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I see it more as tying up your political capital in a goal/promise, and getting a good return on your investment for following through and showing that you can get poo poo done
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Jan 16, 2015 18:15
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YF-23 posted:I am not sure I like this. It seems counterintuitive to have one of the means to earn political power cost political power (and what does "usually" mean here?). So to use George W. Bush as an example (and forgive me if I have the order of events wrong): The Afghanistan war took some small amount of capital to implement and probably gained him quite a bit of capital given that the initial invasion seemed like a rousing success at the time. The Iraq war probably cost him a lot more capital, but he had quite a bit already plus a boost from Afghanistan. He got most of that capital back because rah-rah Saddam out of power etc. Medicare Part D and No Child Left behind cost some political capital to get through Congress but he didn't get much back from that. He tried to do basically privatize Social Security, but that failed to pass and by this mechanic Dubya lost a lot of political capital. So finally, between all of this, the Occupation of Iraq dragging on, the various blunders on Katrina and other places, he had no political capital left to even get started on immigration reform at the end of his term. Not that political capital actually exists in the real world or anything, but its good enough for a game mechanic. On that note, if this is what political power is supposed to be, roughly, then political power should be influenced by the leader's degree of success in elections as well, as per the belief amongst politicos that elections give mandates and all that (probably untrue mythos that nonetheless drives discussions and analysis to our collective detriment).
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Jan 16, 2015 18:44
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People like winners, and will put up with a lot of uneasiness when someone who's nominally on their side stakes out a clear intention and then achieves it, however hideous the clear intention is. As a species we are hard coded to admire competence, which is why unpleasant governments put so much effort into suppressing stories that make them look silly.
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Jan 16, 2015 18:54
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Autonomous Monster posted:So, wait, hang on, does that mean that if you're playing France or Britain and decide to actually respond when Hitler tries to re-militarise the Rhineland, you can precipitate a coup in Germany and nip WW2 in the bud? Kinda - it has the potential to mess up France too though. And yeah, elections are more HoI3 style than V2.
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Jan 16, 2015 19:08
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Political Goal: Peace in Our Time - Prevent war from breaking out between Allies and Axis for 10 years.
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Jan 16, 2015 19:17
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Darkrenown posted:Kinda - it has the potential to mess up France too though. That's cool. Like Germany gets coup'd but somehow backfires and now France is fascist and invading all of Europe instead of Germany? Some sort of small chance to have a different "main bad dude" each game could make for some cool gameplay.
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Jan 16, 2015 19:26
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I know we've had this talk before, but in the stream today they mentioned that they can't put Adolf Hitler's portrait in the German version of HoI4. Am I totally off track or didn't they used to have his and other important Nazi portraits in the older games? I'll admit the portrait they had was rather well done and impressive but I dunno if that is an influence on it.
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Jan 16, 2015 19:38
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Darkrenown posted:Long belated HoI IV DD: This is looking better and better. I love the companies system. I'm really looking forward to taking a crack at making a modern day mod for this game.
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Jan 16, 2015 19:43
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Can you do something like Borderlands: the Pre-Sequel did and put up a warning text box when you try to play as Germany? "Whoa! Looks like you almost started the game as Germany! You weren't actually trying to play as them, were you?" Yes/No "Are you sure? Adolf Hitler is in power, and he's considered one of the worst human beings in the history of our world." Yes/No "Are you really sure? There's no redeeming factors and you'll just end up feeling bad after you've won." YES!/No Achievement Unlocked: Nazi Sympathizer
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Jan 16, 2015 19:45
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Man Adolf Hitler looks really good. That's a great portrait. Send my regards to whoever you hired to paint Adolf Hitler, he looks really good.
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Jan 16, 2015 20:44
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Mans posted:Man Adolf Hitler looks really good. That's a great portrait. Paradox Grand Strategy: Hitler looks really good Mr Luxury Yacht posted:That's cool. Like Germany gets coup'd but somehow backfires and now France is fascist and invading all of Europe instead of Germany? I met King and some other people for drinks in Edinburgh, I think a little after HOI3 was announced? And of course this was the first HOI game in the post-EU3, no historical events era, so we quizzed him on how that was going to work in the context of Hearts of Iron. Obviously it can't be too dynamic, because if the war never shows up then you've got no game, but he said (mind this was about seven years ago now, my memory's a little fuzzy) the idea was that, things could branch, in the lead up to war, but every path would lead to some sort of war- maybe earlier, maybe later, maybe with different aggressors. That was a neat little concept that I don't think really made it into the game.
