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It's never explained in detail, he's some kind of exception, but I'm not sure why.NoK posted:Jhedel looked Edgewalker up and down. ‘Not from where I’m sitting. Poor Edgewalker. Moaning his enslavement. Yet here you were long before the ones I slew to take the Throne. And here you remain after those who bound me in turn are long gone and forgotten. I’ve heard things about you . . . rumours.’ NoK posted:‘What of a ruler? If this is Shadow then does it have a throne?’ edit: theorycraft: maybe he's the one who shattered it, so his punishment is more severe? 02-6611-0142-1 fucked around with this message at 02:24 on Jan 21, 2015 |
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Jan 21, 2015 02:21
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Shadowthrone didn't actually take the throne, IIRC. He ascended, and it looks like he hid the throne so nobody else could take it, but he apparently gamed the system to take control of Shadow without whatever the price is of actually taking the throne. Edgewalker is probably the Azathanai aspected to Shadow, who got good and screwed up when Shadow got shattered. Maybe with some sort of combination exile (so he can't actually enter Shadow) and chaining (so he can't actually leave Shadow). That last part is obviously speculation based on that NoK quote.
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Jan 21, 2015 02:55
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Baudin posted:Fisher Kel Tath's background is covered in Assail, since it's an ICE book I guess I could spoil it? I missed that part about Fisher, cause gently caress rereading Assail. Fisher is involved in the beginning of FoD, where someone ( Gallan? ) describes the events for him, so shouldn't he be older than Assail? Speaking of Gallan, he hasn't shown up yet? We only know he will be sacrificed and thus creating Blind Gallan's road, but he seems pretty influential. Also from FoD, Envy and Spite have really not learned anything in their whole very long life, considering them in FoD and the main series. As for powerful characters only appearing a few times, Gethol (Gothos brother) is really a non-person in the series). [spoiler] Rarity posted:Oh god [spoiler]Sorry is normal again I did not see that coming and I feel so bad for her Rather "normal" again.
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Jan 21, 2015 08:18
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Cardiac posted:I missed that part about Fisher, cause gently caress rereading Assail. Fisher's not involved, he's just listening to the story. Gallan's telling him the story of FoD long after it's happened.
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Jan 21, 2015 13:16
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Leospeare posted:Fisher's not involved, he's just listening to the story. Gallan's telling him the story of FoD long after it's happened. Isn't there a description of Gallan being sacrificed for something and possibly opening the Road of Gallan. Ie if Gallan dies in the Kharkanas trilogy, Fisher must then also be present at that time. If not, then you are probably right.
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Jan 21, 2015 15:32
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Well, Fisher is supposed to be pretty old and given Assail and him having Jaghut blood or whatever the deal was it's entirely possible he doesn't age normally.
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Jan 21, 2015 16:19
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Cardiac posted:Isn't there a description of Gallan being sacrificed for something and possibly opening the Road of Gallan. That's assuming Gallan is sacrificed - I don't believe he is. He swallows his own eyes though! Thus the moniker
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Jan 21, 2015 16:42
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I just finished DG. I'm exhausted. I'm also frustrated at myself for not ordering MoI sooner - it's still in the mail and I really want to start reading it! Also, I was reading an old reddit post and the discussion turned to Duiker. I think some rear end in a top hat spoiled the ending to MoI. Can someone tell me if this is true: Duiker talks to the Bridgeburners at an inn, and begins to tell them Coltaine's story.
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Jan 22, 2015 11:47
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Yes. Don't worry, this is a pretty minor spoiler in the shitstorm that is to come. You should even be able to figure out how he got there.
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Jan 22, 2015 12:53
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neurotech posted:I just finished DG. I'm exhausted. I'm also frustrated at myself for not ordering MoI sooner - it's still in the mail and I really want to start reading it! Fun fact, MoI have very little to do with DG. The continuation of DG you will find in HoC. On the other hand MoI is great, so there are zero reasons not too read it.
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Jan 22, 2015 15:08
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MoI is a great book except for the million uses of the word 'mortal' He slows down on that after MoI
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Jan 22, 2015 15:14
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Gourd of Taste posted:MoI is a great book except for the million uses of the word 'mortal' Obligatory potsherds, ochre, efficacious, propitiations, grunted, spat.
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Jan 22, 2015 15:33
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He do love them potshards. I get that he's trying to convey the magnitude of just how many civilizations have come and gone but drat...
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Jan 22, 2015 17:02
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I'd gladly take a little repetitive language over the endless narrator-voice-wankery in the last three books. It's like his editor just threw up his hands and surrendered. It's like, yes Erikson, compassion is good and the world sucks, now stop flatly telling me so chapter after chapter after chapter. Tuxedo Catfish fucked around with this message at 20:47 on Jan 22, 2015 |
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Jan 22, 2015 20:43
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I'm at Toll the Hounds and between being not interested in the Tiste and all of the voice-wankery I've started just skimming pages and catching up by reading the re-read summaries.
