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Baronjutter posted:I think actual studies though have shown it's more to do with the people around you. People just need to make more than their peers. Unless you have the pride of ownership.
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Jan 15, 2015 20:22
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Pride of ownership is having a 800 sq.ft condo when your friends rent,
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Jan 15, 2015 20:34
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I rent for $540 a month all utilities incl. with 2 other roommates in a 3bdrm town home in Edmonton and it loving rocks, I don't understand peoples fixation with owning, I'm perfectly happy renting, saving money on monthly expenses and having more money as a result to save/buy poo poo
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Jan 15, 2015 20:42
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Mederlock posted:I rent for $540 a month all utilities incl. with 2 other roommates in a 3bdrm town home in Edmonton and it loving rocks, I don't understand peoples fixation with owning, I'm perfectly happy renting, saving money on monthly expenses and having more money as a result to save/buy poo poo Saving is for children, don't you know that real adults get mortgages?  This thread needs a smug Canadian homeowner smily so badly. hopefully before it all crashes.
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Jan 15, 2015 20:45
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Kraftwerk posted:A friend of mine told me the Japanese situation is completely bizarre and counterintuitive compared to Canadian and American experience. After their asset price bubble in the 1990s apparently housing over there is almost always a depreciating asset. So buying a house there is like buying a car and you demolish your house and rebuild every 10 years? Here's a link to the Freakonomics podcast that discusses it, it's pretty interesting. With a little digging you can probably turn up the white paper that was originally written about it in the 00's. It's not every ten years, IIRC the "half-life" of a Japanese home is about 30 years, which is a lot less than in the US and other Western countries. People live in their houses for a long time, but people don't really want to buy a "used house" afterwards, hence why they get knocked down and re-built by the next owners.
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Jan 15, 2015 20:47
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Mederlock posted:I rent for $540 a month all utilities incl. with 2 other roommates in a 3bdrm town home in Edmonton and it loving rocks, I don't understand peoples fixation with owning, I'm perfectly happy renting, saving money on monthly expenses and having more money as a result to save/buy poo poo I guess the problem for a lot of people is that they were never raised to save. You spend everything you have. So if you rent at $1000 a month or buy at $2500 a month you aren't actually saving $1500 a month because you're some how throwing that $1500 on useless poo poo. So in the end the person who bought actually was forced to save something via their housing equity vs the person who rented for much cheaper but never saved a penny. The only reason the person with the house "saved" anything is because their mortgage forced them, at great expensive. This is apparently one of the big reasons the military pushes home-buying so hard, it's because they know their employees are loving idiots with money so it's better to force them into the bad deal of home ownership than the even worse deal of renting but saving absolutely nothing. Also soldiers in debt are a security risk, while soldiers depending on the government to help subsidize their mortgage have a vested interest in obeying the rules
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Jan 15, 2015 20:48
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Baronjutter posted:I guess the problem for a lot of people is that they were never raised to save. You spend everything you have. So if you rent at $1000 a month or buy at $2500 a month you aren't actually saving $1500 a month because you're some how throwing that $1500 on useless poo poo. So in the end the person who bought actually was forced to save something via their housing equity vs the person who rented for much cheaper but never saved a penny. The only reason the person with the house "saved" anything is because their mortgage forced them, at great expensive. This is apparently one of the big reasons the military pushes home-buying so hard, it's because they know their employees are loving idiots with money so it's better to force them into the bad deal of home ownership than the even worse deal of renting but saving absolutely nothing. Also soldiers in debt are a security risk, while soldiers depending on the government to help subsidize their mortgage have a vested interest in obeying the rules Yeah, forced saving via home ownership and automatic contributions to DB pension plans is basically what's going to save a lot of boomers who did dumb poo poo with all their other money.
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Jan 15, 2015 20:49
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Somewhere on my desk there is a paper on which a life-insurance salesman wrote "in-forced saving"[sic] as if this was a good thing, that people cannot save money without literally being forced to.
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Jan 15, 2015 21:09
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https://twitter.com/jason_kirby/status/555816559403597824?s=09 lol
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Jan 15, 2015 21:35
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Dreylad posted:Most Canadians don't save, that should be obvious. My pension in a beacon of light that doesn't rip off the taxpaper, much.
