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paranoid randroid posted:Karkat got offed as an object lesson by Robo-Jane. Actually Kanaya is really cool and really good. And Vriska hasn't is the thing. All her old issues just remain, and remain, and still remain. She doesn't change, it's her thing, and if she did change significantly i'd probably be really angry. It just doesn't seem right for Vriska to become a better person. The only growth she ever had was to realize that she could still be cool and hardcore without having to be the main protagonist of the story, which leaves her as still a bad person so I was okay with it. And that development is gone too, so she'll likely just have her same exact flaws again, the same flaws that have been discussed and developed to death, because if she was to move past these flaws she would stop being Vriska as they are what make her character.
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Jan 19, 2015 23:21
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So I wonder what Aradia's up to?
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Jan 19, 2015 23:22
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paranoid randroid posted:Karkat got offed as an object lesson by Robo-Jane. The difference is that those characters did change, and did develop (the fact that some of them developped new issues notwithstanding) whereas Vriska, especially this Vriska who didn't even got her worldview challenged by the rebellion of her pirate crew in the afterlife, is still presumably the same egomaniacal rear end in a top hat we've seen in act 5, unless she somehow learned about teamwork and friendship and all that fun stuff on the meteor.
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Jan 19, 2015 23:23
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I feel this is a cheap ploy on Hussie's part to recapture the "magic" of the arguments following [S] Wake, except from an intensely meta angle.
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Jan 19, 2015 23:27
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Is there a reason that the mystery leader in Rose and Jade's story couldn't be the Mayor? Because he fits the "unexpected" bill perfectly.
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Jan 19, 2015 23:32
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TinTower posted:Please let Lord English suplex Vriska sixteen times. EAT SLEEP ALREADY HERE REPEAT
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Jan 19, 2015 23:36
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I appreciate what Vriska has contributed to the plot, and while I do not like her as a character, I at least recognize that she was the catalyst for most of Act 5's conflicts. What I don't understand is why people think this is a good thing that she's back to gently caress poo poo up, while we know very well now this is the moment when poo poo needs to get unfucked. Say what you will about Tavros, but I think he was pretty much right on the money when he said that the spidertroll has stopped qualifying as a protagonist a long while ago: she is a villain, and we already have more than enough villains to go around. I think I would be more forgiving if I at least found her charming, but an overconfident destructive teenager gets real tiring real fast. I repeat my question: what is it that everyone likes so much about her?
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Jan 19, 2015 23:40
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hubris is fun
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Jan 19, 2015 23:50
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paradoxGentleman posted:I appreciate what Vriska has contributed to the plot, and while I do not like her as a character, I at least recognize that she was the catalyst for most of Act 5's conflicts. What I don't understand is why people think this is a good thing that she's back to gently caress poo poo up, while we know very well now this is the moment when poo poo needs to get unfucked. Say what you will about Tavros, but I think he was pretty much right on the money when he said that the spidertroll has stopped qualifying as a protagonist a long while ago: she is a villain, and we already have more than enough villains to go around. With guidance, Vriska was a force multiplier in the Troll's session. Her mind control was key in removing the Black Queen from the table even before considering her part in the battle against the Black King. She just wasn't one you'd want to leave to her own devices.
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Jan 20, 2015 00:11
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Every one of Vriska's endings have basically been failures, ways to write her out of the story as a cautionary tale or a tragic figure or something like that. She's the highest-profile version of a problem which plagued pretty much everyone in the lead-up to Game Over, even Terezi only saw where she went wrong and needed John to go back and fix things. She and the rest of the characters now have a chance to actually succeed and grow. They might already be off to a good start if Terezi's still blind and Rose isn't drunk. It'll be kind of funny if Hussie completely skips over showing what happened over the last three years and all the meteor characters are just well-adjusted and developed now, leaving all their growth to our imagination.
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Jan 20, 2015 00:16
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This is also Vriska with three years of time on the meteor. We know how much that can change other characters, I'm sure she's grown up some too. We're going to see some interesting stuff here very soon. But first, more Caliborn?
