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Darth Walrus posted:ANN's Nick Creamer has been doing some cool and interesting breakdowns if you want to get into the show's cinematography, themes, and symbolism: Isn't he the "Nisemonogatari is not a fanservic-y show" dude? Yeah. He is. Not that he doesn't have some good observations but he's definitively the kind of dude that can (and will!) twist everything so that it can fit whatever he wants the symbolism to mean. Which is kinda of a problem with this kind of show.
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Jan 14, 2015 05:50
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trucutru posted:Isn't he the "Nisemonogatari is not a fanservic-y show" dude? He backs his observations here up with some pretty decent, consistent evidence. You got any specific criticisms of these breakdowns?
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Jan 14, 2015 06:08
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That's like not really a problem, everyone is free to interpret things as they see fit, as long as they can back it up. On the commentary for the Utena movie Ikuhara occasionally refuses to give a concrete explanation for some things because he'd rather the viewer decided for themselves.
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Jan 14, 2015 06:18
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Darth Walrus posted:He backs his observations here up with some pretty decent, consistent evidence. You got any specific criticisms of these breakdowns? Nope, his observations are fine.
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Jan 14, 2015 06:40
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Real subtle of you, Ikuhara
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Jan 14, 2015 07:59
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trucutru posted:Isn't he the "Nisemonogatari is not a fanservic-y show" dude? How is this a valid opinion?  That coming from someone who loves the poo poo out of (almost) everything -monogatari.
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Jan 14, 2015 14:52
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ViggyNash posted:How is this a valid opinion? I think that's a simplification of his opinion. I would probably describe his thesis as "what's going on in Nisemonogatari isn't really fanservice because fanservice is definitionally only there to please fans and for no other reason, and all the weird stuff in Nisemonogatari is there to make a point about intimacy or the use of the camera and is therefore something different; except the stuff about Mayoi because that stuff is totally fanservice and she is a terrible, terrible character and I would be substantially less ashamed of liking this show if she weren't in it."
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Jan 14, 2015 15:20
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it serves a purpose, uh, sometimes, but it also totally exists to give dudes huge boners like nobody was going 'drat, this is going to get creeps off, but we must do it... for our craft...'
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Jan 14, 2015 15:48
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Rand Brittain posted:I think that's a simplification of his opinion. Hmm. I think he gives the show some undeserved credit, but he makes good points. It's not so much that none of that was fanservice because it was not purposeless except to titillate the viewer, but that Shinbou was trying to make statements about the importance of directing in sexually charged moments, and about the distinction between fanservice and plot-relevant sexualization. Regardless, it's still a having cake/eating it too situation.
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Jan 14, 2015 15:50
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manga spoilers/maybe future anime spoilers it's bears all the way down (not my screenshot and I have no idea what the Japanese says)
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Jan 14, 2015 16:48
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The manga's way different from what's happened so far in the anime, though. But that particular point being accurate would not surprise me at all. Great Rumbler fucked around with this message at 18:42 on Jan 14, 2015 |
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Jan 14, 2015 18:39
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Aleksei Vasiliev posted:manga spoilers/maybe future anime spoilers Rough translation: Ginko: Sometimes I think I might be the weird one... Girl 1: Look isn't that sparrow cute? Girl 2: Uwaah! Girl 2: Oh, but the cat's trying to get it. Ginko: No that isn't a sparrow, that's a bear. You're also bears. And so am I. Black boxes 1-3: Cats are bears. Birds are too. Humans are too. Black box 4: Really, everyone's a bear but nobody seems to notice. (Rest is unrelated) So yeah, what you said.
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Jan 14, 2015 19:02
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Ya know, I see these analyses and see people talking about certain things, and hell, even see an interesting screenshot or gif and I wish I was watching that show; the intriguing, curiosity sparking one. All I'm getting is bored and moderately irritated. I'll give it one more episode because I'm apparently too generous with my free time, but I'm not optimistic. a kitten fucked around with this message at 20:12 on Jan 14, 2015 |
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Jan 14, 2015 19:31
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Once again, that writeup would be nice if it weren't for the fact that he goes AH YES BIRDS, LOADED SYMBOL OF FREEDOM without the show actually constructing that theme at all whatsoever. So yeah, kinda twisty.
