|
Sure but it's not about his sentence, it's about the fact people don't like rapists, especially ones who act the way he has. What did someone compare it to before, being a builder's mate or something? There's a pretty big difference between working for some guy and filling a prestigious, celebrated public role with strong ties to a local community, and also being a representative for a business franchise which is paying to be associated with the team. People are going to have less than supportive opinions for all sorts of reasons!
|
#
?
Jan 6, 2015 05:20
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 2, 2024 00:24 |
|
|
JFairfax posted:French, Italian, Spanish, Dutch, French errr Southern French. Danish. Nathan Barley  stickyfngrdboy posted:This is the bollocks I'm talking about. Young lads want to emulate Wayne Rooney, or Daniel Sturridge, or Owen Hargreaves, or Andros Townsend, and this is the important bit: they want to emulate them on the pitch . They don't give a shite what those players do off the pitch. The only thing they want to do is play football and, beyond that, earn loads of money doing it. Slightly  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KhvfWm_jJcc
|
|
#
?
Jan 6, 2015 06:50
|
|
|
If young people are learning that rape isn't a big deal because 'Ched Evans still gets to play football', then that's got gently caress all to do with Evans, and everything to do with how society (and parents/carers) presents sex and sexual violence. It's for parents/carers, schools, and society as a whole to tell young people that sexual violence is unacceptable in the strongest terms. Let this shitbag go back to being an also-ran lower-league footballer.
|
|
#
?
Jan 6, 2015 07:40
|
|
|
Cerv posted:bar with overpriced drinks, mediocre DJs, and staff hired for how they look topless rather than any great competence. love it. Zephro posted:There's a fun vegan restaurant near there where you buy food by weight tho Well, you've both convinced me. 200 yards in both directions, just to be safe.
|
|
#
?
Jan 6, 2015 08:08
|
|
|
baka kaba posted:Sure but it's not about his sentence, it's about the fact people don't like rapists, especially ones who act the way he has. What did someone compare it to before, being a builder's mate or something? There's a pretty big difference between working for some guy and filling a prestigious, celebrated public role with strong ties to a local community, and also being a representative for a business franchise which is paying to be associated with the team. People are going to have less than supportive opinions for all sorts of reasons! It's exactly the same. Builder doesn't want to associate with an unrepentant rapist, so he doesn't hire him. Sponsors and fans don't want to be associated with an unrepentant rapist, so won't support his club. Nobody would argue that a builder should be forced to hire someone he funds detestable
|
|
#
?
Jan 6, 2015 08:25
|
|
|
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/wor...t-protests.html hordes and hordes of Islamaphobeic commenters who think they're being censored
|
|
#
?
Jan 6, 2015 08:43
|
|
|
Strom Cuzewon posted:It's exactly the same. Builder doesn't want to associate with an unrepentant rapist, so he doesn't hire him. Sponsors and fans don't want to be associated with an unrepentant rapist, so won't support his club. Of course not, but if the builder did want to hire him, he would be allowed to.
|
|
#
?
Jan 6, 2015 09:42
|
|
|
Carrier posted:Of course not, but if the builder did want to hire him, he would be allowed to. Allowed to by who? Nobody's passing laws to stop Evans being hired.
|
|
#
?
Jan 6, 2015 10:16
|
|
|
Strom Cuzewon posted:It's exactly the same. Builder doesn't want to associate with an unrepentant rapist, so he doesn't hire him. Sponsors and fans don't want to be associated with an unrepentant rapist, so won't support his club. If you replace "unrepentant rapist" with "Polish person" in your first paragraph, I think you'll find that literally everyone in this thread will argue just that. You're saying that nobody should be forced to hire someone you find detestable. Not that I'm saying you're wrong about Evans being detestable, but you finding someone to be so is not sufficient as sole cause for not employing them in most circumstances.
|
|
#
?
