|
I think there are two factors about Adem life that might lead to their reproductive misunderstanding. The first is that they apparently have some type of medicine or plant that acts as a natural contraceptive, and they think that you just naturally get pregnant when you stop taking it... which means when they aren't trying to get pregnant, they're ALWAYS taking it. The second is that they have no (or at least, very few) sexual taboos, which means they be fuckin' a LOT. Now, if the only real pattern you see to life is "women get pregnant when they stop taking this stuff" (as the women who do stop taking it are almost certainly of child-bearing age, and pretty much everyone is banging at least one other person regularly), it might not even occur to them that it's a factor of both having sex AND of not being on the contraceptive drug. I mean, it still bugs the crap out of me that they know about "man-mothers" and haven't bothered to do even a little basic experimentation to see if the "barbarians" might actually be correct, but since the Adem seem to think they're god's gift to culture and civilization (though obviously not science), I can kind of understand why they'd just immediately dismiss the idea.
|
#
?
Jan 8, 2015 00:16
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 11, 2024 08:13 |
|
|
isochronous posted:I think there are two factors about Adem life that might lead to their reproductive misunderstanding. I have a third theory that they are a fictitious civilization with no internal integrity because Patrick Rothfuss didn't get much further than 'sword art' when developing their history.
|
|
#
?
Jan 8, 2015 01:51
|
|
|
Benson Cunningham posted:I have a third theory that they are a fictitious civilization with no internal integrity because Patrick Rothfuss didn't get much further than 'sword art' when developing their history. I would've assumed that ninja sex was the basis for which he developed their history.
|
|
#
?
Jan 8, 2015 07:35
|
|
|
This whole sex ninja thing came about because of the Penny Arcade strip right? Because swordsmen who follow a strict code of conduct (Lethani), consider the sword they have very important rather than an interchangeable weapon and hire themselves out as mercenaries aren't sex ninjas. They're sex samurais (or sex ronin if you don't consider the adem culture to be their masters)
|
|
#
?
Jan 8, 2015 15:42
|
|
|
pentyne posted:I would've assumed that ninja sex was the basis for which he developed their history. For group that worships the sword, you'd think they would learn how a cock works.
|
|
#
?
Jan 8, 2015 16:16
|
|
|
Benson Cunningham posted:I have a third theory that they are a fictitious civilization with no internal integrity because Patrick Rothfuss didn't get much further than 'sword art' when developing their history. Yes yes, you're very clever. I'm just pointing out that there are aspects of their culture which could explain their beliefs. I'm well aware of your theory, as it's been stated over and over and over again in this thread, mostly by the same half dozen people who have been posting the same complaints and criticisms for over a year now. I was simply looking for alternative theories, and I feel like what I said makes perfect sense. Whether or not you want to give Rothfuss the benefit of the doubt, however, is obviously up to you. isochronous fucked around with this message at 18:06 on Jan 8, 2015 |
|
#
?
Jan 8, 2015 18:04
|
|
|
isochronous posted:The first is that they apparently have some type of medicine or plant that acts as a natural contraceptive, and they think that you just naturally get pregnant when you stop taking it... which means when they aren't trying to get pregnant, they're ALWAYS taking it. The second is that they have no (or at least, very few) sexual taboos, which means they be fuckin' a LOT. Pretty good explanation. It has real life precedent. The people of the Trobiand Islands apparently didn't have a good understanding of the connection between sex and pregnancy because their staple crop, yams, contains chemicals which act as contraceptives. Another factor could be exercise habits. Adem who are training in fighting exercise a crazy amount. When Kvothe commits to the training, he becomes much leaner. It's possible that active fighters tend to not have enough body fat to get pregnant. When the decide they want a baby, they stop training so much. They get the body fat back. Their sex habits remain the same, so of course the quickly become pregnant.
|
|
#
?
Jan 8, 2015 18:23
|
|
|
Or Rothfuss wanted a way for his main character to have awesome ninja sex without having to worry about commitment or the emotions of anyone other than Kvothe.
Tuna_Fish_Odyssey fucked around with this message at 19:24 on Jan 8, 2015 |
|
#
?
Jan 8, 2015 19:13
|
|
|
It's always more fun to come up with a creative in-universe explanation for things like these, than just going with "the author screwed up", even if the latter is much more likely. I want him to hurry up and get the third book out, and then write another book about the present day adventures of Bast and Kvothe.
|
|
#
?
Jan 8, 2015 20:21
|
|
|
Tuna_Fish_Odyssey posted:Or Rothfuss wanted a way for his main character to have awesome ninja sex without having to worry about commitment or the emotions of anyone other than Kvothe. See also literal sex goddess incapable of that kind of emotion, and tavern wench into NSA sex.
|
|
#
?