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Jan 14, 2015 20:59
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ViggyNash posted:Hmm. I think he gives the show some undeserved credit, but he makes good points. Yeah, he has some interesting things to say but, in the end,  the show loves its fanservice. The review guy purposefully avoids mentioning the shitload of scenes where the male gaze is obvious (an example from the top of my head: when the older sis returns all sweaty from running a marathon) in order to support his thesis. quote:So no, I don’t think Nisemonogatari is a big fan of fanservice. In fact, I think it’s the ultimate, staggeringly coherent statement against it, complete with endless demonstrations of the ways sexuality really can be used to enhance and augment storytelling. And I could not be more freaking impressed. I mean, seriously? (Sorry about the derail)
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Jan 15, 2015 00:57
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MAy I have some quotes about toothbrushing
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Jan 15, 2015 01:26
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There is not a single Japanese writer who is making statements against fanservice using it. Like, they might use it as a punchline or something, but no one in Japan is like "Oh yeah, fanservice is mega bad, bro."
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Jan 15, 2015 01:40
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Beef Waifu posted:There is not a single Japanese writer who is making statements against fanservice using it. Like, they might use it as a punchline or something, but no one in Japan is like "Oh yeah, fanservice is mega bad, bro." He's given everything he can. There are no more heroes left in Japan.
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Jan 15, 2015 01:47
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I think Watanabe made like some statement in an interview about how moe anime was dumb, but that's the furthest I've seen of it and given how poorly his works do in Japan, I doubt a lot of otaku over there regard him well.
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Jan 15, 2015 01:48
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My copy of the first manga volume showed up and it definitely shares most of the themes of the show. I'm not fluent enough to easily make sense of it (no furigana  ) but here are some obvious bits from skimming it:The bear concept seems to be fuzzy like it is in the anime - perhaps fuzzier. In the manga the girls are seen as humans, as bears, and as bear-humans (goofy paws on hands, etc). Sometimes they're shown talking *to* their bear-selves and it's not clear to me what that means yet.  Like in the anime, Kureha is somewhat singled out as not being like the others, she's unique. Except in the manga it seems to be the case that she is *surrounded* by a herd of bears. The way Ginko becomes more animalistic in depiction when she starts thinking about how tasty Kureha is and then snaps out of it is interesting.  The court seems to exist in the manga just like the anime and it seems to hinge on the basic 'will you eat humans' decision just like in the anime. The impression I get is that in this case it's more direct and it's about Ginko struggling with her more animal instincts/desires.  (Sorry these images are full-size; I tried using timg but it doesn't work with spoiler tags.) Boys show up frequently in the manga and Kureha's school is co-ed in it. More complicated...
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Jan 15, 2015 01:53
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That is a question, indeed.
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Jan 15, 2015 01:54
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Beef Waifu posted:That is a question, indeed. Shabadadu.
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Jan 15, 2015 02:17
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laplace posted:Once again, that writeup would be nice if it weren't for the fact that he goes AH YES BIRDS, LOADED SYMBOL OF FREEDOM without the show actually constructing that theme at all whatsoever. So yeah, kinda twisty. I agree with his assertion about the first scene with the birds on the megaphones, that seems pretty clear to me. But then the rest of the bird symbols seem much murkier; like, if the birds represent freedom, then why is the teacher's symbol a bird? Why does Kureha move against the birds when she travels up the staircase to the roof to "prove her love"? Why all the birds at the memorial service? (okay that one you could say is because birds = freedom = escape = death but drat, that's pretty loving morbid)
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Jan 15, 2015 02:17
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I'm wondering (and it's getting discussion on that blog as well) if the birds might have the inverse symbolism - caged, domesticated living ornaments. The school architecture does have a certain birdcage vibe to it, with that mass of narrow, sharply-outlined windows, and even the interior design is sort of cage-like.
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Jan 15, 2015 04:26
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Darth Walrus posted:I'm wondering (and it's getting discussion on that blog as well) if the birds might have the inverse symbolism - caged, domesticated living ornaments. The school architecture does have a certain birdcage vibe to it, with that mass of narrow, sharply-outlined windows, and even the interior design is sort of cage-like. Yeah, that's a good idea, it seems like it would fit a lot better. The stock footage could definitely have a "caged birds" motif as well, now that you mention it: 
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Jan 15, 2015 05:52
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Exit, pursued by a bear.
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Jan 15, 2015 06:59
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Seriously, what the gently caress am I watching?
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Jan 15, 2015 07:03
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XboxPants posted:Yeah, that's a good idea, it seems like it would fit a lot better. The stock footage could definitely have a "caged birds" motif as well, now that you mention it:
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Jan 15, 2015 11:14
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Kureha lives in the Psycho House and the interior is also the Psycho House. Well. Sharkopath fucked around with this message at 16:27 on Jan 15, 2015 |
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Jan 15, 2015 16:21
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'You eat like a bird.'
