|
Then why keep using the term 'unrepentant'?
|
#
?
Jan 6, 2015 14:42
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 9, 2024 08:33 |
|
|
serious gaylord posted:So no business should be associated with anyone thats unrepentent about their crimes then? rape is no worse than other crime and therefore any position you hold regarding unrepentant rapists must also apply to all other unrepentant criminals just so we're clear, thats the stance you're taking here
|
|
#
?
Jan 6, 2015 14:45
|
|
|
Gum posted:rape is no worse than other crime and therefore any position you hold regarding unrepentant rapists must also apply to all other unrepentant criminals Haha is this supposed to be a serious point you're making? Jfc
|
|
#
?
Jan 6, 2015 14:45
|
|
|
Gonzo McFee posted:It's held unreliable because there are biases in favour and against certain people. Chad Evans had all of the biases in his favour what with him being rich, famous, white and a man. Surely a jury would be biased against him? I certainly would be. "Footballer who earns more in a minute than I probably do in a year for kicking a bit of pig about." "Get's all the girls throwing themselves at him." Or from the older generations - "bringing the beautiful game into disrepute". Are they really that popular as individuals? quote:And he was still found guilty for a crime that is notoriously hard to prosecute. This is a myth (pdf, p15) - juries convict more often than they acquit in rape cases and have higher jury conviction rates than other serious offences (attempted murder, manslaughter and GBH).
|
|
#
?
Jan 6, 2015 14:45
|
|
|
serious gaylord posted:I'm not saying its all loving tumblr feminists. I'm saying that his situation was latched onto them from the start and they kicked the ball rolling into the circus that this has become. As others have said, I knew nothing of this case until he came out after being released and said hes innocent and then his girlfriend went on This Morning. I don't feel Tumblr was responsible for those things.
|
|
#
?
Jan 6, 2015 14:46
|
|
|
i was going to say "see i can do it too" but then i realised that that actually is the stance youre taking here
|
|
#
?
Jan 6, 2015 14:46
|
|
|
Mega Comrade posted:As others have said, I knew nothing of this case until he came out after being released and said hes innocent and then his girlfriend went on This Morning. I don't feel Tumblr was responsible for those things. this morning is actually a key player in the sjw conspiracy
|
|
#
?
Jan 6, 2015 14:48
|
|
|
stickyfngrdboy posted:Then why keep using the term 'unrepentant'? Because he is an unrepentant rapist. On top of his villainous actions he has added that he's not the least bit remorseful for those actions. Do you not get why that would bother someone?
|
|
#
?
Jan 6, 2015 14:49
|
|
|
Gum posted:i was going to say "see i can do it too" but then i realised that that actually is the stance youre taking here For what reason should ched Evans not be able to play football at a professional level? Be specific.
|
|
#
?
Jan 6, 2015 14:50
|
|
|
Gonzo McFee posted:Because he is an unrepentant rapist. On top of his villainous actions he has added that he's not the least bit remorseful for those actions. Do you not get why that would bother someone? I don't see the necessity, 'rapist' is sufficient. You're suggesting that saying sorry would somehow affect your opinion of him.
|
|
#
?
Jan 6, 2015 14:51
|
|
|
serious gaylord posted:There was mounting pressure which was getting bigger and bigger in the months leading up to his release that Sheffield United should not let him come back, that it would be a disgrace etc. He made that statement and that was seemingly the end of it. Weird, from my perspective as an average member of the public, that seemed like the start of it! That was when his unrepentant statement was a lead story (including in-studio analysis) on multiple major news broadcasts, y'see Whatever sensationalism the news decided to wring out of it, it became a general story and people tend to care about public figures. Like has been said, it's the clubs' and sponsors' decision here, and if it's all just noise from 'tumblr feminists' then they can safely ignore it! They're businesses, I'm sure they know what will significantly affect them... unless this issue is somehow negatively impacting their image with the wider public 
|
|
#
?
Jan 6, 2015 14:51
|
|
|
stickyfngrdboy posted:For what reason should ched Evans not be able to play football at a professional level? Be specific. because football clubs depend on public support for their funding and the public, rightly, doesnt want to support an unrepentant rapist
|
|
#
?
Jan 6, 2015 14:56
|
|
|
holy gently caress there's a lot of cunts in here today
|
|
#
?
Jan 6, 2015 15:00
|
|
|
Gum posted:because football clubs depend on public support for their funding and the public, rightly, doesnt want to support an unrepentant rapist so the only members of public who have any right to protest his appointment at, say, oldham athletic, are oldham athletic fans or people from the town of oldham? That doesn't make any sense.
|
|
#
?
Jan 6, 2015 15:02
|
|
|
serious gaylord posted:I'm not saying its all loving tumblr feminists. I'm saying that his situation was latched onto them from the start and they kicked the ball rolling into the circus that this has become. You're giving them far too much credit. If there wasn't public outrage and threats to withdraw sponsorship from Utd nobody would care what tumblr feminists had to say like usual. They didn't get the ball rolling the media and the sponsors did.
|
|
#
?
