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D.N. Nation posted:"That's my reading of his internal thoughts, which is really just a guess." Yeah, I missed a page of the thread when I quoted that. Fair enough.
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Jan 15, 2015 18:14
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OrthoTrot posted:That doesn't mean the question is irrelevant or that we aren't obviated from a duty to seriously consider it with regards to this cartoon. I have pondered the question and I have determined it's not an antisemitic, next question?
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Jan 15, 2015 18:16
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Latuff is cool and good and this thread is lame and bad, thank you for reading this post.
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Jan 15, 2015 18:16
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R. Mute posted:Latuff is cool and good and this thread is lame and bad, thank you for reading this post. is this post anti-semitic?
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Jan 15, 2015 18:17
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Kurtofan posted:Do you truly believe Israel stands for every Jews?Just because it uses Jewish imagery? It stands as much for every Jew as any other nation state stands for its national ethnicity. And you can bet your arse that people'd call Islamophobia if you'd do the equivalent of a Latuff caricature and portrayed Saudis (or any other nation in the region) with its established stereotypes. Like, for example, all those scimitar swinging beard lords conservative cartoonists like to draw for Afghans or their bearded monster mullahs for Iran. Yet for some reason a lot of people in this thread seem really eager to cut Latuff all the slack in the world because they happen to align more closely to his political positions than to those of said right-wing cartoonists.
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Jan 15, 2015 18:17
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It'll grow back.
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Jan 15, 2015 18:18
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Latuff is not anti-semetic he has never once advocated for the specific targeting of Jews due to their religion, nor has he ever criticized any actual Jewish religious practice. The man isn't some Islamic extremist or neo-nazi, he's a atheist/leftist with a hard on for extremely metal political cartoons. The dude is a classic anti-authoritarian.
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Jan 15, 2015 18:18
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Tatum Girlparts posted:Kinda weird to have stuff like 'meh cartoons' and 'my brave brave doodles' and all in a cartoon supporting them. In fairness I'm pretty sure the "brave cartoonist" thing in the last panel is tongue in cheek. But yeah anyways the  was just because I guess I was waiting for a punchline that never seemed to arrive. Maybe it's just my general aversion to the four-panel thing that he and Rall (among others) are so fond of. They rarely seem to make an effective point.
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Jan 15, 2015 18:20
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Gilganixon posted:is this post anti-semitic?
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Jan 15, 2015 18:20
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Gilganixon posted:is this post anti-semitic? Pretty much any thing can be considered anti-semitic if someone wants it to be.
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Jan 15, 2015 18:20
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Gonna hang on to this one for later. Rorus Raz posted:I think he gets called antisemitic by Israelis so much that he doubles down on some poo poo to tweak their noses without any self-awareness that's he's giving critics ammo. That's my understanding too, and frankly it's a lot like Tinsley's assertion that calling him out on his racism hast lost all meaning just because he feigns innocence over poo poo like "rodent day." That said, Latuff owns and while his perceived antisemitism can damage his message, it doesn't negate it by any means and I appreciate that he's one of the few prominent cartoonists calling Israel out on its poo poo.
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Jan 15, 2015 18:21
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Satsuki Kiryuin posted:Latuff is not anti-semetic he has never once advocated for the specific targeting of Jews due to their religion, nor has he ever criticized any actual Jewish religious practice. The man isn't some Islamic extremist or neo-nazi, he's a atheist/leftist with a hard on for extremely metal political cartoons. The dude is a classic anti-authoritarian. Well, he seems to have a bit of a hardon for Russia and China(but only when they are in direct opposition to the US or Israel), which does make him seem like a bit of a hypocrite at times. 
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Jan 15, 2015 18:22
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Look at that hooked nose. This guy is clearly a nazi.
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Jan 15, 2015 18:22
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R. Mute posted:maybe we should discuss it for like a thousand pages. maybe look through my post history for gotcha quotes. I think the discussion was fairly civil and level-headed and resulted in someone posting a long essay by Latuff that was an interesting read, R. Mute.
