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I would like for Thousand Sons to be good maybe ever tia
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Jan 14, 2015 14:54
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Gang, can i ask your opinion. I am looking to move onto a 30k project and have a set of mk 2,3 and 4 armoir along with fw bolters for 10 of them. I also have 15 catulan reavers from an ebay deal and a collection of the current plastic space marind sprues and the torso with no eagle. My questions is, i have seen a lot of images of 30k armies but people are generally quite uniform with the armour marks. Has anyone got a strong opinion or has seen any armies with a mixture of marks in 30k? Also is the mixing of appropriate bits from the space marine sprue an okay idea? I know to avoid the imperial eagles and too many purity seals but has anyonehave any particular experience with this style? Also i havent got HH book 2 yet and although i have a rough idea of catulan reavers rules from google would it be worth just mixing the models in for flavour or making them a seperate unit and keepig them as reavers? I am tempted to mix them in and stick with troops choices.
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Jan 14, 2015 15:01
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When you say "mixture of marks," do you mean within a model (MkII helmet, MkIII shoulder pad, MkIV otherwise), a squad (some MkIII guys, some MkIV guys) or an army? I think the first sort would be pretty rare unless you're trying to represent a tattered post-Istvaan warband operating far from the rest of the fleet, but I've seen plenty of the other two kinds. I'm sure some of the limits are because people purchasing from Forgeworld buy Mk-specific Legion-branded shoulder pads in packs of ten. Thus, someone who doesn't want to mix components within an actual suit might not own all of the marks of armor if his army doesn't have a lot of ordinary marines in it. Edit: I think the fluff basis for not mixing marks even army-wide is that a lot of combat units were upgraded across the board all at once, and MkIV armor was the most advanced at the time of the heresy. So having IV-only or a mix of IV and V (which is just repaired IV) would make a lot of sense if, say, you were trying to represent a Traitor legion force that had been operating in the same theatre as its Primarch. Sulecrist fucked around with this message at 15:34 on Jan 14, 2015 |
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Jan 14, 2015 15:31
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Karandras posted:I would like for Thousand Sons to be good maybe ever tia It'd be nice to see more Thousand Sons though, they're a pretty cool legion.
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Jan 14, 2015 15:46
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Sulecrist posted:When you say "mixture of marks," do you mean within a model (MkII helmet, MkIII shoulder pad, MkIV otherwise), a squad (some MkIII guys, some MkIV guys) or an army? I think the first sort would be pretty rare unless you're trying to represent a tattered post-Istvaan warband operating far from the rest of the fleet, but I've seen plenty of the other two kinds. I'm sure some of the limits are because people purchasing from Forgeworld buy Mk-specific Legion-branded shoulder pads in packs of ten. Thus, someone who doesn't want to mix components within an actual suit might not own all of the marks of armor if his army doesn't have a lot of ordinary marines in it. What i was potentially getting at would be the first option, partially to dilute my forge world stuff to make it go further. I do respect the fluff but also want my kid to have juice and wondered if i am careful if it looks okay. I was thinking an SoH loyalist survivor force which potentially accounts for fmixed stuff being field repairs etc. I also want this project to include battle damage and weathering so that fits as well.