Jan 6, 2015 10:19
|
|
|
Jedit posted:If you replace "unrepentant rapist" with "Polish person" in your first paragraph, I think you'll find that literally everyone in this thread will argue just that. You're saying that nobody should be forced to hire someone you find detestable. Not that I'm saying you're wrong about Evans being detestable, but you finding someone to be so is not sufficient as sole cause for not employing them in most circumstances. I am fairly sure that "unrepentant rapist" cannot be replaced with "polish person" to get some logically equivalent sentence. That's like replacing "car" with "skateboard" in a sentence about traffic laws. No new insight can be gleamed from that bit of verbal gymnastics.
|
|
#
?
Jan 6, 2015 10:23
|
|
|
Jedit posted:If you replace "unrepentant rapist" with "Polish person" in your first paragraph, I think you'll find that literally everyone in this thread will argue just that. You're saying that nobody should be forced to hire someone you find detestable. Not that I'm saying you're wrong about Evans being detestable, but you finding someone to be so is not sufficient as sole cause for not employing them in most circumstances. And if he had spent two years in jail for being a Polish person most people would object. They're totally different things.
|
|
#
?
Jan 6, 2015 10:29
|
|
|
Renaissance Robot posted:For real Bozza, please actually do this, so that at least one of the Green's big popular not completely stupid ideas could have something resembling a plan of action behind it. To expand on this, could we do some sort of letter writing scheme where we pick an MP and a topic and write them letters as some sort of collective. Caroline Lucas is probably the best target but there may be others. Sort of like a Friend of the Court kind of thing.
|
|
#
?
Jan 6, 2015 10:57
|
|
|
Dear Ms Lucas, Allow me to outline for you the many benefits of Full Communism...
|
|
#
?
Jan 6, 2015 11:06
|
|
|
thehustler posted:To expand on this, could we do some sort of letter writing scheme where we pick an MP and a topic and write them letters as some sort of collective. I feel that the "don't touch the poop" rule of the political cartoon thread should be expanded to include all UK politics (unless it's touching them with a noose)
|
|
#
?
Jan 6, 2015 11:26
|
|
|
Evans actually hasn't fully served his sentence. He's out on licence, not fully free.
|
|
#
?
Jan 6, 2015 11:53
|
|
|
StoicFnord posted:I am fairly sure that "unrepentant rapist" cannot be replaced with "polish person" to get some logically equivalent sentence. Evans hasn't even served his sentence in full yet though, and continues to be unrepentant, so those laws do not apply to his case at all.
|
|
#
?
Jan 6, 2015 11:58
|
|
|
Guavanaut posted:There are laws preventing employment discrimination against both ethnic groups and offenders who have not been reconvicted for a certain period though, so I can see where they're coming from. Being unrepentant is irrelevant. The only people keeping his name in the news are the ones signing petitions to stop any potentially interested club signing him. None of this happened when Lee Hughes was released.
|
|
#
?
Jan 6, 2015 12:05
|
|
|
Strom Cuzewon posted:And if he had spent two years in jail for being a Polish person most people would object. They're totally different things. They are. And yet some people find each of them detestable, which is my point. What you were saying is that racists should be allowed to refuse employment to foreigners and blacks and that homophobic people should be able to refuse employment to gays, because they find such people detestable. But that is not enough, and it's not enough for Evans either. If Evans is to be refused employment because of his crimes, there must be a reason beyond thinking he's a poo poo. (Which there is - he's a public face of the club and sponsors and this causes a risk of financial loss for both parties.)
|
|
#
?
Jan 6, 2015 12:06
|
|
|
Jedit posted:They are. And yet some people find each of them detestable, which is my point. What you were saying is that racists should be allowed to refuse employment to foreigners and blacks and that homophobic people should be able to refuse employment to gays, because they find such people detestable. But that is not enough, and it's not enough for Evans either. If Evans is to be refused employment because of his crimes, there must be a reason beyond thinking he's a poo poo. (Which there is - he's a public face of the club and sponsors and this causes a risk of financial loss for both parties.) I just about get what you're saying but you're not very good at saying it. Basically the builder can gently caress off because being a convicted rapist isn't reason enough to deny him the job. A football club may have enough reason based on the whole public face of the club/community bit. stickyfngrdboy posted:The only people keeping his name in the news are the ones signing petitions to stop any potentially interested club signing him. None of this happened when Lee Hughes was released. This poo poo happens all the time though? Plenty of people don't think Argyle should have given Luke McCormick a job.
|
|
#
?
