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People I didn't known existed a day ago: I'm loving happy these assholes are dead, look at the cartoons they made!!!! Some posters are literally saying this, hiding only behind a thin layer of semantics. steinrokkan fucked around with this message at 01:02 on Jan 8, 2015 |
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Jan 8, 2015 01:00
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Broken Cog posted:
Then it's a parasite, it's opportunism. It's hijacking people's emotions to do nothing but bring attention to itself. You're talking nonsense. But so am I for that matter because it doesn't justify murder so I'm exiting this conversation.
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Jan 8, 2015 01:00
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Nenonen posted:Victim blaming is 'criticism', now? I'm not blaming him! I'm jumping into a conversation about if it's right to criticize his work and I'm saying that it is. He made anti-Muslim cartoons and was then killed by Muslim extremests. He did not deserve to be killed no matter what he wrote, but could it not at least be a factor? He was targeted, this wasn't random, but I'm not even saying he shouldn't have made those cartoons. I do not blame him in any way, so where is my victim blaming?
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Jan 8, 2015 01:00
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steinrokkan posted:People I didn't known existed a day ago: I'm loving happy these assholes are dead, look at the cartoons they made!!!! Can you only hate someone you have known for a long time? Is there a chart available somewhere?
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Jan 8, 2015 01:03
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CharlestheHammer posted:Can you only hate someone you have known for a long time? It's despicable to judge people based on five minutes of superficial coverage, yes. Especially when it serves to relativize the significance of their death.
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Jan 8, 2015 01:05
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I was wondering how long it would tale for thi s year to give us something we Can't Handle.
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Jan 8, 2015 01:06
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steinrokkan posted:It's despicable to judge people based on five minutes of superficial coverage, yes. Especially when it serves to relativize the significance of their death. How dare you judge me based on one superficial post. You bastard.
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Jan 8, 2015 01:08
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In my opinion it is bad to do anything other than unconditionally and totally condemn the massacre of multiple journalists in a free country for expressing an opinion someone didn't like.
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Jan 8, 2015 01:09
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Cpt.Americant posted:I'm not blaming him! I'm jumping into a conversation about if it's right to criticize his work and I'm saying that it is. He made anti-Muslim cartoons and was then killed by Muslim extremests. He did not deserve to be killed no matter what he wrote, but could it not at least be a factor? He was targeted, this wasn't random, but I'm not even saying he shouldn't have made those cartoons. I do not blame him in any way, so where is my victim blaming? What is there to debate? The facts are that he made fun of a religion (really, he made fun of pretty much all religions and most political sensitivities, but I disgress) and got killed for it. Now you're trying to shape the debate into "well he had it coming, let's be honest." while the only reasonable point of view on the matter is "noone should get murdered for expressing their thoughts, even if it offends people". I honestly cannot believe I have to explain to people that killing people for making fun of your religion is a bad thing, but there we are, year of our lord 2015
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Jan 8, 2015 01:09
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The shooting thread is so radioactively lovely that it's making GBS threads up otherwise good threads.
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Jan 8, 2015 01:09
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Gotta go with the Witch on this one.
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Jan 8, 2015 01:11
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Zeroisanumber posted:The shooting thread is so radioactively lovely that it's making GBS threads up otherwise good threads.
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Jan 8, 2015 01:12
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And it would be just as bad if someone walked into Asay or Kirschen's office and shot them in the head for their cartoons, by the way.
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Jan 8, 2015 01:12
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Political cartoons are on the world stage for the first time in years and this thread is calling discussion of that a derail?
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Jan 8, 2015 01:13
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CharlestheHammer posted:How dare you judge me based on one superficial post. Maybe. But you aren't a corpse murdered by political / religious extremists few hours ago.
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Jan 8, 2015 01:13
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WitchFetish posted:What is there to debate? The facts are that he made fun of a religion (really, he made fun of pretty much all religions and most political sensitivities, but I disgress) and got killed for it. Now you're trying to shape the debate into "well he had it coming, let's be honest." while the only reasonable point of view on the matter is "noone should get murdered for expressing their thoughts, even if it offends people". Did you not even read what you quoted? Again I will repeat myself: I am not blaming him! He did not deserve to be killed no matter what he wrote I do not blame him in any way Where are you getting this "he had it coming" from my comment? He did not have it coming! I never said he did. Being killed for making fun of anything is a bad thing. We agree on that! Cpt.Americant fucked around with this message at 01:16 on Jan 8, 2015 |
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Jan 8, 2015 01:13
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steinrokkan posted:Maybe. But you aren't a corpse murdered by political / religious extremists few hours ago. Should have just said that to begin with, rather than pretend it was something deeper. Which is wasn't.