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Jan 15, 2015 18:23
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Randler posted:It stands as much for every Jew as any other nation state stands for its national ethnicity. This is dumb. US foreign policy is generally terrible, ham-handed, barely rational and extremely violent but this view doesn't mean I hate yanks. And Latuff doesn't draw Jews using racial stereotypes (aside from ultra-orthodox settlers in his cartoons who have beards, quelle horreur) - nothing comparable to the treatment of Arabs in almost every Western cartoon of the left or right. Saint Isaias Boner fucked around with this message at 18:27 on Jan 15, 2015 |
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Jan 15, 2015 18:23
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Considering the fact that Latuff goes a lot of sensitive places other cartoonists refuse to go because of lack of balls, I'll continue to applaud him as having the sack to actually try and push the medium/discourse.
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Jan 15, 2015 18:24
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Satsuki Kiryuin posted:Considering the fact that Latuff goes a lot of sensitive places other cartoonists refuse to go because of lack of balls, I'll continue to applaud him as having the sack to actually try and push the medium/discourse. He's definitely one of the most influential cartoonists around these days. I even saw some of his cartoons plastered onto mailboxes here in Norway around the Obama visit a couple of years back.
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Jan 15, 2015 18:25
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HA! That is beautiful and true! 
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Jan 15, 2015 18:26
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e: oops, this cartoon was from last week
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Jan 15, 2015 18:27
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It is also okay to be critical of specific cartoons by a cartoonist (or comments on said cartoons, or the sentiment behind them) as going too far or having problems while still acknowledging that their larger body of work as a whole is poignant and praiseworthy.
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Jan 15, 2015 18:27
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Is that last line real or am I just hallucinating it?
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Jan 15, 2015 18:28
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Bicyclops posted:I think the discussion was fairly civil and level-headed and resulted in someone posting a long essay by Latuff that was an interesting read, R. Mute.
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Jan 15, 2015 18:29
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It doesn't help that Israel puts the Star of David on their flag and Cries Antisemitism at every available opportunity. They very clearly use it as a shield to excuse their behavior and obfuscate any and all criticism that comes their way. They want to portray any negative comments towards them as a slap in the face of jews everywhere. Remember this a country where Kirschen holds opinions that a not-insignificant amount of the populace apparently shares.
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Jan 15, 2015 18:30
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Latuff is a god tier cartoonist in the fact that he always gets his message across in his cartoons.
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Jan 15, 2015 18:30
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Samurai Sanders posted:Is that last line real or am I just hallucinating it? My eyes refused to see that cartoon at all until you quoted it. I'm still not sure if it's some horrible mirage. Even for an old Ramirez that's a terrible thing.
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Jan 15, 2015 18:31
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R. Mute posted:I've already read it and also it may have been relatively civil this time, but it's still dumb as h*ck - you're all rehashing the same bullshit arguments that have been rehashed a thousand times before and will be rehashed a thousand times again. And at least 90% of those arguments are either born out of people here being too dumb to understand even simple cartoons or out of people just having an axe to grind so they fish for whatever out of context bullshit they can find to fit their idiot narrative. Like look at this, two posts above yours: There are always going to be bad posts in a discussion (I'm assuming you'll edit in whatever the bad post was), but with new cartoons that discuss issues that have been brought up before, not every conversation which addresses the same issues is a re-hash, unless the cartoons themselves are. Note every post can consist of "That cartoon, like all of them, was good. Thanks for reading my opinion. Well, bye." Sometimes it is okay to to discuss things.
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Jan 15, 2015 18:32
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Samurai Sanders posted:Is that last line real or am I just hallucinating it? Nope, the Reverend Wright actually said something to that effect (actually a little bit worse).
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Jan 15, 2015 18:33
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El Scotch posted:I have pondered the question and I have determined it's not an antisemitic, next question? Fair enough. I agree. But what you said at first seemed to suggest that because anti semitism could be read into anything we should pretty much ignore accusations of it. If there's another meaning to what you said I'd love to hear it. It just sounds like my work colleagues when I point out sexist stuff. "Well people can be offended by anything ". Technically true, but it's putting the emphasis for the offence squarely on the person offended. As if it's all subjective and we shouldn't even bother having some kind of social standard of acceptable behaviour.
