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FactsAreUseless
Feb 16, 2011

If you got far enough in Spirit Tracks to get to the flute, you got farther than I did. I quit when the first thing the game has you do is a combination stealth/escort mission with insta-fail if you're seen.

Spirit Tracks came out in 2009.

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Simply Simon
Nov 6, 2010

📡scanning🛰️ for good game 🎮design🦔🦔🦔
Spirit Tracks is loving garbage. I quit on the last mandatory flute thing because it's the absolute worst minigame I ever had to play. I literally cannot do it and at least three of my friends also cannot do it because it is so stupid. My biggest problem is probably that you get no immediate feedback when you gently caress up, have to play through the entire loving sequence and then he's like WELP YOU hosed UP SOMEWHERE and I have zero idea what I am actually doing wrong.

And the worst thing about the game is not even this; it's my complete lack of motivation to even try getting better at the flute nonsense or reading up on it or whatever because Spirit Tracks is loving joyless from start to almost-finish and easily the absolute worst Zelda game. I cannot tell you how absurdly pleased I was recently playing A Link Between Worlds just because it is not mindnumbingly terrible in every aspect (it is also quite good, in fact).

Judge Tesla
Oct 29, 2011

:frogsiren:
So Persona 4, great game, probably the best game on the Vita and I've put more than 90 hours into it, but, it has one problem, one tiny thing that drags it down for me, it takes so goddamn long to start a new game, from the time you see Igor's big nose in the intro to when you eventually fight Shadow Yoskue is a good few hours of gameplay, and even then things don't get rolling properly until Yukkiko gets grabbed a few hours later again.

I just want to be able to summon Satan and Lucifer sooner game!

FredMSloniker
Jan 2, 2008

Why, yes, I do like Kirby games.

Judge Tesla posted:

So Persona 4, great game, probably the best game on the Vita and I've put more than 90 hours into it, but, it has one problem, one tiny thing that drags it down for me, it takes so goddamn long to start a new game, from the time you see Igor's big nose in the intro to when you eventually fight Shadow Yoskue is a good few hours of gameplay, and even then things don't get rolling properly until Yukkiko gets grabbed a few hours later again.

I just want to be able to summon Satan and Lucifer sooner game!

I know that feel. Persona Q is better about it than 3 and 4, but it still takes too drat long to be able to save the game (and, if you forgot to set options before starting the game, to be able to set them), and even then it's more like a checkpoint in the intro, because you then get railroaded along for a good long while before you get to actual (tutorial) gameplay.

bewilderment
Nov 22, 2007
man what



Judge Tesla posted:

So Persona 4, great game, probably the best game on the Vita and I've put more than 90 hours into it, but, it has one problem, one tiny thing that drags it down for me, it takes so goddamn long to start a new game, from the time you see Igor's big nose in the intro to when you eventually fight Shadow Yoskue is a good few hours of gameplay, and even then things don't get rolling properly until Yukkiko gets grabbed a few hours later again.

I just want to be able to summon Satan and Lucifer sooner game!

Yeah, I remember this on the PS2. If you were gonna start a new game then for the entire opening sequence you really needed, like, a snack and a warm comfy blanket or something, whatever helps you chill out, because you're gonna be watching anime and occasionally advancing text for the next two to three hours.

Lord Lambeth
Dec 7, 2011


My Lovely Horse posted:

I played a warlock in Neverwinter Nights 2 and never wanted to take off my starting armor. Needless to say, didn't work out. (Kind of a bad example though because you can craft any armor into something that dwarfs any existing equipment and warlocks are the god-kings of crafting, but then I never got that far into it.)

Isn't there a mod that let's you swap the armor to whatever you want and keep the stats?

Elysiume
Aug 13, 2009

Alone, she fights.

