|
I read somewhere that V for Vendetta gets a pretty bad rep for having a lovely political message. Can someone shed light on why's that the case? What about it makes it so wrong-headed?
|
#
?
Jan 10, 2015 02:22
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 12, 2024 23:35 |
|
|
It sort of neuters the point of the source material by making V into a vaguely liberal hero instead of a explicitly anarchist maniac and making the Nazis, who were cruel but very human in the comic, into what basically amounts to mustache twirling villains. In the film the head Nazi is called Adam Su It's also not nearly as good at glorifying terrorism as Battle of Algiers or Carlos or Baader-Meinhof Complex. FreudianSlippers fucked around with this message at 03:43 on Jan 10, 2015 |
|
#
?
Jan 10, 2015 02:30
|
|
|
Vegetable posted:I read somewhere that V for Vendetta gets a pretty bad rep for having a lovely political message. Can someone shed light on why's that the case? What about it makes it so wrong-headed? They basically turned the comic into a "gently caress BU$HITLER" screed at a time when half the country would hate it simply for bashing the glorious leader and the other half would squabble over it not fitting their particular vision of how things ought to be.
|
|
#
?
Jan 10, 2015 02:45
|
|
|
V is very much not an unambiguously good character in the comic, but in the movie, all that ambivalence is removed.
|
|
#
?
Jan 10, 2015 02:59
|
|
|
I understand how these are negatives in comparison to the comic, but does that really make the film's message "lovely"?
|
|
#
?
Jan 10, 2015 03:13
|
|
|
Snak posted:I understand how these are negatives in comparison to the comic, but does that really make the film's message "lovely"? It simplifies the message into "the ends justify the means" which the comic very much tells you they do not. So the message is entirely different from the comic; whether you agree with that other message is I guess up to your own ethics etc. E: I guess the comic doesn't so much say "they do not" but that it is a spectrum with a hell of a lot of very different shades in it? Point is, V is clearly a force of good in the movie, even when he literally kills people. It's a very for lack of a better word "American" way to look at right and wrong. It's like any Hollywood movie, if a character hurts another character, especially a woman or child, they will be killed. The best end they can get is regretting their actions and sacrificiing themselves, but they "need" to die in the movie. V is a righteous avenger that kills the bad guys in the movie. In the comic he is super messed up and there's the whole brainwashing thing, which is also ultimately for the better in the movie. Carthag Tuek fucked around with this message at 03:27 on Jan 10, 2015 |
|
#
?
Jan 10, 2015 03:21
|
|
|
Snapchat A Titty posted:It simplifies the message into "the ends justify the means" which the comic very much tells you they do not. So the message is entirely different from the comic; whether you agree with that other message is I guess up to your own ethics etc. Yeah that's my point. I totally understand the idea that the movie simplifies the comic's message so much that it doesn't really have the same content, but 90% of people who saw the film didn't read the comic. My question was: Is the message of the film lovely?
|
|
#
?
Jan 10, 2015 03:27
|
|
|
I get what you mean, I tried to put it in words in an edit up there. Dunno if it makes sense.
|
|
#
?
Jan 10, 2015 03:28
|
|
|
No I get it. But I think I agree much more with what you said about an "American way of looking at it". I think that PG-13 violence and "the ends justify the means when the good guys does it" are the worst aspects of hollywood films. So of course I think that the fact that V for Vendetta literally endorses terrorism "if it's justified" is pretty bad, but at the same time, I do appreciate a film that is openly critical of government corruption. Think of how many american films where there is government corruption "but the President isn't in on it" and he teams up with the good guys to save the country from the "bad politicians". V for Vendetta wasn't that.
|
|
#
?
Jan 10, 2015 03:37
|
|
|
V knows he isn't a good guy. He says at one point they created a monster, so he'll do monstrous things to them. It's sorta like how Vader was the one to kill the Emperor, not Luke.
|
|
#
?
Jan 10, 2015 03:40
|
|
|
Absolutism was the word I was looking for. A tooth for a tooth, as opposed to the in my opinion sane option of compassion. Take Breivik, a loathsome person whom I won't hesitate to say that I hate; the world would have gained nothing from a vengeful execution, but there is a possibility that he may one day change and do something good. And even if he doesn't, at least the Norwegians did not sink to his level.
|
|
#
?
Jan 10, 2015 04:06
|
|
|
Snapchat A Titty posted:Absolutism was the word I was looking for. A tooth for a tooth, as opposed to the in my opinion sane option of compassion. Take Breivik, a loathsome person whom I won't hesitate to say that I hate; the world would have gained nothing from a vengeful execution, but there is a possibility that he may one day change and do something good. And even if he doesn't, at least the Norwegians did not sink to his level. Snak posted:But I think I agree much more with what you said about an "American way of looking at it". I think that PG-13 violence and "the ends justify the means when the good guys does it" are the worst aspects of hollywood films Both of these things. Being the biggest most influential kid on the block and encouraging pointless vengeance on a deep cultural level are poo poo. There's a lot of good people in Amerikkka and good ideas but this overshadows it, to me.
|
|
#
?