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Jan 15, 2015 18:36
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spacetoaster posted:Nope, the Reverend Wright actually said something to that effect (actually a little bit worse).
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Jan 15, 2015 18:36
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Shugojin posted:I don't think so? No matter what some hardcore Israel supporters say, disagreeing with/criticizing the Israeli government's policies doesn't fall under anti-semitism rules. I think.
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Jan 15, 2015 18:37
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Bicyclops posted:There are always going to be bad posts in a discussion (I'm assuming you'll edit in whatever the bad post was), but with new cartoons that discuss issues that have been brought up before, not every conversation which addresses the same issues is a re-hash, unless the cartoons themselves are. Note every post can consist of "That cartoon, like all of them, was good. Thanks for reading my opinion. Well, bye." Sometimes it is okay to to discuss things. I, too, want this thread to be more open to discussion and not just shut everyone of them down by crying 'derail' or posting the 'can't handle' gif, but this discussion just plays into this thread's inherent stupidity and is just so dang terrible.
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Jan 15, 2015 18:44
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spacetoaster posted:Nope, the Reverend Wright actually said something to that effect (actually a little bit worse). The panel is still bad and makes no sense because Obama never endorsed that idea.
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Jan 15, 2015 18:46
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InequalityGodzilla posted:Formally boycotting Israel is a crime in the United States that can be punished by 50000 dollar fines for each offense. So apparently in the US criticizing Israel is fine but actually trying to do something to pressure them is not. is this a real thing?
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Jan 15, 2015 18:46
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Samurai Sanders posted:Wait, that line didn't come from Ramirez? Holy poo poo. Are you familiar with Reverend Wright? That dude is an off the chain racist bigot. Heck this dude did the marriage ceremony for Obama and baptised his kids. Obama called him his inspiration and put him on some religious leadership committee.  *edit* Satsuki Kiryuin posted:The panel is still bad and makes no sense because Obama never endorsed that idea. Ha ha, whatever.
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Jan 15, 2015 18:49
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Atlas Smugged
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Jan 15, 2015 18:50
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Satsuki Kiryuin posted:The panel is still bad and makes no sense because Obama never endorsed that idea. It's a classic Guilty by Association argument.
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Jan 15, 2015 18:50
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Yeah, because the Reverend is respected religious leader in his community, I fail to see how his views offer a relevant criticism of Obama.
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Jan 15, 2015 18:50
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spacetoaster posted:Ha ha, whatever. At what time, ever, has Obama expressed on opinion of blacks relating to the Lewinsky scandal or the government inventing AIDS?
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Jan 15, 2015 18:52
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Broken Cog posted:It's a classic Guilty by Association argument. More like guilt by being totally fine with this dude for years, then it became a public embarrassment and dropping him. 
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Jan 15, 2015 18:53
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R. Mute posted:Except the discussion, like every single one of these many many discussions I've read, went like this: someone posts a Latuff cartoon, an idiot comes in and says 'Well try to say Latuff isn't an anti-semite this time, checkmate losers' and the discussion quickly derails into people posting the exact same Latuff cartoons again and again. I didn't even read all the pages of the discussion because it was so goddamn bad, but let me take a guess at which cartoons were posted: The Gaza Flotilla cartoon with the octopus, the one depicting Abbas as a Jew, maybe the one where the Jewish child in the Nazi ghetto says he's Palestinian, whatever. Now let me guess at the posters involved: Tatum Girlparts, DN Nation, loquacius being milquetoast and boring as hell, probably Randler too with the way things are going these days. Am I close to the mark? This was my first time reading it, to be honest, and I'm sure megathread cycles can be annoying for more active participants, but other posters were involved, who had more nuanced things to say. Some of the posts were indeed bad and many of the bad ones were posted by the people you mention, but to be honest, this was probably the worst one, which contributes absolutely nothing, uses ye olde "cool and good" without any commentary, and has the same old smug "I post in a different thread in the same exact forum, whose culture is slightly different, and therefore am infinitely superior" crud that encourages the worthless, cheerleading-whtout-thought slapfights which it purports to dislike: R. Mute posted:Latuff is cool and good and this thread is lame and bad, thank you for reading this post.
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Jan 15, 2015 18:54
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