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Boten Anna posted:This is also why the releasing of Tesla's patents could possibly end up being a boon, as there can be standard battery pack interfaces and cooling mechanisms, so that the car's system isn't dealing with the batteries on such a low level to the degree they are now. That's not to say it's terribly likely, however, as forced obsolescence and proprietary lockdowns are in the best interest of car manufacturers, so sadly all we'll probably get out of it is standardized fast charging ports as having standard EV charging infrastructure is important to selling more EVs. Cooling has to be at a "low level" since it's all about the engineering of the packs/cells and how it interacts with where they're installed and how they're programmed, especially if we're talking non-liquid cooled batteries. This isn't just some software thing and it's something where you might find some weird interactions due to the complexity of the system.
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Jan 6, 2015 03:35
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Introducting the Chevrolet Bolt. (yes, Bolt)  quote:The rumored Bolt concept car broke cover today in Detroit, Chevrolet's big bet on an all-electric sedan. http://www.theverge.com/2015/1/12/7530821/this-is-the-chevrolet-bolt Other places I've seen mention of adjustable ride height as well. Looks pretty good all in all.
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Jan 12, 2015 16:19
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It's hideous but those are really nice numbers.
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Jan 12, 2015 16:26
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I was expecting worse visuals actually, I could live with that. The overall lines are good, the visibility seems to be great, the only weird thing is the front end. Really don't know what they're trying to do with 2-3 different thin grilles. And knowing how the Volt concept vs the Volt on sale turned out, this is a realistic preview of the street ready Bolt:
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Jan 12, 2015 16:34
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Advent Horizon posted:It should be noted that the current-production battery chemistry is supposed to be much better in hot weather. I have no experience with either the new battery or hot weather but I don't notice any degradation after 15 months and 20,000 miles. That's not to say it hasn't, just that I can't tell the difference. I noticed a dramatic reduction in range with winter, more like 25%. Some of it is obvious -- the increased rolling resistance from the winter tyres, the increased mass of their rims, and the power draw of climate control. Something I wasn't expecting, though, was that regenerative braking became nearly useless. Apparently there's a limit to how fast it can charge the battery when it's cold, so it went from braking at 30kW in the summer to 10kW at -20°. That apparently makes a big difference in how much power my commute needs, and the 25km commute isn't long enough for the battery to really warm up.
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Jan 12, 2015 17:38
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I find it mildly troubling that so much of that Bolt announcement was devoted to "millenials like this stuff, right?" distractions rather than talking about the car as a car. A mention of a rumoured range and a price, and then nothing but smartphones and screens bullshit. Why is the marketing concentrating so hard on the drains on electrical power instead of the source of it? Is Chevy involved in Tesla's battery giga-factory (whatever they're calling it)? Has Chevy developed an interesting new power-management system? What kind of performance - beyond just range - can we expect from this little urban runabout?
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Jan 12, 2015 18:23
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Why did they pick a name that is indistinguishable from their other EV? Did their marketing guy have a stroke or something? Couldn't they at least call it the Amp or some other dumb parallelism that doesn't rhyme?
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Jan 12, 2015 18:37
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ExecuDork posted:Why is the marketing concentrating so hard on the drains on electrical power instead of the source of it? Is Chevy involved in Tesla's battery giga-factory (whatever they're calling it)? Has Chevy developed an interesting new power-management system? What kind of performance - beyond just range - can we expect from this little urban runabout? That kind of stuff doesn't draw tech-blogger headlines. If there is no touchscreen and no apps then no one gives a poo poo.
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Jan 12, 2015 18:41
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I'm surprised at how often my Volt kicks on the engine when it's really cold out (sub 20°F) even when I have a full charge. I gather it has to do with being more efficient for climate control, but I feel like I should be able to force EV only if I want to. Also cold temps murder battery range. I've lost an easy 10 miles since the first freeze. It comes back on warm days, so it's not like the heat+leaf issue.
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Jan 12, 2015 20:32
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PerniciousKnid posted:Why did they pick a name that is indistinguishable from their other EV? Did their marketing guy have a stroke or something? Couldn't they at least call it the Amp or some other dumb parallelism that doesn't rhyme? Those are great names. Btw, next year they will be introducing an EV SUV called the Jolt!
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Jan 12, 2015 20:38
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Looking forward to the convertible called the Molt.
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Jan 12, 2015 20:39
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Doesn't the volt use engine heat for cabin heating? They told me the car had to start to warm up in winter. Also calling it now the Bolt will have 150 mile range and be 35K. I am surprised they didn't predict 350 mile range and $18k on vaporware car.
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Jan 12, 2015 20:39
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Also since the Bolt is so tall how long until it gets Rolt?
