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Magrov posted:Found the history behind the "jerk off" cartoon. it's a direct response to the following email: I can't believe he was stupid enough to think this guy wasn't taking the piss.
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# ? Jan 15, 2015 16:47 |
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# ? Jun 3, 2024 23:40 |
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Tatum Girlparts posted:And boy for someone with zero issues with Jews he sure slobbers on a lot of antisemitic knobs.
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# ? Jan 15, 2015 16:47 |
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It's my guess that, internally, Latuff is as anti-Semitic as someone is racist who crosses the street when they see a black person walking on a sidewalk. As in, certainly a little bit, but not violently so. That's my reading of his internal thoughts, which is really just a guess. He definitely has a blind spot for legitimate Jew-haters as long as it's in support of The Cause, which isn't very forgivable. As for what he does externally, he's passionately anti-Israel. There's something to be said for that. He also equates- sometimes vaguely, sometimes explicitly- the treatment of Palestinians to the Holocaust, which is simplistic and incorrect. It looks aces on a poster, but it falls apart upon further inspection. He's also an embarrassing hack about U.S./Cuba relations. Like Michael Ramirez levels of no-givesies-backsies rear end-covering when he turns out to be wrong. You know what country he should really give the thumbs up to for its drat-near-universal tolerance of hate speech from any direction? The good ol' US of A. But he won't. That's OK. We know you love us, Latuff.
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# ? Jan 15, 2015 16:48 |
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Rorus Raz posted:It's an older cartoon, and Latuff has proven that he's capable of learning from his mistakes. Has he, though? Like, about this stuff has he given any indication that he's learned anything, because it seems since then he's just shifted from 'Israel/the Jews will silence any critic of them by calling them anti-semites' (again any proof of this beyond some groups saying 'that's anti-semetic' and some people going 'ok' and others going 'shut up'), to a more personal 'I BET ISRAEL FUCKIN HATES ME FOR SPEAKING THE TRUTH' poo poo.
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# ? Jan 15, 2015 16:49 |
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Mehuyael posted:Did he ever actually say 'yeah, sorry, I was antisemetic at the time but I've learned my lesson'?
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# ? Jan 15, 2015 16:50 |
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I do think that lifting imagery and symbols from the Holocaust and Nazi era Germany, even in cartoons that are more objectively Israel-critical and less anti-semitic, is not a great plan, because the Holocaust is so firmly planted in the public consciousness as meaning a very specific thing that it comes off as cheap manipulation and erases any points that could be made by drawing comparisons. Like, I realize that, particularly with regard to Israel, the idea is to access images that are that embedded to "tweak the noses" of authority (and to turn around claims that actions of Palestine are in any way another Holocaust), but I think, instead, that it just tweaks everyone's noses. Latuff does it kind of a lot, and it usually makes me gloss over his cartoons.
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# ? Jan 15, 2015 16:54 |
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Rorus Raz posted:I doubt he'll ever come out and say it because his critics will use it to discredit him, but there's marked difference between cartoons then and now. Clearly he had to be thinking he was crossing a line and backed off a bit. But for all I know he could just as well have become better at hiding his antisemitism. I think I'll just not participate in any discussion about Latuff anymore, there's no point in it.
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# ? Jan 15, 2015 16:54 |
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Bicyclops posted:I do think that lifting imagery and symbols from the Holocaust and Nazi era Germany, even in cartoons that are more objectively Israel-critical and less anti-semitic, is not a great plan, because the Holocaust is so firmly planted in the public consciousness as meaning a very specific thing that it comes off as cheap manipulation and erases any points that could be made by drawing comparisons. Like, I realize that, particularly with regard to Israel, the idea is to access images that are that embedded to "tweak the noses" of authority (and to turn around claims that actions of Palestine are in any way another Holocaust), but I think, instead, that it just tweaks everyone's noses. Latuff does it kind of a lot, and it usually makes me gloss over his cartoons. It would be appropriate if Palestine was another Holocaust, but it's not. This kind of exaggeration provides ammunition to people who support the status quo and riles up a lot of uninformed people who wind up looking stupid carrying the pictures around on the end of sticks.
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# ? Jan 15, 2015 16:58 |
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I am also hesitant to wave off the offensive cartoons of someone who hasn't apologized for them or to assume that his views have somehow gotten better simply because he's backed off slightly, but I don't think that eliminates the merit of Latuff's better cartoons or that we have to immediately write off all of his work as the ravings of a furious anti-semite.
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# ? Jan 15, 2015 17:05 |
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Kurtofan posted:I can't believe he was stupid enough to think this guy wasn't taking the piss. That's literally how he views defenders of Israel so it's more that it fits perfectly into his world view.