Jan 8, 2015 20:27
|
|
|
isochronous posted:Yes yes, you're very clever. I'm just pointing out that there are aspects of their culture which could explain their beliefs. I'm well aware of your theory, as it's been stated over and over and over again in this thread, mostly by the same half dozen people who have been posting the same complaints and criticisms for over a year now. I was simply looking for alternative theories, and I feel like what I said makes perfect sense. Whether or not you want to give Rothfuss the benefit of the doubt, however, is obviously up to you. Only in recent years. I was really on board with the first book and I have two signed copies of it. I've spoken with Rothfuss several times in real life and in conversation he is a normal, nerdy dude. We're only so critical because we are so disappointed. Maybe our expectations were unrealistically high in the first place for what amounts to a young adult fantasy novel.
|
|
#
?
Jan 8, 2015 23:28
|
|
|
Dienes posted:See also literal sex goddess incapable of that kind of emotion, and tavern wench into NSA sex. And the girls he saved from any more horrific rapings by the fake Edema Ruh both tried to jump on Kvothe's dick as soon as they could.
|
|
#
?
Jan 9, 2015 03:39
|
|
|
Not to mention all the girls he dates once he's back at school.
|
|
#
?
Jan 9, 2015 04:26
|
|
|
Maybe he's trying to make a moral of "Sex doesn't make you happy" in book three. Where Kvothe is after a romance that barely registers on the healthy scale and winds up ruining the world trying to be all "DENNA I WUV YOU!"
|
|
#
?
Jan 9, 2015 05:35
|
|
|
M_Gargantua posted:Maybe he's trying to make a moral of "Sex doesn't make you happy" in book three. Where Kvothe is after a romance that barely registers on the healthy scale and winds up ruining the world trying to be all "DENNA I WUV YOU!" That's such a creepy male feminist thing to say though. "You see men, merely seeking sex is unfulfilling, you must find someone you love and cherish and abandon the demeaning aspects of hook-up culture" tips hat, waits for women to applaud his forward thinking and championing their rights.
|
|
#
?
Jan 9, 2015 05:46
|
|
|
pentyne posted:...creepy male feminist... Which sadly sums up a non-negligible percentage of the reader base for Rothfuss and compatriots. On an unrelated note I immediately assumed your username was based on WMF.
|
|
#
?
Jan 9, 2015 05:55
|
|
|
pentyne posted:And the girls he saved from any more horrific rapings by the fake Edema Ruh both tried to jump on Kvothe's dick as soon as they could. I don't remember this even being implied let alone being explicitly stated. Are you sure about this?
|
|
#
?
Jan 9, 2015 06:48
|
|
|
pentyne posted:And the girls he saved from any more horrific rapings by the fake Edema Ruh both tried to jump on Kvothe's dick as soon as they could. This, except complete opposite. It's not what happened at all.
|
|
#
?
Jan 9, 2015 07:17
|
|
|
Brannigans Love posted:I don't remember this even being implied let alone being explicitly stated. Are you sure about this? I recently reread Wise Man's Fear. The girls never express sexual interest in Kvothe. In fact, they express fear that he's going to force himself on them after they escape, and Kvothe sleeps outside the tent.
|
|
#
?
Jan 9, 2015 07:27
|
|
|
I'm totally open to the possibility of Rothfuss pulling off some crazy poo poo that sheds new light on Kvothe's accounts from Wise Man's Fear in a new light, but we'll have to wait and see.
|
|
#
?
Jan 9, 2015 08:22
|
|
|
What? And close the thread for the next five+ years? Benson Cunningham posted:Only in recent years. I was really on board with the first book and I have two signed copies of it. I've spoken with Rothfuss several times in real life and in conversation he is a normal, nerdy dude. We're only so critical because we are so disappointed. Maybe our expectations were unrealistically high in the first place for what amounts to a young adult fantasy novel. Yeah, I'd have to agree, but I also think the first book created so much hype with its fun , new spin on the genre that the sequel could never have lived up to it. The Lies of Locke Lamora also suffered from that.
|
|
#
?