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Jan 16, 2015 21:13
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The internal politics interface and systems all look super good, I'm excited for the release! Weirdly enough, I'm now looking forwards to trying a democratic Nationalist China game when this releases. (That nation is probably going to be really hard to do, though.) I'm a little confused about how dictatorship / democracy transitions are handled in the game: are dictatorships going to be inherently tied to or aligned towards the Comintern or the Axis? Interwar Poland was ... not exactly a paragon of democracy during its existence, and Brazil was a military dictatorship which, like a lot of other authoritarian Latin American regimes, joined or supported the Allied Powers. Not to mention that Nationalist China was also a strongman dictatorship by 1936 that tried to play off of all the major alliance blocs for Jiang Jieshi's own benefit. I assume it's just an abstraction for gameplay's sake, but I hope it doesn't mean that half of South America goes Axis every other game.
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Jan 16, 2015 21:38
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This is probably stretching it, but now I kinda want to play a game as Democratic Allies member Germany against the horrible Axis of Fascist France and Russia. Am I living a lie?
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Jan 16, 2015 22:10
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I'll be interested to see how this system goes. Might be you can only get really ahistorical effects (Democratic Germany) if you start in 1933 or something like that. I remember the issues Kaiserreich had with its fluid factions - it was really cool that pretty much any nation could end up on any side, but it could lead to the eventual world war being unbalanced to the point where it was just a quick stomp and it was over. Playing Soviet America in WW2 sounds cool, but it basically means the war is stillborn.
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Jan 16, 2015 22:25
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Gort posted:
Unless there's a little bit of railroading to help the balance. Like, say you go Soviet America. The game then starts pushing other nations towards the other ideologies to balance. Like going Soviet America gives Russia a big probability to switch to something not Communist. Or (really ahistorical I know) suddenly south and central America has unified into an anti-comintern 'nation' you now have to fight on your doorstep. I mean its a bit complicated and I doubt its being done like this but I can dream can't I? 
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Jan 16, 2015 22:34
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OhGreatAGinger posted:This is probably stretching it, but now I kinda want to play a game as Democratic Allies member Germany against the horrible Axis of Fascist France and Russia. I would assume not in vanilla but presumably if the game is as moddable as Paradox games usually are it'll just be a matter of someone setting up the scenario they want and the systems doing the rest.
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Jan 16, 2015 22:35
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Mr Luxury Yacht posted:Unless there's a little bit of railroading to help the balance. Soviet America causes the Allies to freak out and decide Communism really is the bigger threat. ENG/FRA/GER/JAP vs USA/SOV
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Jan 16, 2015 22:55
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There are definitely lots that can be done with regards to how harshly France/Britain step up in response to German belligerence. If France rejects appeasement for instance that could tie in with stuff like the Little Entente come the Sudetenland question.
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Jan 16, 2015 23:10
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Autonomous Monster posted:Soviet America causes the Allies to freak out and decide Communism really is the bigger threat. ENG/FRA/GER/JAP vs USA/SOV That seems like the most likely alt history event chain. Maybe add event chains where the USA can try to spread the revolution to Mexico, Central America and then Canada, but Canada almost always triggers war with ENG/FRA/GER/JAP/POL.
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Jan 17, 2015 00:05
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Thing is, though, I can't imagine a conflict like that being part of core HoI4 - it seems more alt-history than they've previously done or have so far mentioned. So what DOES happen if Germany goes Allied, or the US goes Soviet? Maybe the idea is that everyone follows historical lines EXCEPT the player - at least then if you wanted to just fight WW2 you don't have to put up with the Soviet Union collapsing before you get to invade them or joining your side or something.
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Jan 17, 2015 00:09
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YF-23 posted:I am not sure I like this. It seems counterintuitive to have one of the means to earn political power cost political power (and what does "usually" mean here?). I think it's great, honestly. Hitler was an inveterate gambler. The whole war is him gambling and gambling and gambling. Building in a system where you have to pay to play, and going all-in means you can win big or crash hard, just seems appropriate.
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Jan 17, 2015 00:51
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Darkrenown posted:Long belated HoI IV DD: Um, where is Focke-Wulf as a light aircraft manufacturer? 
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Jan 17, 2015 00:52
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BBJoey posted:Um, where is Focke-Wulf as a light aircraft manufacturer? Maybe new ones will unlock ever year, like in HoI2?