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Jan 15, 2015 16:22
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Sharkopath posted:Kureha lives in the Psycho House and the interior is also the Psycho House. And the Wall of Severance looks like the hall carpet in The Overlook Hotel.
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Jan 15, 2015 16:47
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In reference to the previously-linked Monogatari post:quote:Are there any pieces on your blog that you don't feel confident about with hindsight?
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Jan 16, 2015 03:19
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If you want to learn a little more about lesbians in Japan, this is actually a decent, well-sourced article despite the site it's on.quote:Lesbian double suicide was not uncommon at that time, accounting for around thirty percent of all suicides between 1932 and 1935. 
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Jan 16, 2015 22:23
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That was an interesting and somewhat depressing read.
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Jan 16, 2015 22:41
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The academic article from which it draws that statistic (and a good deal of other information) is basically pure  , and probably still quite show-relevant. This being a story about yuri, I'd be surprised if we don't have at least one attempted suicide in the remaining episodes.
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Jan 16, 2015 23:02
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Darth Walrus posted:The academic article from which it draws that statistic (and a good deal of other information) is basically pure This does not seem like it's gonna be a fluffy happy idealistic show, no. I'd be surprised as well.
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Jan 16, 2015 23:11
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Darth Walrus posted:I'm wondering (and it's getting discussion on that blog as well) if the birds might have the inverse symbolism - caged, domesticated living ornaments. The school architecture does have a certain birdcage vibe to it, with that mass of narrow, sharply-outlined windows, and even the interior design is sort of cage-like. It wouldn't be the first time Ikuhara's used that metaphor, mind you: 
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Jan 18, 2015 12:29
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Ok what the characters say and the imagery in the episode is giving me ideas on what they could mean On Birds -The caged bird aspect could still be an interpretation, but I'm leaning more toward the idea of flocks more than anything. The funeral this episode had a bunch of the same bird but noticeably just one of them was different. The exclusion ceremony imagery also leads me to think this. When the girls climb the stairs they are going against the flow, against what the majority want. That lonely bird though, looked very fishlike. On the invisible storm- It looks like its a stand in for both bullying at a micro and macro level. The exclusion ceremony definitely reminds me of the concept of singling out a member in a classroom that gets bullied on. At a macroscopic level its a stand in for society in general singling out entire groups to be preyed on by the majority. Its an interesting concept, because you wont find many people that wont denounce bullying but finding people that will go against the "Other" is much harder. The others are naturally excluded from the ceremony On Bears gently caress if I know! Ginko and Lulu seem to genuinely care for Kureha at a level that isnt "I'm going to eat you". Ginko says it a lot sure, but I'm guessing she's actually repressing those base desires because she finds Kureha's love admirable? They still aren't part of the "invisible storm" and they seem to go out of their way to help the "other" to the point that they'll attack members of both the storm and other bears. On the other hand, the other bears have been shown to be greedy, manipulative and mean. On Courts They seem to act on entirely random ways that dont make sense but the outcome is always favorable for Ginko and Lulu. If they really are heroines, then does that make the courts a force of good too?
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Jan 19, 2015 22:52
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Cao Ni Ma posted:On Bears gently caress if I know! Ginko and Lulu seem to genuinely care for Kureha at a level that isnt "I'm going to eat you". Ginko says it a lot sure, but I'm guessing she's actually repressing those base desires because she finds Kureha's love admirable? They still aren't part of the "invisible storm" and they seem to go out of their way to help the "other" to the point that they'll attack members of both the storm and other bears. On the other hand, the other bears have been shown to be greedy, manipulative and mean. It looks like Ginko and Lulu had to make a deal with the devil this episode. In order to save Sumika, they had to reiterate their adherance to the 'predatory lesbian' model allowed by the Court of Yuri and kill another innocent girl in her place. The obvious implication is that working within a flawed system can only get you so far - in order to make genuine change, you have to reject and rebel against that system. Ginko and Lulu don't want to be simple predators, but they're trapped by their roles, and I'd guess it's Sumika who'll have to free them in the long run. Another Creamer writeup, if anyone's interested in those. Darth Walrus fucked around with this message at 23:27 on Jan 19, 2015 |
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Jan 19, 2015 23:17
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Ginko and Lulu's magical-girl transformations make me think, this is a new spin to the old Nanoha phase, "you gonna get befriended."
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Jan 19, 2015 23:48
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