Tiggum posted:

I love being able to change my character's outfit, but I hate in RPGs when you're basically forced to wear dumb-looking stuff because it's better in gameplay terms than the cool stuff you want to wear. What would be awesome is if there was a way to swap the properties of any two items of the same type. So you could have a helmet with wings on or something that you want to wear and find a much better, but plainer helmet, and just go "swap attributes" and keep wearing your wing helmet but have the game treat it as though it were the better one.

There were so many cool-looking items in Dragon Age: Origins that I just never got to use because they weren't as good as the less impressive-looking stuff I already had. So I basically did just get stuck staring at the same bland arsehole because the gear I wanted to switch to just wasn't as good.
Some games like Diablo 3 and Guild Wars 2 have that. Both of them have a gold fee to swap an appearance. In D3 it's a pittance but in GW2 I think it's a bit more than that.

Luisfe
Aug 17, 2005

Hee-lo-ho!

bewilderment posted:

Yeah, I remember this on the PS2. If you were gonna start a new game then for the entire opening sequence you really needed, like, a snack and a warm comfy blanket or something, whatever helps you chill out, because you're gonna be watching anime and occasionally advancing text for the next two to three hours.

Fortunately, the vita version let's you press start in events so it fast forwards.
That is a real good addition that I do not remember from the ps2 verion.

DrBouvenstein
Feb 28, 2007

I think I'm a doctor, but that doesn't make me a doctor. This fancy avatar does.
That's one of the things I always loved about City of Heroes. Whatever you wanted to look like was 100% up to you, and the lack of armor/items in the game meant nothing ever really changed your appearance.

Half the fun of the drat game was the initial character creation, especially later on when they added in a lot more options.

GOTTA STAY FAI
Mar 24, 2005

~no glitter in the gutter~
~no twilight galaxy~
College Slice

Luisfe posted:

Fortunately, the vita version let's you press start in events so it fast forwards.
That is a real good addition that I do not remember from the ps2 verion.

It was not a feature in the PS2 version of the game.

I'm glad they implemented it, though. And they picked the best sound effect for it, too--a cassette tape being fast-forwarded :)

DStecks
Feb 6, 2012

DrBouvenstein posted:

That's one of the things I always loved about City of Heroes. Whatever you wanted to look like was 100% up to you, and the lack of armor/items in the game meant nothing ever really changed your appearance.

Half the fun of the drat game was the initial character creation, especially later on when they added in a lot more options.

I know I've ranted on this before, but CoH's combat UI was loving brilliant, specifically in how the icons for attacks actually told you, quantitatively, what those attacks did. It is the most headsmacking thing in the world that every MMO to follow has imitated the WoW model of icons being flavour that tells you precious little, instead of a UI that actually tells the player what stuff does, at a glance.

Judge Tesla
Oct 29, 2011

:frogsiren:

Luisfe posted:

Fortunately, the vita version let's you press start in events so it fast forwards.
That is a real good addition that I do not remember from the ps2 verion.

:vince: I've played P4 so many times on the Vita as mentioned but never knew this was a thing.

StandardVC10
Feb 6, 2007

This avatar now 50% more dark mode compliant
Europa Universalis 4: When you build enough colonies in a region, it becomes a separate colonial nation. So far this has proven to be tremendously annoying, as it can wage wars independent of the overlord nation, and in my case, do nothing but lose them, and there aren't many things I can do to influence it (most diplomatic options are unavailable for your own vassals, which colonies count as.) It turns out that the viceroy had a "militaristic" personality, and for some reason I can't just say, "alright, you suck, I'm getting a new viceroy." Even though it's nominally my colony.

Rick_Hunter
Jan 5, 2004

My guys are still fighting the hard fight!
(weapons, shields and drones are still online!)

DStecks posted:

I know I've ranted on this before, but CoH's combat UI was loving brilliant, specifically in how the icons for attacks actually told you, quantitatively, what those attacks did. It is the most headsmacking thing in the world that every MMO to follow has imitated the WoW model of icons being flavour that tells you precious little, instead of a UI that actually tells the player what stuff does, at a glance.

