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I tried to play HOI2 last night because I really liked the interface, the tech tree, and the troop movement. I opened it and immediately regretted everything. Flickering screen, 2D map, nostalgia shattered.  HOI2 - you're still my favorite HOI but I can't play you any more.
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Jan 12, 2015 17:37
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GO gently caress YOURSELF posted:I tried to play HOI2 last night because I really liked the interface, the tech tree, and the troop movement. I opened it and immediately regretted everything. Flickering screen, 2D map, nostalgia shattered. I like the 2D map a lot better than their early stabs at 3D maps, EU3 is really ugly. I still think EU1 looks great, very slick and clean looking map. Dunno about the flickering though, that's weird. EU1 was my first Paradox game. I had no idea what I was doing, and I picked the Fantasia start. :X
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Jan 12, 2015 17:47
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Victoria 2 has the best paradox map, every game since has been really ugly in comparison.
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Jan 12, 2015 17:49
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HOI2 still holds some of my best paradox memories. Underemployed, spending hours playing in my dark, dank concrete basement (hey at least it was my own apartment), chain smoking, drinking 40s, and plotting the invasion of the Soviet Union (no this time we're gonna make it, really). Ah, to be young again. also I think I was about 100 hours into HOI2 before I figured this out quote:I started playing Paradox games with EU1 but it wasn't until HOI2 that I realized that you could right-click the country flags to play as EVERYONE
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Jan 12, 2015 17:50
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dMastri posted:HOI2 still holds some of my best paradox memories. Underemployed, spending hours playing in my dark, dank concrete basement (hey at least it was my own apartment), chain smoking, drinking 40s, and plotting the invasion of the Soviet Union (no this time we're gonna make it, really). Ah, to be young again. From the post-av combo, I couldn't help but picturing Ray posting this. He doesn't have a basement, though.
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Jan 12, 2015 17:53
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Gwyrgyn Blood posted:I like the 2D map a lot better than their early stabs at 3D maps, EU3 is really ugly. I still think EU1 looks great, very slick and clean looking map. Dunno about the flickering though, that's weird. The thing that was frustrating about the map wasn't so specifically that it was 2D but that I couldn't zoom with the mouse wheel and just found it to be a little archaic. I've been spoiled by EU4 and Ck2.
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Jan 12, 2015 17:53
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Gwyrgyn Blood posted:I like the 2D map a lot better than their early stabs at 3D maps, EU3 is really ugly. I still think EU1 looks great, very slick and clean looking map. Dunno about the flickering though, that's weird. Early EU3 and its kindergarten palette was indeed incredibly ugly, but I think by the end of its life cycle it had a decent-looking map.  
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Jan 12, 2015 17:55
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Hearts of Iron 2 was my very first digital purchase, from gamersgate no less because I was afraid of Steam. Cue 2013-2014 and I just rebought the entire Paradox back catalog on Steam.Zeron posted:Victoria
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Jan 12, 2015 17:58
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has the best paradox map, every game since has been really ugly in comparison.
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That's a hell of a Europe.GO gently caress YOURSELF posted:The thing that was frustrating about the map wasn't so specifically that it was 2D but that I couldn't zoom with the mouse wheel and just found it to be a little archaic. I've been spoiled by EU4 and Ck2. No spacebar pause 
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Jan 12, 2015 17:59
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Pakled posted:Early EU3 and its kindergarten palette was indeed incredibly ugly, but I think by the end of its life cycle it had a decent-looking map. Oh yeah, I played EU3 before they fixed up the map so I forget that they actually made it look pretty good later on. I love the way that second screenshot looks, that's a great looking map. Unfortunately I've already got EU4 now so I probably won't go back and revist EU3 post expansions at this point.
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Jan 12, 2015 18:12
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DStecks posted:From the post-av combo, I couldn't help but picturing Ray posting this. He doesn't have a basement, though. I do have to sadly admit that at the time I was pirating everything, so I don't have this same digital purchase nostalgia. Now that I have disposable income I own like every Paradox title... I'm sure at least some of that is out of guilt.
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Jan 12, 2015 18:15
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Gwyrgyn Blood posted:
There's no point anyway. Unless you're one of the die hard who hates monarch points, 4 IS 3, just massively enhanced and improved in every way.
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Jan 12, 2015 18:17
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The biggest thing I miss about EU3 vs EU4 is being able to tag swap in gamey ways to grab multiple country-specific decisions.
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Jan 12, 2015 18:39
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StashAugustine posted:That's a hell of a Europe. Can you not rebind it to spacebar in HoI2? You can in DH, at least.
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Jan 12, 2015 18:55
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As far as I remember, the press key to pause function did not exist in HoI2. Thank god for Darkest Hour though, seriously.
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Jan 12, 2015 19:48
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Chief Savage Man posted:As far as I remember, the press key to pause function did not exist in HoI2. Thank god for Darkest Hour though, seriously. Yeah, space didn't work, you had to press the pause key all the way on the right side of the keyboard. I blame that game for my bad posture.
