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Holy poo poo these analogies. Remember, this isn't about "responsible saftey precautions", this is about police shooting and kiling people on a hair-trigger because they're certain/terrified that they'll be shot first otherwise. The level of prior proof neccesary should be wildly different for something you could reasonably call a "safety precaution" and something like killing another human being. And if you gently caress up that judgment call and kill someone unneccesarily because you're an rear end in a top hat (actual safety precautions might have prevented this situation, mind), there should be real, severe consequences.
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Jan 15, 2015 21:08
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Yeah I find using the term "safety precautions" in regards to what we are discussing (people being killed or hurt for little to no reason other than a general fear felt by the police and then having it be excused afterwards as an understandable mistake) to be incredibly disingenuous.
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Jan 15, 2015 21:10
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I'm not half as bothered about cops being too edgy with their trigger fingers as I am about the apparently widespread practice of helping someone die when an officer accidentally shoots a person who didn't warrant it.
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Jan 15, 2015 21:19
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Lest anyone start believing this was a populist move: http://observer.com/2015/01/most-new-yorkers-disapprove-of-cops-turning-their-backs-on-de-blasio-poll/ quote:Most New Yorkers disapprove of police officers turning their backs to Mayor Bill de Blasio at two recent funerals for slain cops, according to a new Quinnipiac University poll released today.
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Jan 15, 2015 23:07
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View all civilians the same way you'd view a Vietnam vet with severe post traumatic stress disorder. A completely sane and rational policy for police to abide by.
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Jan 15, 2015 23:21
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Intel&Sebastian posted:Lest anyone start believing this was a populist move: That's glorious. Mixed with the fact that the cops have been doing their best to prove that New York really doesn't need them has been making me all warm and fuzzy as of late. 
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Jan 15, 2015 23:24
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Intel&Sebastian posted:Lest anyone start believing this was a populist move: Those are not good numbers.
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Jan 15, 2015 23:43
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katlington posted:Those are not good numbers. quote:In addition to disagreeing with his comments, voters aren’t thrilled with Mr. Lynch himself. In his first appearance in a Quinnipiac poll, and the first time in memory the university has polled on a police union leader, he registered a dismal 18 percent favorability rating, with 39 percent of New Yorkers viewing him in an unfavorable light. The truth is in the middle!
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Jan 15, 2015 23:47
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"Black voters said the mayor does back cops, 69 percent to 19 percent. The margin was lower among Hispanic voters, who found the mayor supported cops 53 percent to 33 percent. It dropped below 50 percent for white voters, with just 49 percent saying the mayor supports police and 36 percent saying he does not." Won't someone think of the poor white people?
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Jan 16, 2015 00:51
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SinistralRifleman posted:For a forum that concerns itself with being culturally aware, you show little regard for being aware of the reasons behind why police are responding the way they are today. "Police" isn't a real culture. If we're going to call police a culture, we can call librarians or the Swiss Guard a culture and while you can, there's no meaning to it in this context. Anyone who conflates police "culture" with ethnic or tribal cultural identity is not prepared to have a serious conversation. quote:No doubt that video of the Flagstaff officer will be shown to another generation of police officers as a training tool (I notice you chose not to address that one). My point was that very few police apologists can frame police work as dangerous without referring to Dinkheller, as you did. quote:Dinkheller is cited because it's one of the few fully documented on video. Police deaths at the hands of criminals used to be more common. Now traffic accidents are the most common cause of death, followed by responding to domestic violence situations,. Society has to decide what it actually wants from the police. If you expect them to be proactive and deal with criminals, it is unlikely they will actually do that job or be able to without certain immunities. If you want them to be held accountable the same as average citizens, they they have to be given the option to opt out and say "this isn't worth the risk". I don't think the public would like that in the end unless they were also empowered to defend themselves more across the country: but the people here are largely against that as well. Armed citizen hypervigilance is even more ridiculous than police hypervigilance. Neither group is in significant danger from armed, homicidal criminals. quote:Neither article referenced 3 gun competition so I assume you're referencing it because I shoot 3 gun myself. Not sure where or if you Yes, and this competition mindset has led to high-capacity striker-fired pistols and 5.56 carbines becoming standard issue. This seems to lead to an increasing propensity for police to see imaginary threats and respond to them as "technical shooting problems under stress." Especially when they lack your training, but have all of your equipment. quote:If I had a choice between the NYPD that shoots and hits multiple innocent bystanders because of lack of training and practice and police that consistently hit what they're aiming at, I'll pick the latter. I agree, but the training will never happen. It's not sexy enough I guess. quote:You could structure the way you live to avoid confrontations or minimize them (same as police using defensive tactics) This is another conflation of real socioeconomic issues with pretend ones. Don't act as if needing a job gives you a pass to conduct yourself immorally.
