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Is there a good intermediate step between "cheap chinese electric" and "scale 2-stroke gas"? I've been wanting to get something bigger and heavier that's not quite so twitchy on the controls and has longer flight time. Gas 2 stroke seems to be the answer, but most everything seems to run just a little South of a grand and geared towards "EXTREME 3D NITRO!" What's a good thing to buy if one wanted to practice hovering at ground level for 30 minutes at a time?
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Jan 11, 2015 05:41
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Erwin posted:Ordering the right parts is by far the hardest part about building a quadcopter it seems. Here's some problems I've run into so far, in case it helps someone: I ran into similar things when I started, and I'm even a hardware guy with a workshop. But the last RC stuff I had ever done was 20+ years ago and the RC world is full of these little "institutional knowledge" things that no one considers worth mentioning. Like the fact that buying Chinese parts or assemblies assumes not to assume there are any extras (or even instructions) whatsoever, etc. It is very frustrating to have time to sit down and get into things only to discover 10-15 minutes in that making a second shopping list is as far as you can get. But that's life, and your post probably will help some people. e: I once googled the difference between Mode 1 and Mode 2 because I didn't know poo poo. First google result was a link to some RC forum thread where someone also asked the exact same thing. It was mainly people going all  this is basic knowledge and if you have to ask this, you're in over your head learn to use google GODSome kind soul did provide the answer buried in that discussion, but it was still funny for research to point me to a thread telling me to research. It also was an example of how easy it is to take basic knowledge for granted. The Eyes Have It fucked around with this message at 11:15 on Jan 11, 2015 |
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Jan 11, 2015 11:07
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Nerobro posted:You're way in over your head. Yes, I'm probably in over my head, but I'll be fine. The fact that I'm impatient is what makes me annoyed by this. However, it's unfair to say that I dove in without preparation. I bought a Hubsan X4 and flew it until I can fly from any orientation and am very comfortable with it. I watched a million build videos on youtube. I read a bunch of build guides, getting started guides, and referenced a bunch of build lists. I asked questions in this thread. I spent for the Naza instead of a Naze32 so I wouldn't have as many issues janitoring the thing over USB (plus the full Naze32 is out of stock everywhere). The one big mistake I made was limiting myself to what's in the US warehouses on Hobbyking, or I might have seen the frame on the left recommended. But I did my due diligence and still came up short on the incidentals. Which makes sense, because a person who makes a build video for youtube is a person who has built several quads already and has all the little plugs and glue and whatnot, and doesn't think to mention that. In the end I live in an Amazon Prime world, and I'm like a giddy impatient kid waiting for my new toys and decided to vent.
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Jan 11, 2015 16:39
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Erwin posted:In the end I live in an Amazon Prime world, and I'm like a giddy impatient kid waiting for my new toys and decided to vent. A lot of multi-copter stuff (not all, certainly,) is available on prime. Sometimes it's a dollar or two more, but it's here in two days, instead of someday in the distant future, and you have the security and pleasant Amazon person on the other end of the phone/email with Prime, if you need to return something. I get all my replacement wear parts (props, arms, etc,) and even motors through Prime. I ended up buying all my FPV gear through non-prime Amazon vendors as well, for similar reasons. I still end up ordering from HK sometimes, but I make sure to cross shop Amazon. (Amazon has loving ruined me. I'm impatient, and I no longer go to stores.)
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Jan 11, 2015 17:53
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on the left posted:I had these exact same problems when I started out. To fix your problems: XT60's aren't great connectors. At least they're easy on the fingers. I really do push people in different directions. Anderson Powerpoles are still awesome, if bulky for say, 250 class helis. And they're designed by a company who ships 250 class quadcopters with JST plugs. Seriously. JST for the battery on a 250 class quadcopter. Bullet connectors are poo poo. Every thing about them is poo poo. Conductor area, conductor contact reliability, and the fact that that they're not positively engaged are all problems. If you're ever in a situation where you could damage your motors, escs, or PDB and a bullet connector saved you, you are already hosed. Not to mention, most bullet connectors (where, in spite of their lovely contact area) are stiff enough that you'll damage windings in the motor, and likely tear pads off of pcbs regardless. In the end, you're not saving anything, just adding weight, and reducing power delivered to your motors. And then you're adding another point of failure. Unless I'm missing something really big about those connectors. Timecop is also one of those "GAAAAwd, you don't know this already? well you don't deserve to know."