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Jan 12, 2015 19:53
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Guildencrantz posted:Yeah, space didn't work, you had to press the pause key all the way on the right side of the keyboard. I remember there being some third party program that changed the function of pause button to space, but you had to run it every time before starting HOI.
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Jan 12, 2015 20:11
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There's a way to mod the game to do that, but it means you can't insert spaces into custom unit names anymore so I don't use it.
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Jan 12, 2015 20:19
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Kavak posted:There's a way to mod the game to do that, but it means you can't insert spaces into custom unit names anymore so I don't use it. Considering I never name my units this is not that bad.
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Jan 12, 2015 20:31
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SeaTard posted:The biggest thing I miss about EU3 vs EU4 is being able to tag swap in gamey ways to grab multiple country-specific decisions. It was a beautiful thing. You could get up to like 200% discipline or something, and just roll face. But EU4 currently has the 0% attrition infinite-doomstack exploit, which is infinitely more amusing. Kavak posted:There's a way to mod the game to do that, but it means you can't insert spaces into custom unit names anymore so I don't use it. Just mod some other key like \ into becoming a space! 
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Jan 12, 2015 21:12
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Yes, it's like a lava lamp.
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PittTheElder posted:It was a beautiful thing. You could get up to like 200% discipline or something, and just roll face. But EU4 currently has the 0% attrition infinite-doomstack exploit, which is infinitely more amusing. Ok you're going to have to elaborate on this.
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Jan 12, 2015 21:18
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gradenko_2000 posted:Ok you're going to have to elaborate on this. For the most part EU3 didn't have the various countries bonuses tied to the country you were playing, but tied to unique decisions that you could only enact as that country. So if you played your cards right, you could culture and tag swap a bunch of times, grabbing all kinds of useful things. The most popular was grabbing both Swedish Steel (+5% discipline) with Prussian Military Reform (+20% discipline). Add in the Esprit de Corp idea (+25% discipline), a 6 star advisor (+12% discipline), Absolute Monarchy (+5% discipline) and the Military Act (+6% discipline), and you'd end up with crazy armies. The EU4 attrition thing is to use one of a couple countries (Zaz, Kongo, someone else) to stack just enough -attrition when combined with several idea lines and policies to get to -100% attrition. You can then roll with a giant stack of millions of men, and auto-win every battle and instantly assault every province. Funny as hell, and broken as poo poo.
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Jan 12, 2015 21:36
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gradenko_2000 posted:Ok you're going to have to elaborate on this. It's not really an exploit. If you take a nation with enough -%attrition (kongo or a horde) you can get to -100% attrition through policies and idea groups. And that does exactly what you think it does.
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Jan 12, 2015 21:37
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SeaTard posted:The EU4 attrition thing is to use one of a couple countries (Zaz, Kongo, someone else) to stack just enough -attrition when combined with several idea lines and policies to get to -100% attrition. You can then roll with a giant stack of millions of men, and auto-win every battle and instantly assault every province. Funny as hell, and broken as poo poo. Welp, guess my next EU4 game is with Kongo. SeaTard posted:and the Military Act (+6% discipline), The Militia Act. 
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Jan 12, 2015 21:44
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Pakled posted:Early EU3 and its kindergarten palette was indeed incredibly ugly, but I think by the end of its life cycle it had a decent-looking map. God I remember being so disappointed in EU3, that rear end-ugly map, no events, no missions, manual trade, no difference between countries...I basically went back to EU2 in disgust for about a year until IN came out.
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Jan 12, 2015 21:48
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So in what board room meeting did the heads of Paradox Interactive come together and conclude that what the EU franchise really needed was 3d maps exactly? Like, I want to hear the argument that managed to convince everyone to switch from the nice looking and theme appropriate 2d graphic interface to the current ugly rear end playdough poo poo one we have today. Because seriously, either Paradox's stockholders are a cabal of old men looking to make EU hip to the kids, or the guy who proposed it made one hell of a convincing argument.
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Jan 12, 2015 22:01
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VerdantSquire posted:So in what board room meeting did the heads of Paradox Interactive come together and conclude that what the EU franchise really needed was 3d maps exactly? Like, I want to hear the argument that managed to convince everyone to switch from the nice looking and theme appropriate 2d graphic interface to the current ugly rear end playdough poo poo one we have today. Because seriously, either Paradox's stockholders are a cabal of old men looking to make EU hip to the kids, or the guy who proposed it made one hell of a convincing argument. Gettin' mad about maps.
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Jan 12, 2015 22:08
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I would imagine it was experimentation. Like "we could make the map 3D and make mountains actually visible morphological features, we haven't done that before, let's try it and see what comes out". I honestly doubt there was much more deliberation and board meetings going on, up until recently Paradox games were labelled "indie".
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Jan 12, 2015 22:12
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Slime Bro Helpdesk posted:Gettin' mad about maps. The day Paradox announced their new map style...
