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Literally no one itt is saying that the atrocities at CH were anything but deplorable.
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Jan 10, 2015 20:18
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Cabinet posted:You really don't get that a part of the Muslim belief is that you do not depict Mohammed in any way, do you? You cannot compare it to any other religion because no other major religion has anything like that. There's a lot of blanket interdiction on things in other major religions. http://www.shalach.org/Sin/Homosexulaity.htm quote:Homosexuality Is An ABOMINATION In The Eyes Of God!!! It's pretty clear that all God-fearing Christians need to answer God's call to murder the sodomites. I hope this helps, and that when a few brave Christian soldiers bust a gay magazine and shoot people inside, you will all join me in saying that the victims really could have been more sensitive about their blasphemous acts. There are over 2.4 billion Christians in the world, it is inevitable that those who live in the sin of homosexuality, flaunting for all to see their blasphemous offense that is an abomination in the eye of the Lord, some of them will act as God commands. Of course, it is a shame that gays have to be murdered, and no one deserves to die for this; but you have to admit that they are provocative, with their Gay Prides and the like. It's not a good idea to keep insulting the faith of billions of people just because they want to engage in gross unhygienic debauchery. I hope you will understand this appropriately, instead of replying with homophobophobic screeds.
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Jan 10, 2015 20:30
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Jan 10, 2015 20:31
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Bullfrog posted:And like it or not, being offended is also speech. Prokhor Zakharov posted:Literally no one itt is saying that the atrocities at CH were anything but deplorable.
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Jan 10, 2015 20:35
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Prokhor Zakharov posted:Literally no one itt is saying that the atrocities at CH were anything but deplorable. Ramirez said that Michael Brown's death was tragic.
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Jan 10, 2015 20:37
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I didn't say you should think how necessary it is to say something, I said you should think about how necessary it is to say something in the way you're saying it. If you're having a religiously themed strip show at Christmas to make a point about the commercialization of Christmas or how Christians try to make everything take a religious bent around Christmastime, cool. If you're having a religiously themed strip show at Christmas because it seems like a quick way to make publicity/money or because "HA, loving CHRISTIANS, EAT IT", that's not cool. A gay pride parade is also fine because increased visibility of gay people, letting people know that gay people are their neighbors and friends and family and a significant part of society, is the entire point of the event. Basically, if you're going to depict Mohammad in a cartoon, make sure depicting Mohammad is actually helping you make your point and he's not just there because you felt like using him as an easy shorthand for Islam instead of making the effort to use something else or because you're trying to attract controversy.
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Jan 10, 2015 20:39
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My opinion in regards to CH has changed somewhat ever since I went through the issue that was posted here. Sure, there's offensive stuff there, but there's also some pretty progressive opinions too. Really, I've moved more towards the opinion that the extremists targeted the CH offices not because they make terrible, racist, anti-Islamist jokes, but because they encouraged multiculturalism and that goes against the jihadist agenda. And the broad anti-Muslim reaction many people have had to it is exactly what they wanted.
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Jan 10, 2015 20:39
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Xander77 posted:Yes. Yes! I am not one of those people who are offended that someone is offended. Speak, write, protest, criticize all you want. It's when someone goes to stupid lengths to round-aboutdely equate violence with speech that things get... stupid. This is the heart of the problem here. For some reason people are equating 'people shouldn't put up pictures of Muhammad if they want to be considerate' with 'people should wear modest clothes if they don't want to be raped'. Unless someone in this thread actually is saying 'don't put up pictures of Muhammad if you don't want to die', in which case yikes, what the hell. e: the problem being people getting mad at each other here
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Jan 10, 2015 20:40
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What if you have a religiously themed strip show at christmas because you get off to hot nuns? asking for a friend.
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Jan 10, 2015 20:40
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Prokhor Zakharov posted:Literally no one itt is saying that the atrocities at CH were anything but deplorable. People are saying "Well, first I want to say that these killings were absolutely horrible and inexcusable", and then immediately following ip up with "Besides, I think what CH did was racist and/or in bad taste, and they should not have been doing that!", which not only shows that they are putting some of the blame on the paper(why else bring it up?), but also an absolute ignorance for what it stands for.