Jan 9, 2015 09:08
|
|
|
M_Gargantua posted:Which sadly sums up a non-negligible percentage of the reader base for Rothfuss and compatriots. It's a basic 6 letter organic compound of the hydrocarbons. I was going for the shortest real word I could find that no one was likely to have used. Brannigans Love posted:I don't remember this even being implied let alone being explicitly stated. Are you sure about this? It's been years, but I could've sworn there was some "I could tell they wanted me to stay with them, but I had other business to take care of" or something that came off as really creepy. Either way it was immediately followed up with a blatant stdh.txt when the Duke's wife starts ranting about how evil the Ruh are, Kvothe calls her out, and then says "Because I am Edema Ruh, what now!"
|
|
#
?
Jan 9, 2015 10:24
|
|
|
Ghetto Prince posted:Yeah, I'd have to agree, but I also think the first book created so much hype with its fun , new spin on the genre that the sequel could never have lived up to it. The Lies of Locke Lamora also suffered from that. Lies of Locke Lamora actually works as a novel though - you can read it and then be done with that series (the second ends on a cliffhanger though and I haven't read the third). Name of the Wind is more like Fellowship of the ring in that its one part of one story.
|
|
#
?
Jan 9, 2015 16:09
|
|
|
Ghetto Prince posted:What? And close the thread for the next five+ years? I think Red Seas Under Red Skies wasn't as good as well, but it definitely could have been. Don't even get me started on the third book though. It was Lynch's Wise Man's Fear.
|
|
#
?
Jan 9, 2015 16:31
|
|
|
M_Gargantua posted:Maybe he's trying to make a moral of "Sex doesn't make you happy" in book three. Where Kvothe is after a romance that barely registers on the healthy scale and winds up ruining the world trying to be all "DENNA I WUV YOU!" I mean we already kind of got that, what with Kvothe horrifically misreading Denna (Surprise! He's a gently caress up.) and thinking she'll be super impressed or whatever with all his sexing, and seeing his newfound prowess she'd swoon into his arms and blah blah blah then she tells him to gently caress off. It's great, and for me, what turns that bit from 'blatant author wish fulfillment' to 'look at this character who has had something amazing dropped in his lap fuc it up enormously.' Which, to me, is sort of what I'm here for. Awesome character who is good at everything and waltzes through the plot is pretty boring, but the prototypical high fantasy dude loving up enormously because he's too short sighted to put two and two together? That's kinda fun. pentyne posted:That's such a creepy male feminist thing to say though. More I think that Kvothe really isn't after sex so much as he is (monomanically) focused on Denna, much to his detriment. When she's first introduced Bast breaks through the framing device and goes 'yo, she wasn't that pretty, her nose was loving crooked' and Old Kvothe (who has otherwise shown a good bit of self-awareness) kinda brushes it off, but that's clearly one of the big themes so far. Denna is all Kvothe wants in the world and he's a loving dumbass who doesn't actually know her at all. I think it's less a commentary on hook up whatever more a commentary on Kvothe's obsession.
|
|
#
?
Jan 9, 2015 18:51
|
|
|
pentyne posted:It's been years, but I could've sworn there was some "I could tell they wanted me to stay with them, but I had other business to take care of" or something that came off as really creepy. Either way it was immediately followed up with a blatant stdh.txt when the Duke's wife starts ranting about how evil the Ruh are, Kvothe calls her out, and then says "Because I am Edema Ruh, what now!" I don't recall that being in the book but even if it is. He just saved them from rapist kidnappers and I'd take it more as him making the girls feel safe than anything else if it's in there.
|
|
#
?
Jan 9, 2015 19:11
|
|
|
the JJ posted:I mean we already kind of got that, what with Kvothe horrifically misreading Denna (Surprise! He's a gently caress up.) and thinking she'll be super impressed or whatever with all his sexing, and seeing his newfound prowess she'd swoon into his arms and blah blah blah then she tells him to gently caress off. It's great, and for me, what turns that bit from 'blatant author wish fulfillment' to 'look at this character who has had something amazing dropped in his lap fuc it up enormously.' Which, to me, is sort of what I'm here for. Awesome character who is good at everything and waltzes through the plot is pretty boring, but the prototypical high fantasy dude loving up enormously because he's too short sighted to put two and two together? That's kinda fun. Well said. Rereading the books, I was struck how time and time again, Kvothe refuses to open up to Denna. He repeatedly refuses to share any real part of himself with her. I kept wanting him to just tell her about what happened to his parents. Or just tell her he's interested even. Either one would have all but guaranteed him a genuine relationship with her. She's clearly very interested. But nope. He refuses over and over again to share his back story. In fact, the first person he ever tells about his parents' murder is the goddamn Cthaeh. And he doesn't tell her he's romantically interested until after he's started sleeping around. This almost certainly gives her the impression that he just wants to sleep with her. I don't know if there's a moral about sex in the story, but if there is, I think it's this. Getting laid and having a meaningful relationship are not the same thing. It's not super deep, but it's the kind of mistake an emotionally stunted teenager would make.
|
|
#
?