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Jan 11, 2015 18:28
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Nerobro posted:Timecop is also one of those "GAAAAwd, you don't know this already? well you don't deserve to know." No offense, but didn't you do exactly the same thing a few posts up?
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Jan 11, 2015 19:02
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Erwin posted:Yes, I'm probably in over my head, but I'll be fine. The fact that I'm impatient is what makes me annoyed by this. However, it's unfair to say that I dove in without preparation. I bought a Hubsan X4 and flew it until I can fly from any orientation and am very comfortable with it. I watched a million build videos on youtube. I read a bunch of build guides, getting started guides, and referenced a bunch of build lists. I asked questions in this thread. I spent for the Naza instead of a Naze32 so I wouldn't have as many issues janitoring the thing over USB (plus the full Naze32 is out of stock everywhere). You've kind of hit the nail on the head here, and this situation means the barrier to entry for anything that isn't "buy & fly" is still actually pretty high. A person who reads and plans & tries to dot all the i's and cross all the t's STILL isn't going to have all their need first time around. But multirotors is a complex hobby with tech that moves quickly, to some extent it's inevitable. You do sound like you'll be fine though  I personally would go for an all-included-build-it-yourself kit package for the same reason I want a 3D printer to "just work". I do understand the underlying tech and am fine with doing my own servicing if needed, etc. I just want to spend my limited time on something other than the building and tweaking/tuning. For some people the building (or re-building) and constant fiddling or obsessive tuning is the fun part. That's fine but just not the part I want to spend my time on if I have a choice.
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Jan 11, 2015 20:27
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Nerobro posted:XT60's aren't great connectors. At least they're easy on the fingers. I really do push people in different directions. Anderson Powerpoles are still awesome, if bulky for say, 250 class helis. And they're designed by a company who ships 250 class quadcopters with JST plugs. Seriously. JST for the battery on a 250 class quadcopter. Over the life of your hobby, the savings on batteries alone is worth it. Nerobro posted:Bullet connectors are poo poo. Every thing about them is poo poo. Conductor area, conductor contact reliability, and the fact that that they're not positively engaged are all problems. Plus if you're not using bullets on your motors you'll run into one hell of a pain reversing the inevitable polarity screwups. Mister Sinewave posted:You've kind of hit the nail on the head here, and this situation means the barrier to entry for anything that isn't "buy & fly" is still actually pretty high. A person who reads and plans & tries to dot all the i's and cross all the t's STILL isn't going to have all their need first time around. But multirotors is a complex hobby with tech that moves quickly, to some extent it's inevitable. BabelFish fucked around with this message at 21:53 on Jan 11, 2015 |
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Jan 11, 2015 21:50
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BabelFish posted:This, the first time I built a quad I had two people with years of experience look over the list, and I still had to make a second order for things I'd missed. It's really common. I'm in the process of making a second order, and I know I'm going to need at least one or two more orders. Just out of curiosity, what awg cable is most common on a quad? I'm gonna use some 18awg for power, but what about servo/data/etc?
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Jan 12, 2015 00:49
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Odette posted:I'm in the process of making a second order, and I know I'm going to need at least one or two more orders. 24 gauge is enough for most servos. You can go 26 gauge for data, but that means buying more types of cable...
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Jan 12, 2015 01:06
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I've heard that shielded CAT6 cable is awesome for all sorts of RC purposes. It's already got the twisted pairs to cut down on interference, and you can usually find it for pretty cheap at data and electrical supply places.