Jan 10, 2015 04:50
|
|
|
FreudianSlippers posted:It's also not nearly as good at glorifying terrorism as Battle of Algiers or Carlos those are both great movies but i wouldn't come close to saying that they glorify terrorism
|
|
#
?
Jan 10, 2015 05:36
|
|
|
It's hilarious that things like The Algerian War of Independence get knocked for terrorism. About a million Algerians died and a few thousand French died.
|
|
#
?
Jan 10, 2015 15:43
|
|
|
HUNDU THE BEAST GOD posted:It's hilarious that things like The Algerian War of Independence get knocked for terrorism. About a million Algerians died and a few thousand French died. i mean putting bombs in cafes ain't exactly cool. a lot of the extras on the Battle for Algiers DVD were people talking about how the movie's sympathies lie with the Algerian fighters, and maybe that's true, but i think it made both sides look pretty awful.
|
|
#
?
Jan 10, 2015 15:46
|
|
|
What's cool or fair about war?
|
|
#
?
Jan 10, 2015 16:04
|
|
|
HUNDU THE BEAST GOD posted:What's cool or fair about war? absolutely nothing (which is also what it's good for, say it again)
|
|
#
?
Jan 10, 2015 16:08
|
|
|
Star Wars glorifies terrorism.
|
|
#
?
Jan 10, 2015 16:11
|
|
|
penismightier posted:Star Wars glorifies terrorism. The people doing it are white so it's actually a justifiable revolution.
|
|
#
?
Jan 10, 2015 16:13
|
|
|
penismightier posted:Star Wars glorifies terrorism. you jest, but this is actually sorta what i was getting at: i think some people look at a movie like Battle of Algiers and are a little too eager to fit it into a "scrappy underdogs vs. evil empire" narrative. not to say the underdogs weren't scrappy, or that the empire isn't evil, but it's too complex to apply the Rocky formula to. that's actually what i like about the movie, it doesn't flinch from reality.
|
|
#
?
Jan 10, 2015 16:15
|
|
|
If somebody made a film about the OAS made in exactly the same way as Battle of Algiers people would complain too.
|
|
#
?
Jan 10, 2015 16:15
|
|
|
Uncle Boogeyman posted:you jest, but this is actually sorta what i was getting at: i think some people look at a movie like Battle of Algiers and are a little too eager to fit it into a "scrappy underdogs vs. evil empire" narrative. not to say the underdogs weren't scrappy, or that the empire isn't evil, but it's too complex to apply the Rocky formula to. that's actually what i like about the movie, it doesn't flinch from reality. Totally wasn't jesting at all, I think that's a big part of what worked about it, it let us pretend to be underdogs again after 'Nam, until Rambo 2 managed to figure out how to make us the underdogs in Nam.
|
|
#
?
Jan 10, 2015 16:34
|
|
|
Rambo 2 is so great. It's like, the acme of psycho cryptofascism. In fact, I think that's the only real knock against Rambo 4, that it tries to reproduce perfection.
|
|
#
?
Jan 10, 2015 17:29
|
|
|
Uncle Boogeyman posted:you jest, but this is actually sorta what i was getting at: i think some people look at a movie like Battle of Algiers and are a little too eager to fit it into a "scrappy underdogs vs. evil empire" narrative. not to say the underdogs weren't scrappy, or that the empire isn't evil, but it's too complex to apply the Rocky formula to. that's actually what i like about the movie, it doesn't flinch from reality. Considering that Gillo Pontecorvo made the movie in collaboration with the Algerians who actually fought in the war, yeah it's surprisingly even-handed. I've ended up watching the cafe bombing sequence dozens of times and it's a superb example of editing.
|
|
#
?
Jan 10, 2015 17:47
|
|
|
I have a special effects question (from a music video, but whatever). In Depeche Mode - Shake the Disease there is an effect where someone is rotating parallel to the film plane that I can't figure out. It's interspersed through the video, but there's a sequence of them starting around 3:10. The thing that confuses me is that you can see a shadow on the ground rotating with them, so it doesn't look like its composited. The video quality sure doesn't help figuring it out.
|
|
#
?