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Jan 22, 2015 21:52
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anilEhilated posted:Yes. Don't worry, this is a pretty minor spoiler in the shitstorm that is to come. You should even be able to figure out how he got there. Okay that's reassuring. I'm going to take a poor guess at how he got there: His soul was shifted into the small glass bottle around his neck. Which is then collected by those two bhok'arala(?), who then take the bottle back to someone who resurrects him or something? I don't know. Cardiac posted:Fun fact, MoI have very little to do with DG. Yeah I can't wait for my copy to arrive!
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Jan 22, 2015 22:23
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neurotech posted:Okay that's reassuring. I'm going to take a poor guess at how he got there: His soul was shifted into the small glass bottle around his neck. Which is then collected by those two bhok'arala(?), who then take the bottle back to someone who resurrects him or something? I don't know. Completely correct!
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Jan 22, 2015 22:30
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02-6611-0142-1 posted:y. I thought Kilmandaros did that, or is that part where she smashes the gently caress out of them dragons getting me confused? anilEhilated posted:Well, Fisher is supposed to be pretty old and given Assail and him having Jaghut blood or whatever the deal was it's entirely possible he doesn't age normally. Forge of Darkness shook up so much poo poo that I thought I knew about the Malazan setting and turned it on it's head that I wouldn't be surprised to find out that some type of fuckery has happened where some different timelines, dimensions, planets or whatever have been merged and jumbled with eachother when all is said and done.
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Jan 22, 2015 22:49
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Baudin posted:Completely correct! Hahha holy poo poo that's great. And here I was thinking I didn't have a good grasp of the story. I'm tempted to ask who the bottle was taken to but I think I'd rather find it out naturally as I keep reading.
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Jan 23, 2015 00:35
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acumen posted:I'm at Toll the Hounds and between being not interested in the Tiste and all of the voice-wankery I've started just skimming pages and catching up by reading the re-read summaries. The Tiste actually only becomes interesting and  in TCG, so keep in there. Rereading TtH was pretty interesting once one have finished the series and read FoD.
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Jan 23, 2015 08:23
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Race: Tiste Andii Racial passive: Ennui +1 to Wisdom -1 to Charisma
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Jan 23, 2015 12:48
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I bought Willful Child yesterday after work and really enjoyed reading it - there are so many great sci fi references, fast action and clever dialogue throughout the book. I'd love to see more stories filled with more insane hijinks 
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Jan 23, 2015 21:37
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Baudin posted:Completely correct! Except iirc they take his body, too.
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Jan 24, 2015 01:43
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New reader here, up to the fourth chapter of Gardens of the Moon "The Assassins" so far. So I finally managed to say gently caress IT and just start reading Gardens after it living on my shelf forever, and feeling daunted by the series' size and required mental investment. I'm dangerposting in the thread, partially to find out if it's safe from spoilers (at least as much as can be) for new readers. I mean I'm not gonna like read the whole thread before I finish the books or anything dumb like that, but I would maybe like to chime in from time to time and ask questions/discuss and stuff, and I'm wondering if that is safe. My other purpose is to chime in with my thoughts so far. Right off the bat let's talk about the ballyhoo about it being confusing. The other related gripe commonly stated is that Garden's writing is poor in comparison to the others, likely a result of it being written nearly 10 years prior the other novels -- obviously that can't affect my opinion at this point. So yeah, about the confusion -- it isn't as bad as I expected and isn't all-encompassing. For instance, I feel like I have a decent grasp on the goings on locally, or in the micro sense if you will. I get a good amount of what's going on in the here and now, peoples short term goals (and to a lesser extent recent history) and with whom they associate with. Just not other also important stuff like purpose, history, motivations, allegiances, etc. So while I'm lost in some manners, I don't feel so in every. Of course, surely there must be things I think I know right now that are actually inaccurate because the character telling me is misinformed/lying. But I still understand what Erikson wants me to get, so some points in clarity's favor there, huh? The reason for a lot of the lack of clarity mollifies the confusion for me, however -- since it is a result of characters talking to each other while expecting each other to be aware of basic knowledge about their world. They aren't going to explain known things to each other in cringy face palm inducing Sanderson-esque moments (sorry Brandon, like your books, love Stormlight, but it's nice to change things up sometimes). Some might think this a dumb gimmick, but for me it works, and makes not being spoonfed plot make sense and it ends up kind of intriguing and engrossing to my tastes. It's hefty, mysterious