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RVProfootballer posted:Isn't that exactly what you're saying? "It's really ignorant to call romance author X that pumps out 10 books a year bad, since they're obviously doing something a large number of people enjoy. They wouldn't be publishing a lot of books if they were bad! They even won an award (best vampire fisting scene of 2014)." Making your books hyper-marketable is, in fact, a skill. It's just that a work of art can be good at some things and bad at others.
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Jan 8, 2015 14:37
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Darth Walrus posted:Making your books hyper-marketable is, in fact, a skill. It's just that a work of art can be good at some things and bad at others. Great, we can agree that Sanderson is good at making his books hyper-marketable, not making them good.
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Jan 8, 2015 14:44
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anilEhilated posted:Speaking of Glen Cook, how about his Garret PI series? The premise seems like it could be a lot of fun... The Garret series is probably Cook's best stuff. They're a really solid love letter to noir detective fiction like Phil Marlowe or Rex Stout. They're a good mix of character development, mystery, and action. The world building is terrific too, Tun Faire is a vibrant, real place filled with interesting people. There's one terrible novel in about the middle of the series, but the quality bounces back nicely after that. I'd say the whole series is gold. Or lead, bronze, copper, silver… Mom and I are both dearly hoping that there's at least one more in the series.
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Jan 8, 2015 15:12
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fritz posted:There are almost 40 books in the Xanth series, and counting. 
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Jan 8, 2015 15:12
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Did anyone else find Quantum Thief really hard to read? I don't know what the gently caress. I read it for three days in a row at night while high and on the fourth night I had to go back all that I read because I didn't know what the hell was going on. After reading it for some days while completely sober I'm thinking the drugs weren't the problem. Am I supposed to not understand it until later in the book?
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Jan 8, 2015 16:09
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RVProfootballer posted:Isn't that exactly what you're saying? "It's really ignorant to call romance author X that pumps out 10 books a year bad, since they're obviously doing something a large number of people enjoy. They wouldn't be publishing a lot of books if they were bad! They even won an award (best vampire fisting scene of 2014)." I think a Hugo is slightly more recognized by peers in the industry than the best vampire fisting scene of 2014 but I digress. This entire discussion is subjective. My statement wasn't intended to say that greater volume = greater product, only that there are more people that primarily read fantasy would disagree with your statement than would agree. I've tried multiple times to get into Discworld because everyone loving loves Pratchett. Initially I didn't know much about it so I figured I'd start from the beginning and read The Colour of Magic, then I posted here for a suggestion and the masses cried "Oh no don't read that one start with Guards Guards". I did, I liked it better but still not really my cup of tea. Someone suggested I read Roger Zelazny earlier in the thread, I responded that I had tried one of his books and didn't care for it. That being said if someone really thought I should try another title he'd written I'd give it a go. The point i'm trying to make is I don't come into a discussion thread and poo poo all over something as empirical fact when it's entirely subjective. Just say I don't really like book X because blah blah and move on. Although conversely I could just take my own advice and ignore you.
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Jan 8, 2015 16:36
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orange sky posted:Did anyone else find Quantum Thief really hard to read? I don't know what the gently caress. I read it for three days in a row at night while high and on the fourth night I had to go back all that I read because I didn't know what the hell was going on. After reading it for some days while completely sober I'm thinking the drugs weren't the problem. Am I supposed to not understand it until later in the book? I found the first few chapters really dense, but it slowly started to make sense after they got to Mars. Dunno.
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Jan 8, 2015 16:40
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I'm looking for a recent (2014/15) book to read on my new paperwhite. I prefer a novel and not part one of some moneymaking series. My favorite books from the last couple of years were The Golem and the Jinni, The Martian, and Ocean at the End of the Lane. Thank you in advance goons.