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Jan 17, 2015 01:15
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Demiurge4 posted:I know we've had this talk before, but in the stream today they mentioned that they can't put Adolf Hitler's portrait in the German version of HoI4. Am I totally off track or didn't they used to have his and other important Nazi portraits in the older games? I know they had a certain Adolf Hiller as German chancellor in the release version of HoI 3 in Germany. Never heard about him before, but it seems he had some good ideas. They changed that back to Hitler in one of the early patches, no one noticed or cared. Although I have to say that the portrait of Hitler in a heroic pose would probably be a bit of a problem in Germany, yes.
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Jan 17, 2015 01:51
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Its a slippery slope, first its a well done portrait of hitler, then then its a loading screen of swole hitler riding shirtless on a V1. WHEN WILL IT END edit: also please continue Vicky 2's "monitor shelling buckingham palace" loading screen by having U.S Marines storm the shore of the Isle of Man, tia Agean90 fucked around with this message at 01:55 on Jan 17, 2015 |
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Jan 17, 2015 01:53
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Agean90 posted:Its a slippery slope, first its a well done portrait of hitler, then then its a loading screen of swole hitler riding shirtless on a V1. WHEN WILL IT END Soviet Marines raising the red flag over Okinawa French Infantry flying the tricolore over the Reichstag
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Jan 17, 2015 02:41
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Agean90 posted:edit: also please continue Vicky 2's "monitor shelling buckingham palace" loading screen by having U.S Marines storm the shore of the Isle of Man, tia That was a great series to read. It ends with America invading Britain, inventing tanks early, defeating the British Army with them and toppling the monarchy. The final chapter has Abraham Lincoln congratulating Benjamin Disraeli on his election as Britain's first President.
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Jan 17, 2015 02:47
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ArchangeI posted:Soviet Marines raising the red flag over Okinawa Polish Infantry raising a flag over the White House. 
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Jan 17, 2015 02:51
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Marshal Zhukov signing the surrender papers aboard the Vittorio Veneto.
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Jan 17, 2015 02:57
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Chinese troops marching through Tokyo I hereby declare this page Kaiserriech_ideas.txt
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Jan 17, 2015 02:59
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Kuomintang flags flying over Kyoto. Bob Hope entertaining Japanese troops. Enola Gay swooping over Paris.
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Jan 17, 2015 03:06
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Soviet troops reaching Berlin from the east meeting French troops coming from the west.  
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Jan 17, 2015 03:13
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Hitler and Stalin shaking hands on a bridge over the Vistula. It was a long, hard fight, but the two stalwart allies prevailed against Poland after only seven years.
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Jan 17, 2015 03:16
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Agean90 posted:I hereby declare this page Kaiserriech_ideas.txt The Imperial German tricolor on top of the Admirality Arch. Pu Yi's portrait at the entrance to the Forbidden City. Simo Häyhä atop a mountain made of the corpses of every wild animal in Finland, looking bored. Agean90 posted:edit: also please continue Vicky 2's "monitor shelling buckingham palace" loading screen by having U.S Marines storm the shore of the Isle of Man, tia Just like in the Battle of Dorking! Seriously if Kaiserreich HoI4 doesn't pan out, I'm making an alt-history mod based on that story. It'll be my own Kaiserreich! With blackjack! And hookers!
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Jan 17, 2015 03:30
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The Yalta Conference of 1939 with the Big Three - Chiang Kai-shek, Ion Antonescu, and Haile Selassie. Khorloogiin Choibalsan discussing peace terms with Philippe Pétain. Italy not sucking.
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Jan 17, 2015 03:50
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Funky Valentine posted:Italy not sucking. Truly the gayest, blackest Hitler.
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Jan 17, 2015 03:53
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Yes, it's like a lava lamp.
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PittTheElder posted:Truly the gayest, blackest Hitler. Nah. http://www.circlevilletoday.com/news/hitlers-were-county-pioneers/article_2a6487b2-a34a-55f4-83f4-dfcf116d15d5.html quote:Dr. Gay Hitler, son of George Washington Hitler, was a local dentist, serving our community from 1922 through 1946 from his office on West Main Street.
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Jan 17, 2015 04:28
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Baron Ungern von Sternberg sitting in the White House. While it's on fire from Mongolian T-34s
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Jan 17, 2015 05:02
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gradenko_2000 posted:Baron Ungern von Sternberg sitting in the White House. While it's on fire from Mongolian horse archers.
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Jan 17, 2015 05:12
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gradenko_2000 posted:
Fixed that for you. Anyway, someone draw this.
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Jan 17, 2015 05:13
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