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How I know Tomino still has it: G-Self's shield has vulcan cannons on it. This is a technological leap worthy of UC lineage.
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Jan 19, 2015 10:48
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Jegan Ace posted:How I know Tomino still has it: Having explosive ammo in a shield seems like a bad idea to me really. One good hit and it'd all cook off.
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Jan 19, 2015 12:29
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Neddy Seagoon posted:Having explosive ammo in a shield seems like a bad idea to me really. One good hit and it'd all cook off. Like that's the dumbest shield-related design decision we've seen in Gundam.
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Jan 19, 2015 18:33
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Gundam, Shield, and 'Bad Design' are forever linked now after 0083
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Jan 19, 2015 18:35
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Neddy Seagoon posted:Having explosive ammo in a shield seems like a bad idea to me really. One good hit and it'd all cook off. I'd actually planned on calling this out after the episode, but then I remembered this happy fellow:  If a Gyan is wrong I don't want to be right. 
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Jan 19, 2015 18:58
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Pureauthor posted:Gundam, Shield, and 'Bad Design' are forever linked now after 0083 To be fair I always assumed the GP-02's shield wasn't supposed to be used for combat but mainly serve to shield it from nuclear blasts.
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Jan 19, 2015 19:19
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Ethiser posted:To be fair I always assumed the GP-02's shield wasn't supposed to be used for combat but mainly serve to shield it from nuclear blasts. Everyone who parrots the same "the weakpoint was in the shield!  " complaint was and continues to be an idiot.
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Jan 19, 2015 19:22
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Weapon-shields are not particularly logical but they're cool and that is really all that matters. See also: Exia, Blitz Gundam/Amatu.
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Jan 19, 2015 19:28
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Hey man, the Blitz has rocket needles. It's too cool for sense.
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Jan 19, 2015 19:57
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Ethiser posted:To be fair I always assumed the GP-02's shield wasn't supposed to be used for combat but mainly serve to shield it from nuclear blasts. Artum posted:Everyone who parrots the same "the weakpoint was in the shield! Wasn't it a non-combat prototype anyway? Just a testing platform to see if you could toss a nuke from a Gundam and survive?
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Jan 20, 2015 03:32
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Artum posted:Everyone who parrots the same "the weakpoint was in the shield! It is pretty funny to be honest. quote:Wasn't it a non-combat prototype anyway? Just a testing platform to see if you could toss a nuke from a Gundam and survive? GP-02 was meant to be usable in combat, but only insofar as they were designing a suit that would be able to give an accounting of itself if it came under attack before firing it's weapon. It is pretty much just a modernized Zaku II MS-06C, which means that it can fight, but it probably shouldn't since so much of its design is dedicated to a non-combat task. Its slow, heavy and has a very weak shield. Caros fucked around with this message at 03:39 on Jan 20, 2015 |
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Jan 20, 2015 03:36
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Neddy Seagoon posted:Wasn't it a non-combat prototype anyway? Just a testing platform to see if you could toss a nuke from a Gundam and survive? Even then, it's a thing that tosses a nuke, it's not meant to be in combat in any way, shape, or form. Hell, it has 3 weapons, the bazooka, beam sabers, and vulcans. The shield being a weakness is funny, but it doesn't really make the suit design super dumb considering it's an artillery unit.
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Jan 20, 2015 03:38
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Artum posted:Everyone who parrots the same "the weakpoint was in the shield! I was one of those for a long time, and to be fair we hadn't ever gotten an example of a thermal/blast shield that wasn't primarily a ballistic shield in the series before and I don't think we've gotten one since. The closest we'd seen was the thermal re-entry blanket from 0079 that was retconned into a gas blanket for the movies.
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Jan 20, 2015 03:38
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TARDISman posted:Even then, it's a thing that tosses a nuke, it's not meant to be in combat in any way, shape, or form. Hell, it has 3 weapons, the bazooka, beam sabers, and vulcans. The shield being a weakness is funny, but it doesn't really make the suit design super dumb considering it's an artillery unit. Pretty much this. Its like criticizing the Guntank for being a poor close combat fighter. It could probably do it if push came to shove, but that isn't at all what it was meant to do.