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Jan 15, 2015 21:37
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Baronjutter posted:I guess the problem for a lot of people is that they were never raised to save. You spend everything you have. So if you rent at $1000 a month or buy at $2500 a month you aren't actually saving $1500 a month because you're some how throwing that $1500 on useless poo poo. So in the end the person who bought actually was forced to save something via their housing equity vs the person who rented for much cheaper but never saved a penny. The only reason the person with the house "saved" anything is because their mortgage forced them, at great expensive. This is apparently one of the big reasons the military pushes home-buying so hard, it's because they know their employees are loving idiots with money so it's better to force them into the bad deal of home ownership than the even worse deal of renting but saving absolutely nothing. Also soldiers in debt are a security risk, while soldiers depending on the government to help subsidize their mortgage have a vested interest in obeying the rules I've been this dumbass for 9 months, but reading this thread and becoming much more aware of the importance of money management (which I never learned anything at all from my parents as they're terrible with money and lol school was even less useful). There's no reason I shouldn't have any savings considering I make around $2300 a month and have a pretty great deal on my living expenses. Do you guys have any advice/links to good starting points for someone who basically has no idea how to get started, especially considering the financial climate these days? Gonna go through the mega threads in BFC too.
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Jan 15, 2015 22:59
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Mederlock posted:I've been this dumbass for 9 months, but reading this thread and becoming much more aware of the importance of money management (which I never learned anything at all from my parents as they're terrible with money and lol school was even less useful). There's no reason I shouldn't have any savings considering I make around $2300 a month and have a pretty great deal on my living expenses. Do you guys have any advice/links to good starting points for someone who basically has no idea how to get started, especially considering the financial climate these days? Gonna go through the mega threads in BFC too. Check out the Canadian investing thread: http://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3569987 We've got a nice cordial little community going there. Read that, and when you get to the end let's have your questions.
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Jan 15, 2015 23:03
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There a Canadian finance thread out there somewhere. But the short of it is to get a TD e-series mutual fund and just dump money into it and forget about it. The best managed mutual fund is the one that you don't manage at all. But look over your finances. So long as your housing is coming in under 1/3 your income there's no reason anyone shouldn't be building an impressive savings/investment (other than existing debt). Cutting back on stupid poo poo can save soooo much money too.
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Jan 15, 2015 23:08
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Mederlock posted:I've been this dumbass for 9 months, but reading this thread and becoming much more aware of the importance of money management (which I never learned anything at all from my parents as they're terrible with money and lol school was even less useful). There's no reason I shouldn't have any savings considering I make around $2300 a month and have a pretty great deal on my living expenses. Do you guys have any advice/links to good starting points for someone who basically has no idea how to get started, especially considering the financial climate these days? Gonna go through the mega threads in BFC too. Don't put all your money into one pot and learn to love index funds like the S&P 500. Bonds are terrible at the moment due to the globally low rates, as are savings accounts. Stocks are hit&miss and will require your time. There's a lot more to it then that but that's pretty much all you need to get started if you have smaller amounts of cash not being used.
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Jan 15, 2015 23:20
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Don't bet $700 on a lithium mining company.
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Jan 16, 2015 00:00
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Xoidanor posted:Don't put all your money into one pot and learn to love index funds like the S&P 500. Bonds are terrible at the moment due to the globally low rates, as are savings accounts. Stocks are hit&miss and will require your time. You don't buy bonds for the amazing rates, you buy them because they are a good non-correlated asset to going along with boring stocks. For investments is easy to just do a three fund portfolio: 60% VTI 30% VXUS 10% BND Besides covering every type of stock market the the other advantage of the above simple plan is it forces you buy when other stocks are cheap. For example right now international stocks are better value in terms of thing such as price-book/PE than US stocks.
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Jan 16, 2015 00:17
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Pompous Rhombus posted:Here's a link to the Freakonomics podcast that discusses it, it's pretty interesting. With a little digging you can probably turn up the white paper that was originally written about it in the 00's. They did that during the US housing bubble too but that was mostly because the McMansions would fall apart after 8-10 years.