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Jan 14, 2015 15:50
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HiveCommander posted:Were they good back in 4th? For some reason I thought they were, since AP3 bolters are every Marine player's worst nightmare and transports were deathtraps. The main issue is that the unit itself is pretty solid, but it has the albatross around its neck of mandatory Aspiring Sorcerors which are crazy expensive for being a lovely ML1 Tzeentch caster. If the Tzeentch spells were good then it wouldn't be as bad, but they are bad which makes it worse. If they made it so that base Aspiring Sorcerors were just "Psykers" with no ML but could be bumped up then it would fix a lot of the problem. Or fix Tzeentchian psychic powers but we know that's not happening.  Also fixing Tzeentch magic would be really easy. Make all but the Primaris really powerful or have multiple utilities but give each one a special rule called something like: Tzeentch's Gaze: If a Psyker successfully manifests this power, they must make a Leadership check. Psykers without a Mark of Tzeentch suffer a -1 Ld. penalty for every Warp Charge expended (i.e. the Psyker would suffer -2 for a Warp Charge 2 power). If the Psyker fails this Leadership check, they suffer a wound with no saves allowed. If the Psyker is still alive after the wound is resolved, replace the model with a Chaos Spawn in the exact same way as the Spawnhood Chaos Boon result. Aspiring Sorcerors of the Thousand Sons and Ahriman are not affected by Tzeentch's Gaze. PierreTheMime fucked around with this message at 16:03 on Jan 14, 2015 |
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Jan 14, 2015 15:51
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I've been vaguely wanting to get into 40k for a couple of years now and was finally convinced to go watch a game by a coworker last night. It looked amazingly fun, although watching his Guardsmen get incinerated en masse by some sort of chaos dragon made me rethink playing Imperial Guard. After browsing GW's site I'm looking to start a Blood Angels army. They have amazing looking models and I like the overall concept. Can anybody throw a few pointers my way for getting started? I'm not clear on all of what I need to buy and the lack of a good starter set for Blood Angels makes things difficult. Do I need to Space Marines Codex in addition to the Blood Angels Specific codex?
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Jan 14, 2015 15:59
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JackMack posted:What i was potentially getting at would be the first option, partially to dilute my forge world stuff to make it go further. I do respect the fluff but also want my kid to have juice and wondered if i am careful if it looks okay. I was thinking an SoH loyalist survivor force which potentially accounts for fmixed stuff being field repairs etc. I also want this project to include battle damage and weathering so that fits as well. I think that would make plenty of sense for those sorts of loyalists, especially from a legion like the Sons of Horus that already had so much armor individualization. Edit: in case it wasn't clear, that's what I meant by stranded post-Istvaan warband, except that your example also has the added twist that they're renegades and can't depend on even distant fraternal relationships for resupply. Sulecrist fucked around with this message at 16:03 on Jan 14, 2015 |
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Jan 14, 2015 15:59
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Chaos Space Marines do need some fixs and I would be happy to see Khorne getting a boost. In general CSM need at least one flying transport, and small fixa to cult troops (1k sons and Khornites getting something to off set the horrible rules they have). 1k sons are just horrible this edition, something which could of easily been fixed if slow and purposeful could be avoided by a leadership test.
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Jan 14, 2015 15:59
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Cataphract posted:I better get those extra 50 boyz painted Extra 50? I just found a box with 44 more boyz bringing my count up to 220+ I only have about 50 of those painted.
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Jan 14, 2015 16:11
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Foul Ole Ron posted:Chaos Space Marines do need some fixs and I would be happy to see Khorne getting a boost. 1k Sons having a sorcerer aspiring champion was fine back when that meant having a champion with a S9 AP2 weapon via the Bolt of Change psychic power. It helped alleviate the fact that your squads had no heavy weapons. Now it's just a huge burden.
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Jan 14, 2015 16:33
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Pendent posted:After browsing GW's site I'm looking to start a Blood Angels army. They have amazing looking models and I like the overall concept. Can anybody throw a few pointers my way for getting started? I'm not clear on all of what I need to buy and the lack of a good starter set for Blood Angels makes things difficult. Do I need to Space Marines Codex in addition to the Blood Angels Specific codex? I can't answer BA specific questions as I don't play them, but no, you don't need the SM book as well as the BA book. In general, you will need 1 HQ unit and 2 troop units as a bare minimum for a legal army though. Personally I would play BA as red Marines from the SM book, but that's just me.
