Tomn posted:What exactly would the tactical advantage of the Segway Brigade be compared to just running around? Less wear and tear on the boots.
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Jan 6, 2015 23:41
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bewbies posted:There's actually a lot of interest in sort of....mobility/strength enhancers for infantry types. A Segway is maybe kind of a primitive form of this. I have no idea what the capabilities are of a Segway but if it can move me 30km cross country without me having to use my legs, or if it can carry my kit while I walk alongside.....
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Jan 6, 2015 23:43
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What if you made BigDogs pull Segways?
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Jan 6, 2015 23:52
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Tomn posted:What exactly would the tactical advantage of the Segway Brigade be compared to just running around?
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Jan 6, 2015 23:55
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Rincewind posted:I feel like coming up with punishments worse than just having to continue to live in a trench as a WWI soldier must have been pretty tricky. I hope you don't think this was a joke, because quite literally in early 1915 the Army had to adopt a policy that all sentences of imprisonment were to be suspended for the duration of the war, and the offenders sent back to their unit, because too many soldiers were deliberately committing offences that they knew were serious enough to result in a year or few of imprisonment, by which time the war would hopefully be over. Being in a military prison on bread and water with hard labour was apparently better than being in the trenches... Trin Tragula fucked around with this message at 20:56 on Jan 12, 2015 |
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Jan 7, 2015 00:06
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Hogge Wild posted:What if you made BigDogs pull Segways? The glorious return of chariots.
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Jan 7, 2015 00:12
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Rent-A-Cop posted:The primary missions of the Chinese army are forming human walls to prevent protestors from torching government offices and propaganda. Tactical relevance is much less important than looking awesome. I guess you can't torch government offices when you're too busy being doubled over in laughter.
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Jan 7, 2015 00:21
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bewbies posted:There's actually a lot of interest in sort of....mobility/strength enhancers for infantry types. A Segway is maybe kind of a primitive form of this. I have no idea what the capabilities are of a Segway but if it can move me 30km cross country without me having to use my legs, or if it can carry my kit while I walk alongside..... You know what else can move you 30km cross country without having to use your legs?  You don't even need to charge it daily!
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Jan 7, 2015 03:20
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Tomn posted:I guess you can't torch government offices when you're too busy being doubled over in laughter. Slightly related!
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Jan 7, 2015 03:27
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Nenonen posted:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gCi0gC6NM_Q Serious question: how is this better than a actual mule? Both need fuel, but the mule can scavenge its in many places, and worst comes to worst you can't eat a robot.
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Jan 7, 2015 06:33
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Cyrano4747 posted:Serious question: how is this better than a actual mule? They handle bullets differently.
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Jan 7, 2015 06:38
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If you get lucky the Mule gets better eventually on its own; if you don't have a mechanic on hand, the robot is hosed.
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Jan 7, 2015 06:51
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Cyrano4747 posted:Serious question: how is this better than a actual mule? Mules don't cost millions of dollars to develop and maintain and are therefore unamerican.
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Jan 7, 2015 06:57
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Cyrano4747 posted:Serious question: how is this better than a actual mule? Also you can't ship mules 20 to a container. Well, you can, but the results aren't pretty. Edit: Robots don't wander off, they don't bolt, they don't bite, they don't get sick, nobody has to watch them, and they don't suffer when they get shot. Rent-A-Cop fucked around with this message at 07:02 on Jan 7, 2015 |
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Jan 7, 2015 06:59
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Cyrano4747 posted:Serious question: how is this better than a actual mule? The main thing I can think of off the top of my head is that mules have a brain and enough imagination to be afraid and stubborn. A mule could behave unpredictably if bought into battle and could run off, or freeze up, or do any number of things you'd rather not have him do, or refuse to do any number of things you'd want him to do. A robot on the other hand would be absolutely fearless and will do only what you want it to do. Relatedly, I imagine it's harder to empathize with a robot than a mule, which could cause fewer morale issues if the robot is disabled or if the handler needs to be separated from his charge. That said, though, I imagine the benefits of having a robot that does exactly what you want it to do and nothing else will be at least partially offset by the disadvantages of having a robot that does exactly what you told it to do...and nothing else. I'm also not sure if it'd be worth the money to develop, either. Still, there it is. Also I guess if the technology improves you could hypothetically upgrade a robot to carry heavier weights and be pretty protected, while the Mk 1 mule is pretty much all you'll ever get.