I haven't played WoW in a while, but I thought when you hovered over the abilities they told you what they did and the base damage. I also thought you had the option to get full tool tips or abridged tips.

marshmallow creep
Dec 10, 2008

I've been sitting here for 5 mins trying to think of a joke to make but I just realised the animators of Mass Effect already did it for me

Luisfe posted:

Fortunately, the vita version let's you press start in events so it fast forwards.
That is a real good addition that I do not remember from the ps2 verion.

I remember getting the Persona 4 fighting game and being gob smacked by how long it takes to get to the fighting when you start story mode. I know it's 'story mode" but story mode in most arcade games is done in one or two screens between fights, not fifteen minutes of voiced cutscenes. Even hitting the handy fast forward button you might have to sit there for a full minute for the fighting to start.

moosecow333
Mar 15, 2007

Super-Duper Supermen!

StandardVC10 posted:

Europa Universalis 4: When you build enough colonies in a region, it becomes a separate colonial nation. So far this has proven to be tremendously annoying, as it can wage wars independent of the overlord nation, and in my case, do nothing but lose them, and there aren't many things I can do to influence it (most diplomatic options are unavailable for your own vassals, which colonies count as.) It turns out that the viceroy had a "militaristic" personality, and for some reason I can't just say, "alright, you suck, I'm getting a new viceroy." Even though it's nominally my colony.

Can't you assassinate your Viceroy or something? Seems like most problems in that game can be solved with a good old dagger to the back.

World War Mammories
Aug 25, 2006


Rick_Hunter posted:

I haven't played WoW in a while, but I thought when you hovered over the abilities they told you what they did and the base damage. I also thought you had the option to get full tool tips or abridged tips.

He's not talking about tooltips, he's talking about the literal icon itself. http://paragonwiki.com/wiki/Power_Icons_Legend

Aphrodite
Jun 27, 2006

Having 50 of them makes it kind of pointless though.

marshmallow creep
Dec 10, 2008

I've been sitting here for 5 mins trying to think of a joke to make but I just realised the animators of Mass Effect already did it for me

The thing is they become intuitive during play and recognizable across sets so you can have hundreds of powers and recognize what a power will do by its icon even if you're starting a new character with a new set. In WoW you might have an icon that uses an eye and you don't know if it's a ranged attack or a buff or what.

Alaois
Feb 7, 2012

Lotish posted:

I remember getting the Persona 4 fighting game and being gob smacked by how long it takes to get to the fighting when you start story mode. I know it's 'story mode" but story mode in most arcade games is done in one or two screens between fights, not fifteen minutes of voiced cutscenes. Even hitting the handy fast forward button you might have to sit there for a full minute for the fighting to start.

the Persona 4 Arena story mode is actually meant to be a full-on story, the fights are almost entirely ancillary and last for a single round with the difficulty turned way down. If you actually wanna fight you play Arcade mode.

John Murdoch
May 19, 2009

I can tune a fish.

Aphrodite posted:

Having 50 of them makes it kind of pointless though.

By making them largely modular, having 50 of the things isn't really that big of a deal, especially when you consider that a bunch are "common effect + up" for buffs and "common effect + down" for debuffs or just different grades of damage. Some of them are still pretty smart, like how Disorient/Immobilize/Hold/Sleep are represented. A scant few are just baffling and pointlessly redundant, though.

Things also started to break down a bit when it came to enemy powers (the devs would get sloppy with what icon they used) and with some of the later powers that came packed with sixteen different conditional effects and such, which no clever icon system could possibly fully represent.

DStecks
Feb 6, 2012

Lotish posted:

The thing is they become intuitive during play and recognizable across sets so you can have hundreds of powers and recognize what a power will do by its icon even if you're starting a new character with a new set. In WoW you might have an icon that uses an eye and you don't know if it's a ranged attack or a buff or what.