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Jan 16, 2015 00:58
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Police chief defends use of photos of real people for target practice
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Jan 16, 2015 02:12
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quote:North Miami Beach Police Chief J. Scott Dennis admitted that his officers could have used better judgment, but denies any racial profiling. It's ok, I have black friends that shoot pictures of black people
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Jan 16, 2015 02:23
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quote:The police chief said his department will resume use of human image targets after it expands the number of images in its inventory. His officers, Dennis said, will not use any booking photos from suspects they have arrested and he’ll direct his officers to remove the targets after they use the shooting range. True heroes
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Jan 16, 2015 02:24
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How are police this loving dense? Like how is it that they can't comprehend that behavior like this that makes people dislike the police. I guess we should be happy they at least weren't using pictures of Obama
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Jan 16, 2015 02:40
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KomradeX posted:How are police this loving dense? Like how is it that they can't comprehend that behavior like this that makes people dislike the police. I guess we should be happy they at least weren't using pictures of Obama On a whim, I googled "obama target practice police" (dear god I hope I live), and found this: http://www.cbsnews.com/news/ariz-cops-facebook-pic-targeting-obama-probed/ posted:PEORIA, Ariz. - The Secret Service is investigating a picture that was posted on an Arizona police officer's Facebook page in which an image of President Barack Obama appears to have been used for target practice. so lol
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Jan 16, 2015 03:09
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I'm sure they wouldn't mind if citizens were using pictures of cops for shooting practice.
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Jan 16, 2015 03:17
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drat. At least apologize to the lady who found a shot-up image of her brother at the range.
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Jan 16, 2015 03:18
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Booourns posted:I'm sure they wouldn't mind if citizens were using pictures of cops for shooting practice. Funny you'd say that. I don't know how universal it is and TFR goons can probably correct me on that but from personal experience and friends across a couple of states, I think it's pretty much most ranges which don't allow you to use something that resembles an actual human too much because it would be a litigation nightmare. I imagine a range that tried to use a cop, real or not, as a paper target would be sued to oblivion the moment the cops found out.
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Jan 16, 2015 03:27
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Agnosticnixie posted:Funny you'd say that. No pretty much everywhere has photos of various enemies of the political right as well as general public antagonists to use as target pratice.
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Jan 16, 2015 04:57
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Woozy posted:No pretty much everywhere has photos of various enemies of the political right as well as general public antagonists to use as target pratice.
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Jan 16, 2015 05:08
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Woozy posted:No pretty much everywhere has photos of various enemies of the political right as well as general public antagonists to use as target pratice. That will teach me to shoot in a socialist bubble.
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Jan 16, 2015 08:30
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Samurai Sanders posted:I figured it was a "don't wave it around when you're in the front but just quietly take them back to the shooting range and put them up" kind of thing. The people who buy these shoot them with one magazine, probably on their weird friend's land "outside the city", then pin them up in the living room to laugh about with all their lovely racist friends. "LOL it has Skittles and Arizona Watermelon like that thug Trayvon., who George Zimmerman killed in a totally-not-racist-self-defense situation because Hispanics can't be racist and yay guns."
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Jan 16, 2015 08:59
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Gravel Gravy posted:When and where are you pulling that? Places that I've lived or applied to PDs more cops were killed in auto or motorcycle accidents than were killed by criminals. Officer deaths did peak around the early 70's, then tapered a bit after that. In the history of the United States only 20,000 officers have died in the line of duty and even still they think their job is the most dangerous thing in the world. I got into an argument with one of the guys in my unit about that. He's a cop at home and didn't want to hear it when I pointed out that total combat deaths for the US military for the same period come to 848,000 and that the global war on terror has claimed 6700 in the past 10 years. He just pulled up the the 2014 numbers and said only 130 troops had died that year and that was equal to the 120 or so police who died that year. I brought up the point that half of those were traffic accidents and he responded that a car wreck will kill you just as much as an IED, which I thought was missing the point. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_military_casualties_of_war http://www.nleomf.org/facts/officer-fatalities-data/year.html
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Jan 16, 2015 09:44
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Lemming posted:On a whim, I googled "obama target practice police" (dear god I hope I live), and found this: Well color me unsurprised
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Jan 16, 2015 10:42
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NO NO WE DONT HAVE A PROBLEM WITH RACE OR THE POLICE YOU COP HATING RACIST ffffffffffff that is the worst picture ever
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Jan 16, 2015 14:01
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Sorry if this has already been posted:quote:'I was afraid,' says cop on trial in death of 95-year-old man I mean sure, it's a knife. But he's 95.
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Jan 16, 2015 14:19
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http://talkingpointsmemo.com/edblog/police-opposition-to-awful-union-chief-leads-to-brawl-at-union-meeting-in-queens I don't think these negotiations are going well for the union.
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Jan 16, 2015 14:57
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Armani posted:NO Don't you see, if they don't sight in on real heads then they won't be able to do it when blue lives are on the line. The mugshots all just look all black, by the way. drat toner settings.
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Jan 16, 2015 15:15
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mastershakeman posted:Sorry if this has already been posted: "Jury selection continued today in the trial of Ofc. Joe Blow, who, in 2014, struck a child with a ricochet after becoming terrified of, and firing at, his own shadow."
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Jan 16, 2015 15:35
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mastershakeman posted:I mean sure, it's a knife. But he's 95. 95? Sounds like wizard age to me. Can't be too careful!
