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Radish posted:If this is true, can you add Brettonians in on this? I'm thinking they'll need it Strictly speaking you already can with the human lists
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Jan 20, 2015 16:08
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Radish posted:If this is true, can you add Brettonians in on this? I'm thinking they'll need it enri posted:Strictly speaking you already can with the human lists Yeah isn't it that the Kingdom of Men list allows you to do all-cav, or nearly all-cav? I mean, it might not be all that good, but neither is Bretts right now, so it wouldn't exactly be a major change 
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Jan 20, 2015 16:09
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efb but I still put the link in first  Radish posted:If this is true, can you add Brettonians in on this? I'm thinking they'll need it It's already a relatively straightforward affair to play your Brettonians as a Kingdoms of Men, you'd probably just need to add an infantry type or two, like maybe some War of the Roses Pikemen or other historicals.
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Jan 20, 2015 16:12
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enri posted:Strictly speaking you already can with the human lists Last time I played KoW the human list seemed like a straight Empire analogue, not so much Brets but I guess the game is simple enough you could just use all knights and archers or something but it just doesn't feel the same.
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Jan 20, 2015 16:13
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NTRabbit posted:efb but I still put the link in first Don't even need to do that. KoM covers Brets already (Alessio wrote KoM specifically so he could play his Brets army in KoW). Knights Errant/Kings of the Realm are covered under Knights. Men at Arms are either Shieldwall or Phalanx depending on how you see their weapons. Bowmen are a missile regiment. Pegsus Knights are covered with Pegasus heroes. Pilgrims as Penitents. Trebuchet as Trebuchet Questing & Grail Knights aren't really covered by rules for units, but you could give them a magic artefact to set them apart from regular Knights if you wanted. Daedleh fucked around with this message at 16:30 on Jan 20, 2015 |
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Jan 20, 2015 16:17
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Well that was a pretty neat game to watch, seemed pretty close but wow, rolling for charging really messed up the Bug's momentum. I'll have to see how a range vs range army works instead of a heavy all range vs a pure melee army go and I'd also like to see the Mind Magic Phase in action. Never seen Apocalypse run before either, no one at my old LGS had the time, energy or money to put together a force that big so it never really got off the ground here. It looks like fun but I can only imagine the headache of moving all those poo poo tons of units around, games must last for freaking ever.
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Jan 20, 2015 16:32
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lilljonas posted:Thanks. The point here is that theory says that an arbitrage will eventually be exploited. In GW's case, they increased the cost of their products in some marketplaces. Third parties such as web shops realized that they could take the product and sell it to these markets, and even including postage and handling they could do it for a significantly lower cost and still make a profit. Arbitrage. Oh, I hope I didn't imply that any of this was wrong! I was actually thinking about writing a big long post about arbitrage sometime soon. GW's approach to the arbitrage problem bears more resemblance to what the regulators did (somewhat successfully) with the DVD format and region codes. In order to be able to artificially control where and when movies got released on DVD, they forced manufacturers to implant region-checking code into DVD players, so if you buy a DVD and send it overseas to the wrong place, it won't play at all. This way they could preserve the (obsolete) practice of releasing movies to different regions weeks or months apart... and also adjust pricing of DVDs to fit the local purchasing power. Of course, almost immediately after DVD players started to be sold, region-free DVD players started popping up. A Danish friend of mine living in the US bought one I think two or three months after DVDs started showing up in stores, so she could import and watch stuff from her native country as well as US (region 1) DVDs bought locally. This also hosed over people who bought DVD-roms for their computers, and then discovered that because these devices were region-free, they couldn't actually play movies on them at all. I recall that situation persisted for Linux users for quite a while. Games Workshop's problem, of course, is that their only recourse is to cut off retailers who they think are breaking the rules. They can't do jack or poo poo about what happens after the distributor level, though; they can use contracts to publish distributors when products they've distributed wind up online or being sold across their artificial region restrictions, but do that too much and you find yourself running out of distributors pretty quickly. And obviously the second-hand market, run by eBay stores and individuals, is completely beyond their ability to control, both practically and legally. So yes. Arbitrageurs always find a way to exploit artificial price gaps that are beyond the actual "friction" costs inherent in purchasing power gaps and/or shipping costs. If you use laws to try to stop them, a black market forms (although the black market demands a larger cut to compensate for the legal risks, so the price gap available to exploit has to be a bit larger). Customers in (say) Brazil or New Zealand would probably rather buy from a trusted source, such as GW or a major retailer (who is probably still beholden to a contract with GW). They're probably willing to pay a small premium for that assurance. GW has set that premium far too high, at least according to several reports in this very thread, and thus they have created a marketplace for arbitrageurs. My previous point still stands: you can't just flat compare prices after doing a currency conversion and then claim that you're "paying more" than Americans. However, you can include a factor for PPP, and show that the gap is so large that whatever inaccuracy is inherent in the particular method used to calculate that PPP is probably still not enough to account for the large price gap, and at that point, you have a genuine beef. Leperflesh fucked around with this message at 16:44 on Jan 20, 2015 |