This. There are a lot of icons, but a good number of them are were very rare, or only appeared in high-level attacks. The ring around them also told you what their targeting style was (single enemy, AOE, self, etc.), and the colour told you the power set it was from. Like I said, it's all about having the information at a glance, and even a good tooltip doesn't necessarily tell you how the attack will play.

What stopped me playing WoW forever is that I quit playing for a few months, came back, and found a character I'd sunk how many hours into now had an almost entirely different moveset that I couldn't make heads or tails of. A UI exists to give the player information, period. There's no rational argument against this beyond "it isn't 100% perfect", because the alternative is 0% perfect.

StandardVC10
Feb 6, 2007

This avatar now 50% more dark mode compliant

moosecow333 posted:

Can't you assassinate your Viceroy or something? Seems like most problems in that game can be solved with a good old dagger to the back.

Sorry, you're thinking of Crusader Kings. :v:

Randalor
Sep 4, 2011



StandardVC10 posted:

Sorry, you're thinking of Crusader Kings. :v:

Can... You give them their independence then immediately re-conquer them, subjugating them and putting them back under your immediate control?

Namarrgon
Dec 23, 2008

Congratulations on not getting fit in 2011!

Randalor posted:

Can... You give them their independence then immediately re-conquer them, subjugating them and putting them back under your immediate control?

Yes, but it would instantly become a colonial nation again. Still it is better than before: having to manually appoint a viceroy sounds fun, until you have to do so for all your colonies and the choice came with a small prestige hit that added up over time. Best would have been to simply give you the choice of course.

StandardVC10
Feb 6, 2007

This avatar now 50% more dark mode compliant
The problem isn't really the viceroys, it's that you can lose the colonies you built completely without your input unless you want to get into a war with your colony's enemy's suzerain (which, to be fair, you sometimes do, but usually I don't.) And you don't get a choice in the matter once your number of provinces in a region reaches a certain number.

Red Minjo
Oct 20, 2010

Out of the houses, which is the most blue?

The answer might not be be obvious at first.

Gravy Boat 2k
This may have been changed in a patch, but when my colonies attacked another nation's colonies, I got forcibly pulled into the war and put in as the leader. So I got to be swarmed by France, and they wouldn't let me give up until after they'd occupied all of Spain, at least 3 times in one game. I hate France in EUIV so much! No matter how much firepower I have, they have 1.5 times as much. :argh:

Of course, if I had remembered that scorched earth tactics existed, things may have gone a bit better, but I really should have just been able to tell my colonies "good luck, have fun."

Suleman
Sep 4, 2011
I've been playing Hitman: Absolution, and I've got a number of cripes with it, but one of the simplest ones is that enemies respawn when I load a checkpoint. This means that even enemies that I painstakingly got rid of to set up the coolest murder have suddenly reappeared.
I loved Blood Money very much, so I'm a bit biased about the new disguise system, too. To me, Hitman should be a game about carefully planning the perfect, unsolvable murder case, looking through the entire level and deciding your route of approach. Now that enemy types that you're disguised as get suspicious of you, that has become difficult in an annoying way. The new disguise system worked pretty well on the escape level though, I did enjoy that.
Also, since the target's movement cycle always starts at the same point when you reload, it means that I will have to wait ages for the target to get into that perfect spot again. I don't actually know what a good solution for this would be, though. More things to do besides just waiting for that single target, maybe? The original had some pretty big levels, usually with multiple targets, while Absolution's levels so far have been single-target levels.

OldTennisCourt
Sep 11, 2011

by VideoGames
Who on earth thought that the Deadlift boss fight from Borerlands: The Pre-Sequel was a good idea? A boss fight in a 3 tiered arena that you constantly have to jump around in with reduced gravity, against a dude who fire homing electrical attacks and who can make entire tiers of the structure deadly by electrifying the floor? And he CONSTANTLY JUMPS AROUND. Let's not forget the whole shield thing which means you need to keep on him at all times. Having jumping puzzles and poo poo in a 1st person shooter that isn't Portal is already really loving annoying but having to utilize it in a boss fight is really stupid.