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Jan 8, 2015 16:53
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I love this thread so much.orange sky posted:Did anyone else find Quantum Thief really hard to read? I don't know what the gently caress. I read it for three days in a row at night while high and on the fourth night I had to go back all that I read because I didn't know what the hell was going on. After reading it for some days while completely sober I'm thinking the drugs weren't the problem. Am I supposed to not understand it until later in the book? Did you ever think that drugs might have ruined your brain for life? On the other hand the worldbuilding is pretty dense and Rajaniemi's not big on explaining stuff. I think everything has fairly literal names, just in non-English languages (like microscope is "small" + "see"); IIRC the Wikipedia page has translations. And it was mostly clear by the end, I think.
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Jan 8, 2015 16:55
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Syrinxx posted:I'm looking for a recent (2014/15) book to read on my new paperwhite. I prefer a novel and not part one of some moneymaking series. My favorite books from the last couple of years were The Golem and the Jinni, The Martian, and Ocean at the End of the Lane. City of Stairs by Robert Jackson Bennett if you haven't read it already, most folks in this thread liked it quite a bit and I did as well.
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Jan 8, 2015 16:56
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Cpt. Mahatma Gandhi posted:City of Stairs by Robert Jackson Bennett if you haven't read it already, most folks in this thread liked it quite a bit and I did as well. I kinda got butthurt over it a little as a Russian, but it's a good book, yes.
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Jan 8, 2015 16:58
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Cpt. Mahatma Gandhi posted:City of Stairs by Robert Jackson Bennett if you haven't read it already, most folks in this thread liked it quite a bit and I did as well. Yeah, I think City of Stairs got the most support in this thread for scifi/fantasy book of the year.
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Jan 8, 2015 17:13
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orange sky posted:Did anyone else find Quantum Thief really hard to read? I don't know what the gently caress. I read it for three days in a row at night while high and on the fourth night I had to go back all that I read because I didn't know what the hell was going on. After reading it for some days while completely sober I'm thinking the drugs weren't the problem. Am I supposed to not understand it until later in the book? It definitely makes more sense on a reread or if you've read other post-singularity fiction. I find Accellerando to be a great primer and a pretty fun book.
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Jan 8, 2015 17:24
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Will check out City of Stairs, thanks!
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Jan 8, 2015 18:53
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I'm about 50 pages into Son of the Morning by Mark Alder and it's awesome so far. It's set in an alternate medieval earth where God, angels and demons exist and actively interfere in human affairs. It's ambiguous as to whether God/angels or Lucifer/demons are the good side, or if there is even a good side, and it's hinted that the chosen one savior type character is the Antichrist. I'm a sucker for old testament biblical mythology and it's used to very good effect in this book.
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Jan 8, 2015 19:19
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DACK FAYDEN posted:In the dark, I'm guessing You, by the brother of the dude who wrote The Magicians? The one about the magic sword that jumped between video game universes and the merchant AI engine that secretly made the stock market crash? That's the one. What a piece of poo poo that was.
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Jan 8, 2015 19:42
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savinhill posted:I'm about 50 pages into Son of the Morning by Mark Alder and it's awesome so far. It's set in an alternate medieval earth where God, angels and demons exist and actively interfere in human affairs. It's ambiguous as to whether God/angels or Lucifer/demons are the good side, or if there is even a good side, and it's hinted that the chosen one savior type character is the Antichrist. I'm a sucker for old testament biblical mythology and it's used to very good effect in this book. Picking this up because I, too, am a sucker for this kind of mythology.
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Jan 8, 2015 20:11
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savinhill posted:I'm about 50 pages into Son of the Morning by Mark Alder and it's awesome so far. It's set in an alternate medieval earth where God, angels and demons exist and actively interfere in human affairs. It's ambiguous as to whether God/angels or Lucifer/demons are the good side, or if there is even a good side, and it's hinted that the chosen one savior type character is the Antichrist. I'm a sucker for old testament biblical mythology and it's used to very good effect in this book. This sounds awesome, thanks for bringing it to my attention.
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Jan 8, 2015 20:11
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Speaking of Old Testament mythology, I have been reading the Clan Novel books for Old World of Darkness. I am shocked to discover they're actually not terrible. The characters are well distinguished and have different voices and it adequately conveys the feel of the Machiavellian politics of the old World of Darkness. I mean, it's not great and sometimes the writing gets too caught up in pointless introspection, but I expected pure schlock that I would read for a little while before putting down. Good for licensed fiction.