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Jan 20, 2015 16:41
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Leperflesh posted:Oh, I hope I didn't imply that any of this was wrong! I was actually thinking about writing a big long post about arbitrage sometime soon. We're on the very same page here, absolutely. I just reacted to your previous post as it, taken on it's own, as it kind of made it sound like PPP was the dominant factor at work. I think that it is rather a factor that affects how you consider whether it is worth it to go through an arbitrageur or not. GW's problem is that they act like the cost and difficulty of shipping of their product is larger than it is. For example, a Fender guitar is more expensive here in Sweden than in the US, even after you look at taxes and currency conversion etc. However, shipping a guitar from the US is very costly and quite tricky to do without damaging the guitar, so the option of buying it from my local shop is still more attractive. The makers logistic chain means that the music shops can get guitars much more easily than a single individual customer, so that's why the stores have a business. A GW box set, however, is lightweight and durable for shipping. There's very few reasons for why I would hesitate to buy models online from other countries. Sure, if I buy from the US there's a small risk of getting stuck in customs, but it has only happened to me once. So, if I can find what I consider a deal, I'll jump at it and take that small risk. Fender, and the music industry in large, can play by completely different rules than GW, because their product is completely different. However, GW refuses to acknowledge this fact, pissing off everyone. Now, if visiting a brick-and-mortar store is an amazing Willy Wonka level experience, you'll consider paying that extra to do your business there. But that extra has to be reasonable compared to what you get out of it.
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Jan 20, 2015 17:09
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serious gaylord posted:I kind of have to admit that the Karl Franz thing is entirely made up. I did it as an experiment to see how far it would reach based on nothing but absolute lies. I just shrunk down a Maulerfiend base to fit. Look at all these nerds believing one thing I made up in the sea of other things that I didn't make up, how loving stupid can those shitlords be? 
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Jan 20, 2015 18:39
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It's almost as if 30 years of stupid GW decisions has left us predisposed to expecting them!
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Jan 20, 2015 18:46
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but we have to believe him when he says something about gw because he knows better than everyone here
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Jan 20, 2015 18:47
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Admiral Joeslop posted:Look at all these nerds believing one thing I made up in the sea of other things that I didn't make up, how loving stupid can those shitlords be? That's some strong denial bro.
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Jan 20, 2015 19:08
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Daedleh posted:but we have to believe him when he says something about gw because he knows better than everyone here
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Jan 20, 2015 19:08
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I know it wouldn't do anything at all, but sometimes I feel like I just want to start a petition to be like "Games workshop, your customers are not as dumb as you think they are. Stop gouging people on prices and you will more than make your money back by introducing new players to the game." It's painful to watch them gently caress things up year after year after year. A friend of mine just bought a tau battleforce, and already he is fatigued by the overwhelming cost of getting a proper army up and running. This is a brand new loving customer with lots of interest in the products, and he's already discouraged like 2 months in to the hobby. I want to play bigger games with him, but I can't in good conscience urge him to keep buying poo poo at these prices. It's frustrating.
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Jan 20, 2015 19:26
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Daedleh posted:but we have to believe him when he says something about gw because he knows better than everyone here He's got the scoops, brother! [/psp]
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Jan 20, 2015 19:27
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Ignite Memories posted:I know it wouldn't do anything at all, but sometimes I feel like I just want to start a petition to be like There's already at least one petition like this floating around. Assuming enough people sign it, and someone at GW actually reads it, they will just ignore it. They literally do not care about their customers.
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Jan 20, 2015 19:31
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Admiral Joeslop posted:There's already at least one petition like this floating around. Assuming enough people sign it, and someone at GW actually reads it, they will just ignore it. They literally do not care about their customers. If it's that petition from last year, it's both terribly written, and dumb in several respects. But of course you're right about GW ignoring them, because GW's management has open contempt for the opinions of customers (as expressed on the internet).