Jan 6, 2015 12:16
|
|
|
mfcrocker posted:This poo poo happens all the time though? Plenty of people don't think Argyle should have given Luke McCormick a job. I don't remember there being this amount of furore for that lad when he was released, but maybe I wasn't paying attention.
|
|
#
?
Jan 6, 2015 12:22
|
|
|
stickyfngrdboy posted:Being unrepentant is irrelevant. I hadn't heard of the Lee Hughes incident, until now, when people quote it as a reason why Chad should be let to be a footballer. Having heard of it, I don't think Lee should be a footballer either.
|
|
#
?
Jan 6, 2015 12:24
|
|
|
stickyfngrdboy posted:I don't remember there being this amount of furore for that lad when he was released, but maybe I wasn't paying attention. They gave Argyle poo poo as recently as June when they promoted him to captain.
|
|
#
?
Jan 6, 2015 12:30
|
|
|
mfcrocker posted:They gave Argyle poo poo as recently as June when they promoted him to captain. Did it get a similar amount of news coverage as Evans?
|
|
#
?
Jan 6, 2015 12:40
|
|
|
stickyfngrdboy posted:Did it get a similar amount of news coverage as Evans? No, but then they didn't put out a video online after being released from prison telling everyone they're innocent and only cheated on their girlfriend. Which is probably why its blown up so much
|
|
#
?
Jan 6, 2015 12:46
|
|
|
TinTower posted:Evans actually hasn't fully served his sentence. He's out on licence, not fully free. This makes no difference to the argument - would you change your mind in 2.5 years ceteris paribus? For most people the argument hinges on the fact that footballers are supposed to be role models, and that having a convicted rapist as a role model isn't the right thing to do. In opposition to that, footballers are generally shits and are pretty god drat awful role models. See: Gerrard and his mates assaulting a single man outside a nightclub, John Terry in racism shocker, Marlon King the convicted sex offender, Lee Hughes, Giggs shagging his wife's sister, numerous drink drivers killing people in accidents, Cantona kicking a fan, Roy Keane intentionally breaking Halands leg, Joey Barton consistently being a poo poo, Jamie Lawrence committing armed robbery, etc.
|
|
#
?
Jan 6, 2015 12:48
|
|
|
StoicFnord posted:I hadn't heard of the Lee Hughes incident, until now, when people quote it as a reason why Chad should be let to be a footballer. Hughes pleaded guilty, apologised to the victims, and did extensive rehabilitative work in prison. At that point I do think that you have to say that he should be allowed to re-enter society and continue as before. Evans is still protesting his innocence and the girl involved is likely to have to change her identity for a second time thanks to the harassment she's suffering at the hands of his friends, something I'm certain he could stop if he was so minded. That's a pretty massive, and really important, difference.
|
|
#
?
Jan 6, 2015 12:50
|
|
|
Jose posted:No, but then they didn't put out a video online after being released from prison telling everyone they're innocent and only cheated on their girlfriend. Which is probably why its blown up so much Yeah I don't like the boy at all, don't get me wrong.
|
|
#
?
Jan 6, 2015 12:51
|
|
|
stickyfngrdboy posted:Yeah I don't like the boy at all, don't get me wrong. Whoever advised him to do that is a loving moron. It would probably have blown over while he was still appealing his sentence otherwise
|
|
#
?
Jan 6, 2015 12:54
|
|
|
Jose posted:No, but then they didn't put out a video online after being released from prison telling everyone they're innocent and only cheated on their girlfriend. Which is probably why its blown up so much Exactly. If Lee Hughes or Luke McCormick had come out of jail claiming that they'd been wronged, that driving drunk and killing someone wasn't "Dangerous Driving" and the only person they'd apologise to was their own mechanic, for damaging their fancy car, there would have been a much greater uproar I imagine. Evans is currently appealing, in effect to have the legal definition of rape changed so that it no longer includes "putting your penis in somebody who hasn't consented to having your penis put in them". Footballers get in trouble, and suspended by their clubs and associations, for expressing less controversial political positions than that. Tragic Peculiar fucked around with this message at 12:59 on Jan 6, 2015 |
|
#
?