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Jan 12, 2015 20:42
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Hillridge posted:I'm surprised at how often my Volt kicks on the engine when it's really cold out (sub 20°F) even when I have a full charge. I gather it has to do with being more efficient for climate control, but I feel like I should be able to force EV only if I want to. Also cold temps murder battery range. I've lost an easy 10 miles since the first freeze. It comes back on warm days, so it's not like the heat+leaf issue. Actually it's because since the car doesn't know how far you are going, so it runs the generator to keep the fluids from turing to sludge just in case you decide to drive 400 miles. I agree there should be an EV only mode switch, but GM doesn't want people to screw themselves and end up stranded.
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Jan 12, 2015 20:52
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The suv would be the dolt not jolt.
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Jan 12, 2015 20:57
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"More than" 200 is of course at 100% battery and entirely downhill, but that's still decent. The Leaf is now claiming 126 miles , having moved away from the former 80% charging numbers (not terribly far from truth - my two year old leaf will read 118 on the guess-o-meter at 100% depending on all sorts of factors), so no matter how you cut things and assume fudge margins, that's a good boost. It's probably closer to 33% better than the Leaf, but if they really can pull 50% better distance, I'd be interested in giving it a peek when my Leaf Lease is up next year. "Around 30k" is going to mean starting at 33k most likely though, which is a small jump over the Leaf, so who knows.
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Jan 13, 2015 01:44
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I've read that $30k price is also after federal rebates, so closer to $40k is the actual price.
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Jan 13, 2015 01:46
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drat. If the Model 3 looks only half as good as the Model S it will still be 1000x better than the Bolt. Squarely in BMW i3 boxy-ugly territory.
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Jan 13, 2015 03:33
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Ola posted:Introducting the Chevrolet Bolt. (yes, Bolt) Australian designed, ironically enough, at the Holden HQ which is closing down in two years (design studio will remain operating though) and that picture is taken almost across the road from the Holden engine plant. I actually drove past the holden factory on Saturday and noticed a lone Volt charger out in the forecourt, I wonder how much use it actually gets... probably none considering it is surrounded by bollards.
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Jan 13, 2015 04:19
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Hillridge posted:I'm surprised at how often my Volt kicks on the engine when it's really cold out (sub 20°F) even when I have a full charge. I gather it has to do with being more efficient for climate control, but I feel like I should be able to force EV only if I want to. Also cold temps murder battery range. I've lost an easy 10 miles since the first freeze. It comes back on warm days, so it's not like the heat+leaf issue. On 2013s and on, there's a setting in vehicle options for engine assisted heating. I don't think you can turn it completely off, but you at least have some control over it. I just wish they'd give us the option to turn off the slow speed creep "feature." If I want the godamned car to move, I have a pedal for that. 
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Jan 13, 2015 13:05
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MrYenko posted:I just wish they'd give us the option to turn off the slow speed creep "feature." If I want the godamned car to move, I have a pedal for that. No poo poo. At least some get it better than others - neither the Prius nor the Leaf felt unusual to me, but the i8 felt like it was trying to launch over the parking end stop. Not a good feeling in a car that expensive.
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Jan 13, 2015 18:20
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ExecuDork posted:I find it mildly troubling that so much of that Bolt announcement was devoted to "millenials like this stuff, right?" distractions rather than talking about the car as a car. A mention of a rumoured range and a price, and then nothing but smartphones and screens bullshit. Apparently because that's what current focus groups say they are interested in. Power, handling, range, and all other driving technologies come second to "how well does it integrate with my smartphone?" Millennials do like this stuff so that's what they're building towards.
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Jan 13, 2015 21:18
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It's probably because those of us millenials saving enough money to buy a car by skimping on the smartphone contract bullshit have already done so. Now they need to sell flashy to rope in everybody else once banks convince the masses that 8 year leases are totally normal.
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Jan 14, 2015 03:39
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Elon Musk says the Model 3 will be $35k before federal rebates - http://jalopnik.com/elon-musk-says-model-3-will-cost-35-000-before-incent-1679351127 That's going to piss off Chevy a bit when they just announced the Bolt at $30k after rebates. As long as Tesla doesn't make the Model 3 look like absolute garbage I can't picture too many people choosing the Bolt over the Model 3. I'm looking forward to the Model 3.
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Jan 14, 2015 13:30
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NitroSpazzz posted:Elon Musk says the Model 3 will be $35k before federal rebates - http://jalopnik.com/elon-musk-says-model-3-will-cost-35-000-before-incent-1679351127 That's going to piss off Chevy a bit when they just announced the Bolt at $30k after rebates. As long as Tesla doesn't make the Model 3 look like absolute garbage I can't picture too many people choosing the Bolt over the Model 3. I'm looking forward to the Model 3. I think I've said before that if they make good all the promises they've made thus far, and I think they will, I'll be trading my Volt in on a Model 3.