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Jan 20, 2015 19:39
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Admiral Joeslop posted:Look at all these nerds believing one thing I made up in the sea of other things that I didn't make up, how loving stupid can those shitlords be? jesus what a weenie
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Jan 20, 2015 19:54
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Ignite Memories posted:I know it wouldn't do anything at all, but sometimes I feel like I just want to start a petition to be like A) Yes the customers are just as dumb as they think they are. B) Why stop gouging? People keep paying, see A. Indolent Bastard fucked around with this message at 20:14 on Jan 20, 2015 |
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Jan 20, 2015 19:57
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Leperflesh posted:But of course you're right about GW ignoring them, because GW's management has open contempt for the opinions of customers (as expressed on the internet). As expressed in court, which the record reflects
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Jan 20, 2015 20:11
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I mean the opinions of customers expressed on the internet, not GW's contempt expressed on the internet, because GW's contempt is expressed in their official financial reports. And also, as you say, in court (tee hee).
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Jan 20, 2015 20:21
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Indolent Bastard posted:A) Yes the customers are just as dumb as they think they are. Increasing prices as less and less people are buying the product will only work for so long. Knowing GW they'll probably keep going until their entire yearly profit is made off of one really rich person.
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Jan 20, 2015 20:28
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Admiral Joeslop posted:Knowing GW they'll probably keep going until their entire yearly profit is made off of one really rich person. But enough about Ghost Hand.
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Jan 20, 2015 20:31
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Indolent Bastard posted:A) Yes the customers are just as dumb as they think they are. You're just trolling, right? Surely you are intelligent enough to understand that one fifth of the customers buying a product at twice the profit margin makes you less money?
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Jan 20, 2015 20:35
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Ignite Memories posted:You're just trolling, right? Surely you are intelligent enough to understand that one fifth of the customers buying a product at twice the profit margin makes you less money? Not really, your "one fifth of the customers buying a product at twice the profit margin" is made up of precious little statistical data and a whole lot of conjecture. You may not be wrong, but have little to back those assertions up. You yourself are a good example of how stupid (sorry, but that is the word you used) GW customers can be. You hate their business practices but keep buying kits from them. You know Flash Gits are a 2nd or 3rd tier unit, but you bought a second box at full retail. And you repeatedly comment on how much more stuff you want to buy. If you want things to change stop supporting them and their terrible business practices, go play something else for a while and see if GW comes around to become the company you want them to be. If you can't bear to play anything outside the Warhammer Universe try these: https://onepagerules.wordpress.com/ If you can get away from the Hamverse there are dozens of games waiting for you with open arms. Indolent Bastard fucked around with this message at 20:58 on Jan 20, 2015 |
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Jan 20, 2015 20:55
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Indolent Bastard posted:Not really, your "one fifth of the customers buying a product at twice the profit margin" is made up of precious little statistical data and a whole lot of conjecture. You may not be wrong, but have little to back those assertions up. You yourself are a good example of how stupid (sorry, but that is the word you used) GW customers can be. You hate their business practices but keep buying kits from them. You know Flash Gits are a 2nd or 3rd tier unit, but you bought a second box at full retail. And you repeatedly comment on how much more stuff you want to buy. I agree with the other guy and I haven't bought anything from GW in two years
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Jan 20, 2015 20:58
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Admiral Joeslop posted:I agree with the other guy and I haven't bought anything from GW in two years I'm not saying he's wrong, but he's like the tenant that keeps bitching about his lovely landlord and lovely apartment, but keeps paying to live there and refuses to move out because he likes the neighborhood. I see his point, but eventually you either need to embrace the abuse like many on here have, or move on.
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Jan 20, 2015 21:02
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I remember the whole story about GW loving over online distributors and such. It caused a huge stir here. I live in Colombia, and we don't really HAVE any place that sells their games in any official way. So most people that bough the game had it brought over. I believe the guy that brought stuff over actually had a deal with a distributor to get stuff cheaper. This is very good, since, you see, the average Colombian makes a lot less money than, you know, the average US/UK citizen. It allowed people to get into the hobby. Hell, it got ME into the hobby. I have a ridiculous amount of 40k Orks. Now... a lot of the products have to be ordered directly from GW. SOME can still be gotten via online distribution, but, well, price gouging. Finecast just pissed people off. To make matters worse? Well, the Colombian Peso averaged at 2000 COP = 1 USD. Today? 2377. Beggining of the year? 2600+ It's currently going DOWN which is good for us but still. So, with those prices, people have been buying GW less and less. I don't see that many people playing WH anymore. Warmachine and Infinity are kings at the moment.