Jan 10, 2015 21:17
|
|
|
Snak posted:No I get it. But I think I agree much more with what you said about an "American way of looking at it". I think that PG-13 violence and "the ends justify the means when the good guys does it" are the worst aspects of hollywood films. So of course I think that the fact that V for Vendetta literally endorses terrorism "if it's justified" is pretty bad, but at the same time, I do appreciate a film that is openly critical of government corruption. I still don't get how they left the brainwashing in there and somehow justified it. Like, the guy literally tortures someone and makes his own Patty Hearst and the movie ends by saying it was right and good that this should happen, that V can't enter his new vaguely free world but for some reason it's ok that he made a spare who's still running around--not just ok, but better than if she had remained a normal person who can now live a normal life with less fear. Also, the movie treats violence like something that can just be left behind and politics like it's the Christian millennium, that once you kill enough people to make liberal democracy happen then it's the end of history and everything will be perfect forevermore. It's actually a very pro-Bush film in that way, like it's the neocon vision of invading Iraq.
|
|
#
?
Jan 10, 2015 21:25
|
|
|
david_a posted:I have a special effects question (from a music video, but whatever). In Depeche Mode - Shake the Disease there is an effect where someone is rotating parallel to the film plane that I can't figure out. It's interspersed through the video, but there's a sequence of them starting around 3:10. The thing that confuses me is that you can see a shadow on the ground rotating with them, so it doesn't look like its composited. The video quality sure doesn't help figuring it out. Found this page that explains how it was done. quote:One of the most interesting aspects of the release was Peter Care's video, which included dockside footage utilising his affectionately termed 'upside down machine'.
|
|
#
?
Jan 10, 2015 21:29
|
|
|
Hibernator posted:Found this page that explains how it was done.
|
|
#
?
Jan 10, 2015 21:41
|
|
|
HUNDU THE BEAST GOD posted:Rambo 2 is so great. It's like, the acme of psycho cryptofascism. In fact, I think that's the only real knock against Rambo 4, that it tries to reproduce perfection. What I like about Rambo 4 is that it is basically "the legend of Rambo". Yes it technically fits into his life story chronologically, but it's basically all the iconic things about Rambo that people recognize from pop culture distilled and turned up to eleven while still being a competent film.
|
|
#
?
Jan 10, 2015 22:04
|
|
|
Another music video question. How do they film pop stars singing in slow mo/half speed while still keeping their lips synced to the music?
|
|
#
?
Jan 13, 2015 10:11
|
|
|
xcore posted:Another music video question. How do they film pop stars singing in slow mo/half speed while still keeping their lips synced to the music? They film at high-speed, and have the performer lip-sync to a sped up music track.
|
|
#
?
Jan 13, 2015 10:13
|
|
|
The entirety of Weezer's Undone (the Sweater Song) music video was filmed this way, actually.
|
|
#
?
Jan 13, 2015 18:03
|
|
|
FreshFeesh posted:The entirety of Weezer's Undone (the Sweater Song) music video was filmed this way, actually. Conversely, all of Little Shop of Horror's songs with the plant (other than "Grow for Me," I guess) were shot at between 1/2 and 1/4 speed, so the animation team could manipulate Audrey II's mouth competently, since it would be impossible in real-time. Rick Moranis was a trooper learning to sing to a puppet at half-speed.
|
|
#
?
Jan 13, 2015 20:05
|
|
|
Everblight posted:Conversely, all of Little Shop of Horror's songs with the plant (other than "Grow for Me," I guess) were shot at between 1/2 and 1/4 speed, so the animation team could manipulate Audrey II's mouth competently, since it would be impossible in real-time. Rick Moranis was a trooper learning to sing to a puppet at half-speed. I wish Rick Moranis was still acting.
|
|
#
?
Jan 13, 2015 21:23
|
|
|
MacheteZombie posted:I wish Rick Moranis was still acting. You can still hear him sing: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y79MYHUj4pU
|
|
#
?
Jan 13, 2015 23:02
|
|
|
Forgive me, for this is probably a stupid question, but where does the whole thing about French films being pretentious, black and white, and full of infidelity come from?
|
|
#
?
Jan 18, 2015 05:33
|
|
|
Megaschmoo posted:Forgive me, for this is probably a stupid question, but where does the whole thing about French films being pretentious, black and white, and full of infidelity come from? The French New Wave, probably. Look up Breathless, Band of Outsiders, the 400 Blows and a bunch of other movies made by French directors after World War II up through the 60s. Other posters can probably do a better job of describing the details, but in America these movies got a reputation for being difficult and have been taught in academic settings for like 60 years, probably causing generations of anti-intellectual freshmen to get bored after 10 minutes and call it all pretentious trash.
|
|
#
?
Jan 18, 2015 05:52
|
|
|
Mostly thanks to the French new-wave.
|
|
#
?
Jan 18, 2015 05:53
|
|
|
It should be noted that Quentin Tarantino named his film company after a Godard flick.
|
|
#
?
Jan 18, 2015 06:01
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 12, 2024 23:35 |
|
|
How exactly is The Guest a John Carpenter homage?
|
|
#
?
Jan 18, 2015 06:31
|
|