Jan 6, 2015 12:57
|
|
|
Tragic Peculiar posted:Evans is currently appealing, in effect to have the legal definition of rape changed so that it no longer includes "putting your penis in somebody who hasn't consented to having your penis put in them". Pardon me? I've definitely missed this bit.
|
|
#
?
Jan 6, 2015 13:01
|
|
|
stickyfngrdboy posted:I don't remember there being this amount of furore for that lad when he was released, but maybe I wasn't paying attention. There wasnt. Because killing 2 children after getting almost blackout drunk and driving home is not that bad according to the general public.
|
|
#
?
Jan 6, 2015 13:20
|
|
|
As far as I understand (I may be wrong) he's not disputing the facts of the case, he's disputing if it constitutes rape . If he wins his appeal, it sets a legal precedent that, in effect, when you drunkenly consent to sex with one person, all that person's colleagues get to have a go on you too.
|
|
#
?
Jan 6, 2015 13:22
|
|
|
Tragic Peculiar posted:As far as I understand (I may be wrong) he's not disputing the facts of the case, he's disputing if it constitutes rape . If he wins his appeal, it sets a legal precedent that, in effect, when you drunkenly consent to sex with one person, all that person's colleagues get to have a go on you too. Thats not quite true is it. He's challenging his conviction on the basis that if his mate wasnt convicted because you could not prove she did not consent to him, how can you prove she did not consent to Evans? And that the jury was unduly influenced by the media and that the prosecutions case was full of errors (it was). I feel i must state that I think hes a scumbag who doesn't deserve to have his conviction overturned, but his appeal is not without merit. If only to get the law tightened up to give a clearer definition in cases like this. serious gaylord fucked around with this message at 13:27 on Jan 6, 2015 |
|
#
?
Jan 6, 2015 13:25
|
|
|
He won't win his appeal, I'm fairly sure. Anyway. Even if he does he isn't a role model.
|
|
#
?
Jan 6, 2015 13:29
|
|
|
Thats my issue with it as well. Before the case no-one outside of a small group of people that supported his club knew his name. Its not like he was playing for United/Arsenal/Liverpool, hes not a role model, hes not looked up to by millions of kids like I've seen quoted in press releases. Hes getting so much flak because its caught the attention of the biggest group of complainers on the internet, which the aforementioned drunk driving and killing people by other footballers didn't.
|
|
#
?
Jan 6, 2015 13:31
|
|
|
serious gaylord posted:I feel i must state that I think hes a scumbag who doesn't deserve to have his conviction overturned, but his appeal is not without merit. If only to get the law tightened up to give a clearer definition in cases like this. The judges he keeps sending it to seem to think his appeal is without merit, certainly. It seems pretty straightforward - it's not beyond doubt that there was a semblance of consent communicated to the first guy, but there certainly wasn't any given to him.
|
|
#
?
Jan 6, 2015 13:32
|
|
|
Rape victims - the biggest group of complainers on the internet.
|
|
#
?
Jan 6, 2015 13:35
|
|
|
serious gaylord posted:There wasnt. Because killing 2 children after getting almost blackout drunk and driving home is not that bad according to the general public. It was one adult. (So that's fine then)
|
|
#
?
Jan 6, 2015 13:36
|
|
|
serious gaylord posted:Thats not quite true is it. Isn't it? I thought she went back to the hotel with Clayton McDonald (so he was acquitted because the jury thought she probably consented to him) and Evans turned up later when she was completely insensible, and just assumed it'd be fine. He's arguing that's not rape. Have I got the wrong end of the stick about something here?
|
|
#
?
Jan 6, 2015 13:36
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 2, 2024 00:24 |
|
|
Wolfsbane posted:Rape victims - the biggest group of complainers on the internet. gently caress off with this poo poo. You know thats not what i'm saying. It's been latched onto by the tumblr feminists. The people that will write 1000 letters over anything. They will never drop this, he could go work as a labourer in a farmers field and that farmer would get thousands of letters saying its a disgrace. goddamnedtwisto posted:It was one adult. The goalkeeper killed 2 kids.
|
|
#
?
Jan 6, 2015 13:37
|
|