and has a feel to it that tickles my brain. It is certainly not for anyone, however. And of course your opinion on the matter is definitely not a definitive statement on your good or bad taste. But so far, for me, the story and world call to me like the spinning coin, unknowable the reason, unavoidable its call. The book resonates with me, and while I know next to nothing about it the story, the world of Malazan feels this mythical white elephant I can't help but gaze at and wonder about a lot. There is an indelible stamp it inflicted on my mind very soon after I started. It's has a voyeuristic nature to it, like it's a unintended, unwelcome, and unprepared for view this dark fantasy world. It groans and pulses with some unknown form of life I must discover. It is as if my brain was meant to be intrigued about and analyze and consume this story, like it was ready for it and cleared up some room and set up its bed. I'm seemingly gushing about it a ton (especially being so barely into it), but to be clear, this all doesn't necessarily mean it's automatically a GOOD (or bad) work (though it certainly helps with the enjoyment if it is good), it just means that it's so very confidently its own thing, in its difficult to articulate way, that it can't help but stand out. I don't get this hard to describe feeling with most sci-fi/fantasy books when I read them, even ones I really enjoy. It's rare. I felt a similar with the first 4 Dark Towers the first time through, Lord of the Rings, Dune, GRRM, 1984, and others I can't recall. With stories like these, It's as if the book's world has a very strong specific taste, or feel, or whatever sense you want, right off the bat. This mysterious, odd, intriguing, hazy, realized thing makes me impatient to find out more. It's sitting there, pulsing, in a cloud of gray black dots like a swarm of gnats in my peripheral vision. All of this makes what confusing nature it does posses amplify my excitement and interest, if anything. It's fun as heck not to know, and definitely a welcomed change of pace. I do have some negative issues with it though, as well. I mean, I like it a lot so far but the tale is like a bajillion pages long and I'm 300 in, so hell, I could start to hate it and give up on it at some point, who knows. So far with Gardens I'm mostly disappointed that the characters seem samey and 2d/paper-thin/whatever adjective. We jump around a lot, abandoning characters completely for a chapter (and whole books, I hear) or just jump around them in quick viginette like sections, so we don't get to settle down with anyone which hurts, but even when we do get some time with them they tend to not be very different from one another in feel and style (with a few exceptions. Kruppe I'm looking at you). The prose falters a good deal, I find sentences or passages that are needlessly difficult to parse. Combine his odd non-parsing style with abundant references to gods/people/events from 1 or 100,000 years ago and things can get dicey for a reader. I have to re read stuff over and over again sometimes because I just can't understand it, and it's not always stuff that is not meant to be understand at that moment. It could just be the way he describes a castles courtyard or whatever. Lastly, while I love the pre chapter poerty, epitaphs, and what have you, dammit if I'm not the absolutely worst helpless moron when it comes to reading and comprehending poetry. I swear, my mind is just not capable of reading poetry for some reason. The ironic thing is I like poetry, or at least want to, but it just stops me in my tracks while attempting to parse and understand, let alone analyze. So it's not really a fault of the book, like I said I think the poetry and stuff are super cool, especially with how they tie in, fill in gaps, or create even more poo poo to wonder about. It's just that it makes me sad that I'm stupid at poetry so I can't enjoy them as well as I'd like. Anyway that's a lot of words so I'll just stop I guess. I hope all that rambling makes at least as much sense as Gardens of the Moon does for the most challenged first time reader. Let me know about the thread re:spoilers. Look forward to digging deeper and chatting with you guys over the next, poo poo, probably at least 4 months -- longer maybe, since I will certainely read a Discworld at least between some or all the books, to decompress and what not. I have a feeling the juxtaposition of light hearted goofball Discworld and grimdark Malazan in my mind will prove to be hilarious. Damo fucked around with this message at 11:59 on Jan 24, 2015 |
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Jan 24, 2015 11:47
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The poetry can be safely ignored on the first read, I believe. It foreshadows and/or outright reveals plot points sometimes but it's almost always at a point where you have no idea what it's referring to anyway. On a reread it suddenly becomes a whole lot more interesting.
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Jan 24, 2015 12:28
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Most people in this thread are really good about spoiling things from all books. When they're not, at least you're reading a long complicated and eventful series so you'll probably have forgotten about spoilers by the time you get to where they become relevant. Glad to hear you're enjoying GOTM. My copy sat on my shelf too until I forced myself to power through it and then I was hooked too.
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Jan 24, 2015 18:55
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Man, Deadhouse Gates gets even more soul crushingly sad each time you read it.
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Jan 24, 2015 19:12
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mischief posted:Man, Deadhouse Gates gets even more soul crushingly sad each time you read it. Every book in the series.