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Jan 14, 2015 17:37
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Pendent posted:I've been vaguely wanting to get into 40k for a couple of years now and was finally convinced to go watch a game by a coworker last night. You do not need the "base" Space Marine Codex. All you need is the BA dex, and you should probably pick up a rulebook, too. I'd go ahead and start off with a simple Tactical squad (the new BA Tac Squad box is baller) to get the hang of assembling and painting. There are a few cool web bundles on GW's site that can help you get started, too. The one that's best for newbies is probably: http://www.games-workshop.com/en-AU/Blood-Angels-All-New-Releases-Web-Bundle ...but it looks like it's out of stock at the moment. My advice, and please keep in mind that this is specific to me, is that you ought not to jump in super hardcore. Start small, get used to the hobby aspects of 40k, and if it's something you enjoy, go full retard with it. I'd hate for you to buy a crap ton of models and then you figure out you hate painting them. I like to put aside an hour or so a night for hobby time, and I've been able to kick out a ton of models in the last year or so. I also generally only buy one thing at a time, waiting until the previous model/squad/whatever is painted before I go out and but more stuff, but that's really just a way to incentivize painting. It's also a lot of fun to listen to 40k-themed podcasts while painting; it can be nice to be immersed in the hobby. The best is Ghost Hand's The Independent Characters. Welcome to the hobby!
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Jan 14, 2015 17:47
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Lungboy posted:I can't answer BA specific questions as I don't play them, but no, you don't need the SM book as well as the BA book. In general, you will need 1 HQ unit and 2 troop units as a bare minimum for a legal army though. Why is that? The BA specific ruleset seems interesting from what I can see
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Jan 14, 2015 17:47
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If the rules seem interesting and you enjoy the miniatures , play that army. You will always have a more enjoyable time win or lose with miniatures you've picked because you liked them more than miniatures you picked because the rules are good. Blood Angels got a really great treatment with the last 2 Campaign books really giving you a great number of formations with special rules etc.. Here's a list of them http://bloodofkittens.com/formation-compendium/ There's some great EBAY deals right now on Blood Angels as well so you can probably pick up a full army on the cheap. Hollismason fucked around with this message at 18:34 on Jan 14, 2015 |
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Jan 14, 2015 18:31
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Pendent posted:Why is that? The BA specific ruleset seems interesting from what I can see If you're brand new I don't see why you shouldn't start with the BA ruleset. There were complaints that the new book invalidated or nearly invalidated existing Blood Angels armies, but that's hardly a problem if you don't own anything yet.
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Jan 14, 2015 18:31
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Yeah that as well plus getting all of those formations makes it a good time to start a Blood Angels army.
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Jan 14, 2015 18:40
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TheChirurgeon posted:1k Sons having a sorcerer aspiring champion was fine back when that meant having a champion with a S9 AP2 weapon via the Bolt of Change psychic power. It helped alleviate the fact that your squads had no heavy weapons. Now it's just a huge burden. It would be simple just to give the sorceror an extra Psychic power which when activated (one per turn) removes the slow and purposeful rule on the 1k squad. The down side being they lose the ability to relentless and it has to be cast to work. Its fluffy as its the sorceror guiding the squad, but also makes the squad tactically viable.
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Jan 14, 2015 18:43
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Or you could just make it that the Sorcerer replaces S&P with Relentless so long as he's alive and in the squad without having to cast a psychic power.
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Jan 14, 2015 18:46
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BULBASAUR posted:Are the orcs from the guy you always say has an incredibly painted ork army, or is it from the guy that you often say should play orks because he plays all his other armies like orks? From four of the guys who I say have awesome painted ork armies (Bryce, Jodi, Jordan and Scott). The guy who I say plays his armies (Necrons) like orks (Aaron), has accumulated a lot of them but painted none so far.
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Jan 14, 2015 18:46
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Foul Ole Ron posted:It would be simple just to give the sorceror an extra Psychic power which when activated (one per turn) removes the slow and purposeful rule on the 1k squad. The down side being they lose the ability to relentless and it has to be cast to work. Heavy Bolter option please. We'd finally have a good heavy bolter in this game. Or, as is typically the case these days, I'll wait for FW's superior version. Heresy era Thousand Sons had cataphract robots that behave the same way, thematically, to Rubrics. Too bad the book got pushed back by at least another year 
Mango Polo fucked around with this message at 18:50 on Jan 14, 2015 |
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Jan 14, 2015 18:47
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SRM posted:This game looks loving incredible! Apocalypse games with fully painted armies, let alone ones painted to that standard, are a rare treat. One of the rules of this group is that all models must be painted.