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Jan 7, 2015 07:06
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Cyrano4747 posted:Serious question: how is this better than a actual mule? You can't expect a mule to follow you into combat, and you can't strap an automatic grenade launcher to a mule and remotely control it. Also DARPA's LS3 can already carry twice the weight limit of a real mule (400 lbs), and has a much smaller logistics requirement.
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Jan 7, 2015 07:21
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Plus it doesn't poop! Small victories are important people.
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Jan 7, 2015 07:36
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Yes, it's like a lava lamp.
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Kaal posted:You can't expect a mule to follow you into combat, and you can't strap an automatic grenade launcher to a mule and remotely control it. Also DARPA's LS3 can already carry twice the weight limit of a real mule (400 lbs), and has a much smaller logistics requirement. Animals need to eat constantly. Every single day, whether they do anything or not. Big animals need to eat a lot just to maintain bodymass. A horse needs 15,000 calories a day just to not starve. Double that if you want it to work. Pasture has something like 200 calories per pound. You can do the math yourself there, it's a shitload of grass. Big animals need a lot of room and a lot of care. They have to be able to exercise and move around or they get sick and die. They need to do this all the time, even when they aren't working. At night they need a covered place to sleep. Someone has to take care of them because they are huge and stupid and get into trouble and get eaten by bears and bit by snakes and people try to steal them. If you want to move them they need specially outfitted trucks, planes or ships to get them around. On the other hand that robot needs about gallon of gas a day. It only needs the gas if you want it to go somewhere, otherwise it doesn't need anything. It needs someone to look after it a few minutes a day, a major overhaul maybe every month, or whenever it breaks down. When it isn't working, it can be safely locked in a shipping container with 20 of its friends and ignored until its needed. When it needs to be somewhere far away it can be stuffed in any old box and shipped.
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Jan 7, 2015 07:40
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Cyrano4747 posted:Serious question: how is this better than a actual mule? It's better than a mule in some important categories. For one, it can carry a lot more, so you can have 1 BigDog carrying a load it might take 4 or 5 mules to carry. Secondly, in a lot of cases, it might be easier to keep supplied. Sure, BigDog needs gas; but mules need fodder. Sure, mules can forage. However, there's no guarantee grazing and water will be available. If you're fighting in desert or arid mountains, 20 or 30 mules will pretty quickly gobble up the forage in the available area. That's fine if you're constantly moving to new grazing sites every day, but that's not so great if you're in a FOB or a static fighting position (in which case, letting your animals out of your perimeter might not even be an option). Plus, there's the issue of water. Pack animals are extremely thirsty. Camels can go a pretty long time without water, but horses and mules need lots of water on a near-daily basis. Bottom line, there's a very good chance you'll need to bring water and fodder to feed your pack mules to supplement/supplant any local grazing and water. And a calorie of gas is a lot smaller, lighter, and easier to carry than a calorie of mule fodder and the gallons of water a mule train consumes, even if BigDog will also needs spare parts from time to time. Most draft and pack animals are gigantic, panicky assholes. It takes a certain degree of knowledge and skill to handle pack animals. Not to mention the fact animals need veterinary care. You can give BigDogs to a normal light infantry unit and they should be able to successfully use them without too much training (although it might be a good idea to attach one or two maintainers to keep them running). You really can't do the same thing with mules. Handing 200 mules to an unprepared infantry company would be a complete shitshow. e: that's not so say military pack animals are going to be totally replaced by robots. If I was leading a Special Forces A-Team in Afghanistan, I'd take donkeys over a first-generation robot. In that situation, there's a good chance I can buy fresh animals from locals and over-stressing local fodder isn't a huge concern. Bacarruda fucked around with this message at 08:15 on Jan 7, 2015 |