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Jan 20, 2015 00:17
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I am one of those people who, short of seeing Hussie figuratively trapped in a narrative, is never going to doub that he knows what he's doing, so I'm giving him the benefit of the doubt on this one. I am still not that fond of this development, but he's not going to screw this up now.
paradoxGentleman fucked around with this message at 00:29 on Jan 20, 2015 |
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Jan 20, 2015 00:25
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karmicknight posted:EAT LADIES AND GENTLEMEN, MY NAME IS DOC SCRATCH, AND I AM THE ADVOCATE FOR THE BEAST INCARNATE, LORD ENNNNNGGGG-LISSSSSHHHHH!
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Jan 20, 2015 00:26
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paranoid randroid posted:Oh my god I'm arguing about Degrassi With Bugpeople - it really is Vriskatime again. The Vriskatime was inside you all along.
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Jan 20, 2015 00:40
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Dolash posted:Every one of Vriska's endings have basically been failures, ways to write her out of the story as a cautionary tale or a tragic figure or something like that. She's the highest-profile version of a problem which plagued pretty much everyone in the lead-up to Game Over, even Terezi only saw where she went wrong and needed John to go back and fix things. She and the rest of the characters now have a chance to actually succeed and grow. It's just that a Vriska who succeeds and grows would be so uninteresting to me. One of my favourite things about Vriska is that she is not just unchanging but in fact does not want to change. Every time she feels guilt or shame in regards to her actions she blames anything else and acts as if she was in the right all along, despite having all the opportunities and motives to do so. Vriska always refuses to change and that's more interesting to me than someone who realised they went wrong somewhere and wants to improve themselves. I know you mentioned Terezi as a character who also gets a chance to grow but the difference is Terezi regretted her decisions and wanted to change, same with Rose and her alcoholism, but Vriska didn't and she never has. Even after getting Meenah as a role-model Vriska never really accepts that her decisions were wrong she just decides that she is already cool and badass and doesn't need to be the main character. A Vriska who actually grows a person who regrets her decisions and is actively sorry for them would be, to me at least, a much less well-done character than a Vriska who refuses to regret or feel sorry for any of her actions, despite having every reason in the world to. I really enjoy Vriska's character, she is funny, entertaining and takes initiative, a rarity in homestuck even though virtually all her actions result in the opposite of actual progress. But one of my favourite things about her character is that it ended, and that it ended with her the same as she began which was remarkably appropriate. And then she came back to do more stuff but even her little coda about how she becomes fine with accepting that she's not the main character, I was fine with because she still refused to regret any of her decisions or feel sorry for them. And now she's been brought back again and she will either achieve growth, which goes against what I enjoy about her character, or she will remain exactly the same, in which case what was the point of her being brought back in the first place. Now, I actually trust that Hussie knows what he's doing with his characters, they're what he excels in but at the moment I can't help but think that Vriska returning to prominence will only make me like her less than I did before this.
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Jan 20, 2015 01:03
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All Vriska did this time was walk in and put someone to sleep. Imagine the next Vriska Time™ when she actually does something?
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Jan 20, 2015 01:08
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I'm looking forward to the next update in twelve months, as I hope it will show Vriska learnt absolutely nothing and now has even more irons in the fire.
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Jan 20, 2015 01:49
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Vriska's lack of growth up to this point seems to me to have been an extension of the previous theme of futility and inevitability in the story. Most of the characters were kind of passive and just sort of carried along by events, which supported the idea that, with Lord English in command of the Alpha timeline, the players ultimately served him, and that their choices were somewhat irrelevant. We saw beta ghosts of timelines where the characters did grow and succeed, but we're doomed because fate demanded otherwise. John is the biggest supporter of this, as he is near criminally passive, but is now starting to gently caress poo poo up. Vriska was always a very proactive character, out there doing stuff, so the futility of her life is shown in that she can't improve or change for the better, she's stuck in a rut.
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Jan 20, 2015 02:02
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TinTower posted:LADIES AND GENTLEMEN, MY NAME IS DOC SCRATCH, AND I AM THE ADVOCATE FOR THE BEAST INCARNATE, LORD ENNNNNGGGG-LISSSSSHHHHH! headcanon caliborn voice accepted LETS. DO. THIS?
