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I would say Bakker is the closest comparable author I have read but dude needs to lay off the sex stuff.
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# ? Jan 7, 2015 00:44 |
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# ? May 30, 2024 13:50 |
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Cardiac posted:I kinda liked Bloodsong, at least along the lines as a enjoyable read. It is not like I will reread it like I have done with other series. Sanderson either has a less nuanced view of the world or that's just his style of writing. I don't think his characters are that much more shallow than Erikson's, though Erikson definitely goes deeper into the history of his world than Sanderson does.
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# ? Jan 7, 2015 01:56 |
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Hand Row posted:I would say Bakker is the closest comparable author I have read but dude needs to lay off the sex stuff. To be fair, this is true of many authors. Does it help the story? Cool. Go wild. Otherwise, I'm really not interested in someone else's sexual fantasies.
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# ? Jan 7, 2015 15:55 |
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Ynglaur posted:To be fair, this is true of many authors. Does it help the story? Cool. Go wild. Otherwise, I'm really not interested in someone else's sexual fantasies. Oh how I wish it was just sex ninja village fantasies with Bakker. He has rather strong views on sexuality. Here is a blog post covering his quotes. Male gaze rape machines woo. https://fozmeadows.wordpress.com/2012/04/27/the-problem-of-r-scott-bakker/
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# ? Jan 7, 2015 18:21 |
I am not a fan of Bakker's writing style or a lot of decisions he makes in his books but that blogpost looks highly suspect and pretty drat fallacious. edit: And let's face it, Bakker's coming out way ahead in the following discussion. Hell, the blogger even admits they haven't read the book they're bitching about. Really, the more I read of it the author of the blog comes as a rabid, foaming-at-the mouth fanatic. anilEhilated fucked around with this message at 19:39 on Jan 7, 2015 |
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# ? Jan 7, 2015 19:25 |
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Honestly I didn't read much of the bloggers comments, just read what Bakker says. I don't really care in the end if he has a grim view of sexuality and has views like men judge everything by rapeability, but I would prefer those topics not be covered in my nerd fantasy books. Hand Row fucked around with this message at 20:24 on Jan 7, 2015 |
# ? Jan 7, 2015 20:14 |
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anilEhilated posted:I am not a fan of Bakker's writing style or a lot of decisions he makes in his books but that blogpost looks highly suspect and pretty drat fallacious. On Bakker, I would recommend the thread for his books, since it is less hyperbolic compared to the recommendation thread. I enjoyed Bakker, although sometimes he takes the whole rape thing too far. On the other hand, Erikson have very little of this (Hetan a obvious exception) which is kinda interesting considering how rape have been the result of human warfare the last 10k years. Not that I am complaining, since having a fantasy series largely free of creepy things is kinda nice.
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# ? Jan 7, 2015 20:56 |
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I think Bakker even thanks Erikson in his acknowledgements for being one of the inspirations to his book.
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# ? Jan 7, 2015 21:03 |
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Cardiac posted:On Bakker, I would recommend the thread for his books, since it is less hyperbolic compared to the recommendation thread. Erikson is on the whole a fairly decent author from a feminist standpoint, at least in the genre. Women are essentially treated as interchangeable with men and several protagonists are women without being given an essentially "woman" storyline. Having said that, I don't particularly like the Janall storyline with repeated torture, but the Hetan stuff he has written a bit about in the Malazan Reread of the Fallen: Link (Warning for both Dust of Dreams spoilers and awful torture/rape stuff) Steven Erikson posted:So, while I’m sure I’ll find some time to weigh in on this discussion thread, it’s occurred to me to put some thoughts down now, to which you can object, pick apart, or otherwise mull over now that we’ve reached this point in the reread.
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# ? Jan 7, 2015 21:54 |
I... actally really like that line of reasoning. Gives you a different context on violence depictions and why they're there.