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Jan 7, 2015 07:48
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Rent-A-Cop posted:To expand on logistics: Big animals need a lot of room and a lot of care. They have to be able to exercise and move around or they get sick and die. They need to do this all the time, even when they aren't working. At night they need a covered place to sleep. Someone has to take care of them because they are huge and stupid and get into trouble and get eaten by bears and bit by snakes and people try to steal them. If you want to move them they need specially outfitted trucks, planes or ships to get them around. Bacarruda posted:Most draft and pack animals are gigantic, panicky assholes. It takes a certain degree of knowledge and skill to handle pack animals. Not to mention the fact animals need veterinary care. You can give BigDogs to a normal light infantry unit and they should be able to successfully use them without too much training (although it might be a good idea to attach one or two maintainers to keep them running). You really can't do the same thing with mules. Handing 200 mules to an unprepared infantry company would be a complete shitshow. Totally. And while it's true that robotics have all sorts of requirements that can be difficult to find in the field - gasoline, machine oil, spare parts, etc. - the truth is that modern militaries already bring lots of those sorts of things so they end up not being a significant added burden. Whereas for Napoleon's Grand Armée, which had invested in a large support structure for their military animals, it would be much simpler to just add another couple of mules to the packstring. Even without considering the added capabilities that a machine brings with it (a mule cannot be airdropped, submerged, armored, detonated, stacked, repaired, or upgraded, for example) it is the issue of logistics that led to modern militaries discontinuing their use of animals back in WWI and WWII. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LIaXEMOhihw https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=arIJm2lAfR8 Kaal fucked around with this message at 08:14 on Jan 7, 2015 |
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Jan 7, 2015 07:58
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You just know you're robot is going to break down once you're halfway through your patrol though
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Jan 7, 2015 08:47
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Wouldn't the fact that it sounds like a giant lawnmower pose a pretty big obstacle to bringing it to combat situations
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Jan 7, 2015 08:53
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With the unnatural way that the BigDog walks, it'd sooner start sympathizing with the enemy that shoots it.
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Jan 7, 2015 08:58
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steinrokkan posted:Wouldn't the fact that it sounds like a giant lawnmower pose a pretty big obstacle to bringing it to combat situations The noise of the two-stroke engine has been a constant complaint for years, and I'm not sure why Boston Dynamics hasn't installed a better muffler by now. It's probably a weight issue. I know that they've talked about wanting to switch the machine over to batteries or fuel cells, so perhaps they simply aren't worrying about the issue until the engine system gets finalized.
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Jan 7, 2015 09:08
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steinrokkan posted:Wouldn't the fact that it sounds like a giant lawnmower pose a pretty big obstacle to bringing it to combat situations It's just a prototype/proof-of-concept vehicle, so I'd imagine the designers' initial priority was getting the drat thing to work. There's some pretty quiet small gas engines on the market these days. Between that and some soundproofing, they could probably make it quite a bit quieter. But if they don't fix the noise issue...
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Jan 7, 2015 09:20
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And conversely, one should remember that modern mechanized warfare is pretty routinely loud environment. The LS3 currently runs at about 70 decibels, which is about the same as a vacuum cleaner. That's certainly quieter than a Humvee (85 dB) or a Blackhawk (104 dB). Of course trucks and helicopters have the speed required to largely obviate the drawback of the noise - by the time you hear them, they're already on top of you. But even if the LS3 ultimately needs to be left behind on stealth missions, it could still play a significant role in carrying material to and from a preposition rally point.