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Jan 8, 2015 01:14
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WitchFetish posted:What is there to debate? The facts are that he made fun of a religion (really, he made fun of pretty much all religions and most political sensitivities, but I disgress) and got killed for it. Now you're trying to shape the debate into "well he had it coming, let's be honest." while the only reasonable point of view on the matter is "noone should get murdered for expressing their thoughts, even if it offends people". Agreed, the crown ought purge all those who share the blood of the Saracen, Jew, and Gypsy from France, yea, the whole of Europa, such that we may enjoy the fruits of Christendom and democracy without fear of retribution from their cruel and superstitious religion which does not brook mockery of their false prophets.
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Jan 8, 2015 01:18
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Cpt.Americant posted:Did you not even read what you quoted? Again I will repeat myself: You know how when someone says "I'm not racist, but..." you can pretty reliably 100% expect him to say something racist right after? Same goes for your trite "I'm not saying he deserved to be murdered, but", have fun finding those in your posts yourself, I already got sick enough reading your terrible posts one time, not need to give them a second read.
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Jan 8, 2015 01:19
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Jedit posted:No, it's the right time to bring it up. It's why Charlie Hebdo was targeted, and as such it is relevant - doubly so, considering that had it been one of the thread's right wing regulars who had been killed by extremists, you wouldn't be able to breathe in here for the schadenfreude. Charb was a promoter of Islamophobia despite his protestations to the contrary and he and his colleagues were murdered by people they had denigrated and abused in the name of cheap humour. However, whatever they may have done the important thing is that they were murdered, not "brought to justice", "executed" or any other buzzword the killers care to use. I wish the French every success in catching and punishing those responsible. How is this not the same as saying that we should discuss the clothes a rape victim was wearing (or that she had been drinking, or partying, or walking alone) because "it's why [she] was targeted, and as such it is relevant". E: Please don't make me be on the same side of an argument as WitchFetish.
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Jan 8, 2015 01:20
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WitchFetish posted:You know how when someone says "I'm not racist, but..." you can pretty reliably 100% expect him to say something racist right after? Same goes for your trite "I'm not saying he deserved to be murdered, but", have fun finding those in your posts yourself, I already got sick enough reading your terrible posts one time, not need to give them a second read.
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Jan 8, 2015 01:20
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Wales Grey posted:Agreed, the crown ought purge all those who share the blood of the Saracen, Jew, and Gypsy from France, yea, the whole of Europa, such that we may enjoy the fruits of Christendom and democracy without fear of retribution from their cruel and superstitious religion which does not brook mockery of their false prophets. Yeah, saying that people shouldn't be murdered because of jokes is a conspiracy by white people against the noble orientals.Go gently caress yourself.
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Jan 8, 2015 01:21
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R. Mute posted:No, WitchFetish, this is just you not being able to understand nuance, or anything.
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Jan 8, 2015 01:21
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Wales Grey posted:Agreed, the crown ought purge all those who share the blood of the Saracen, Jew, and Gypsy from France, yea, the whole of Europa, such that we may enjoy the fruits of Christendom and democracy without fear of retribution from their cruel and superstitious religion which does not brook mockery of their false prophets. 
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Jan 8, 2015 01:24
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Boy this upcoming Kirschen comic better be worth it!
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Jan 8, 2015 01:24
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WitchFetish posted:You know how when someone says "I'm not racist, but..." you can pretty reliably 100% expect him to say something racist right after? Same goes for your trite "I'm not saying he deserved to be murdered, but", have fun finding those in your posts yourself, I already got sick enough reading your terrible posts one time, not need to give them a second read. I don't think it's contradictory to hold the position that a person can express beliefs that are awful, or at the very least deliberately express something in a puerile and repugnant fashion, while also believing that they shouldn't be murdered for that expression. This position is also not incongruous with the thought that an unjust death does not render the victim or their works immune to criticism.
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Jan 8, 2015 01:24
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Jesus christ you guys.