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Jan 10, 2015 20:40
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It's worth noting that in the previous controversy over political cartoons, the Jyllands-Posten one in 2005, imams had to create fake cartoons in order to provoke protests and riots.
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Jan 10, 2015 20:43
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Cartoonists Our campaign ends in just a few days If you're gonna' join, now's the time. http://igg.me/at/drybones Labels: 2015, cartoonists, Cartoons, charlie hebdo, Europe, France, Islamists, terror, terror attacks
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Jan 10, 2015 20:47
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Munin posted:Ultimately, it is about robbing these symbols of their power by showing exactly how absurd they are and turn them from common wisdom to an obviously ridiculous prejudice. While I agree w/ everything you posted I think there's something to be said about who is creating the satire and what they're using as a means to that end. Going back to the Boko Haram one, it leaves a bad taste in my mouth that a bunch of white people are lampooning another bunch of white people, and they're using a bunch of african rape victims as a prop to do so
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Jan 10, 2015 20:48
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Prokhor Zakharov posted:Literally no one itt is saying that the atrocities at CH were anything but deplorable. But it's so fun to pretend that people in this thread are, because it means we can endlessly make angry posts about a position no one actually holds! 
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Jan 10, 2015 20:49
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Xander77 posted:"Not one actually supports rape, but....". Sorry if you find this metaphor offensive. I think it's appropriate. I don't see how it is so maybe you could elaborate? Broken Cog posted:People are saying "Well, first I want to say that these killings were absolutely horrible and inexcusable", and then immediately following ip up with "Besides, I think what CH did was racist and/or in bad taste, and they should not have been doing that!", which not only shows that they are putting some of the blame on the paper(why else bring it up?), but also an absolute ignorance for what it stands for. Seeking cause and context while commenting on the limits and effectiveness of satire is not victim blaming.
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Jan 10, 2015 20:50
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JaggerMcDagger posted:Cartoonists
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Jan 10, 2015 20:50
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Prokhor Zakharov posted:Literally no one itt is saying that the atrocities at CH were anything but deplorable. It's pretty hard to not come across as victim blaming when criticizing victims of an attack right after an attack. I've also noticed that some of the criticism I'm seeing here on SA is structurally identical to arguments I've heard in rape threads. There's more nuance in this case than that, in that there's actually a semblance of loving nuance, but I don't blame people for thinking people are doing the same bullshit they do in the wake of other tragedies when it looks like the same bullshit people do in the wake of other tragedies.
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Jan 10, 2015 20:50
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JaggerMcDagger posted:Cartoonists
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Jan 10, 2015 20:54
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Prokhor Zakharov posted:Seeking cause and context while commenting on the limits and effectiveness of satire is not victim blaming. And if the context ends up being "You shouldn't make fun of muslims or islamic beliefs, because they'll kill you", what then? Because thats the end of the line of the context of these arguments and it's loving racist as hell. Every time someone makes that connection they are subconciously associating the extremists that perpetrated this attack with all muslims, and that's really loving dangerous for your average muslim here in the west.
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Jan 10, 2015 20:55
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Pilchenstein posted:gently caress me, I was absolutely sure he'd pull out all the stops hatred wise - did he call for genocide and holy war earlier in the week and I missed it? I doubt that's the last cartoon we see about this from him.
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Jan 10, 2015 20:56
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Broken Cog posted:And if the context ends up being "You shouldn't make fun of muslims or islamic beliefs, because they'll kill you", what then? I am not sure what thread you are reading but I haven't known since you started on whatever this is so eh. I would like you to address the arguments currently being made if you could tho. CharlestheHammer fucked around with this message at 21:01 on Jan 10, 2015 |
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Jan 10, 2015 20:58
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Just like Catholicism is not based soley on the bible, Islam isn't based soley on the koran.
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Jan 10, 2015 21:00
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This is what we should be shouting about and decrying from the rooftops: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/france/11332467/Paris-shootings-lead-to-firebomb-attacks-on-French-mosques.html Mosques are being fire bombed in France. The fact that this is happening and that (presumably) Christians are thereby descending to the same levels as the extremists should be a huge part of the narrative. I was just Googling this again to grab a reference link and it appals me that not a single left wing publication appeared for that search. Only the Mirror and the Telegraph apparently had articles on it. I'd love it if someone could restore my faith and point to prominent left wing coverage of these atrocities. When a Synagogue or Coptic church gets attacked they rather quickly get pushed or adopted into the popular narrative as proofs of deep seated prejudice and discrimination. Why are there no cartoons out there making this juxtaposition of hate.