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# ? Jan 15, 2015 17:11 |
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Taking a break from Latuffchat, this might be the most effort Catalino has put into a cartoon in years. He's never had to c&p the Charlie Hebdo logo before. That wasn't in his vast clipart archive; he had to actually use Google and GIMP and everything.
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# ? Jan 15, 2015 17:14 |
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Here's Latuff's thinking, relatively close to the time he drew those Hollywood cartoons, in his own words. Quoted in full because this argument has gone on for a long time, so why not."Latuff posted:Latuff on allegued anti-Semitic cartoons I still think his Hollywood cartoon was crap.
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# ? Jan 15, 2015 17:21 |
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^^^- That makes a lot of sense. I think he means well but is too often oblivious as to how his cartoons could be misinterpreted.Gilganixon posted:It would be appropriate if Palestine was another Holocaust, but it's not. This kind of exaggeration provides ammunition to people who support the status quo and riles up a lot of uninformed people who wind up looking stupid carrying the pictures around on the end of sticks. The problem he has is that there isn't really any first world parallel in recent history to what the Palestinians have gone through, so he goes straight for the most obvious even though it doesn't really fit. I mean Israel has done terrible poo poo but it's not at the death camp level. (I'm a lot more sympathetic to his comparisons with Apartheid though.) Kegluneq fucked around with this message at 17:26 on Jan 15, 2015 |
# ? Jan 15, 2015 17:22 |
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Would this be considered anti-semitic?
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# ? Jan 15, 2015 17:23 |
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Ralepozozaxe posted:
Yes, it was. It caused a minor scandal among idiots who pretended it invoked the blood libel.
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# ? Jan 15, 2015 17:25 |
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Ralepozozaxe posted:
Pretty much any thing can be considered anti-semitic if someone wants it to be.
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# ? Jan 15, 2015 17:31 |
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Gilganixon posted:I still think his Hollywood cartoon was crap. The video store was also crap. I understood the message perfectly, but it is very easily re-interpreted into Holocaust denialism.
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# ? Jan 15, 2015 17:31 |
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Gilganixon posted:Here's Latuff's thinking, relatively close to the time he drew those Hollywood cartoons, in his own words. Quoted in full because this argument has gone on for a long time, so why not. Thanks for posting this. I don't agree with his reasoning all of the time (there are sentences where he really seems to get it and sentences where he really seems to not get it!), but it does really clarify his thinking behind things, and at least indicates that he thinks about his own work in the context of multiple power systems and is seeking to evolve. it's actually fascinating to watch people self-critique work, even if it a sort of defensive reaction to complaints about it.
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# ? Jan 15, 2015 17:32 |
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vyelkin posted:Two city employees in Hamilton were fired for bringing pot brownies to work at a public works site and sharing them with an unknowing coworker, who had an "adverse reaction" and had to be taken to the hospital (he recovered). I have a friend whose former roommate had pot brownies in the fridge, and another ate a whole batch of them, not knowing what they were. He had to go to the hospital. Apparently he ate waay too many, and took about a week to recover.
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# ? Jan 15, 2015 17:33 |
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Hitler B. Natural posted:Yes, it was. It caused a minor scandal among idiots who pretended it invoked the blood libel. Speaking of Brit-toons, Bell got into some flak for this one From what I recall the objections were the puppets and the prominence of the star of david. Mister Beeg posted:I have a friend whose former roommate had pot brownies in the fridge, and another ate a whole batch of them, not knowing what they were. Let this be a lesson to not eat whole plates of brownies you just find around.
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# ? Jan 15, 2015 17:44 |
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El Scotch posted:Pretty much any thing can be considered anti-semitic if someone wants it to be. That doesn't mean the question is irrelevant or that we aren't obviated from a duty to seriously consider it with regards to this cartoon.
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# ? Jan 15, 2015 17:48 |
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1 2 3 4 Won't someone think of the children in Nigeria, etc etc.? 5 6 7 8
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# ? Jan 15, 2015 17:48 |
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CONFIRMED: a cartoonist fervently denounces the crimes against humanity committed by people that happen to be Jewish. Whew, that was complicated.
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# ? Jan 15, 2015 17:49 |
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Kurtofan posted:French laws protect against anti-Muslim speech, Mohammed caricatures just aren't considered anti-Muslim speech.
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# ? Jan 15, 2015 17:49 |
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All hail President Romneybush!