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Jan 20, 2015 02:25
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Arsenic Lupin posted:Is there a reason that the mystery leader in Rose and Jade's story couldn't be the Mayor? Because he fits the "unexpected" bill perfectly. WV's got both military and civil leadership experience. If anyone's capable of taking up the leadership, he's probably the most qualified.
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Jan 20, 2015 02:26
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also the secret hero is obviously casey and her undead army
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Jan 20, 2015 02:26
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Okay, now I see how this works. Vriska gets some sense KAPOWed into her and decides to not gently caress everything up for a change. Her survival, and apparent sanity-promoting presence, enables them to incapacitate Jade, which means Jade never steals the post-apocalyptic earth, which means Caliborn and Calliope never gestate on its ruins. In other words, we're entering the plotline in which Lord English never comes into being. It was Terezi's plan, and John's intervention, but Vriska got to be the instrument of it, though the fact that everybody on the meteor at the end of the ride looks to have kept it together better than last time suggests that she didn't let that knowledge go to her head. Lord English can still exist in the plotline that didn't create him because he is unstuck from the plot in a similar way to John; his escape was even connected to the same "treasure" which we still don't know what it is and may never know. We haven't heard the last of his origin story by a longshot, however. For Act 6 Act 6 Act 5, I guess we'll see how this new situation plays out straightforwardly, now that the universe is not predestined to fail but the situation is still dire. It will probably turn out to be a bloodbath anyway, but less of a complete clusterfuck.
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Jan 20, 2015 03:39
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I'm pretty sure Vriska doesn't so much consciously decide to not gently caress everything up as she spends the time between then and the meteor departing being too unconscious to do anything about it. Which forces her to have some down time to chill, think, and interact with people.
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Jan 20, 2015 03:57
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I don't think Lord English's canonical existance has been negated, because that would also negate Calliope, and that seems needlessly cruel. Unless Vriska somehow remembers everything that happened in the dream bubbles and this somehow means that Calliope still exists, too.
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Jan 20, 2015 04:02
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Bobulus posted:I don't think Lord English's canonical existance has been negated, because that would also negate Calliope, and that seems needlessly cruel. Unless Vriska somehow remembers everything that happened in the dream bubbles and this somehow means that Calliope still exists, too. Hm, I think you're right. Calliope's continued existence in the new revision is a conundrum. But there's still plenty of time for everything to go wrong in the coming act act act.
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Jan 20, 2015 04:11
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I don't think we ever saw how Earth went from Sea Hitler's Waterlogged Fun Planet to The Sandy Statue Depot, did we?Captain Oblivious posted:I'm pretty sure Vriska doesn't so much consciously decide to not gently caress everything up as she spends the time between then and the meteor departing being too unconscious to do anything about it. Plus now there is a little shouty man, blind guy, and vampire lady to help keep her from running off.
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Jan 20, 2015 04:23
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Ariong posted:I don't think we ever saw how Earth went from Sea Hitler's Waterlogged Fun Planet to The Sandy Statue Depot, did we? Unless we're going Full Tumblr, Terezi's not a guy 
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Jan 20, 2015 04:35
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sollux
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Jan 20, 2015 04:38
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Classtoise posted:Unless we're going Full Tumblr, Terezi's not a guy Sollux went blind after getting blasted into a wall by Eridan.
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Jan 20, 2015 04:39
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I thought Sollux was only half-blind? As per the binary gag.
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Jan 20, 2015 04:51
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Classtoise posted:I thought Sollux was only half-blind? As per the binary gag. No, only half dead Sollux is half-blind. Fully alive Sollux (the Sollux on the meteor) is completely blind.
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Jan 20, 2015 04:52
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SyntheticPolygon posted:No, only half dead Sollux is half-blind. Fully alive Sollux (the Sollux on the meteor) is completely blind. Does that mean fully dead Sollux can see just fine?
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Jan 20, 2015 04:53
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What I want to know is how does Vriska being alive lead to Rose not becoming an alcoholic?