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Jan 12, 2015 01:17
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CrazyLittle posted:No offense, but didn't you do exactly the same thing a few posts up? Nope. Several times I apologized for the situation he was in, then went and told him what's expected of him as someone getting into hobby grade r/c. I also explained why the reviews of the products seemed so different from his experience. And finished it off with yet another apology. Hopefully I left him feeling that he's not stupid for what he's running in to. If I didn't, I failed and I'm sorry. BabelFish posted:People use XT60 because the other connectors require you pay a commission to the creator. the XT60 design was explicitly developed in the public domain. BabelFish posted:Sure, if you want the absolute best possible contact, don't use bullet connectors, but if you're going to be replacing parts (and lets be fair, you'll replace a lot of parts at the start) there's a million other things in a quad that are far more likely to fail than a properly constructed, seated, and secured bullet connector. I think soldering might well be faster than dealing with a tight set of bullet connectors. At least two sets of bullet connectors have needed me to crush them with a set of pliars to get them to be inserted at all. When I do my setups, I tend to solder up motor leads randomly, check their rotation, and then resolder. That took me about a minute to do when I had three motors turning the wrong way. I think the only thing I"d want to be able to address in the field is a motor... I'll give you that bullet connectors make that a bit easier. ... Now I want to do a "better" motor connector. clamping connector? Hmmpf. I think it could even be 3d printed.
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Jan 12, 2015 01:48
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BabelFish posted:Plus if you're not using bullets on your motors you'll run into one hell of a pain reversing the inevitable polarity screwups. I like bullet connectors, but if you are flashing SimonK/BLHeli like you should, it's trivial to upload a reverse firmware. If you flash correctly the first time, you can use the bootloader that allows you to use a USB-Servo linker.
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Jan 12, 2015 02:13
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After having watched https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6btEFJJD4_o i kinda want some sort of RTF quad that can go into rate mode and not have auto level. what are my options here? i currently own a dromida kodo, a Revell nano quad and a Syma x5c but neither of those have the ability to disable autolevel.
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Jan 12, 2015 09:47
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The blade nano allows rate mode and has a spektrum rx. You could even get the fpv version.
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Jan 12, 2015 09:54
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on the left posted:The blade nano allows rate mode and has a spektrum rx. You could even get the fpv version. yeah i don't think i'd want to spring for the FPV version just yet. i did see a review of that on flitetest last night. If i got a blade nano QX, i'd be able to bind it with something like the orangeRX system, right? it uses dsm2 from what i can see.
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Jan 12, 2015 12:45
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Frobbe posted:yeah i don't think i'd want to spring for the FPV version just yet. i did see a review of that on flitetest last night. Yes, it will bind to a OrangeTX.
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Jan 12, 2015 16:07
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That's cool, let's seque right into a question about which radio system to actually get. I'm looking at orangeRX or Turnigy 9xr, with a hobbyking 6ch system as a backup/random farting around thing. i don't own any other fancy controllers so whatever i go with will be the system i stick with.
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Jan 12, 2015 17:01
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Go 9xr. That lets you pop in modules for whatever radio you like. Futaba FSSS, 433mhz Long Range, Spectrum with an OrangeTX module.. And the software is deeply customizable.
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Jan 12, 2015 17:08
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Colorado RC flyers of all types! Come to the Capitol tomorrow at 2pm if possible! http://fpvlab.com/forums/showthread.php?36754-PROPOSED-BILL-WOULD-BAN-ALL-RC-AIRCRAFT-IN-COLORADO prelator posted:Heads up guys, there is apparently another drone bill going to be introduced in the Colorado State Senate by Senators Linda Newell and Kevin Lundberg. According Vic Moss, it mainly deals with how law enforcement will be allowed to use UAV's, but part of the bill is EXTREMELY troubling. It states, "If a person or entity wants to use a UAV for for recreational or commercial use or for UAV research, the person must obtain an experimental airworthiness certificate or certificate of waiver or authorization from the FAA."