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Jan 20, 2015 21:08
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I know that Mantic is trying to get away from being "not-GW," but I wish Warpath was a better 40K clone. As in, I wish it unabashedly had space catholics and space wizards and space demons and such. Maybe I just need to look deeper into it, but it seems like their main answer to Chaos is the plague guys and ehh... It's still a bit too serious sci-fi for me. This is very relatively speaking, obviously, since they do have space dwarves and space ratmen, but the whole Corporation thing and the look of their troops seems a bit more on the cyberpunk side of grimdark.
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Jan 20, 2015 21:13
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Indolent Bastard posted:I'm not saying he's wrong, but he's like the tenant that keeps bitching about his lovely landlord and lovely apartment, but keeps paying to live there and refuses to move out because he likes the neighborhood. I see his point, but eventually you either need to embrace the abuse like many on here have, or move on. Sure, i am a chump, but I'm a chump who is purchasing a fraction of the product that I used to buy. I've spent about $200 on 40k in the past 5 years, and much of that is buying cheaper models from places that aren't GW. Hell, a quarter of that is the drat codex. At one point I was planning to buy a second army once I'd finished my orks. With prices the way they are now, there's no way that's going to happen. There are lots of rooms in this apartment, and if no one moves into the other ones my landlord doesn't do very well financially. edit: also not sure what you mean by "constantly talking about how much more I want to buy." I have made a couple "hey this ramshackle model is cheap, is this a good size for an ork trukk?" type posts, but... that's not exactly helpful for GWs bottom line now is it? Ignite Memories fucked around with this message at 21:41 on Jan 20, 2015 |
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Jan 20, 2015 21:15
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JerryLee posted:I know that Mantic is trying to get away from being "not-GW," but I wish Warpath was a better 40K clone. As in, I wish it unabashedly had space catholics and space wizards and space demons and such. Maybe I just need to look deeper into it, but it seems like their main answer to Chaos is the plague guys and ehh... I think they're working on a new version of Warpath some time this year, with a "here is platoon level combat, which is a squad or two + vehicle" and "full-blown 40k-level games" as two different types of game modes. If nothing else you can just use existing 40k models with the rules, it's not like they'd give a poo poo.
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Jan 20, 2015 21:38
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serious gaylord posted:Well I posted the image in the death pool thread with a really flimsy excuse for its existence. Its a shrunken version of the maulerfiend base off the GW website. "All those stupid people who thought my photoshopped "round base" was real, , round bases are real but not THAT one!"I guess he doesn't want to explain himself in the actual Death Pool thread? Is there anyone at GW who has been there since the beginning, or even near it?
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Jan 20, 2015 21:43
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In the fantasy threads everyone's giving him high fives for owning the haters. Someone asked for proof that he photoshopped it. As of right now that hasn't been addressed, of course. Edit: Gav Thorpe is still around. As a reminder, this is the man that ran the fantasy campaign that was based off of players winning and losing battles while playing specific factions. Obviously, the actual results were thrown out when Thorpe didn't like them and he wrote the story to be how he wanted it as opposed to the results created by the contributions of thousands of people. He's also a huge Dark Elf fan, with dark elves being one of the (if not THE) best armies going on 2 editions now. Business Gorillas fucked around with this message at 21:50 on Jan 20, 2015 |
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Jan 20, 2015 21:46
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Business Gorillas posted:In the fantasy threads everyone's giving him high fives for owning the haters. Someone asked for proof that he photoshopped it. As of right now that hasn't been addressed, of course. That was Storms of Chaos, right? The Orc players colluded somehow and got Orcs into the finals, and Grim-whatever just punched Archaon in the face and killed him in game? Amazing if so and they should have just ran with it. You can never ever run any kind of contest where people vote or compete to do something but at the same time have a plan for what you want to happen. Unless you just cheat and nudge the results anyway.
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Jan 20, 2015 21:53
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Admiral Joeslop posted:That was Storms of Chaos, right? The Orc players colluded somehow and got Orcs into the finals, and Grim-whatever just punched Archaon in the face and killed him in game? Amazing if so and they should have just ran with it. You can never ever run any kind of contest where people vote or compete to do something but at the same time have a plan for what you want to happen. Unless you just cheat and nudge the results anyway. He didn't kill him. He literally just stomped his poo poo in, put an axe against his neck, yelled out 'Grimgor is da best!' and then all the Orcs went home. It was the most blatant 'we didn't want things to end this way how do we write ourselves out of this' I've ever seen from GW.