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Jan 14, 2015 18:47
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Ghost Hand posted:One of the rules of this group is that all models must be painted. I'd never be allowed in!!!
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Jan 14, 2015 18:49
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Slimnoid posted:Or you could just make it that the Sorcerer replaces S&P with Relentless so long as he's alive and in the squad without having to cast a psychic power. That too is also good, but I thought it would be more fun to have the player choose if its better to use it or not. My CSM army would be 1k sons but they suck so bad at the moment.
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Jan 14, 2015 18:54
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serious gaylord posted:I'd never be allowed in!!! Their ultimate goal is to be able to create photos that look like the battle reports from White Dwarf (when it HAD Battle Reports)...
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Jan 14, 2015 18:54
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Thousand Sons used to be kind of okay because they go to fire their weapons at 24" after moving. Now everyone can do that. Tzeentch Terminators were scary way back in the day because they had two wounds.  Cult Terminators.
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Jan 14, 2015 19:15
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BULBASAUR posted:Whoever closed the GBS skelington thread is literally a monster theres a new one http://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3694065&userid=0&perpage=40&pagenumber=1 and another secret one 
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Jan 14, 2015 19:21
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Pendent posted:I've been vaguely wanting to get into 40k for a couple of years now and was finally convinced to go watch a game by a coworker last night. Shield of Baal: Deathstorm contains a mini rulebook and everything you need to start having fun with coworkers. At some point you're gonna want to pick up the Blood Angels codex, of course, and get some tactical squads going and then add this and that and blah blah. My advice is to pick up the aforementioned set, sell off the tyranid half for $60 or something, and use that to buy your codex. At that point you can put together a decent starting force for around $150 with all your painting and modeling supplies thrown in. Not too shabby for this ridiculously expensive hobby, and from the units you will have from the set you can figure out what else you wanna do.
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Jan 14, 2015 19:24
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Foul Ole Ron posted:That too is also good, but I thought it would be more fun to have the player choose if its better to use it or not. My thoughts for game design and unit creation is firmly planted in the KISS mentality (keep it simple stupid). Having to remember to cast yet another psychic power (that you may not even do successfully/have enough warp charges/gets DTW'd) just to be able to move in a functional manner is yet another bit of bookkeeping in a game that's clogged with it. Now, if you want to give a 1kson unit something fun (and terrifying), allow the sorcerer to cast Force on the entire unit and have it apply to their bolters.
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Jan 14, 2015 19:34
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PierreTheMime posted:Just to make sure I'm not crazy, in 7th Edition Monstrous Creatures target models using standard Line of Sight rules as per any other unit, right? There's no specific restriction that their LoS is drawn from the end of their weapon or anything like there used to be? The new White Dwarf Tyrannocyte rules are whats tripping tyranid people up on MC rules. Does it measure from each of the 5 weapon barrels to its targets or can the mob hit one thing 5 times regardless of the creatures shape because it can spin, etc.
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Jan 14, 2015 19:36
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Evor 3 posted:The new White Dwarf Tyrannocyte rules are whats tripping tyranid people up on MC rules. Does it measure from each of the 5 weapon barrels to its targets or can the mob hit one thing 5 times regardless of the creatures shape because it can spin, etc. I haven't seen the white dwarf. What exactly does it say?
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Jan 14, 2015 20:07
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Aren't MC rules the same for Infantry when drawing LOS so it'd be from the chest of the creature ?
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Jan 14, 2015 20:22
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HiveCommander posted:Were they good back in 4th? For some reason I thought they were, since AP3 bolters are every Marine player's worst nightmare and transports were deathtraps. They were really good back in 3rd and 4th, Ap3, steadfast and ignored ranged attacks less than str 6.