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Jan 12, 2015 18:05
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Nerobro posted:
I've never had any issues like that and have used a variety of sizes. Some of them are tight, for sure, but never had to resort to pliers.
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Jan 12, 2015 18:48
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Is there any way of working out the maximum current carrying capacity of wires with various AWGs? There's so much conflicting information out there that it isn't funny.
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Jan 12, 2015 22:12
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Odette posted:Is there any way of working out the maximum current carrying capacity of wires with various AWGs? There's so much conflicting information out there that it isn't funny. There are lots of ways. Most of them are not simple. It really depends on what you're trying to control. If you want to control weight, you're going to size the wire for the smallest size that won't heat up to the point it melts itself. If you're trying to control for temperature, you're going to calculate the power drop across the wire, and use that to calculate how warm the wire will get. If you're trying to control for least wasted energy, you're going to size the wires for whatever size you feel meets your desired resistance spec. You can pump lots, and lots, of current across small wires, as long as the durations are short. Most wire will tell you it's maximum current carrying capacity as a bare wire, and as part of a bundle.
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Jan 12, 2015 22:37
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I got a cool little quadcopter gift for christmas and its really got me wanting to expand into something more robust but I'm not really sure on what I should be paying/avoiding, and poo poo. While I especially want to get into using ground control stuff to automate flight paths and utilizing gps for stuff, I'd also want the capability to transmit the camera feed live and/or process feed data onboard and send results back to gc for image recognition stuff. whats the minimum kind of money am I looking at here for something complete that can handle these tasks? Also, are there charging station shits where you can just have your copter fly onto it and charge up? I dont have problems soldering
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Jan 13, 2015 00:20
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Feral Integral posted:I got a cool little quadcopter gift for christmas and its really got me wanting to expand into something more robust but I'm not really sure on what I should be paying/avoiding, and poo poo. While I especially want to get into using ground control stuff to automate flight paths and utilizing gps for stuff, I'd also want the capability to transmit the camera feed live and/or process feed data onboard and send results back to gc for image recognition stuff. whats the minimum kind of money am I looking at here for something complete that can handle these tasks? I'd guess around $600 would be the absolute min including transmitter, battery charger, etc. This is if you are building it from scratch, so it would take a good amount of work too. Feral Integral posted:Also, are there charging station shits where you can just have your copter fly onto it and charge up? That would be awesome, but chances are you are going to want to fly with multiple batteries and just swap them out. Also it takes about an hour to properly charge a LiPo at 1C, so you might as well just pull the battery off the multirotor and plug it into the charger.
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Jan 13, 2015 00:28
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Odette posted:Is there any way of working out the maximum current carrying capacity of wires with various AWGs? There's so much conflicting information out there that it isn't funny. Unless I misunderstand you, go by the smallest wire in the series. The smaller wire in a series will always be forced to choke down what the thicker wires more efficiently handle. Ideally the wires in your system should not be of different gauges, but poo poo we're talking about hobby stuff here subject to occasional use - not wiring a house & asking for a long-term fire hazard because the thick wires suddenly become thin wires halfway on their way to the outlet and will heat up every time the toaster is used.
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Jan 13, 2015 00:48
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http://youtu.be/1TQQcBWV6Vs I've gotta have a laugh at this guy. States in the description it was acting strange at take off the last couple flights, but that doesn't stop him from flying in a reasonably confined location with a human being not behind him. I stated earlier in this thread it's a matter of time before someone is going to be seriously injured with an Inspire1 because it's cost makes the ease of entry available for the common folk. 