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Jan 24, 2015 19:44
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anilEhilated posted:The poetry can be safely ignored on the first read, I believe. It foreshadows and/or outright reveals plot points sometimes but it's almost always at a point where you have no idea what it's referring to anyway. On a reread it suddenly becomes a whole lot more interesting. I'd advise the opposite - although the various excerpts typically make more sense or bear more relevance on reread, they provide interesting tidbits of both plot and history that, in most cases, you won't find elsewhere in the series, even if you don't completely understand the significance at that point in time. Don't mouseover this spoiler, but for everyone who's read at least most of the series, there's a moment that ranks as one of my favorite, and it's made entirely by those various excerpts:: when we sort of nonchalantly meet Fisher Kel Teth.
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Jan 24, 2015 19:51
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Habibi posted:Every book in the series. The whole series is hard on the heart but Deadhouse Gates has a special place for me. "Children are dying." is one of the most incredibly sad sentences ever written.
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Jan 24, 2015 21:53
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Try reading the poetry out loud. At least for me, poetry sounds better than it reads, if you take my meaning.
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Jan 24, 2015 23:54
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I'm rereading GotM for the first time since completing TCG and FoD, and I'm amazed by the sheer amount of information Erikson jammed into that book from the very first page. A lot of it is presented in clunky info-dumps, but the level of foreshadowing is pretty impressive. I smiled when I noticed that the first Bridgeburners poem in GotM is attributed to Felisin.
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Jan 24, 2015 23:56
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Damo posted:New reader here, up to the fourth chapter of Gardens of the Moon "The Assassins" so far. So I finally managed to say gently caress IT and just start reading Gardens after it living on my shelf forever, and feeling daunted by the series' size and required mental investment. I'm dangerposting in the thread, partially to find out if it's safe from spoilers (at least as much as can be) for new readers. I mean I'm not gonna like read the whole thread before I finish the books or anything dumb like that, but I would maybe like to chime in from time to time and ask questions/discuss and stuff, and I'm wondering if that is safe. What up fellow new reader. I've been reading this thread for a little while and everyone's been really cool about spoiling stuff, I haven't read a single thing I shouldn't have yet. Also don't read this vvv It was super clumsy how Rallick's antimagic powder was introduced but now I'm expecting him to turn into like a god. Paran meeting Whiskeyjack was also really cool. There's a few different plotlines I'm excited to see where they go now even if I'm wrong about where they're going. Theory: The Eel is a god. He/She is a mysterious overseer of events, knows tons and is using other people as tools
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Jan 25, 2015 00:11
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Juaguocio posted:
What ever happened to Felisin the younger? Was that wrapped up in the ICE books?
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Jan 25, 2015 00:13
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Ethiser posted:What ever happened to Felisin the younger? Was that wrapped up in the ICE books? Nope. Her last appearance is in BH, as I recall. I was wrong about that poem- it's "Call To Shadow" that's written by Felisin, which is even funnier.
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Jan 25, 2015 00:28
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Juaguocio posted:I'm rereading GotM for the first time since completing TCG and FoD, and I'm amazed by the sheer amount of information Erikson jammed into that book from the very first page. A lot of it is presented in clunky info-dumps, but the level of foreshadowing is pretty impressive. Yeah, rereading GotM after the whole series was finished was an interesting and rewarding experience. Probably Fall of Light means we have to reread the series one more time just to make sense out of it.
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Jan 25, 2015 22:09
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I'm so hyped for Fall of Light. I don't care how many months it takes to get finished either. FoD was a great setup book and now Erikson has a lot of dominoes to start knocking over.
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Jan 25, 2015 22:39
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Goddamnit, I'm nearly done with TCG, and this thread is making me want to start relistening to the entire series on audiobook during my drive to work, and reading FoD on the way home. Especially because I always skip the poetry/prose at the beginning unless it's like a sentence long. Unfortunately, Audible doesn't seem to have them all (up to Book 7? Then FoD thrown in there for good measure). Are they worth listening to, or am I better off just finishing FoD and rechugging through them in physical form? Audiobooks have been my reading method of choice for the past year since I do a poo poo ton of driving.
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Jan 26, 2015 03:53
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Yarrbossa posted:Goddamnit, I'm nearly done with TCG, and this thread is making me want to start relistening to the entire series on audiobook during my drive to work, and reading FoD on the way home. Especially because I always skip the poetry/prose at the beginning unless it's like a sentence long. I have been doing this, and what others have said is accurate - the reader for the first three books is great; whoever does the remainder is very pedestrian. But it's still good listening. I think I've caught some things listening that I never did reading - and this is like my fifth time through the series.
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Jan 26, 2015 04:03
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Habibi posted:...and this is like my fifth time through the series. 
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Jan 26, 2015 22:56
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