and ignition coil harness* (the control harness not the high tension lead) and turn it over with the starter for a few seconds, a few times. Will help to get a little oil in the head at low rpm, and if the piston is striking a valve, you should hear it. It is coil on plug. Appreciate the feed back. I will give it a shot. With the DOA CPS, there were no terrible noises like when it fired up and the cams would have been moving then I guess. I have a poo poo load of those organizers and actually thought about it but the tappets were too tall for the boxes I had on hand to keep them submerged. My new year's resolution is better pre-planning.
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Jan 5, 2015 05:02
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TheJeffers posted:I think LloydDobler suggests setting aside $2k a year if you plan to own one. They are not cheap cars to operate. That seems lower than I expected, to be honest. Thanks for the info, everyone. I think i'll keep my alerts up but not put a lot of effort in to it - really should be saving $ for house.
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Jan 5, 2015 17:49
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KYOON GRIFFEY JR posted:That seems lower than I expected, to be honest. I think that is low if you don't do your own work and real low if you don't use OEM. Wild rear end guess tells me the yearly cost of ownership vs something like my Crown Vic is easily double.
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Jan 5, 2015 19:31
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KYOON GRIFFEY JR posted:That seems lower than I expected, to be honest. The kicker is that at the end of the year you can't spend the $2000. At the end of year 2 you'll have angle gear failure and also need a PCV and Timing belt, so the entire $4000 will still hit you. Keep in mind that USED headlights for that car are $500. New they're over $800. Shocks are $250 each although guys are figuring out ways to bypass the CEL you get if you use aftermarket. The radiator is only $300 but shops mark it up to $500 and then charge $300 to put it in. And the end tanks are made of plastic, and the main mounting point for the entire condenser, intercooler, radiator and fan are molded in to them. Look at it wrong and they crack, necessitating replacement. Still an incredibly rewarding car to drive, the AWD is glued to the road, 300HP is a lot of fun, the seats hug you like your momma used to, and the stock 11 speaker sound system is to die for (8" woofers in the rear deck, mmm). If you find a wagon with a factory 12" subwoofer it's even better.
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Jan 6, 2015 07:42
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LloydDobler posted:The kicker is that at the end of the year you can't spend the $2000. At the end of year 2 you'll have angle gear failure and also need a PCV and Timing belt, so the entire $4000 will still hit you. Very accurate. I will no doubt experience compete and utter transmission failure when I decide to pay a grand for a blown head gasket.
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Jan 7, 2015 02:27
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Okay thanks to angryrobots, I got the engine primed and gave it a go. It starts and runs for a couple of seconds really rough then dies. It won't break 1000 RPM on the tach without bogging and dying. There is no clattering like the first time, which is good. I was able to put a code reader on it and got two codes: P0342 MOD $11 Camshaft position sensor A Circuit low input B1 Confirmed P0014 MOD $11 Exhaust (B) Camshaft position timing – over-advanced (bank 1) Confirmed The exhaust on these cars is VVT. I am thinking I have two problems, a) the timing is off on the exhaust side a tooth or two and b) I am concerned about the wiring from the ecu(?) to the camshaft position sensor. I have a link to how to test the wiring to the CPS, but it is hell getting the probes down to the connector where the CPS connects as it is below the intake manifold. Also, I am not sure of the pinout/wiring color. The instructions I have speak in terms of pins 1,2 and 3, not colors.
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Jan 10, 2015 20:39
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My first course of action would be to verify that the engine is timed and worry about pin out diagrams later. The CPS code could be a symptom of the timing being off. Do your own research on this but I believe you can buy this kit, use the pin to lock the crank in position, release the timing belt tension and remove it, then install the cam locking tool on the backside of the cams which will also set them in time to the crank. At that point you can make sure the intake cam and vvt cam marks line up with the cover marks and unbolt and adjust them as necessary. From what I've found, this kit is necessary with the vvt engines (the one I did was pre vvt and to be honest I bullshitted it with no tool, and now I wonder how close I was). How did you set timing? Did find a picture of the cams, viewed from rear installed at tdc. Exhaust horizontal slot is below centerline and intake is above. Pretty sure all I did, was install them in this orientation, tighten down the upper head, verify their orientation again, and bolt the cam gears on in the middle of the bolt slots (cams are independently adjustable on the pre 99 cars, at one point there was a tool to adjust the cams for max performance). How I tightened the bolts down without the cams moving, I dunno. Probably some dumb hairy poo poo that I got real lucky on. Did I mention I never did find the crank timing mark? I set the crank at tdc by dropping an aluminum rod into cyl 1 and found position by observing the rod. .... Maybe you shouldn't listen to me :P angryrobots fucked around with this message at 04:06 on Jan 11, 2015 |
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Jan 11, 2015 03:48
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Yeah, I have that kit already. Going to tear it all out tomorrow and get it right. Set the crank to top dead center and the camshafts using the tool. I am going to tear into a junkyard engine and see how the intake/exhaust above/below the line is supposed to be set. I used the same pic you found but I suspect it is not the same on the VVT engines for some reason. EvellSnoats fucked around with this message at 04:04 on Jan 11, 2015 |
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Jan 11, 2015 04:00
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Doesn't the cam tool only lock them in that position? If so it's got to be right?
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Jan 11, 2015 04:09
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angryrobots posted:Doesn't the cam tool only lock them in that position? If so it's got to be right? Yes, I think that is correct. I tore it all apart again. When I took off the intake gear, I saw a very small mark 180 degrees off of a stamped "M" that I had assumed was the timing mark. This time when I put it all back together, everything fit perfect on the locking tool. It tries to start, but still no go. I am convinced the cams are oriented correctly and engine is at TDC. Plugs are wet. It will try to fire a little and backfires. As noted above, I found some kind of crappy directions on checking the wiring from the ECU to the sensor. I cannot really follow the instructions, but it appears to me there might not be continuity to the ground and the CPS may not be getting 12V. Is it supposed to get 12 with a 5V signal from the middle pin? Anyone got a better test for the wiring connector? I guess I might pull a connector at the junkyard and splice it in assuming the break would likely be at the connector itself. Before I do that, I would like to try and test continuity from the ECU to the connector wiring that runs to it. What is the best way to pull the ECU to do that?
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Jan 12, 2015 01:21
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I believe on your car, there is a special tool to remove the ecu.
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Jan 12, 2015 04:00
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You can do it with just a screwdriver or really thin piece of metal if you dare. The actual ECU tool costs $70 or so, I made one but you have to finesse it because it's really flimsy. I also made one for a friend and he gave it back because he couldn't finesse it. I have some highly detailed pics of the ecu socket in my deja vu thread here: http://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3503710&userid=0&perpage=40&pagenumber=2#post410512647 LloydDobler fucked around with this message at 09:42 on Jan 12, 2015 |
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Jan 12, 2015 09:35
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My 87 244 got rear ended at slow speed. No real damage aside from the bumper. Are the wagon bumpers the same as the sedan bumpers?
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Jan 14, 2015 14:40
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