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# ? Jan 7, 2015 22:05 |
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anilEhilated posted:I... actally really like that line of reasoning. Gives you a different context on violence depictions and why they're there. Yeah I thought it was a really well written post. I'd actually say he's one of the least awful people writing fantasy novels, not that there's a whole lot of competition in that. Though LOL at his wife not reading his poo poo.
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# ? Jan 7, 2015 22:11 |
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I like to think his wife thinks of his novels as just some nerdy thing he and his friend do.
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# ? Jan 8, 2015 00:33 |
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Ethiser posted:I like to think his wife thinks of his novels as just some nerdy thing he and his friend do. I always wondered if he shoves his success in her face periodically. "Remember honey when you said those D&D sessions were a waste a time and I needed some real hobbies??"
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# ? Jan 8, 2015 00:39 |
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Hand Row posted:I finished FoD and want more. Any recommendations? I read Abercrombie and Sanderson and the like but they aren't in the same class. Lynch was promising but his series is getting weaker. Gene Wolfe is incredible but I already read the Sun books. Try Michelle West's Sun Sword series. It has a lot of the same elements that make Malazan great(huge scope and great world-building with tons of historical, mythological & cultural backstory, Gods and Demons taking an active part in the world, all types of magic fuckery, awesome battles/action on both a large scale and small squad-based scale, all types of political intrigue & power-playing, shades-of-grey characterization for most characters and factions, and you get philosophical type poo poo in the mix too). This is probably the closest you'll get to Malazan in another fantasy series. Guy Gavriel Kay stand alone novels are well-written fantasy that hit a lot of the same emotional cues as Malazan for me. Like other people have already mentioned Bakker is great too. His world-building is right up there with Malazan's, he has a lot of philosophy and metaphysics mixed in, and his series has a ton of complexity and depth.
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# ? Jan 8, 2015 03:09 |
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I got Bakker's first - Prince of Nothing? - like two years ago based on recommendations from this and the rec thread, and while I thought it would be the oft warned of dragon rape that I'd have the most trouble with, I actually couldn't get past the hodge podge of names just in the first couple of pages. Maybe I'll give it another shot.
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# ? Jan 8, 2015 03:20 |
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Ugh, I really didn't want more Olar Ethil. She's even worse in FoD than the was in the main series. Regardless, I'm in awe of Erikson's effort in this book, and in the Malazan universe. I feel like pieces are being put in place, but they're never quite how I would have imagined, and are better for it. Really amazing stuff. Waiting for Fall of Light is gonna be tough.
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# ? Jan 8, 2015 05:48 |
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Zeitgueist posted:Erikson is on the whole a fairly decent author from a feminist standpoint, at least in the genre. Women are essentially treated as interchangeable with men and several protagonists are women without being given an essentially "woman" storyline. I have always had a soft spot for Picker and Blend, cause there is something about a couple of lesbian soldiers behaving like old married people. Zeitgueist posted:Having said that, I don't particularly like the Janall storyline with repeated torture, but the Hetan stuff he has written a bit about in the Malazan Reread of the Fallen: Link Yeah, I forgot about the Janall storyline. It is luckily mercifully short in the larger perspective. Habibi posted:I got Bakker's first - Prince of Nothing? - like two years ago based on recommendations from this and the rec thread, and while I thought it would be the oft warned of dragon rape that I'd have the most trouble with, I actually couldn't get past the hodge podge of names just in the first couple of pages. Maybe I'll give it another shot. If you can manage GoTM or LoTR, it is not worse than that. Actually less characters than Malazan and fewer storylines.
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# ? Jan 8, 2015 07:28 |
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Picker and Blend were a couple? I thought they were just (lesbian) best buds.
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# ? Jan 8, 2015 07:49 |
Habibi posted:I got Bakker's first - Prince of Nothing? - like two years ago based on recommendations from this and the rec thread, and while I thought it would be the oft warned of dragon rape that I'd have the most trouble with, I actually couldn't get past the hodge podge of names just in the first couple of pages. Maybe I'll give it another shot.