Jan 6, 2015 15:05
|
|
|
Pantsuit posted:You're giving them far too much credit. If there wasn't public outrage and threats to withdraw sponsorship from Utd nobody would care what tumblr feminists had to say like usual. They didn't get the ball rolling the media and the sponsors did. And who do you think flooded the sponsors with complaints until they made a statement?
|
|
#
?
Jan 6, 2015 15:06
|
|
|
stickyfngrdboy posted:so the only members of public who have any right to protest his appointment at, say, oldham athletic, are oldham athletic fans or people from the town of oldham? That doesn't make any sense. not at all. anyone is allowed to have the opinion that it is wrong for the club to appoint him and its fine for them to share that opinion
|
|
#
?
Jan 6, 2015 15:07
|
|
|
serious gaylord posted:And who do you think flooded the sponsors with complaints until they made a statement? im going to guess it was the british public, but feel free to prove me wrong
|
|
#
?
Jan 6, 2015 15:07
|
|
|
stickyfngrdboy posted:I don't see the necessity, 'rapist' is sufficient. You're suggesting that saying sorry would somehow affect your opinion of him. for what it's worth, it would affect my opinion of him. Were he to show remorse for his actions, and maybe make some kind of symbolic act of contrition like participating in a campaign against sexual assault, then I'd say yes, he should be allowed to play again.
|
|
#
?
Jan 6, 2015 15:08
|
|
|
mfcrocker posted:holy gently caress there's a lot of cunts in here today Let me, as a man, tell you about this crime that disproportionately affects women.
|
|
#
?
Jan 6, 2015 15:09
|
|
|
goddamnedtwisto posted:for what it's worth, it would affect my opinion of him. Were he to show remorse for his actions, and maybe make some kind of symbolic act of contrition like participating in a campaign against sexual assault, then I'd say yes, he should be allowed to play again. He cant really be repentent while his appeal is ongoing can he? He will never make an apology over this because he fundamentally believes he did nothing wrong. TinTower posted:Let me, as a man, tell you about this crime that disproportionately affects women. Please link to the posts where anyone has commented on the crime in any way aside from calling it reprehensible.
|
|
#
?
Jan 6, 2015 15:09
|
|
|
There's a couple of inconsistencies here. It's irrelevant that he hasn't finished his sentence, as everyone making a point of that will not change their minds once he has finished it. It's also irrelevant that he's unrepentant, because (most) people wouldn't change their minds if he did repent and say sorry. So what we have is a bunch of people who say 'rapist shouldn't be allowed to play football'. Which is fine as an opinion, but it's not the law and we aren't governed by mob rule (because the British public are stupid). The reason for this? "Football players are role models" is the argument I hear the most. Which is bullshit, as football players are generally *the worst* role models as my post before shows. tentish klown posted:See: Gerrard and his mates assaulting a single man outside a nightclub, John Terry in racism shocker, Marlon King the convicted sex offender, Lee Hughes, Giggs shagging his wife's sister, numerous drink drivers killing people in accidents, Cantona kicking a fan, Roy Keane intentionally breaking Halands leg, Joey Barton consistently being a poo poo, Jamie Lawrence committing armed robbery, etc.
|
|
#
?
Jan 6, 2015 15:10
|
|
|
serious gaylord posted:He cant really be repentent while his appeal is ongoing can he? He will never make an apology over this because he fundamentally believes he did nothing wrong. which is what makes him a bad person?
|
|
#
?
Jan 6, 2015 15:10
|
|
|
TinTower posted:Let me, as a man, tell you about this crime that disproportionately affects women. Here are the reasons why a jury was wrong to find him guilty beyond reasonable doubt of a crime that's notoriously hard to prosectue ~~faaaaaaaaarts~~
|
|
#
?
Jan 6, 2015 15:11
|
|
|
just out of interest, would you feel the same way if the bbc rehired rolf harris?
|
|
#
?
Jan 6, 2015 15:12
|
|
|
Gum posted:which is what makes him a bad person? Just for the sake of discussion, suppose she did consent to have sex with him (aka he is telling the truth). Is he still a bad person?
|
|
#
?
Jan 6, 2015 15:12
|
|
|
Gum posted:which is what makes him a bad person? If he's appealing and the powers that be are reviewing the case for a miscarriage of justice, saying 'sorry' would cause his appeal to fail (they have done now anyway, but the damage has been done) and they're not going to bother reviewing the case. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Innocent_prisoner%27s_dilemma
|
|
#
?
Jan 6, 2015 15:13
|
|
|
Prince John posted:Just for the sake of discussion, suppose she did consent to have sex with him (aka he is telling the truth). obviously not, but that isnt what happened here
|
|
#
?