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Jan 20, 2015 03:41
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I guess my next question in that case would be 'Why would you fire a nuke at a target at a range where you need to shield yourself from the blast?' but honestly the suit design is the least of 0083's flaws.TARDISman posted:Even then, it's a thing that tosses a nuke, it's not meant to be in combat in any way, shape, or form. Then why is it designed as a mobile suit? 
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Jan 20, 2015 03:41
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TARDISman posted:Even then, it's a thing that tosses a nuke, it's not meant to be in combat in any way, shape, or form. Hell, it has 3 weapons, the bazooka, beam sabers, and vulcans. The shield being a weakness is funny, but it doesn't really make the suit design super dumb considering it's an artillery unit. Actually nukes are pretty safe and won't go boom unless properly detonated. They'll still explode, but not a full-blown nuclear blast  .
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Jan 20, 2015 03:42
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Caros posted:Pretty much this. Its like criticizing the Guntank for being a poor close combat fighter. It could probably do it if push came to shove, but that isn't at all what it was meant to do. Uh the Guntank can do anything it wants and it can do it well. It is the perfect mobile suit.
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Jan 20, 2015 03:46
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Pureauthor posted:I guess my next question in that case would be 'Why would you fire a nuke at a target at a range where you need to shield yourself from the blast?' but honestly the suit design is the least of 0083's flaws. Minovsky Particles. While using nukes for blowing up a colony, city or asteroid could be done the old fashioned ICBM/Missile way, shooting tactical nukes like what the GP-02 was designed for is really only possible at close range. Minovsky particles make long range targeting useless unless the target is huge, and ships are moving so fast that even the blast of a nuke needs to be pretty spot on to have any effect. Minovsky particles even warp visible light, meaning you have to be at a short range to even be sure you are shooting at the right direction/angle. The GP-02 is designed to be able to defend itself and fire a nuke at combat distances without being destroyed in the process. It was actually pretty good at its job when you look at it that way.
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Jan 20, 2015 03:52
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Caros posted:Minovsky Particles. Better than the MS-06C ever was, anyway.
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Jan 20, 2015 04:51
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The sillier part is that the GP-02 wasn't designed for close quarters combat in any way, and yet Gato still beat Kou in the GP-01 Fb. With a broken arm. God drat Kou, you suck.
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Jan 20, 2015 05:40
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BlitzBlast posted:The sillier part is that the GP-02 wasn't designed for close quarters combat in any way, and yet Gato still beat Kou in the GP-01 Fb. With a broken arm. Seriously, the GP-02 was a giant pile of poo poo that was halfway to the junkheap already and Kou managed to take his brand new tricked out GP-01Fb specialized for space combat against it and the best he could achieve was a mutual KO.
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Jan 20, 2015 06:17
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Caros posted:While using nukes for blowing up a colony, city or asteroid could be done the old fashioned ICBM/Missile way, shooting tactical nukes like what the GP-02 was designed for is really only possible at close range. Minovsky particles make long range targeting useless unless the target is huge, and ships are moving so fast that even the blast of a nuke needs to be pretty spot on to have any effect. Minovsky particles even warp visible light, meaning you have to be at a short range to even be sure you are shooting at the right direction/angle. There's also the fact that nukes aren't as dangerous in space as they are on Earth as a lot of the destructive potential is mitigated by the vacuum of space from my (very basic) understanding. The fact that space has no air means there's no blast wave and no real heat beyond the initial blast zone to worry about, only the radiation and explosion in the immediate, and much more contained (owning to the lack of blast wave) area. The radiation there is of a higher frequency I believe (though I've no idea why) than it would be on Earth, but the danger is, overall, much less wide spread. I would assume the GP-02 was designed as a mobile suit because mobile suits were the hot new military thing following the One Year War, and militaries are as prone to impulse buying, bad decisions and lack of foresight as any other person or organization. Anaheim took advantage of this by shoving nukes in to mobile suits as a vanity project and a way to get the Feds to buy yet another machine and called it a day. BlitzBlast posted:The sillier part is that the GP-02 wasn't designed for close quarters