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Jan 10, 2015 21:00
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Randler posted:Just like Catholicism is not based soley on the bible Or Judaism isn't based solely on the Torah.
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Jan 10, 2015 21:01
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Broken Cog posted:And if the context ends up being "You shouldn't make fun of muslims or islamic beliefs, because they'll kill you", what then? Yeah, that would be racist if that's what the context ends up being. How about the context of "is it a good idea to use racist iconography to skewer racist iconography"?
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Jan 10, 2015 21:04
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Oh look, my worst nightmare.
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Jan 10, 2015 21:04
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Broken Cog posted:And if the context ends up being "You shouldn't make fun of muslims or islamic beliefs, because they'll kill you", what then? If that's the only context you can come up with then you're stupid as gently caress and yeah probably racist.
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Jan 10, 2015 21:06
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pussy riot police posted:Yeah, that would be racist if that's what the context ends up being. How about the context of "is it a good idea to use racist iconography to skewer racist iconography"? Yes, but we're talking about a bloody massacre, that's the context of this entire event. If this was just some intellectual blowback against Charlie Hebdo for what they did, that would be entirely fine, that's expected from a civilised society. Broken Cog fucked around with this message at 21:13 on Jan 10, 2015 |
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Jan 10, 2015 21:06
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Ruben Bolling joins this massive argument.JaggerMcDagger posted:Cartoonists Funny how it kind of looks like a swastika landscape at a glance.
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Jan 10, 2015 21:07
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Prokhor Zakharov posted:If that's the only context you can come up with then you're stupid as gently caress and yeah probably racist. To be fair he is just making poo poo up to try and dominate the moral highground. Not a new nor an effective one, but used by nearly everyone.
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Jan 10, 2015 21:08
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The most appropriate cartoon at the moment: 1More bad news, guys...  2 3Gentlemen: Start your fuckyou.gifs  4The gently caress?  5Missing the cigarette and baguette.  6This is Beeler's most wrong cartoon.  7He is scary, so he has that point right.  8Maybe the print is just smaller.
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Jan 10, 2015 21:08
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Stefu posted:Can someone put that effortpost on what a Charlie Hebdo number contains somewhere were it can be also seen by other people? This is the Charlie Hebdo translation effort post: http://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3691509&userid=0&perpage=40&pagenumber=48#post439990492
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Jan 10, 2015 21:08
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This is good.
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Jan 10, 2015 21:10
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 (1)You see, the thug is white, so it isn't racist. Also, that cop is striking a fierce pose.  (2)I'm not sure Liccar understands je suis Charlie.
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Jan 10, 2015 21:11
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Trick question: the guy on the left is George Zimmerman.
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Jan 10, 2015 21:12
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Internet Webguy posted:The most appropriate cartoon at the moment: This is tragic but true. Also maybe the CH effortpost should be linked in the OP for easy access, it's probably the most significant political cartooning event since these threads inception.
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Jan 10, 2015 21:12
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Yeah, this is probably the best analysis of the whole situation. He also seems to get the point I was trying to make across much better than I ever could. Edit: quote:It was not the Muslim community that killed those twelve people, it was two gunmen. I don't know how outraged Muslims were at Charlie Hebdo, but I would imagine their responses would be as greatly varied as they are irrelevant to the murders. Broken Cog fucked around with this message at 21:17 on Jan 10, 2015 |
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Jan 10, 2015 21:12
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Internet Webguy posted:The most appropriate cartoon at the moment:
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Jan 10, 2015 21:15
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 This made me laugh and should not be lost in the shuffle.
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Jan 10, 2015 21:16
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Internet Webguy posted:
THE DEAD MAN YOU'RE PUTTING WORDS IN THE MOUTH OF WAS A MUSLIM YOU gently caress
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Jan 10, 2015 21:16
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