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Jan 12, 2015 22:14
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VerdantSquire posted:So in what board room meeting did the heads of Paradox Interactive come together and conclude that what the EU franchise really needed was 3d maps exactly? Like, I want to hear the argument that managed to convince everyone to switch from the nice looking and theme appropriate 2d graphic interface to the current ugly rear end playdough poo poo one we have today. Because seriously, either Paradox's stockholders are a cabal of old men looking to make EU hip to the kids, or the guy who proposed it made one hell of a convincing argument. Why does everyone get so butthurt over the map?
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Jan 12, 2015 22:15
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YF-23 posted:I would imagine it was experimentation. Like "we could make the map 3D and make mountains actually visible morphological features, we haven't done that before, let's try it and see what comes out". I honestly doubt there was much more deliberation and board meetings going on, up until recently Paradox games were labelled "indie". Still, there seems to be something going on at Paradox that seems deliberate when it comes to recent changes. Somebody there really seems to love terrain map mode, when pretty much everybody I've ever asked always plays in political map mode, and somebody seems to be putting a lot of resources into making the terrain look good when it is mostly superficial compared to the general aesthetic of the map for those that play in political mode. Slime Bro Helpdesk posted:Gettin' mad about maps. These are map painting games we're talking about. The map looking good is the entire god drat point of the game!
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Jan 12, 2015 22:15
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Slime Bro Helpdesk posted:Gettin' mad about maps. Oh no, I'm not seriously angry or anything, I really don't care that much at the end of the day. But really, just look at the pictures of vanilla EU3 and try to tell me it isn't just eye vomit compared to the maps of the prior games.
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Jan 12, 2015 22:27
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gradenko_2000 posted:Ok you're going to have to elaborate on this. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NM92NPfbd7I Attrition reduction bonuses stack. An army will insta-wipe an enemy army if it is 10x the size of the smaller army. http://www.reddit.com/r/eu4/comments/2ruvg1/how_to_fight_france_and_greyskin_101/
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Jan 12, 2015 23:06
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TheMcD posted:Still, there seems to be something going on at Paradox that seems deliberate when it comes to recent changes. Somebody there really seems to love terrain map mode, when pretty much everybody I've ever asked always plays in political map mode, and somebody seems to be putting a lot of resources into making the terrain look good when it is mostly superficial compared to the general aesthetic of the map for those that play in political mode. They are putting more and more terrain effects into the games. If you can see what the terrain is that you're sending your little dudes to, they can make it matter more. Day and night effects have always existed in the HOI games but it was only displayed in the minimap before, now that will be in the main map as well. The combination of political and weather map modes into terrain map mode for HOI4 will be great for gameplay as long as people don't totally hate the look of it. I think it looks fine but most people are throwing a huge fit about the change. It's more like someone at Paradox wants to make weather, terrain, and other things matter more, and is trying to create a mapmode that presents it all at once without being confusing.
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Jan 13, 2015 00:16
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ArchRanger posted:Then moved to vanilla EU3 and despite how unpolished and frankly boring it was got more than a hundred hours into it before the first expansion came out. That game seriously came a long way. Speaking of which has anyone ever recreated the scenarios from Miscmods? Virtually empty Europe and every other tech group modernized sounds like a pretty fun game right now. http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=303749032- Rice and Salt remake here, with some liberties, I think, is one of them. I don't think it does much outside of Europe though but I could be wrong.
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Jan 13, 2015 00:32
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YF-23 posted:Welp, guess my next EU4 game is with Kongo. Better hurry. Big Wiz is Watching. 
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Jan 13, 2015 00:46
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Finally got some leads on groups to try out Board-Europa, so I went ahead and got something to store all those counters in and let the sorting begin. The tokens for generals contain many notable historic persons. 
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Jan 13, 2015 00:49
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Drone posted:Especially when talking about Darkest Hour/Hearts of Iron in general, it's much easier to play as a full-on dictatorship (0% dissent gain for declaring war on Switzerland? Go for it!), but I like the little bit of challenge being a democracy adds to it. It makes you feel more like you're the good guys, especially in games like DH where the Nazis tend to just stomp everything. You aren't the good guys.
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Jan 13, 2015 01:03
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VerdantSquire posted:So in what board room meeting did the heads of Paradox Interactive come together and conclude that what the EU franchise really needed was 3d maps exactly? Like, I want to hear the argument that managed to convince everyone to switch from the nice looking and theme appropriate 2d graphic interface to the current ugly rear end playdough poo poo one we have today. Because seriously, either Paradox's stockholders are a cabal of old men looking to make EU hip to the kids, or the guy who proposed it made one hell of a convincing argument. i think the line i heard being given around when eu3 came out was that the shift to 3d/a different engine let them offload graphical processing onto graphics cards and off the processor so that they could put more cpu power toward processing AI and other non-graphical poo poo i don't know enough about programming to determine if that is totally bullshit or not but that's what i remember reading at the time for what its worth i look at the old eu games in screenshots or hoi2 and think that poo poo is butt ugly too
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Jan 13, 2015 01:07
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