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Jan 14, 2015 14:24
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NitroSpazzz posted:Elon Musk says the Model 3 will be $35k before federal rebates - http://jalopnik.com/elon-musk-says-model-3-will-cost-35-000-before-incent-1679351127 That's going to piss off Chevy a bit when they just announced the Bolt at $30k after rebates. As long as Tesla doesn't make the Model 3 look like absolute garbage I can't picture too many people choosing the Bolt over the Model 3. I'm looking forward to the Model 3. The question is, when will it actually be released. If the model X is anything to judge by, we may see the model 3 by 2020.
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Jan 14, 2015 15:03
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That's the main thing I'm worried about as well. I did a standard 3 year lease on my Volt, which should time perfectly with the Model 3 release so long as it's on schedule or may be a few months behind. MrYenko posted:On 2013s and on, there's a setting in vehicle options for engine assisted heating. I don't think you can turn it completely off, but you at least have some control over it. The options for engine assisted heat are "turn on when cold" or "turn on when very cold" I actually had the low gas alert go off this morning and it took me a second to figure out what it was. I'm not stopping for gas on the way home, so I may find out the hard way if it'll drive on pure electric in the cold after it runs out of gas.
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Jan 14, 2015 15:08
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Hillridge posted:The options for engine assisted heat are "turn on when cold" or "turn on when very cold" Ah. I set mine to the ultra-low setting, just in case it ever goes below 40°F.  Hillridge posted:I actually had the low gas alert go off this morning and it took me a second to figure out what it was. I'm not stopping for gas on the way home, so I may find out the hard way if it'll drive on pure electric in the cold after it runs out of gas. It will. In fact, it will go into limp mode and give you a few extra miles past the normal battery-only range, so you can try to make a fuel station. Also, IIRC, the low fuel warning is at ~40 miles of fuel range remaining, so you still have a reasonable (~1 gallon) amount of fuel left. Frustratingly, when you get into the low-fuel range, it stops giving you a range readout, and just says "LOW" in the range display, which is dumb. My other GM cars (06 GTO and 08 Z06) will keep counting down to zero, which I prefer.
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Jan 14, 2015 15:22
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angryhampster posted:The question is, when will it actually be released. If the model X is anything to judge by, we may see the model 3 by 2020. I still plan on taking a leaf, volt and prius for a test drive to see how they are but at this point I have limited interest in owning one despite them being ideal for my commute and general use. NitroSpazzz fucked around with this message at 15:31 on Jan 14, 2015 |
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Jan 14, 2015 15:28
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NitroSpazzz posted:I still plan on taking a leaf, volt and prius for a test drive to see how they are but at this point I have limited interest in owning one despite them being ideal for my commute and general use. I think a Volt would be basically perfect for me, but I'm curious how they'll hold up long-term and with high miles. I don't like the idea of buying a new car, so I'm considering picking one up in a couple years when they're available under $10-11k. My commute is 16 miles each way so a Volt would fit the bill just fine it wuold seem.
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Jan 14, 2015 15:37
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Ola posted:Introducting the Chevrolet Bolt. (yes, Bolt)  NitroSpazzz posted:Elon Musk says the Model 3 will be $35k before federal rebates - http://jalopnik.com/elon-musk-says-model-3-will-cost-35-000-before-incent-1679351127 That's going to piss off Chevy a bit when they just announced the Bolt at $30k after rebates. As long as Tesla doesn't make the Model 3 look like absolute garbage I can't picture too many people choosing the Bolt over the Model 3. I'm looking forward to the Model 3. Lol if you believe anything Elon Musk says
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Jan 14, 2015 17:49
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MrYenko posted:Ah. I set mine to the ultra-low setting, just in case it ever goes below 40°F. Yeah that is super annoying as it's the one time when I actually care how many miles I have left. Good to know it shouldn't be a problem though. angryhampster posted:I think a Volt would be basically perfect for me, but I'm curious how they'll hold up long-term and with high miles. I don't like the idea of buying a new car, so I'm considering picking one up in a couple years when they're available under $10-11k. My commute is 16 miles each way so a Volt would fit the bill just fine it wuold seem. That's why I leased it. My gas savings almost cover the lease, service is included for the first 2 years, free onstar for 3 years, and I can just turn it in and get a Tesla or whatever new EV is around in 3 years without having to worry about resale value. The biggest issue for a lot of people is the mileage limit on leases, but it fits perfectly with my commuting and I have a second vehicle for long trips, or if I'm in danger of exceeding my 12k miles a year. You can also always pay for a 15k or more mile allotment. I'm usually not for leasing, but it makes a lot of sense with EV since the technology improves so fast and resale values are likely to be crap. On the other hand, if you're patient you can probably snap up a 2014 Volt in 2017 for dirt cheap.