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Jan 8, 2015 20:16
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Syrinxx posted:I'm looking for a recent (2014/15) book to read on my new paperwhite. I prefer a novel and not part one of some moneymaking series. My favorite books from the last couple of years were The Golem and the Jinni, The Martian, and Ocean at the End of the Lane. Maybe also The Girl With All the Gifts, if you like good one-off sci-fi/fantasy. I'm not normally into zombie apocalypse stories, but I really liked this book and thought it had some really good characterization.
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Jan 8, 2015 22:22
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So I randomly stumbled across Titans in a big list of free books on amazon (and also Google Play) and I really enjoyed it. It kind of mashes up a few ideas including a super-AI spaceship, androids hiding from the authorities, establishing a legal framework for space colonization, and a several thousand year old immortal human narrator. Considering the price, I think it's quite solid.
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Jan 9, 2015 01:08
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Daggerpants posted:I think a Hugo is slightly more recognized by peers in the industry than the best vampire fisting scene of 2014 but I digress. This entire discussion is subjective. My statement wasn't intended to say that greater volume = greater product, only that there are more people that primarily read fantasy would disagree with your statement than would agree. I've tried multiple times to get into Discworld because everyone loving loves Pratchett. Initially I didn't know much about it so I figured I'd start from the beginning and read The Colour of Magic, then I posted here for a suggestion and the masses cried "Oh no don't read that one start with Guards Guards". I did, I liked it better but still not really my cup of tea. Someone suggested I read Roger Zelazny earlier in the thread, I responded that I had tried one of his books and didn't care for it. That being said if someone really thought I should try another title he'd written I'd give it a go. The point i'm trying to make is I don't come into a discussion thread and poo poo all over something as empirical fact when it's entirely subjective. Just say I don't really like book X because blah blah and move on. Although conversely I could just take my own advice and ignore you. Hugos might not have been the best example there because they're kinda a joke for actual quality. Because of how voting works with them it's more about being able to market yourself and having a social media presence that people like, that sorta thing. Plenty of awards can and will be popularity contests too.
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Jan 9, 2015 02:09
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I would be overjoyed to get a Hugo but at the same time they have no effect on sales, no one outside genre lit cares about them, and the voting pool is tiny, so they're basically a 'we like you' award.
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Jan 9, 2015 02:41
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General Battuta posted:I would be overjoyed to get a Hugo but at the same time they have no effect on sales Do you have a source for that? I'm pretty sure mainstream awards have a massive effect, but that may just be because there's a lot more authors there, so awards are more important for exposure.
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Jan 9, 2015 03:39
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No source! I could be wrong. It's just what I've always been told in industry circles.
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Jan 9, 2015 03:51
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I reckon it's pretty true. No one really cares. Honestly forums like this have the biggest impact. Aka word of mouth. Write a good book, hope for the best.savinhill posted:I'm about 50 pages into Son of the Morning by Mark Alder and it's awesome so far. It's set in an alternate medieval earth where God, angels and demons exist and actively interfere in human affairs. It's ambiguous as to whether God/angels or Lucifer/demons are the good side, or if there is even a good side, and it's hinted that the chosen one savior type character is the Antichrist. I'm a sucker for old testament biblical mythology and it's used to very good effect in this book. Yeah, I also went up the road on lunchbreak and my local had it! Also bought On the Steel Breeze because it caught my eye, but didn't realise it was no. 2! D'oh!
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Jan 9, 2015 04:36
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General Battuta posted:No source! I could be wrong. It's just what I've always been told in industry circles. I'm inclined to believe you, I'm just surprised by the difference from mainstream awards. I wonder if the same is true in other genres.