combat in any way, and yet Gato still beat Kou in the GP-01 Fb. With a broken arm. There's a new manga out called Mobile Suit Gundam 0083: Rebellion that is basically to 0083 what Origin is to 0079. Zeonic Scans recently released the first two volumes (out of 3 volumes available so far) and it's actually pretty drat good. Like, it's "makes Kou a decent character from the off" good. Which is pretty amazing. It gives him a personality and some visible skill, while emphasizing just how stiff and insanely loyal Gato is. Kou comes across as quite dorky, but a nice guy regardless while Gato comes across as someone with a Zeon flag shoved so far up his rear end it flutters when he sneezes. It's kind of a shame that they keep Delaz and Gato as always "on" loyal soldiers though honestly, because there's a scene of some Zeon soldiers getting drunk and celebrating (by (really minor spoiler)pissing on a submarine to "christian" it and it'd have been nice to see those two in a more human and relatable light too. The manga even plays up the test pilot angle by showing the team Kou belongs to testing new equipment and arguing with normal soldiers. The one thing it doesn't do sadly, is make any more sense of the fact that GP-02 is equipped with a live nuke during initial testing. It shows the nuke being requisitioned and loaded, but at no point does anyone pause to question why they'd be doing it or comment on how absurd it is given that the unit hasn't even been had it's paint dry yet. I think it'd have been improved by having Delaz either pulling a nuke from some old Zeon base or robbing one from the Feds later in the story. It'd also help put the rather  idea that Bask Om and others arranged for Operation Stardust to happen as a means to grab power to bed, since I think any such black flag stuff is inherently less interesting than any story where such horrific organizations arise by natural means.Still, it makes 0083's story and characters fun (at least so far) so it's more than worth a read if you're looking for some new Gundam manga. Hopefully it won't be too long before volume 03 is released (though Deacon, Zeonic's main staff member is notoriously slow and fickle with these things), because volume 02 leaves off just as Kou is about to meet Gato in combat for the first time following the Gundam jack. Volume 01 Volume 02 The GP-01 also gets some chobham armor (a la the Alex) that helps it survive should it be in the combat zone alongside it's buddy suit, the GP-02 when it fires it's nuke, and which gives it a really cool new face. I'm actually a fan of Gundam faces normally, but the visor look is much nicer for the GP-01 in my opinion. 
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Jan 20, 2015 15:55
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Midjack posted:Better than the MS-06C ever was, anyway. Did I miss a story where Zakus were wrecked at Loum and during British because they fired their nukes too close? Was that in The Origin? Did a bunch of pilots get cancer or something cause the lead paint wasn't thick enough? Trick question, all the pilots died in combat eventually because One Year war survival rates suck. ImpAtom posted:Weapon-shields are not particularly logical but they're cool and that is really all that matters. See also: Exia, Blitz Gundam/Amatu. Was it the R-Jarja that had the mega-particle cannon shield? I'm pretty sure it wasn't the Bawoo. Probably not a super effective shield given the glaring weakness of beam emitters on the surface, but also probably the most powerful of the weapon-shields prior to the Sinanju's sword-shield.
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Jan 20, 2015 17:22
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Warmachine posted:Did I miss a story where Zakus were wrecked at Loum and during British because they fired their nukes too close? Was that in The Origin? Did a bunch of pilots get cancer or something cause the lead paint wasn't thick enough? Trick question, all the pilots died in combat eventually because One Year war survival rates suck. Nope, it was indeed the Bawoo, and it had five guns built into it. Still not a patch on the X Divider, though.
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Jan 21, 2015 04:36
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Warmachine posted:Was it the R-Jarja that had the mega-particle cannon shield? I'm pretty sure it wasn't the Bawoo. Probably not a super effective shield given the glaring weakness of beam emitters on the surface, but also probably the most powerful of the weapon-shields prior to the Sinanju's sword-shield. Not really. The shield and embedded Cannons would have to be built to withstand the Mega Particle Beams themselves, so the side-effect of that would be laughing off anything less anyway.
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Jan 21, 2015 04:39
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Triggerhappypilot posted:
So, their souls aren't weighed down by gravity.. ..because they're too high?
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Jan 21, 2015 05:17
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Oh god that's really cool.
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Jan 21, 2015 05:18
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Loving the prototypes having real issues just functioning in this show.