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# ? Jan 15, 2015 17:50 |
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Waah! Obama is doing something that might cost taxpayers money! I don't care if it's a good idea TAXES BAD ME NO LIKE TAXES MOMMY
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# ? Jan 15, 2015 17:50 |
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Ah yes, the famous Yemen-Cuba land border that we learned about in geography class, also gently caress you.
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# ? Jan 15, 2015 17:51 |
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That was good and 100% correct. Why the shrug?
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# ? Jan 15, 2015 17:53 |
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# ? Jan 15, 2015 17:55 |
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D.N. Nation posted:It's my guess that, internally, Latuff is as anti-Semitic as someone is racist who crosses the street when they see a black person walking on a sidewalk. As in, certainly a little bit, but not violently so. That's my reading of his internal thoughts, which is really just a guess. Why? What on earth has he ever done that would cause you to think that? Has he ever done any cartoons that were critical of Jewish people specifically? Has he ever implied that they are specifically hook nosed, or greedy, or baby eating or whatever? No one can deny that he has produced some tasteless cartoons using Semitic imagery, but it's pretty hard to avoid using it at all when Israel builds its own national identity on tasteless usage of Semitic imagery and the notion that they have the right to commit ethnic cleansing because Palestinians belong to a different ethnoreligious group. It also doesn't help that Israel's accusations of anti-Semitism are pretty much worthless. This is clearly an indictment of the Jewish habit of kidnapping babies to bake their totally unchristian synagogue bread and not merely a criticism a world leader for sanctioning brutal military campaigns, while this is just a harsh truth from a noble defender of the state, and not a hateful labeling of someone you disagree with as harmful stereotypes and race tratiors. I'm not disagreeing with the rest of your post; he's definitely a dude whose view could stand some nuance, but his views seem to be limited to nations, rather than people, and his critics are more interested in conflating Israel-criticism and anti-Semitism than teaching people about anti-Semitism. EDIT: I just realized I missed a page and found the Hollywood Jew cartoons. I concede that he has shown prejudice beyond hating on governments Zulily Zoetrope fucked around with this message at 18:12 on Jan 15, 2015 |
# ? Jan 15, 2015 17:56 |
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I'm not sure this cartoon actually makes any sense, but I like it anyway.
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# ? Jan 15, 2015 17:59 |
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I'm not racist against the Iroquois. My criticism is exclusively limited against the Iroquois nation which just happens to coincidentally use Iroquois imagery.
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# ? Jan 15, 2015 18:00 |
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Brannock posted:That was good and 100% correct. Why the shrug? It's BorsMediocreCartoon.jpg
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# ? Jan 15, 2015 18:02 |
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Kajeesus posted:Why? What on earth has he ever done that would cause you to think that? Has he ever done any cartoons that were critical of Jewish people specifically? Has he ever implied that they are specifically hook nosed, or greedy, or baby eating or whatever? "That's my reading of his internal thoughts, which is really just a guess." It's the comfortability with anti-Jew hacks that gives me pause. Again. Just a guess. Take it for how much a guess is worth.
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# ? Jan 15, 2015 18:04 |
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Randler posted:I'm not racist against the Iroquois. My criticism is exclusively limited against the Iroquois nation which just happens to coincidentally use Iroquois imagery. Do you truly believe Israel stands for every Jews?Just because it uses Jewish imagery? Does Saudi Arabia gets a pass because they put the Shahada on their flag? Kurtofan fucked around with this message at 18:11 on Jan 15, 2015 |
# ? Jan 15, 2015 18:04 |
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colonel_korn posted:4 Won't someone think of the children in Nigeria, etc etc.? I like the smiley face on the Boko Haram logotype. Cat Mattress fucked around with this message at 18:06 on Jan 15, 2015 |
# ? Jan 15, 2015 18:04 |
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Brannock posted:That was good and 100% correct. Why the shrug? Kinda weird to have stuff like 'meh cartoons' and 'my brave brave doodles' and all in a cartoon supporting them.
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# ? Jan 15, 2015 18:07 |
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Randler posted:I'm not racist against the Iroquois. My criticism is exclusively limited against the Iroquois nation which just happens to coincidentally use Iroquois imagery. Your gimmick is as tired as your arguments.
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# ? Jan 15, 2015 18:08 |
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Brannock posted:That was good and 100% correct. Why the shrug? Maybe he's wondering if Bors reads this thread.
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# ? Jan 15, 2015 18:10 |
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# ? Jun 3, 2024 23:40 |
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PassTheRemote posted:Maybe he's wondering if Bors reads this thread. Someone literally said that in this thread so I would assume so, yes ;3
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# ? Jan 15, 2015 18:14 |