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Jan 16, 2015 00:23
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computer parts posted:They did that during the US housing bubble too but that was mostly because the McMansions would fall apart after 8-10 years. lol quote:KOO: And so you tear down the building, you build another one, then you tear down the building, and you keep on building another one, you’re not building wealth on top of wealth…And it’s a very poor investment.
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Jan 16, 2015 00:25
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Canada housing bubble: That's no way to build an affluent society
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Jan 16, 2015 00:30
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I have way too much in bank stocks I purchased after the lending crisis deep recession I'd like owning a home if I could get one at some non dumb amount The most realistic homes I see come through foreclosure from someone loving up. But I can't buy them since I work in the field sooooo (US person) Is there anywhere in Canada that's set to be better off than not with the bubble bursting soon? I'm curious which areas of the country are going to be hit harder (like here in the US with Florida, lol vacation home money death trap).
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Jan 16, 2015 00:31
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ZenVulgarity posted:I have way too much in bank stocks I purchased after the lending crisis deep recession Our housing bubble is the least of our worries, becoming a failed petrostate with roving gangs of unemployed oil workers stealing gas and valuables to fuel up and make the payments on their over-sized pickups is a lot more of a worry. Don't move here.
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Jan 16, 2015 01:18
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ZenVulgarity posted:Is there anywhere in Canada that's set to be better off than not with the bubble bursting soon? I'm curious which areas of the country are going to be hit harder (like here in the US with Florida, lol vacation home money death trap). No, the whole country is pretty much hosed right across the board on multiple levels beyond the housing bubble.
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Jan 16, 2015 01:21
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Cultural Imperial posted:Canada housing bubble: That's no way to build an affluent society Japan/Germany is a interesting case since it's housing price deflation over time. In the case of Germany it's a intentional country level economic policy since Germans wisely realized that high housing costs make a country worse off economically.
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Jan 16, 2015 01:23
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Is there anything that we built in the last 10 years that isn't a lovely leaky poorly built condo/cookie cutter subdivision? Not only is he running the risk of dealing with economic fallout but the houses/condos would be completely crap for the money he spends.
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Jan 16, 2015 01:44
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Germany and Japan, two hellholes known for their extremely not affluent societies. What are the exact policies germany enacted to achieve this? I'd love to hear more about it and it's effects.
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Jan 16, 2015 01:46
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Baronjutter posted:Germany and Japan, two hellholes known for their extremely not affluent societies. After WWII Germany sunk lots of money into public housing type projects and also passed lots of renter friendly laws. Local governments also subtly discourage rampant speculation. In terms of credit home mortgages get more extensive underwriting and also higher loan costs. No extra help is given to homeowners such as tax breaks or deductions for owning a home. So over time you get a slight deflation in housing costs and most people prefer to rent as a result. Random links: http://mpra.ub.uni-muenchen.de/43315/1/MPRA_paper_43315.pdf http://qz.com/167887/germany-has-one-of-the-worlds-lowest-homeownership-rates/ etalian fucked around with this message at 01:59 on Jan 16, 2015 |
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Jan 16, 2015 01:56
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Baronjutter posted:What are the exact policies germany enacted to achieve this? I'd love to hear more about it and it's effects.
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Jan 16, 2015 01:58
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LemonDrizzle posted:A combination of strong tenants' rights that give renters similar levels of security to owner-occupiers, a planning policy that releases land for development in proportion to the amount of anticipated local demand for new housing, and relatively tight lending standards. More importantly tight lending standards and costly loans avoids the everyone must have a home trap. Cheap easy credit on the flip encourages rampant housing speculation.