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Jan 9, 2015 16:52
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Apropos poorly sourced information. I do recall reading an online discussion about SF awards, and someone* involved in the publishing side of the business stated that the Hugo was the only SF award that had a noticeable impact on sales. This was several years ago and I no longer recall where this took place or who participated so ... Apply grain of salt and all that. * My brain seems to think it was one of the Nielsen Haydens, but I wouldn't thrust it on that.
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Jan 9, 2015 17:24
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I've heard that while there's no immediate bump, award winners don't seem to go out of print, so it does have an impact on the long tail.
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Jan 9, 2015 17:36
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If it's indie press, I can believe that a Hugo or even a Nebula would blow up your sales. If you're published by one of the big guys, less so, but still good for marketing, at least.
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Jan 9, 2015 19:05
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It probably does significantly increase the likelihood that an editor will actually read, or at least attempt to read, your submissions, rather than instantly shitcanning them.
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Jan 9, 2015 20:38
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I don't know of any market that instantly shitcans short stories - someone reads everything, if only a slush reader. In terms of long form, editors are probably getting your work via your agent, and if you're winning a long form Hugo you're probably already at a point where you don't need to worry about being ignored. But I am really not very experienced and getting a Hugo is probably quite good, especially if it helps you stay in print.
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Jan 9, 2015 20:50
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I recently finished the third Black Company omnibus by Glen Cook and I'm.. uncertain how to feel about the whole series. I loved the first one (Black Company through The White Rose), and while I definitely enjoyed the other two collections, by the time you finish the last novel in the series, it's pretty startling how much they've changed in tenor and such. I don't regret reading them, but I think I'll likely only ever re-read the first three novels. That said, I'm still very much in the mood for some dark, dark fantasy with a big scope that's sort of in the same vein. I often hear Glen Cook and Steven Erikson mentioned in the same breath, would Malazan be a good place to go from here?
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Jan 9, 2015 21:08
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Erikson was pretty heavily inspired by Cook and you'll see a lot of his style in how Erikson presents his various soldiers and marines. The first book of Malazan is rough but stick with it and you'll find a really good series.
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Jan 9, 2015 21:14
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General Battuta posted:But I am really not very experienced and getting a Hugo is probably quite good, especially if it helps you stay in print. IIRC just getting a nomination helped save Watt's career, that and making Blindsight free on his website.
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Jan 9, 2015 21:41
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savinhill posted:I'm about 50 pages into Son of the Morning by Mark Alder and it's awesome so far. It's set in an alternate medieval earth where God, angels and demons exist and actively interfere in human affairs. It's ambiguous as to whether God/angels or Lucifer/demons are the good side, or if there is even a good side, and it's hinted that the chosen one savior type character is the Antichrist. I'm a sucker for old testament biblical mythology and it's used to very good effect in this book. Reading it right now. There are lots of parts that make my eyes glaze over, but I also can't remember the last time I actually laughed out loud while reading a book and that's already happened a couple of times here (the pardoner's dialogue is gold).
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Jan 9, 2015 21:49
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MockingQuantum posted:That said, I'm still very much in the mood for some dark, dark fantasy with a big scope that's sort of in the same vein. I often hear Glen Cook and Steven Erikson mentioned in the same breath, would Malazan be a good place to go from here?
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Jan 9, 2015 23:17
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MockingQuantum posted:That said, I'm still very much in the mood for some dark, dark fantasy with a big scope that's sort of in the same vein. I often hear Glen Cook and Steven Erikson mentioned in the same breath, would Malazan be a good place to go from here? Have you read Richard K. Morgan's "A Land Fit For Heroes" trilogy? It recently concluded and was pretty good. It's darkdark, but it's sort of a snarky dark. Sort of like Peter Watts, I guess, without all the footnotes and academic rigor.
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Jan 10, 2015 00:57
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The Land Fit For Heroes is what I would describe as grimsnark, an adjective I would also apply to Abercrombie's First Law.
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Jan 10, 2015 02:34
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Kalman posted:The Land Fit For Heroes is what I would describe as grimsnark, an adjective I would also apply to Abercrombie's First Law. People need to stop loving using the word "snark"
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