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Jan 16, 2015 16:14
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Popular Thug Drink posted:"Jury selection continued today in the trial of Ofc. Joe Blow, who, in 2014, struck a child with a ricochet after becoming terrified of, and firing at, his own shadow." That's so unrealistic, more like: "Prosecutors have declined to charge Ofc. Joe Blow, who, in 2014, shot an unarmed child that had been making 'threatening gestures' at the officer, which caused him to fear for his life."
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Jan 16, 2015 17:28
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Armyman25 posted:Officer deaths did peak around the early 70's, then tapered a bit after that. If spending a lot of your day driving around is part of your job, then you can't say that those deaths don't count when assessing the relative risk of the job. But those aren't unique risks, obviously, and will be faced just the same by a UPS driver. The argument that policing is exceptionally dangerous (and should allow police the benefit of the doubt when it comes to protecting their life) can be turned around on the kind of people that normally use it: Statistics show that the most dangerous professions in the US are logging, construction, truck driving, etc... Since these professions are provably the most dangerous, shouldn't their members have the same right of defending their lives? Shouldn't they be able to demand a safe working environment, without fear for their job? Shouldn't they be allowed to unionize, just like the police, and force their employers to follow OSHA rules?
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Jan 16, 2015 18:04
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Now this is good police work:quote:the case of an FBI agent who, by his own admission, repeatedly stole heroin from evidence bags for his personal use. In the process, he sabotaged drug cases that he and his colleagues had labored on for months. Prosecutors have dismissed charges against 28 defendants in three cases, many of whom had already been convicted, and they say it could affect 150 other defendants. Now that guy might actually be the prototypical "bad apple" but...lets talk systemic issues: quote:An internal audit by the FBI, completed last month, found that every one of the nation’s field offices had problems tracking gun and drug evidence and that in some cases, drugs disappeared for months without notice. The Washington field office was among those with the highest error rates; 90 percent of drug evidence examined had been mishandled or had record-keeping problems. (http://www.washingtonpost.com/local...a9d7_story.html)
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Jan 16, 2015 18:16
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Megaman's Jockstrap posted:Cop stuff: My reaction can be summed up this way: http://mic.com/articles/108372/one-tweet-shows-the-hypocrisy-of-america-s-reaction-to-white-people-rioting-at-ohio-state So yeah, a crowd of white people getting pepper-sprayed and flashbanged no longer tugs on my hardened heartstrings. Oh hey, let's talk about this instead: Right Wing Nut Job Shoots Oklahoma Police Chief Three Times – Lives, Won’t Be Charged quote:Sentinel Oklahoma police chief, Louis Ross, was shot three times by a man whom neighbors describe as a ‘gun enthusiast’ and ‘survivalist’. Strangely, the man was not killed. Not only that, but he wasn’t even arrested or charged with a crime. But here's the kicker: quote:Officers entered the home and cleared the first room. But as they entered the second room, a man identified as Dallas Horton shot Chief Ross three times, twice in his bullet proof vest and once in the arm. OSBI said the chief actually borrowed the bullet proof vest from one of the deputies just before entering the home. No charges, no arrests. White male right-wing gun nuts are a protected class in this country. 90s Solo Cup fucked around with this message at 01:02 on Jan 17, 2015 |
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Jan 16, 2015 23:46
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Albuquerque prosecutor indicts cops, immediately faces repercussionsquote:A top prosecutor for District Attorney Kari Brandenburg’s office was shut out of a briefing after a fatal police shooting near San Mateo and Constitution NE on Tuesday evening, Brandenburg told KRQE News 13.
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Jan 17, 2015 01:09
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So...who will look at that and conclude that asking local prosecutors to prosecute cops is not a conflict of interest? I assume somebody.
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Jan 17, 2015 01:11
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mastershakeman posted:Sorry if this has already been posted: Do you have any idea how many Krauts he killed with that knife?
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Jan 17, 2015 02:28
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Everyday Lurker posted:Oh hey, let's talk about this instead: Right Wing Nut Job Shoots Oklahoma Police Chief Three Times – Lives, Won’t Be Charged Samurai Sanders posted:So...who will look at that and conclude that asking local prosecutors to prosecute cops is not a conflict of interest? I assume somebody. Sounds like a mandate to create an independant federal body specifically for that sort of thing. SMILLENNIALSMILLEN fucked around with this message at 03:55 on Jan 17, 2015 |
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Jan 17, 2015 03:52
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katlington posted:Those are not good numbers. Here's some more: http://blogs.reuters.com/great-debate/2015/01/15/one-third-of-americans-believe-police-lie-routinely/ Highlights:
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Jan 17, 2015 05:33
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This is going to be a pretty massive change for US police forces.quote:Attorney General Eric H. Holder Jr. on Friday barred local and state police from using federal law to seize cash, cars and other property without warrants or criminal charges. It remains to be seen how well the state-laws work for the worst-offending departments, but this is going to be a massive change - especially for minorities.
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Jan 17, 2015 16:32
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