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Jan 14, 2015 19:22
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Mange Mite posted:
Really? Care to explain because all I'm seeing from Tesla and SpaceX is a lot of poo poo being built that not just works but is loving cool
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Jan 14, 2015 21:57
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Cat Terrist posted:Really? Care to explain because all I'm seeing from Tesla and SpaceX is a lot of poo poo being built that not just works but is loving cool If you look at pretty much anything he promises, what he delivers never actually lives up to it. Pretty much every figure he gives (price/performance/dates) is inaccurate, often wildly inaccurate, with inaccuracy increasing as a function of how far in the future the promised thing. It's pretty much all bullshit hype and the numbers shrink/increase every month before release until they hit something reasonable. Similarly, SpaceX follows the same "overpromise then underdeliver" pattern if you look at their actual performance and achievements. The dude's a snake-oil salesman dating back to his PayPal days when he thought he coudl make big money off of online money laundering. OXBALLS DOT COM fucked around with this message at 23:18 on Jan 14, 2015 |
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Jan 14, 2015 23:10
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Cat Terrist posted:Really? Care to explain because all I'm seeing from Tesla and SpaceX is a lot of poo poo being built that not just works but is loving cool His target dates are hilariously bad. The Model X was supposed to be out in 2013, but was delayed until what has become Q3 2015 to help make the company profitable in 2013, which has now been pushed to 2020.
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Jan 14, 2015 23:12
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Par for the course for a govt contractor.
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Jan 14, 2015 23:55
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sanchez posted:His target dates are hilariously bad. The Model X was supposed to be out in 2013, but was delayed until what has become Q3 2015 to help make the company profitable in 2013, which has now been pushed to 2020. At least their autopilot system was released ahead of schedule.
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Jan 15, 2015 00:00
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Mange Mite posted:If you look at pretty much anything he promises, what he delivers never actually lives up to it. Pretty much every figure he gives (price/performance/dates) is inaccurate, often wildly inaccurate, with inaccuracy increasing as a function of how far in the future the promised thing. It's pretty much all bullshit hype and the numbers shrink/increase every month before release until they hit something reasonable. I dont give a flying gently caress what he's saying, I'm looking at what is delivered. And so far SpaceX is right now the cheapest launch platform with an amazing reusable target that they are looking like they can actually meet (and if they put a bit more fluid in their hydralic systems, they would have already met it), then Tesla with what is literally one of the best ever cars ever made on the road right now, let alone a hell of a EV Whatever you think the guy is overpromising, the results his companies are delivering, right now are absolutely without any shadow of a doubt, brilliant and a long line of real achivements. Making EV's actually desirable cars. THAT in itself is enough to blow any snakeoil debate out of the water, let alone EV's are now a revolution that is starting to gain real momentum. If you said Tesla would be doing what it is doing now five years ago, you would have been laughed out of Dodge. And this is coming from someone who until they got a good look at a Model S thought Tesla was a sad pathetic joke, now I'm forced to concede Tesla are actually a huge part of making an EV not only properly workable in society and our road networks / infrastructure but desireable. quote:His target dates are hilariously bad. It's called the car industry. No one is any better.
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Jan 15, 2015 00:15
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Cat Terrist posted:I dont give a flying gently caress what he's saying, I'm looking at what is delivered. And so far SpaceX is right now the cheapest launch platform with an amazing reusable target that they are looking like they can actually meet (and if they put a bit more fluid in their hydralic systems, they would have already met it), then Tesla with what is literally one of the best ever cars ever made on the road right now, let alone a hell of a EV SpaceX keeps missing milestones and has had some serious ballooning of costs, undercutting the entire argument that they're somehow more effective than alternatives. Also crashes. Similarly, it's not that huge an accomplishment to make a nice car when it costs $100,000 and still loses your company money. Tesla has a very shaky future and their entire business model right now is based on getting investor dollars, then generating hype to get more investor money while making silly promises about breakthrough technology that's totally going to happen right around the future if you just give them more money. They're a financially shaky boutique carmaker trying to masquerade as the second coming of Henry Ford, and it's silly.
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Jan 15, 2015 01:03
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Mange Mite posted:SpaceX keeps missing milestones and has had some serious ballooning of costs, undercutting the entire argument that they're somehow more effective than alternatives. Also crashes. Um... In fourteen F9/F9R launches, SpaceX hasn't had a launch failure yet. They even had a loving first stage engine EXPLODE, and still put the primary payload in the intended orbit. In fact, if NASA hadn't told them not to relight the second stage, they probably could've saved the secondary payload, as well. The only crashes they've had have been Grasshopper, and attempts to return first stages, which have gone remarkably well, despite their failures. All but Grasshopper have occurred AFTER the first stages in question successfully launched their payloads as required. I agree that Tesla has one motherfucker of a slippery schedule, and a hazy financial future, but you seem to have a bit of a bug up your rear end about them, and I can't figure out why. The Model S is a really, really nice loving car.
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Jan 15, 2015 01:44
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