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Jan 14, 2015 20:43
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Macdeo Lurjtux posted:They were really good back in 3rd and 4th, Ap3, steadfast and ignored ranged attacks less than str 6. You're getting your CSM 'dexes mixed up there, dude. The first 3rd edition CSM book had TKsons as 23pt 2 wound fearless marines with bolters, slow and purposeful, and All is Dust which meant that only shooting attacks of S5 or higher could harm them; normal CC attacks worked just fine. The 3.5 dex had them at 24pt 2 wound fearless marines with S&P that could take any of the normal equipment a CSM marine could take (or at least, I don't see anything saying otherwise in my copy of the 3.5 book). They couldn't take any veteran skills, and were immune to the gift of chaos and mass mutation psychic powers. Aspiring Champions could become sorcerers, which allowed them to auto-pass any psychic tests required; in addition, terminators could be upgraded to rhuberic ones for +18pts per model (and gain +1 wound). Every model in a Chosen unit could become sorcerers, which lead to funny things a whole gaggle of them flying around on discs and throwing mass mutation around like candy. The 4th edition dex had them at 23pt 1 wound fearless models with a 4+ invuln, S&P (which at the time you had to roll 2d6 to move, and if the sorcerer died, it was reduced to 1d6), and AP3 bolters. Their main draw was in Bolt of Change on the sorcerer, which was 24" S8 AP1 assault 1, or Wind of Chaos which was a flamer template that wounded/glanced on a 4+. Gift of Chaos turned a targeted model into a Chaos Spawn which could be amusing sometimes; I once saw Wazdakka get turned into one on the first turn. 6th edition has them largely the same as 4th, just without the ability to pick psychic powers and being stuck with a weak psychic discipline.
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Jan 14, 2015 22:13
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Pendent posted:Why is that? The BA specific ruleset seems interesting from what I can see The vanilla SM book has a huge variety of options within it, so for someone new to the hobby it means you can cater to nearly any type of army you might fancy doing.
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Jan 14, 2015 22:29
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Don't listen to him. If you like the look, story and models of blood angels, go with blood angels. Death company rule, psychic dreadnoughts rule and nipple armour rules.
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Jan 14, 2015 22:33
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Cataphract posted:Don't listen to him. If you like the look, story and models of blood angels, go with blood angels. Death company rule, psychic dreadnoughts rule and nipple armour rules. Sanguinary Guard look neat at well. I think I'm going to grab a tactical squad this weekend and teach myself to paint miniatures!
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Jan 14, 2015 22:42
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Ugh what was the 2nd edition rules for Thousand Sons, I cannot for the life of me remember. I thought they had rules in 2nd edition. Found it these are really interesting models! http://forum.rpg.net/showthread.php?666060-40k-Second-Edition-Thousand-Sons-vs-Squats  quote:The regular Squats -- Longbeards (middle), Warriors (right) and Ancestor Lord (Colonel Tigh!) -- are all Hasslefree Grymn. The Berserkers (left) are Meteors from Confrontation. The vehicles are both Old Crow, and the Hearthguard is an AT-43 Red Blok Kolossus with an axe scrounged from a plastic Khador warjack. MarianLH and momotaro, you pretty much nailed it! Hollismason fucked around with this message at 22:49 on Jan 14, 2015 |
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Jan 14, 2015 22:45
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Pendent posted:Sanguinary Guard look neat at well. If you're going into a GW store they'll give you a free space marine and a painting lesson. Don't be dismayed if your first painting attempts are rubbish. It's actually very easy to get to a level of painting skill where you can produce decent looking models. Then, you can spend a lifetime refining those skills. Blood Angels were my first army. I started them around 96! I think I still have the first one I ever painted somewhere (it's atrocious). My more recent stuff looks like this  Cataphract fucked around with this message at 23:09 on Jan 14, 2015 |
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Jan 14, 2015 23:03
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HiveCommander posted:Were they good back in 4th? For some reason I thought they were, since AP3 bolters are every Marine player's worst nightmare and transports were deathtraps. They were pretty bad in 4th due to being expensive and universal 4+ cover making their 4+ invuln largely useless. I don't remember specifically to 2nd Edition, but certainly in 3rd and later Thousand Sons have never been good. They've always been somewhere between mediocre and steaming hot garbage.
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Jan 14, 2015 23:14
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