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Jan 20, 2015 05:13
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Grapplejack posted:What I want to know is how does Vriska being alive lead to Rose not becoming an alcoholic? Because Vriska would make sure everyone's rear end is in gear.
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Jan 20, 2015 05:26
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Classtoise posted:Does that mean fully dead Sollux can see just fine? Yup, for much the same reason that most of the ghosts walking around the afterlife don't have gaping wounds. He wasn't blind for the majority of his life and it didn't really define who he was. Grapplejack posted:What I want to know is how does Vriska being alive lead to Rose not becoming an alcoholic? It's likely that Vriska's presence, or at least the lack of her death weighing on Terezi's conscience, prevented Terezi from getting into her black relationship with Gamzee, which in turn would prevent Rose from trying to be their clubs marriage councilor thing, which would keep her from descending into alcoholism. That, or Vriska somehow prevented Rose from getting into a relationship with Kanaya which caused her to alchemize alcohol in the first place.
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Jan 20, 2015 05:32
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Cleretic posted:It's been a long time, but when she died, didn't she want to go on a human date with John? Maybe she'll date Karkat in an attempt to make John jealous.
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Jan 20, 2015 05:41
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Grapplejack posted:What I want to know is how does Vriska being alive lead to Rose not becoming an alcoholic? The last person she talked to before it was Gamzee, so him not being a threat might have something to do with it. Alternatively, Karkat, Dave and Terezi are all 100% less dealing with their own horseshit, and Vriska might be willing to help a fellow Light player (even if it IS her red-crush's girlfriend)
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Jan 20, 2015 06:05
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Ariong posted:I don't think we ever saw how Earth went from Sea Hitler's Waterlogged Fun Planet to The Sandy Statue Depot, did we? Well, we don't know what the deal is with the statues, but the lack of water can definitely be explained by the proximity to the sun. Probably really hot.
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Jan 20, 2015 06:33
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Classtoise posted:Does that mean fully dead Sollux can see just fine? No, he's double blind.
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Jan 20, 2015 06:49
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Glazius posted:Well, assuming this whole thing escaped the eye of Lord English, if Jade and Jane both were getting an information feed from )(IC they both "knew" Vriska was dead. They mean before the three year trip, when Jade was the portal to the meteor momentarily. She should have known from that that Vriska was still alive, and it's not like the memory loss from being incapacitated by Vriska was super long-term. Bobulus posted:We know what they do after this. With Jade 'missing', all the Batterwitch's plans are derailed, so the kids have time stage a jailbreak for Roxy. I was going to say "But that Roxy's dead," but do we actually know if the Jade and Jane that are with Calliope are from the same timeline? The way Jane sets up the mysterious extra protagonist and Jade continues from that point suggests they are, which means that yeah, Roxy's dead. paradoxGentleman posted:I repeat my question: what is it that everyone likes so much about her? SA people like her because most SA people are the exact same kind of person as her, while Tumblr likes her because Tumblr likes to be protective of any character who is "misunderstood", evidenced by people genuinely defending Cronus. I think she's a well-written character, certainly, but her attitude of trying to be taken seriously while blaming everything that goes wrong for her and everyone else on everything and everyone else does not endear me to her as a person. She's predominately seemed like a self-interested and self-motivated person at the best of times and a horrifyingly antagonistic person at the worst of times from what I remember of Act 5 and onwards, and while it's possible to love a villain, and one of those writing clichés tells us that a villain is the hero of their own story, being proven to actually not be the centre of the universe time and again should inspire some sort of change; any sort of change. When that change doesn't happen or what minuscule change there is is undone, I'm done being even remotely interested in the outcome. Bell_ posted:With guidance, Vriska was a force multiplier in the Troll's session. Her mind control was key in removing the Black Queen from the table even before considering her part in the battle against the Black King. Maybe I've just got a terrible memory, but I could've sworn that the Black Queen was removed from play because of Aradia's prototyping of a frog. And considering the only thing involving both the prototyping and Vriska's mind-control was Aradia being murdered, I don't think that really applies. frozentreasure fucked around with this message at 07:07 on Jan 20, 2015 |
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