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Jan 13, 2015 00:48
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Feral Integral posted:I got a cool little quadcopter gift for christmas and its really got me wanting to expand into something more robust but I'm not really sure on what I should be paying/avoiding, and poo poo. While I especially want to get into using ground control stuff to automate flight paths and utilizing gps for stuff, I'd also want the capability to transmit the camera feed live and/or process feed data onboard and send results back to gc for image recognition stuff. whats the minimum kind of money am I looking at here for something complete that can handle these tasks? You're going to need to spend a couple hundred at least on a flight controller that can do the waypointing. The most common plug and play solution I see for that is this but they're expensive as heck. As an aside. For people who are just getting into the hobby and want a super cheap beater quad to learn on but don't mind some construction might I suggest the ElectroHub from Flite Test. They've got multiple people who will ship you a full electronics package, videos on their website going through the construction, and you can get the whole thing for under $200. Crash it and snap an arm? They're available at any lumber store for a few bucks. BabelFish fucked around with this message at 02:03 on Jan 13, 2015 |
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Jan 13, 2015 01:58
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BabelFish posted:You're going to need to spend a couple hundred at least on a flight controller that can do the waypointing. The most common plug and play solution I see for that is this but they're expensive as heck. You can get an apm for around $70 that can do full waypoints. Runs the same software as the pixhawk. At this stage there are very few features that are pixhawk only. http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/__56052__HKPilot_Mega_2_7_Flight_Controller_USB_GYRO_ACC_MAG_BARO.html You need a gps though so thats another $20 - 30.
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Jan 13, 2015 02:28
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mashed_penguin posted:You can get an apm for around $70 that can do full waypoints. Runs the same software as the pixhawk. At this stage there are very few features that are pixhawk only. http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/__56052__HKPilot_Mega_2_7_Flight_Controller_USB_GYRO_ACC_MAG_BARO.html You need a gps though so thats another $20 - 30. I stand corrected!
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Jan 13, 2015 02:33
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I wrote a bit of a review on the KK 5.5 board. http://realtinker.blogspot.com/2015/01/the-kk-55-board-five-point-five-you-say.html KK 5.5 board. Five point five you say? Flying quadcopters is a tricky business. They take a lot of math, and fast acting controllers to keep them airborne. One of the early common boards, is the KK board. Trying to cheap out while buying my second flight controller, I was looking at the alternate boards on HobbyKing. They had this blue flight controller...  Which I have since learned was, or is, a clone of the original KK board. It's also known as the "black" board. This board, in particular, has a ATMega 328 on board. And as opposed to what you'll find in a multiwii based setup, three separate gyroscopes. Sadly, there are no accelerometers, so the board has no way of figuring out which direction is down. The board doesn't support CPPM. It doesn't know what horizon mode it. The board's forward direction can not be changed. It can't be programmed without an ICSP programmer. However, it does allow for some onboard tuning. There's no button on the board, so "on boot options" are commanded via the transmitter, and the three pots on the board. By swinging a pot to the full left position, you command the board to enter gyro reversing mode. The board does have a built in arming function, With the throttle at low, you swing the rudder full right, or left, to disarm, or arm. When armed a red light shows on the board. So what does the board do? You might ask. Well it supports about a dozen mulitcopter configurations, with one to eight motors, some stacked, some not, and some stabilized by servos. It's really quite the resume. But no mater what you fly, it will be in acro mode, all the time. Because the KK doesn't know what way is down. The default configuration is the "plus" configuration. With one prop leading, as opposed to the usual x configuration most of us are accustomed to flying. The only way to change that setting, is by flashing new firmware on the board. These boards retail for $12-16. I can't imagine a situation where this board would be preferable to a Flip, or Naze. If you have an unending, burning desire to fly one of these, be sure to pick up a package that also gets you a ICSP programmer. You should also be buying a set of at four servo extensions so you can wire up the receiver to the FCS. I think the nicest thing about this board, is that the channels are well labeled. Unlike the Flip, KK2, or Naze32. Sadly, the only lesson to be taken from this, is that quadcopter FCS technology has really advanced. The KK 5.5 is a relic. A cheap relic, but for $4 more, you can get a Flip based board, so the decision isn't a difficult one.