And he's super early in the game too. His electrical attacks kick the poo poo out of you in seconds. The cherry on top is that it's very likely you're on a tier with no other enemies, meaning it's impossible to revive and keep going.

Holy poo poo this fight is beyond annoying.;

OldTennisCourt has a new favorite as of 23:09 on Jan 10, 2015

Crowetron
Apr 29, 2009

OldTennisCourt posted:

Who on earth thought that the Deadlift boss fight from Borerlands: The Pre-Sequel was a good idea? A boss fight in a 3 tiered arena that you constantly have to jump around in with reduced gravity, against a dude who fire homing electrical attacks and who can make entire tiers of the structure deadly by electrifying the floor? And he CONSTANTLY JUMPS AROUND. Let's not forget the whole shield thing which means you need to keep on him at all times. Having jumping puzzles and poo poo in a 1st person shooter that isn't Portal is already really loving annoying but having to utilize it in a boss fight is really stupid.

And he's super early in the game too. His electrical attacks kick the poo poo out of you in seconds. The cherry on top is that it's very likely you're on a tier with no other enemies, meaning it's impossible to revive and keep going.

Holy poo poo this fight is beyond annoying.;

Would you believe the boss fights actually get worse? Because they get so much worse. By the end of the game, I was feeling nostalgic for Borderlands 2's BUNK3R or whatever his name was.

OldTennisCourt
Sep 11, 2011

by VideoGames

Crowetron posted:

Would you believe the boss fights actually get worse? Because they get so much worse. By the end of the game, I was feeling nostalgic for Borderlands 2's BUNK3R or whatever his name was.

Is it worth trying to plow through? I'm finding it's the worst of all three games so far.

Jaramin
Oct 20, 2010


It is absolutely the worst of the 3 games. The bosses are horrible, loot drops are even worse, the areas are either samey or annoying to traverse, and the game as a whole feels like Borderlands 2.5.
That said, it has more interesting set pieces than either of the other two games, they got away from the "wacky, zany" humor that dominated every aspect of Borderlands 2(kinda), it gives you your action skill at level 3 instead of 5, and it adds frost damage while ditching the miserable pile of poo poo that was the slag mechanic from BL2.
If you have friends, you'll enjoy asphyxiating each other.

OldTennisCourt
Sep 11, 2011

by VideoGames

Jaramin posted:

It is absolutely the worst of the 3 games. The bosses are horrible, loot drops are even worse, the areas are either samey or annoying to traverse, and the game as a whole feels like Borderlands 2.5.
That said, it has more interesting set pieces than either of the other two games, they got away from the "wacky, zany" humor that dominated every aspect of Borderlands 2(kinda), it gives you your action skill at level 3 instead of 5, and it adds frost damage while ditching the miserable pile of poo poo that was the slag mechanic from BL2.
If you have friends, you'll enjoy asphyxiating each other.

I'm not going to lie, ClapTrap's action skill is really REALLY fun and kind of makes me want to keep playing just for it.

joshtothemaxx
Nov 17, 2008

I will have a whole army of zombies! A zombie Marine Corps, a zombie Navy Corps, zombie Space Cadets...
The game is very much so BL2.5. It really feels like a DLC that got a little too big, so they said gently caress it and made it a standalone game.

And I likes it a lot but cannot imagine playing that game alone. My brother and I duoed it in a few days over the holidays, and we basically had to take turns dying and Zerg rushing the last 3-4 bosses because they were impossible otherwise.