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Jan 16, 2015 02:00
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We're constantly told that it's renter's rights that create housing problems. Read any thread or article on rents in say SF or NY and you hear the same thing: "It's the rent controls!!!" "No one can build anything new because renters have too many rights!" "If only we got rid of the insane pro-tenant laws the market would solve the housing shortage and rents would go down!" I guess it also has to work in tandem with the government subsidizing housing, since the tenant-favoured laws make housing less attractive to "the market" ? *edit* Ah, the 2nd article posted explains it a lot better. Baronjutter fucked around with this message at 02:24 on Jan 16, 2015 |
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Jan 16, 2015 02:03
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On a oil crash note: Schlumberger to layoff 9000 employees in 2015: http://www.businessweek.com/news/2015-01-15/schlumberger-reports-charge-as-it-sees-uncertain-environment foreign investors sold off 874 million in Canadian equities from the October to January period: http://www.theglobeandmail.com/globe-investor/investment-ideas/traders-sell-canadian-assets-as-the-oil-bust-spreads/article22466680/ etalian fucked around with this message at 02:14 on Jan 16, 2015 |
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Jan 16, 2015 02:11
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Mederlock posted:I rent for $540 a month all utilities incl. with 2 other roommates in a 3bdrm town home in Edmonton and it loving rocks, I don't understand peoples fixation with owning, I'm perfectly happy renting, saving money on monthly expenses and having more money as a result to save/buy poo poo Joe Average can throw around numbers or the notion that it's an investment all they want, but I think home ownership is mostly a psychological thing.
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Jan 16, 2015 02:20
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unlimited shrimp posted:Biggest appeal of owning to me is having a sense of stability. I've moved house on average every two years my entire life, usually because of parents or school, but sometimes because of landlords. Having a piece of ground I can call my own would provide peace of mind that isn't really quantifiable. Which can be easily countered by strong tenant's rights. Most of my euro-friends rent, even if it's a house or urban apartment, and they all feel totally stable and build big basement or attic-spanning train sets because they have full security that they're never going to move unless they want to.
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Jan 16, 2015 02:26
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Things like a Canada/Russia crash is also why it's dumb to use country targeted ETFs.
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Jan 16, 2015 02:29
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Also, the only way we're going to have affordable housing is by making it easier for developers to get rich faster. And by building condos all over farms
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Jan 16, 2015 02:43
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Baronjutter posted:Which can be easily countered by strong tenant's rights. Most of my euro-friends rent, even if it's a house or urban apartment, and they all feel totally stable and build big basement or attic-spanning train sets because they have full security that they're never going to move unless they want to. The other appeal of ownership is that if I decide to remodel the kitchen or build a deck, I'm not effectively making a landlord wealthier.
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Jan 16, 2015 02:47
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unlimited shrimp posted:How do they negotiate home improvement projects, though? Ownership is all well and good if you aren't taking out a huge loving mortgage on the premise that 1) prices are going up and will continue to do so in perpetuity 2) you consider affordability based upon debt service payments.
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Jan 16, 2015 02:58
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unlimited shrimp posted:How do they negotiate home improvement projects, though? This is a good question and something I've never been able to totally figure out. I think it's a mix of negotiating with the landlord and not having a mentality that a house is an investment, you make things nicer because it's where you live (and plan on living for a very long time) not because you've done the math and figured out those 10,000 countertops will add 15,000 to the resale value of your house. None of my friends have really done anything like that though. The closest was a guy who wanted to build a little car-port cover thing for his driveway and simply asked permission, and the other was a guy who had a old lovely hot water tank and bathroom so complained to the landlord saying he wanted a new bathroom and preferably an on-demand hot water system. They negotiated and he convinced the landlord to do it on his own dime but with a modest rent increase. What would have happened in the landlord said no? I have no idea.
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Jan 16, 2015 03:05
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unlimited shrimp posted:How do they negotiate home improvement projects, though? The appeal of renting is I never have to sink in money to costly home improvement projects and can instead use the saved money to actually make money.
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Jan 16, 2015 06:18
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Sassafras fucked around with this message at 10:08 on Jan 22, 2015 |
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Jan 16, 2015 12:32
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Rime posted:No, the whole country is pretty much hosed right across the board on multiple levels beyond the housing bubble. I figure, right now we're looking at Canada. New York, and Florida. But I am only outside looking in on any issues in Canada. Grass is greener thing. And after looking into things and digging through this and the politics thread, oh my.
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Jan 16, 2015 13:22
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