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Jan 7, 2015 09:31
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steinrokkan posted:Wouldn't the fact that it sounds like a giant lawnmower pose a pretty big obstacle to bringing it to combat situations Not if the other guys have giant diesel engines and explosives happening all about.
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Jan 7, 2015 11:21
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Rent-A-Cop posted:To expand on logistics: Also, the vast majority of your time as a common soldier, infantry or cav, will be spent haying, squad by squad. quote:they are huge and stupid and get into trouble HEY GUNS fucked around with this message at 12:42 on Jan 7, 2015 |
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Jan 7, 2015 11:44
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steinrokkan posted:Wouldn't the fact that it sounds like a giant lawnmower pose a pretty big obstacle to bringing it to combat situations I'm pretty  that I live in a country where BigDog is absolutely infeasible, thanks to all the swamps and the winter.
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Jan 7, 2015 12:11
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Siivola posted:The way I learned it, light infantry doesn't bring their baggage into combat situations anyway. I mean, you can't exactly fight with a 100-litre frame pack on you anyway, you're going to make camp and leave all the crap you don't need in there. Hey, so you live in one country where the US *might not invade* in the coming decades!
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Jan 7, 2015 12:33
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Come to think of it, there's another reason why a robot would be superior to a mule: Ergonomics. A mule is a mule and you'll need to figure out how to load it in a way that accommodates the fact that it is a mule. A robot, however, can be reworked and designed according to specifications to make it easier and more convenient to load and unload. Edit: I guess what it comes down to in the end is that mules are designed to be mules and will never be anything except mules, whereas robots can be designed to be exactly what you want it and need it to be. Tomn fucked around with this message at 13:37 on Jan 7, 2015 |
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Jan 7, 2015 13:35
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You put a bullet into the middle of a robot, and after you lop out the bits that have been damaged, you can slot in new components. You put a bullet in a horse and it screams and bleeds out and dies and all the king's men will never be able to put it together again.
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Jan 7, 2015 13:40
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Should have put that money into genetic super mules with a built-in auto cannon.
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Jan 7, 2015 13:52
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We clearly need to recruit talking mules... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Francis_Joins_the_WACS
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Jan 7, 2015 14:01
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Not only are robots easier to maintain, but they're easier to produce in bulk as well, especially now that there isn't a large pool of civilian mule delivery teams to call on in case of war.
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Jan 7, 2015 14:43
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Phobophilia posted:You put a bullet into the middle of a robot, and after you lop out the bits that have been damaged, you can slot in new components. You put a bullet in a horse and it screams and bleeds out and dies and all the king's men will never be able to put it together again. They can eat the fucker at least after battle. Victory horse stew!
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Jan 7, 2015 15:19
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PittTheElder posted:Plus it doesn't poop! Small victories are important people.
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Jan 7, 2015 15:20
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GhostofJohnMuir posted:Not only are robots easier to maintain, but they're easier to produce in bulk as well, especially now that there isn't a large pool of civilian mule delivery teams to call on in case of war. Why are there no Senate hearings about this? We can't allow a mule gap!
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Jan 7, 2015 15:29
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JcDent posted:With the unnatural way that the BigDog walks, it'd sooner start sympathizing with the enemy that shoots it. I had a similar thought, that thing is both terrifying and totally awesome. oohhboy posted:Should have put that money into genetic super mules with a built-in auto cannon. I heard you guys had a practical well thought out piece of military hardware! Sounds awesome and fantastic! Good job soldiers, now then, we just want you to add on a few tiny modifications... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aXQ2lO3ieBA Raenir Salazar fucked around with this message at 15:45 on Jan 7, 2015 |
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Jan 7, 2015 15:42
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ArchangeI posted:Why are there no Senate hearings about this? We can't allow a mule gap! I bet there are top secret CIA mule breeder cells, ready to crank out an army of mules at a moment's notice.
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Jan 7, 2015 15:57
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