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Jan 13, 2015 09:46
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Didn't the early boards use the temp difference between sides to determine "up"?
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Jan 13, 2015 10:17
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It should also be noted that you can get a cc3d for $15 from Banggood.
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Jan 13, 2015 14:10
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on the left posted:Didn't the early boards use the temp difference between sides to determine "up"? I don't think so. I've never seen that.. at least as "contact thermometers." The really early flight stabilization systems used a ring of sensors to determine "dark" and "light" so they could get a general read on "up". But that's 1998 vintage great planes stuff. Astronaut Jones posted:It should also be noted that you can get a cc3d for $15 from Banggood. Rest assured, I will be purchasing and reviewing one of those too. :-)
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Jan 13, 2015 15:22
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My first quad build had one of those boards (I screwed up and thought I was buying the most recent version of the KK board, because KK 5.5 must be better than KK2 right?  ). Flew it maybe twice, it scared the crap out of me because I couldn't figure out how to tune it to be sane (with the experience I have now it might be doable, but it was way too much for me at first...). The KK2 is much friendlier, although auto level on mine is a bit iffy.
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Jan 13, 2015 23:44
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Somewhat Heroic posted:http://youtu.be/1TQQcBWV6Vs gently caress me, that's hilarious. That case sounds like luser error, "oh it's been acting strange, it's OK to continue using!"  Has anyone ordered from myrcmart? I placed an order a few days ago and I haven't heard back from them apart from automated "processing order" emails. Just wondering how good their service is.
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Jan 14, 2015 04:36
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Odette posted:gently caress me, that's hilarious. That case sounds like luser error, "oh it's been acting strange, it's OK to continue using!" My favorite part of this video is that Philip Bloom commented on it last night to say something along the lines of "uhh, you can hear it saying a waypoint has been accepted, are you sure you didn't have it set up for a flight path" on a completely unrelated note, I'm picking up my Inspire in the morning 
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Jan 14, 2015 05:17
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Vitamin J posted:Colorado RC flyers of all types! Come to the Capitol tomorrow at 2pm if possible! Good news! The bill is going back for major rewrite and should be much more reasonable the second time around. Summaries here: http://fpvlab.com/forums/showthread.php?36754-PROPOSED-BILL-WOULD-BAN-ALL-RC-AIRCRAFT-IN-COLORADO&p=635860&viewfull=1#post635860
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Jan 14, 2015 06:17
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Vitamin J posted:Good news! The bill is going back for major rewrite and should be much more reasonable the second time around. Summaries here: Thats great. It is also good to see you colorado guys turning up to have your say. On the topic of fpvlab threads I'm slowly putting my Z3 together so if anyone is interested in folowing me slowly build it you can take a look here. http://fpvlab.com/forums/showthread.php?36678-My-Z3-build I need to track down a lamination iron soon as I'm not too far off of starting on that.
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Jan 14, 2015 07:39
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I tried to get my BO-105 flying again last night. I replaced the A gear... and my daughter stripped the gear before I had ever spun up the motor. And then broke the ball on a tail grip. ... not a good night. So to feel better, I put six packs through my Nano CPX (I need to do soemthing to tame that thing down, or fly outside more..) and a pack through my MCPx. mashed_penguin posted:On the topic of fpvlab threads I'm slowly putting my Z3 together so if anyone is interested in folowing me slowly build it you can take a look here. http://fpvlab.com/forums/showthread.php?36678-My-Z3-build That's a really nice build. You can do lamination iorining with your normal household iron. At least if you're using lamination plastic for doing things like ID's and signs. I have a 5' wingspan foamie in the garage that I should make into a FPV rig. I don't even know what motor to put on it. I wonder if one of my quadcopter motors would do..
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Jan 14, 2015 18:04
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