Also, probably 80% of all drops we had were pistols. I was the Lawbringer and he was Claptrap if that makes a difference. Either way, he wanted to snipe and support while I just charged in, and the absence of distance weapons really hurt our play through.

muscles like this!
Jan 17, 2005


Jaramin posted:

It is absolutely the worst of the 3 games. The bosses are horrible, loot drops are even worse, the areas are either samey or annoying to traverse, and the game as a whole feels like Borderlands 2.5.
That said, it has more interesting set pieces than either of the other two games, they got away from the "wacky, zany" humor that dominated every aspect of Borderlands 2(kinda), it gives you your action skill at level 3 instead of 5, and it adds frost damage while ditching the miserable pile of poo poo that was the slag mechanic from BL2.
If you have friends, you'll enjoy asphyxiating each other.

That just reminds me of a stupid thing from Borderlands 2. Namely how early in the game they give you a mission where you get to try out an energy weapon and then you don't see one for who knows how long. I sure don't because I never saw one the rest of the time I played the game, now I didn't finish it but I got pretty drat far.

Alaois
Feb 7, 2012

muscles like this? posted:

That just reminds me of a stupid thing from Borderlands 2. Namely how early in the game they give you a mission where you get to try out an energy weapon and then you don't see one for who knows how long. I sure don't because I never saw one the rest of the time I played the game, now I didn't finish it but I got pretty drat far.

strange because i was tripping over the drat things, which was unfortunate because I didn't find them terribly useful

princecoo
Sep 3, 2009
I really like Borderlands: The Pre-Sequel, but I am Australian, so every couple of minutes there is something new that makes me roll my eyes while grinning like an idiot. They let me punch Abbott! Twice! GOTY!

That said, the first, I dunno, 20 minutes, maybe? Everything on the station before you actually get shot at the moon. I was playing it and it just felt... crap. The low grav stuff is much better out in the open, in large areas, but that starting section is all corridors and smaller play areas. The animations of Jack as you escort him around, they feel like an amatuer modder pathed the character, with him running down a hallway then BAM 90 degree turn into a new room with no loss of speed. It was all very poorly animated and it really set the game up as being very sub-par in every department.

Once you actually get away from there though, everything comes together the way it was supposed to, and it's much better. Still, "Borderlands 2.5" is not an inaccurate description.

Lord Lambeth
Dec 7, 2011


Blacklist is a good game but it has a very very bad story. It makes me wish they hired obsidian to write.

really I just want alpha protocol reactivity with splinter cell gameplay, please get on that ubisoft

princecoo
Sep 3, 2009

Lord Lambeth posted:

really I just want alpha protocol reactivity with splinter cell gameplay, please get on that ubisoft

This guy knows what's up.

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DMorbid
Jan 6, 2011

With our special guest star, RUSH! YAYYYYYYYYY

OldTennisCourt posted:

Who on earth thought that the Deadlift boss fight from Borerlands: The Pre-Sequel was a good idea? A boss fight in a 3 tiered arena that you constantly have to jump around in with reduced gravity, against a dude who fire homing electrical attacks and who can make entire tiers of the structure deadly by electrifying the floor? And he CONSTANTLY JUMPS AROUND. Let's not forget the whole shield thing which means you need to keep on him at all times. Having jumping puzzles and poo poo in a 1st person shooter that isn't Portal is already really loving annoying but having to utilize it in a boss fight is really stupid.

And he's super early in the game too. His electrical attacks kick the poo poo out of you in seconds. The cherry on top is that it's very likely you're on a tier with no other enemies, meaning it's impossible to revive and keep going.

Holy poo poo this fight is beyond annoying.;
When I started playing, I was dreading that fight because I had heard it was awful and really hard. Then when I got to it, I just basically stood behind a crate and plinked at him with the shock-elemental sniper rifle I got from one of the early sidequests. Fight took maybe... two minutes, would have been even quicker if he didn't have a bunch of assholes shooting at me from above and I didn't have to keep regenerating my shields as a result.

edit: I only jumped once in the whole fight. Also, I don't mean to say that Borderlands boss fights aren't all terrible, because they totally are.

DMorbid has a new favorite as of 12:15 on Jan 11, 2015

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