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# ? Jan 8, 2015 10:58 |
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apophenium posted:Ugh, I really didn't want more Olar Ethil. She's even worse in FoD than the was in the main series. Regardless, I'm in awe of Erikson's effort in this book, and in the Malazan universe. I feel like pieces are being put in place, but they're never quite how I would have imagined, and are better for it. Really amazing stuff. Waiting for Fall of Light is gonna be tough. Oh man. gently caress Olar Ethil. Credit to Erikson though, the whole scene with her and Gate Sergent Raskan getting his head absorbed/chopped off by her belly was some quality horror poo poo though.
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# ? Jan 9, 2015 09:42 |
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That was probably one of the most surreal things I've ever read.
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# ? Jan 9, 2015 21:44 |
Going through a re read at the moment and I can't remember whether a character in house of chains comes up again, it's the toblakai under the monastery which was possessed by the demon Kalam fights outside the whirlwind. It gets chosen by Togg and Fanderay and they start working through the wards on it but I don't remember it showing up anywhere else.
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# ? Jan 9, 2015 22:08 |
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Xemloth posted:Going through a re read at the moment and I can't remember whether a character in house of chains comes up again, it's the toblakai under the monastery which was possessed by the demon Kalam fights outside the whirlwind. It gets chosen by Togg and Fanderay and they start working through the wards on it but I don't remember it showing up anywhere else. anilEhilated posted:If I remember that correctly, the prologue isn't supposed to make any sense on a first read. It gets pretty good later on, Bakker's handling of sex aside. Cardiac posted:If you can manage GoTM or LoTR, it is not worse than that. Actually less characters than Malazan and fewer storylines. No, it is not even the sense or lack thereof, or the number of characters or whatnot. It is literally the names themselves with their multiple apostrophes, etc... And, yes, I know, this is a Malazan thread and it seems like that should be a trivial complaint, but I never had anywhere near the issue with Malazan names as I did with the ones I encountered early on in Prince. I can't really explain it. Like I said, I should probably give it another shot. Habibi fucked around with this message at 22:18 on Jan 9, 2015 |
# ? Jan 9, 2015 22:14 |
Habibi posted:Heh, I just passed that part on my audiobook reread (the fourth or fifth?) and had wondered the same thing, but I couldn't recall it ever coming up again. So infuriating I can't remember. anilEhilated fucked around with this message at 22:50 on Jan 9, 2015 |
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# ? Jan 9, 2015 22:42 |
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Habibi posted:No, it is not even the sense or lack thereof, or the number of characters or whatnot. It is literally the names themselves with their multiple apostrophes, etc... And, yes, I know, this is a Malazan thread and it seems like that should be a trivial complaint, but I never had anywhere near the issue with Malazan names as I did with the ones I encountered early on in Prince. I can't really explain it. Like I said, I should probably give it another shot. With that said the first PoN book takes some effort to get into, and like Malazan you have to start off just rolling with it.
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# ? Jan 10, 2015 01:03 |
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Bakker's worst linguistic fault is that his names don't map clearly to cultures. A linguist in the SF/F thread did a good critique.
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# ? Jan 10, 2015 02:00 |
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I really enjoy Bakker's world building and magic system but am completely enraged by his POV characters. The early chapter from Kellhus' point of view was great reading, Cnaiur was kind of interesting, every other character (especially Achamian) made the books a chore to read because they were so loving intolerable.
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# ? Jan 10, 2015 13:20 |
Really? I found myself hating everyone except Achamian. He was onestly the only character I could sympathise with.
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# ? Jan 10, 2015 15:35 |
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anilEhilated posted:Oh goddamnit, I know he shows up but can't for the life of me remember where. He helps or heals one of the good guys, maybe Kalam when they're assassinating Forkrul Assail in TCG. Or maybe Paran or Toc. Basically he comes, does his thing and the character remarks on a wolf spirit or something similar inside I the fellow. Maybe eyes. That's right. TCG spoiler It shows up in the body of an en'karal and heals Kalam after he assassinates the Forkrul Assail in the Perish camp.