Jan 6, 2015 15:13
|
|
|
serious gaylord posted:So no business should be associated with anyone thats unrepentent about their crimes then? I'm gonna single this out because it's a nice demonstration of the way some people are framing this argument that winds me up. What is this "should"? Are we making a moral claim? Are we wanting laws against this? Who is or isn't giving clubs permission to hire him? I would not support a club that hires rapists, especially the unrepentant kind, and parades them about publically. If I was a footballer I would not play with or against rapists, I do not want rapists in my life. That is my right, to choose who to associate myself with. If the clubs choose not to hire him, either through moral objection, or a fear that righteous pricks like me will not support a club that hires him, then that is also their decision. The talk about "should he play" or "should clubs be allowed to hire him" is irrelevant in my mind.
|
|
#
?
Jan 6, 2015 15:14
|
|
|
Gum posted:obviously not, but that isnt what happened here All you have to back this up is that a) she doesn't remember what happened, b) she was really drunk, and c) the jury decided that she was too drunk to consent.
|
|
#
?
Jan 6, 2015 15:15
|
|
|
tentish klown posted:If he's appealing and the powers that be are reviewing the case for a miscarriage of justice, saying 'sorry' would cause his appeal to fail (they have done now anyway, but the damage has been done) and they're not going to bother reviewing the case. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Innocent_prisoner%27s_dilemma he cant apologise because hes trying to weasel his way out of punishment? you're right, it was totally wrong for me to call him a bad person
|
|
#
?
Jan 6, 2015 15:15
|
|
|
Prince John posted:Just for the sake of discussion, suppose she did consent to have sex with him (aka he is telling the truth). Considering at the time of the rape he was also cheating on his girlfriend so yeah, still a dick.
|
|
#
?
Jan 6, 2015 15:16
|
|
|
Gum posted:just out of interest, would you feel the same way if the bbc rehired rolf harris? I wouldn't care what they did, but that's different anyway because we all pay for the BBC. We don't pay towards the upkeep of oldham athletic.
|
|
#
?
Jan 6, 2015 15:16
|
|
|
Out of curiosity, what would the likely reaction be if Evans turned round and said "gently caress it, if you keep stopping me from getting a job I'll just go on benefits and you can pay for me"? (Yes, I know this will never happen)
|
|
#
?
Jan 6, 2015 15:17
|
|
|
tentish klown posted:c) the jury decided that she was too drunk to consent. Yes, this is a legal definition of rape, the crime which convicted rapist Chad Evans has been convicted of.
|
|
#
?
Jan 6, 2015 15:18
|
|
|
tentish klown posted:All you have to back this up is that a) she doesn't remember what happened, b) she was really drunk, and c) the jury decided that she was too drunk to consent. "All you have to back this up is that he had sex with her while she was too drunk to consent". Brilliant. Top marks.
|
|
#
?
Jan 6, 2015 15:19
|
|
|
Prince John posted:Just for the sake of discussion, suppose she did consent to have sex with him (aka he is telling the truth). Yes. The idea that there are normal (as in not sociopathic) men who actually get texts off their friends saying they've found a bird then hightail round to have sex with them too is mind boggling and horrible. Do people actually enjoy sex like that? I know it's not a crime but it is treating people like sex toys and I fully support social shaming against it. Edit: And the friends filming it from outside, is that not illegal? Ugh. hookerbot 5000 fucked around with this message at 15:26 on Jan 6, 2015 |
|
#
?
Jan 6, 2015 15:19
|
|
|
Gum posted:he cant apologise because hes trying to weasel his way out of punishment? you're right, it was totally wrong for me to call him a bad person Allow me to introduce you to all the people serving sentences far in excess of their allocated time because they maintain their innocence and are thus ineligible for parole. Miscarriages of justice happen all the time and, indeed, this may be one. Wait and see what the panel says. tentish klown posted:All you have to back this up is that a) she doesn't remember what happened, b) she was really drunk, and c) the jury decided that she was too drunk to consent. This is the nub of it. She never made a complaint of rape to the police. According to the supporter's website (so take it for what it's worth) there is no forensic evidence linking either men to the 'sexual act'. They were charged entirely based on their own accounts of what happened. It is within the realms of possibility that she may have consented at the time.
|
|
#
?
Jan 6, 2015 15:19
|
|
|
Prince John posted:According to the supporter's website (so take it for what it's worth) there is no forensic evidence linking either men to the 'sexual act'. They were charged entirely based on their own accounts of what happened. so what are you arguing here? that they might have lied about having sex with her?
|
|
#
?
Jan 6, 2015 15:21
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 9, 2024 08:33 |
|
|
mfcrocker posted:Here are the reasons why a jury was wrong to find him guilty beyond reasonable doubt of a crime that's notoriously hard to prosectue Do you have anything to contribute or are you just going to shitpost? Prince John posted:There's some confusion here about the legal processes that are ongoing. He appealed the conviction and that appeal was rejected by the Court of Appeal. An appeal is necessarily very limited in that you can only appeal on mistakes of law in the original trial. The only possible way this gets overturned is on a technical matter. As to whether the judge was incorrect when he told the jurys to bring different verdicts etc. It is in everyones interest that this case is reviewed as to set a precedent that can be cited later.
|
|
#
?
Jan 6, 2015 15:21
|
|