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Jan 8, 2015 01:24
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Cpt.Americant posted:No, it's not saying the liberal ideologies provoked Breivik, it's only saying that the campers were liberals and that their ideology was a factor. Do you not agree that the ideology was a factor to Breivik? There's a reason Breivik killed those people and not other people. That doesn't make Breivik justified in any way at all to say that. It was a factor, though not in the same way that access to guns was a factor in the shootings that your previous post alluded to. Shutting down those two lines of discussion for a short while seem very different to me because while one is focused on how we could've prevented the massacre by imposing constraints on the general ability to perform massacres, the other is focused on how the specific victims of the massacre might have altered their behavior to be a less likely target.
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Jan 8, 2015 01:24
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WitchFetish posted:You know how when someone says "I'm not racist, but..." you can pretty reliably 100% expect him to say something racist right after? Same goes for your trite "I'm not saying he deserved to be murdered, but", have fun finding those in your posts yourself, I already got sick enough reading your terrible posts one time, not need to give them a second read. So my only two options then are to never mention that he made offensive cartoons or side with the killers? In your view there is no middle ground at all? Am I siding with Bin Laden if I try to find a reason why those crazy guys might have wanted to do 9/11?
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Jan 8, 2015 01:25
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At the end of the day, I don't care what they said about Islam or Muslims in comparison to the actual violence that was carried out. They could be saying the worst poo poo you could fathom and it's still not anywhere near a problem on the same level as murdering people. If you want to talk about France's problem with Islam, great, do it in a different context. It's mind-boggling that you aren't seeing this in the same light as "well he shouldn't have been choked o death BUT if he wasn't illegally selling cigarettes" the two "wrongs" are on such a laughably different scale that you look like an incredible gently caress for trying to do any sort of "well both sides were wrong" bullshit.
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Jan 8, 2015 01:25
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If France today truly followed the will of the Lord, the would have asked their Spanish brothers in Christ for inquisitors to ferret out such blasphemy.
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Jan 8, 2015 01:26
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More important than all of this, Joe Liccar has returned after several months off. I can only assume he spent his time off on Bizarro Earth, because that's the only way his understanding of net 
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Jan 8, 2015 01:26
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 Guardian:  "Steve Bell on the Charlie Hebdo attack – At least 12 dead after three gunmen walk into Paris magazine Charlie Hebdo's offices and open fire before fleeing in a getaway car" Yesterday's Telegraph:  Telegraph:  Independent:  Times:  Express:  Brent crude oil price dips below $50 a barrel
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Jan 8, 2015 01:26
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Oh boy. Seriously, I think some people are so mad about this that they are not reading things right. Words are getting transformed in their heads, into other words that are more damning for the other person. Huh, maybe conservatives are like that all the time. Would explain a lot.
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Jan 8, 2015 01:29
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WitchFetish posted:Can we at least give it 24 hours before we try to out-D&D each others on who has the most fake-nuanced view, or is it too much to ask of you?
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Jan 8, 2015 01:29
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Cloud Potato posted:Telegraph: Gorrel????
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Jan 8, 2015 01:29
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Cloud Potato posted:Telegraph: People are dead, time to take the day off! Also, it's possible to be a racist gently caress and to not deserve death.
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Jan 8, 2015 01:30
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Portals posted:Jesus christ you guys. This is actually the sort of cartoon that Charlie Hebdo used to print all the time. If Fitzsimmons is acceptable, thus is Charlie Hebdo. It's seriously shocking how many people in here are literally supporting the view that "Charlie Hebdo had it coming".
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Jan 8, 2015 01:30
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JT Jag posted:Words are getting transformed in their heads, into other words that are more damning for the other person. d&d.txt also 
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Jan 8, 2015 01:30
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thatdarnedbob posted:It was a factor, though not in the same way that access to guns was a factor in the shootings that your previous post alluded to. Shutting down those two lines of discussion for a short while seem very different to me because while one is focused on how we could've prevented the massacre by imposing constraints on the general ability to perform massacres, the other is focused on how the specific victims of the massacre might have altered their behavior to be a less likely target. Ok, that's very fair.. I just generally get irked when I hear people try to shut down conversation due to things being "too soon." I still think it's fine to talk about possible motivations for the killers without (a) endorsing literally anything they did or (b) being disrespectful of the victims. With the Norway example, we can discuss why the killer might have did what he did right away without doing either of those two things right? So why not for this tragedy?
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Jan 8, 2015 01:31
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