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# ? Jan 10, 2015 17:03 |
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I've got up to halfway through Gardens of the Moon. I'm liking it well enough but I don't have a clue what's going on. I can't even tell if the characters I like are the characters I'm supposed to like. How long do I have read for this to all start making sense?
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# ? Jan 11, 2015 15:40 |
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Rarity posted:I've got up to halfway through Gardens of the Moon. I'm liking it well enough but I don't have a clue what's going on. I can't even tell if the characters I like are the characters I'm supposed to like. How long do I have read for this to all start making sense? you can like any character you want, it's not top down enforced
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# ? Jan 11, 2015 15:58 |
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At the end of the series, the last four pages are just a list of officially sanctioned likable characters, and it's just TOOL TOOL TOOL TOOL BLEND on repeat
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# ? Jan 11, 2015 15:59 |
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Rarity posted:I've got up to halfway through Gardens of the Moon. I'm liking it well enough but I don't have a clue what's going on. I can't even tell if the characters I like are the characters I'm supposed to like. How long do I have read for this to all start making sense? Erikson isn't Gene Wolfe; he writes like a pulp mystery author. Every time he leaves some dangling hook, some character with an unknown identity or a whispered secret the audience isn't allowed to hear, there'll be a scene down the road where you find out exactly what it was. There are a handful of mysteries that persist from book to book but for the most part he hates cliffhangers (by his own admission) and avoids that kind of thing. You can like any character you want except Kruppe, who's basically Iskaral Pusk except without any of the redeeming qualities.
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# ? Jan 11, 2015 16:07 |
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Gourd of Taste posted:At the end of the series, the last four pages are just a list of officially sanctioned likable characters, and it's just TOOL TOOL TOOL TOOL BLEND on repeat But who do I root for if they don't come with Good Guy/Bad Guy labels?
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# ? Jan 11, 2015 16:26 |
Rarity posted:But who do I root for if they don't come with Good Guy/Bad Guy labels? edit: VVV Me too! The point is, a lot of people who originally hated him stopped there - without there being any different about him, except he got a chance to explain himself a bit. anilEhilated fucked around with this message at 18:19 on Jan 11, 2015 |
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# ? Jan 11, 2015 17:39 |
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I always liked that character. gently caress yeah that character rocks.
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# ? Jan 11, 2015 17:42 |
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Spite and Envy are pretty unlikeable, especially if you make it to Forge of Darkness. Don't root for them.
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# ? Jan 11, 2015 18:30 |
Yet they both make pretty good first impressions.
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# ? Jan 11, 2015 19:18 |
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They're both pretty hilarious, honestly, and I'll always have a soft spot for (TtH) Spite visiting Envy in Darujistan and just getting so stupidly mad when she sees her house that she drops a loving meteor on it before they even talk. They're hilarious in FoD, too, but in more of a "Jesus, gently caress " kind of way.
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# ? Jan 11, 2015 19:37 |
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# ? May 30, 2024 13:50 |
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SansPants posted:That's right. TCG spoiler It shows up in the body of an en'karal and heals Kalam after he assassinates the Forkrul Assail in the Perish camp. I honestly think giant enkaral-brained toblakai guy was completely forgotten about by Erikson, just like Lorn's otataral sword Paran is holding during Memories of Ice. Also SE's wife is a lovely lady who is terrified of nerds and I apparently got drunk and really annoyed SE to the point he actively thinks I'm a huge rear end in a top hat during the house party I met him and his wife at about eight-nine years ago, at least he's only the second richest person I've personally pissed off and if Tim Burton hasn't had me assassinated yet he probably won't either (TTH spoiler) That was when I asked him if we'd see any other Hounds, like of Light, and he told me they specifically didn't exist well before TTH came out, so I wouldn't trust all his out-of-book statements.
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# ? Jan 11, 2015 21:10 |