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Jan 23, 2015 04:02
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I enjoyed this episode but man was it weird. The political maneuvering is like five miles deep at this point and the writing makes it goddamn hard to keep track of it beyond a certain point. I did enjoy just how hosed up the fight scene was, including people firing on their own theoretical allies.
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Jan 23, 2015 04:52
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Maarak posted:Loving the prototypes having real issues just functioning in this show.  Nothing loving Works Right: The Series
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Jan 23, 2015 06:42
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ImpAtom posted:I enjoyed this episode but man was it weird. The political maneuvering is like five miles deep at this point and the writing makes it goddamn hard to keep track of it beyond a certain point. Exactly. Not even the principle characters can keep track of what's going on, yet they're all desperate to outmanuever the others at every turn.
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Jan 23, 2015 07:08
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ImpAtom posted:I enjoyed this episode but man was it weird. The political maneuvering is like five miles deep at this point and the writing makes it goddamn hard to keep track of it beyond a certain point. The short of it was don't fight around the goddamn Hermes Foundation ship or we're all hosed. I did chuckle at some random chip flinging itself out of Barara's console though  . Anyone else think that the head on Raraiya's new MS is going to pop off at some point and reveal a Gundam head beneath? The design's a thousand years old, and it's got the samurai mask...
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Jan 23, 2015 07:14
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I always figured that if your shield gets hit by something strong enough to break it, it's not gonna matter much if it's got guns/missiles cause you're gonna be hosed anyways.
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Jan 23, 2015 10:59
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Neddy Seagoon posted:Anyone else think that the head on Raraiya's new MS is going to pop off at some point and reveal a Gundam head beneath? The design's a thousand years old, and it's got the samurai mask... It pops off to reveal the Nise Gundam head, just to gently caress with everyone.
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Jan 23, 2015 13:47
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How much do they use the whole thing of Minovsky particles obscuring communication on the battlefield in other Gundam series? I don't remember it being used that much in 0079, but it's been a while, and there's a bunch of UC stuff I haven't watched. I like how Tomino uses it in G-Reco to drive home the idea of how quickly things get out of hand in the heat of a conflict.
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Jan 23, 2015 15:18
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Red Bones posted:How much do they use the whole thing of Minovsky particles obscuring communication on the battlefield in other Gundam series? I don't remember it being used that much in 0079, but it's been a while, and there's a bunch of UC stuff I haven't watched. I like how Tomino uses it in G-Reco to drive home the idea of how quickly things get out of hand in the heat of a conflict. They tend to mostly use it to nullify radar or long-range weaponry, although the communication thing is used a few times. G-Reco really plays it up though with people needing close-range to communicate at all even with allies.
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Jan 23, 2015 15:24
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ImpAtom posted:They tend to mostly use it to nullify radar or long-range weaponry, although the communication thing is used a few times. To be fair, their technology's advanced to the point that everything's using Minovsky Particles, and more of them.
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Jan 23, 2015 16:09
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There's more ships and suits up on the official website. A lot of neat designs, but I spent most of my time staring at the Kashiba-Mihoshi picture and trying to visually process it. I eventually succeeded, but ye gods, it was not easy.
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Jan 23, 2015 16:16
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Darth Walrus posted:There's more ships and suits up on the official website. A lot of neat designs, but I spent most of my time staring at the Kashiba-Mihoshi picture and trying to visually process it. I eventually succeeded, but ye gods, it was not easy. Man, the Venus Globe mecha are some weird poo poo.
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Jan 23, 2015 16:18
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ImpAtom posted:Man, the Venus Globe mecha are some weird poo poo. I dunno, they're pretty standard looking except for the one thats a big mobile armor. The pilots for them look pretty cool though, in the character section. The Gaeon pilot isn't who I thought it was at all, and the Gold suits pilot is a buff lady that likes working out a lot. The Gold one uses High Output Photon batteries to power ultrabeamsabers, which is presumably why it has power cords leading to the hands. I forgot theres a turn around view they actually go the giant beam sabers ahahah sick. Sharkopath fucked around with this message at 16:29 on Jan 23, 2015 |
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Jan 23, 2015 16:21
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