Jan 9, 2015 20:39
|
|
|
I want to start a drinking game where someone tells you the name of a move and you have to guess if it relates to Sex or Swordfighting. Tumbling leaf! Break lion! Thousand hands! Beaten Willow!
|
|
#
?
Jan 10, 2015 00:55
|
|
|
Benson Cunningham posted:I think Red Seas Under Red Skies wasn't as good as well, but it definitely could have been. Don't even get me started on the third book though. It was Lynch's Wise Man's Fear. I'm with you on Red Seas not beig as good as Lies, although I still really enjoyed it. I'm curious why you thought Republic of Thieves was as bad as WMF. I get that Lockes relationship with Sabetha was as bad as Kvothes to Denna, but the difference to me is that Locke is portrayed as an utter idiot for it, loudly voiced by Jean. I do think that the book could have done with a better caper, though.
|
|
#
?
Jan 10, 2015 01:12
|
|
|
LASER BEAM DREAM posted:I'm with you on Red Seas not beig as good as Lies, although I still really enjoyed it. I'm curious why you thought Republic of Thieves was as bad as WMF. I get that Lockes relationship with Sabetha was as bad as Kvothes to Denna, but the difference to me is that Locke is portrayed as an utter idiot for it, loudly voiced by Jean. I do think that the book could have done with a better caper, though. I felt like nothing happened in the third book of any note except for 30 pages at the end. I also didn't like what it setup plot wise. The world building was almost entirely relegated to the bondsmagi who were much cooler when they were mysterious. The flashback story was boring. I appreciate some of what Lynch tried to do. And, I did genuinely like the second book. I just felt like the third fell flat. I haven't reread it yet though so my opinion could change.
|
|
#
?
Jan 10, 2015 01:57
|
|
|
I liked the backstory in book 3 but the actual story was pretty boring. The prequel plot thread was fun.
|
|
#
?
Jan 10, 2015 02:40
|
|
|
thespaceinvader posted:I liked the backstory in book 3 but the actual story was pretty boring. The prequel plot thread was fun. Scott Lynch ROT spoilers : I think the big mistake Lynch makes is setting Sabetha up as the antagonist. Forcing her to work with Locke would have made for a much more interesting novel, especially since whatever opposition they establish wouldn't hesitate to threaten their lives in a very serious manner. The whole voting war felt more like a series of pranks than anything else. When the first book involves having everyone you loved be murdered and then the main character is sent to drown in a coffin of horse piss, the tone is just a little off. Anyway, back to Rothfuss I guess.
|
|
#
?
Jan 10, 2015 03:19
|
|
|
Benson Cunningham posted:Scott Lynch ROT spoilers : Lynch killed off too many of his characters in the first book. It sort of limits your options in a long series.
|
|
#
?
Jan 10, 2015 13:09
|
|
|
Karnegal posted:Lynch killed off too many of his characters in the first book. It sort of limits your options in a long series. I was really hoping they'd pick up a new protege or two like Bug in The Republic of Thieves.
|
|
#
?
Jan 10, 2015 15:50
|
|
|
Karnegal posted:Lynch killed off too many of his characters in the first book. It sort of limits your options in a long series. That and when you do that kind of thing you can't just do more of the same. You either keep escalating or dial it way back down.
|
|
#
?
Jan 11, 2015 09:07
|
|
|
Nevvy Z posted:That and when you do that kind of thing you can't just do more of the same. You either keep escalating or dial it way back down. Does GRRM fall under the keep escalating? Though I guess the only deaths anyone cares about, certain snakes not withstanding, are still people in the original family everyone is rooting for.
|
|
#
?
Jan 11, 2015 09:33
|
|
|
Benson Cunningham posted:Does GRRM fall under the keep escalating? Though I guess the only deaths anyone cares about, certain snakes not withstanding, are still people in the original family everyone is rooting for. He dialed it way down. No one of importance has died since book 3. And one of them even came back to life.
|
|
#
?
Jan 11, 2015 16:32
|
|
|
Plus his cast is way way bigger so there's always more to kill if you need.
|
|
#
?
Jan 12, 2015 01:17
|
|
|
New tweet.. No book until end of 2016.
|
|
#
?
Jan 16, 2015 19:21
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 11, 2024 08:13 |
|
|
Errant Gin Monks posted:New tweet.. No book until end of 2016. Sooner than I expected it.
|
|
#
?
Jan 16, 2015 19:45
|
|