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Jan 20, 2015 22:09
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Business Gorillas posted:In the fantasy threads everyone's giving him high fives for owning the haters. Someone asked for proof that he photoshopped it. As of right now that hasn't been addressed, of course. for reference, the original post is serious gaylord posted:Reportedly found by scraping their website. some dude ran it through photoshop orphean posted:
i guess the whole picture should have the same texture, but it's different around the base, but as i said at the time Leo Showers posted:I dislike GW as much as the next guy but it really could just be some dude running the stock photo through photoshop, given the amount of potential sperg and meltdowns which would occur if a picture of this nature was "leaked".
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Jan 20, 2015 22:11
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JerryLee posted:I know that Mantic is trying to get away from being "not-GW," but I wish Warpath was a better 40K clone. As in, I wish it unabashedly had space catholics and space wizards and space demons and such. Maybe I just need to look deeper into it, but it seems like their main answer to Chaos is the plague guys and ehh... Deadzone and Dreadball should give you further information on what exists i terms of aliens in the Warpath uninverse, but how many of them will reach fully fledged armies isn't really known. Not sure it's ever going to be truly grimdark, although there is a Dreadball Xtreme MVP who is the last of his species, because as a famous explorer he was at the front of their early space exploration when a human liner suffered a critical drive failure near his home system, wiping out his entire race. When he landed on the nearest planet, a Coporation colony, the locals convinced him the best way to gain revenge was to play Dreadball, and they made a lot of money off of him. There's also the Sphyr, the shark people whose homeworld was virtually destroyed when a bureaucratic error saw a group of Corporation warships use the 'empty' planet as a firing range to calibrate their weapons. Those are both pretty grim. There's the Tsudochan, who are a little bit space wizard in the Technomage from B5 mould "Although the Elder Worlds are their ancestral home, the Tsudoshans themselves have been encountered throughout the galaxy. This is mainly thanks to their Wanderers, a monastic order of travellers who roam the stars in search of cultures that might be convinced to follow the Path of the Galactic Truth. They prefer to preach to less advanced peoples who mistake their technological wizardry for divine miracle, but are more than willing to take the longer path with more advance civilisations." Ada-Lorena, who are made out of pure energy, the Kori who are teleporting spiders from another dimension, the Asterians who are a little bit Eldar-like except their society is so old that a lot of memories and history are lost - they know that they did some great things in the past, but sometimes can't remember how or why, ie they first defeated and contained the plague at great cost eons ago Don't think it's ever going to be the same kind of grimdark as 40k though, nothing will
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Jan 20, 2015 22:11
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S.J. posted:He didn't kill him. He literally just stomped his poo poo in, put an axe against his neck, yelled out 'Grimgor is da best!' and then all the Orcs went home. It was the most blatant 'we didn't want things to end this way how do we write ourselves out of this' I've ever seen from GW. Even before that, iirc originally orcs were just pawns of the chaos side like in a 40k video game until the orc players thought that was stupid and did their own thing. Also, since they never bothered to balance their armies, the results were so one sided that according to the player results archaon never made it to whatever big city they had the climax of the campaign at. Edit: At least on this site, I thought the big deal was the white dwarf cover with the round bases? Then again, serious gaylord could have also photoshopped that one to own an already owned community .
Business Gorillas fucked around with this message at 22:25 on Jan 20, 2015 |
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Jan 20, 2015 22:21
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Business Gorillas posted:In the fantasy threads everyone's giving him high fives for owning the haters. Someone asked for proof that he photoshopped it. As of right now that hasn't been addressed, of course. Its literally this image  with this base  to make this.  It wasnt exactly hard. Layer masking and the transform tool. I mean heres another. Doesnt quite work as well as the angle isnt exact like the previous, but still simple enough.  Exactly the same base. It wasn't done to 'own' anyone. I just wanted to see what would happen if you threw up completely unsubstantiated picture and how far it would get before anyone even questioned it. The round skaven bases are real, which probably helped with its believability.
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Jan 20, 2015 22:27
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Basically all that's been shown is that Poe's Law (or a corollary thereof) applies to Games Workshop, which is funny but not really earth-shattering.
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Jan 20, 2015 22:38
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